CadetMahoney
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Simple, it's not the "very first of it's kind".
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Simple, it's not the "very first of it's kind".
Lindeloff pretty much says as much in the commentary
CadetMahoney
Member
Something burst out of the engineer (2000 years ago) in Alien though. . . and something exploded from the corpses they found in Prometheus. . . perhaps he was saying the "Deacon" is the first of it's kind due to the way it was born. Best I got.
And why would Weyland bet the farm on the other moon?
I've had two operations in my stomach area. The pain is very severe and there is no way I could run around directly after the surgery, or if I did, I would pass out after acting like a hero! The film cannot in any way provide a reason as to why she is fit and able after that shit. The machine cuts her open, rips out a foreign body (which is also in her womb by the way!) and then staples her up and she is good to go, even after screaming throughout the entire procedure along the way!!?? Sorry. It may be 70-80 years in the future. But NO!
Watched this the other night and was confused about something. I'm sure this has been answered in this or the other thread but I didn't see it in my quick search.
Is the ship that crashes at the end of the movie the same one they enter in the first Alien? is it even the same planet? The space jockey they find in in the first Alien was sitting at the controls of the ship with his chest busted open but the only one alive dies in the escape pod at the end of Prometheus.
Is the ship that crashes at the end of the movie the same one they enter in the first Alien? is it even the same planet? The space jockey they find in in the first Alien was sitting at the controls of the ship with his chest busted open but the only one alive dies in the escape pod at the end of Prometheus.
1) No.
2) No.
But the story plays out as if it were originally envisioned that way but chopped out when they decided to make it "not an Alien prequel."
I'm in no way a huge follower of the Alien mythos, but I just watched this movie today and found it extremely weird that the main character (forgot her name) punches a few crew members as they are trying to sterilize her, runs into the auto-medic thingy to have the surgery done and then leaves the place. What's weird about this is that no one seems to give a shit that it happened, I mean seriously what the fuck? So you're just gonna leave a live alien right there and carry on as if nothing happened?
Also, no real explanation was given as to why the husband(boyfriend?) had to be killed. The android just decided to be a cunt and poison him.
Also, no real explanation was given as to why the husband(boyfriend?) had to be killed. The android just decided to be a cunt and poison him.
SJRB
Gold Member
Fair points which annoyed me too. There is this alien lifeform aborted from this girl's womb and everyone just shrugs and doesn't even mention it. They just leave an alien back in the ship no questions asked.
This "movie logic" breaks a movie for me personally, simply because it doesn't make any sense.
I just watched this movie and after that part I waited for every scene to be one where she TELLS SOMEBODY AN ALIEN WAS CUT OUT OF HER, but no. WTF. Nobody even asks her in the ship why she's walking around in her underwear and with blood all over her. And also why the hell did the robot poison holloway and how did he know what to poison him with, the alien technology he took, how did he learn how to use it. I thought it was all part of the plan but the old man never gave a damn.
The movie was nice to look at, decent, but that's it. How many great sci-fi movies are there anyway? Even just good ones? Not much. Maybe one day when computer technology advances so much that it's cheaper to make movies that cost hundreds of millions today we'll see talented people get their chance, who knows.
Just saw it, I liked the theme, graphics, sound design, pretty much everything but the basic of actually deliver what the premise was all about "WTF are the Space Jockeys" or in this case the Engineers, and basically was instead about a bunch of random shit out of nowhere by some people that appear they were lost.
It ends with a cliffhanger that makes as much sense as to what is like to go to the Predator home planet.
So of fucking course I want to see a sequel to know about that.
It ends with a cliffhanger that makes as much sense as to what is like to go to the Predator home planet.
So of fucking course I want to see a sequel to know about that.
David the robot poisoned the dude not knowing the outcome. He asked Holloway (?) if he would do ANYTHING to get the job done or so and Holloway said yes so he kinda figured (David) should do anything at all cost to get what had to be done. (Hope that makes sense)
He didnt give a rats ass what happened to Holloway because he isnt human/cant feel sorry. He didint know what the black stuff did nor was it "part of a plan".
What Lindelof had to say about that:
And yes, it's completely stupid. But what can you do? It's Lindelof. Those who watched Lost may remember the bear cage sex. Exact same deal.
It's funny in the extended Vickers-Weyland scene there is a moment where Vickers mentions that squid monster in the med pod room. So she at least acknowledges its existence
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I'm glad the documentary addresses what went on with the writing because it basically confirms that Lindlof thinks he is like a god among writers even though the only reason he got the gig was because Fox was too pussy to let it ride with a unknown writer.
Yea even the "big ideas" all stem from Spaihts' script. The Engineers were his idea. The big medpod scene was his idea. Actually it seemed far cooler and more terrifying
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Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Whatever is the chair in Alien is not the same thing that piloted the ship in Promethius. I've been reviewing the part where they find the dead space jockey. Ive been comparing it to the spacesuit the engineers used. There is definitely a difference. The one in Alien is skeletal remains. The head is definitely a skull. Not a helment.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
And yet Lindlof is rubbing one out to his Emmy while saying how he vibed off Ridley so much that they were basically "co-writers."
Retconned.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Part of my disappointment with the movie in the first place.
How can it be retconned when there are only two Alien movies? It seems this rule will be eternal.
Anton Sugar
Member
Didn't Ridley say he always envisioned it being a helmet/suit? I don't think you can really say it look skeletal--it's a Giger-designed decayed body.
Certainly not trying to defend Prometheus. I'm still a little upset they made the Engineers "small".
Finally got to see this one last night on DVD. I have to say I'm dissapointed.
The movie itself, if taken as a film with horror elements and scary rape tentacle gooey monster exploding things, wasn't that bad at all. I liked the second half of the movie better than the first for this reason.
But as a Sci-fi flick: holy crap, this is a steaming pile! The first half of the movie, which tries to construe itself as more deliberately slow and talky classic sci-fi just pissed me off to no end. I'm very biased against "ancient aliens creationism", so that made me hate the movie right out of the bat. I also hated all the characters almost immediately, specially the archeologists. There was a scene after the Holographic introduction by Weyland where the archeologists are preaching their alien creationism, and the biologist objected by saying "What's your evidence? Oh sure, let's just throw 3 centuries of Darwinism down the drain" (by the way, "The Origin of Species" was published in 1859. The movie takes place in 2090 or something. How's that 3 centuries?). And the female archeologist replies, with tearful puppy eyes "B-b-b-ecause I choose to believe!!! (Take that, science!)". And I immediately knew the biologist would be nothing but a strawman and that this movie wouldn't make any sense. I mean, what does the biologist do when they stumble into the corpse of the decapitated engineer? He runs away in fear back to the ship. They just found the first evidence of not only extraterrestrial life but of sapient extraterrestrial life and this guy is a biologist who has traveled thousands of lightyears for this very purpose and he cowers away. WTF.
I could go on and on and on, but it's all these little things that turn this movie into an absolute failure as Sci-Fi. Which would be fine. "Alien", which is a fantastic masterpiece of a flick, is actually not really Sci-Fi. It's a slasher flick dressed up in Sci-Fi clothes. And it works beautifully because it just uses the Nostromo as a setting to great effect, because it's dark, it's closed; it winds in every direction. And what little Sci-Fi is there is very subtle. We see the corpse of the Space Jockey; we see the remnants of their ship. But we know nothing about them. It's just so eerie and cold and foreign and thus really scary. What's the Xenomorph? We don't know, but also the movie tells us so little about stuff that we are free to come up with ideas. Prometheus on the other hand is just so heavy handed in its approach and trying to come off as deep and philosophical when it's actually so shallow and almost childish. It's just a mess. Such an awful, annoying script.
It annoys that a film that was so beautifully shot, that has such great images and amazing sense of scale is wasted with such retarded, sophomoric, 3rd rate narrative and thematic elements. And the movie could've worked so much better as a horror film if it hadn't tried to take itself so seriously. The scene with the girl using the surgery machine to tear the tentacle fetus out of her worm was awesome. We needed more stuff like that.
And now it turns out the Space Jockeys are just Albino Bodybuilders. Give me a fucking break.
The movie itself, if taken as a film with horror elements and scary rape tentacle gooey monster exploding things, wasn't that bad at all. I liked the second half of the movie better than the first for this reason.
But as a Sci-fi flick: holy crap, this is a steaming pile! The first half of the movie, which tries to construe itself as more deliberately slow and talky classic sci-fi just pissed me off to no end. I'm very biased against "ancient aliens creationism", so that made me hate the movie right out of the bat. I also hated all the characters almost immediately, specially the archeologists. There was a scene after the Holographic introduction by Weyland where the archeologists are preaching their alien creationism, and the biologist objected by saying "What's your evidence? Oh sure, let's just throw 3 centuries of Darwinism down the drain" (by the way, "The Origin of Species" was published in 1859. The movie takes place in 2090 or something. How's that 3 centuries?). And the female archeologist replies, with tearful puppy eyes "B-b-b-ecause I choose to believe!!! (Take that, science!)". And I immediately knew the biologist would be nothing but a strawman and that this movie wouldn't make any sense. I mean, what does the biologist do when they stumble into the corpse of the decapitated engineer? He runs away in fear back to the ship. They just found the first evidence of not only extraterrestrial life but of sapient extraterrestrial life and this guy is a biologist who has traveled thousands of lightyears for this very purpose and he cowers away. WTF.
I could go on and on and on, but it's all these little things that turn this movie into an absolute failure as Sci-Fi. Which would be fine. "Alien", which is a fantastic masterpiece of a flick, is actually not really Sci-Fi. It's a slasher flick dressed up in Sci-Fi clothes. And it works beautifully because it just uses the Nostromo as a setting to great effect, because it's dark, it's closed; it winds in every direction. And what little Sci-Fi is there is very subtle. We see the corpse of the Space Jockey; we see the remnants of their ship. But we know nothing about them. It's just so eerie and cold and foreign and thus really scary. What's the Xenomorph? We don't know, but also the movie tells us so little about stuff that we are free to come up with ideas. Prometheus on the other hand is just so heavy handed in its approach and trying to come off as deep and philosophical when it's actually so shallow and almost childish. It's just a mess. Such an awful, annoying script.
It annoys that a film that was so beautifully shot, that has such great images and amazing sense of scale is wasted with such retarded, sophomoric, 3rd rate narrative and thematic elements. And the movie could've worked so much better as a horror film if it hadn't tried to take itself so seriously. The scene with the girl using the surgery machine to tear the tentacle fetus out of her worm was awesome. We needed more stuff like that.
And now it turns out the Space Jockeys are just Albino Bodybuilders. Give me a fucking break.
It might be important to bear in mind that things in the Alien world aren't always straight organic or mechanical. The Xenomorph, for example, is described by Ridley and Giger as "biomechanical", and has the amazing ability to create silicon.
It could be that the Engineer tech is in part biomechanical. Thus a helmet and suit = skull and bones.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Wether or not Giger drew it that way it's not what was presented on the big screen. Dallas, captain of the Nostromo, even said it was petrified, and that it looked like it had grown out of the chair. The whole spacecraft on LV-426 seemed to be bio mechanical. A living ship. Even in the book, Alien, it's said it seemed that way. Like something out of Farscape.
I did see the primordial black ooz in Alien. When Kane touches the egg you see the ooz start to react.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I just watched the Blu-Ray and the deleted scenes / alternate scenes...
Scenes I liked and wish were kept in some form:
It was clear in some of those scenes though that the acting wasn't great... the scene where the biology guy and shitty geologist guy find the skin was so terribly acted that I can only assume they were intending to re-record the audio... I can see why a lot of it ended up on the cutting room floor, but I think the editing process did actually harm the movie.
I still want a sequel(s).
Scenes I liked and wish were kept in some form:
- The "Our first alien" scene should have been kept in imo. It makes the biology guy seem much less insanely brave later on, and aside from adding a further connection between the worms under the boots of the crew to the snake later on, its also a nice nod / foreshadowing to the Aliens that are later to come..
- When Janek visits Vickers in her quarters after she's had to kill Holloway. The story about his military experience with the science team, and scorching the site would have better forshadowed his talk and theory when he talks to Shaw, and it also helps round out Vickers seeing her physically shaken by what she's done... even if she claims to have burned her hand. I feel like this scene would have jived well with their earlier "are you a robot?" conversation... it's clear that she's not here.
- The alternate Shaw/Holloway sex scene, starting with an argument. It seemed more passionate / real to me than the one they actually used. Along with the deleted scene where Shaw makes the toast, Holloways despair / conflict is better depicted here. When he wakes the next day and sees the small thread of alien shit in his eye, I'd totally forgotten he'd spent the day before drinking and moping, I think they maybe should have kept a bit of this in there.
- The conversation with the Engineer makes his temper tantrum make MUCH more sense... the engineer asks why Weyland wants to live forever, Weyland points out that he created David, and puts himself on par with the engineers, says that he and the engineer are as Gods and that Gods don't die... he inspects David and uses his head to smash the blasphemous Weyland into the dust. The other guys shoot at him and he kills them too, it just makes more sense.. he's more reactive in the alternate scene, in the theatrical cut it just seems a bit proactively evil. I think there's then a bit of added value in that Weyland's final words too, implying there is nothing after death... Gods don't die, they can't because they're not there to begin with...
- I prefer Weta's CGI mutant geology guy in the hanger deck -- it looks closer to an alien, the distended head, horrible mouth, etc. The movements and jumping are more animal like too.... I think they should have went with that.
- I also liked the fight in the survival pod with the heavy axe-usage. The movie resolves itself in these intense scenes too quickly for my liking in the theatrical cut. What can I say, I love loose wires, flickering lights and humans in peril!
- I liked the alternate final conversation about "paradise", and Shaw's tweaked line of "maybe that's because I'm a human, and you're just a fucking robot". I suppose like the alternate sex scene, this just felt more real to me delivered this way.
It was clear in some of those scenes though that the acting wasn't great... the scene where the biology guy and shitty geologist guy find the skin was so terribly acted that I can only assume they were intending to re-record the audio... I can see why a lot of it ended up on the cutting room floor, but I think the editing process did actually harm the movie.
I still want a sequel(s).
What I liked about this version (compared to the theatrical) is that it shows how manipulative David is; in the opening he watches Shaw's dream and see's her father use paradise.
Agree with everything you posted. I want to make my own edit of the movie
Pretty neat. The Weyland TED Talk is even longer on the blu-ray.
http://vimeo.com/50383392
This site also has done an incredible job of digging up every piece of cut footage out there.
http://www.prometheusforum.net/disc...leted-and-alternate-scenes-from-prometheus/p1
The way this movie was re-cut in the editing room reminds me a bit of Alien 3.
Cool alternate title sequence this guy made --http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb2jvWQj39o
http://vimeo.com/50383392
This site also has done an incredible job of digging up every piece of cut footage out there.
http://www.prometheusforum.net/disc...leted-and-alternate-scenes-from-prometheus/p1
The way this movie was re-cut in the editing room reminds me a bit of Alien 3.
Cool alternate title sequence this guy made --http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb2jvWQj39o
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Just watched it. All the hate when it first came out made me not see it in theaters. What a huge mistake! Maybe my lowered expectations helped, but I thought it was wonderful. Can't wait for the next one. I'm sorry Ridley Scott.
Just watched it and this about sums up my thoughts as well.
I went in expecting xenomorphs and general alien lore. But all Scott did was screw up the space jockey theories. Outside of cashing in on the franchise, there didn't even seem much of a point in linking the movies.
But the ending was the worst. "Now we're gonna go find these guys and get answers. Goodbye, audience!" That is where the movie should've fucking started!
I agree with all of that, those scenes should have been left in the movie. The only scene that I thought could have used more polish was the Fiefield mutant scene. I thought the movements weren't that smooth and could have used more polish, but maybe they stopped production on those before they were completed. I did like the look of the mutated Fiefield better.
In watching the making of, it appears that Scott had his hand on everything in the movie from the story to minute details. I know Lindelof has a ton of haters, but ultimately Scott approved everything and most likely influenced almost everything in the movie. I do wonder what Spaihts version would have looked like if they'd stayed with that.
What's even crazier is that the squid monster is in VICKERS' private quarters and Vickers never even sees it or mentions anything about it. She actually DOES at least mention it in the deleted scene with her and Weyland but of course this scene was shortened for the final cut.
Honestly I have to wonder if you really watched the movie. She was hardly "good to go." She was constantly staggering around and kept injecting herself. She could barely zip up her suit for crying out loud.
Yes she was able to run around when a giant god being was trying to smash her brains in or when an enormous spaceship was rolling her way, but I have no problems imagining her adrenaline and survival instincts kicking in and her being able to do that.
The Spaihts version of the cesarean scene sounded easier to swallow. In that version, a traditional alien is surgically removed from Shaw, she ejects it and stays sealed in the pod for many hours. As she sits protected in the pod, she watches the alien slowly grow and grow .. finally growing into adulthood and watches as it wrecks havoc on the crew. Sounded awesome.
SniperHunter
Banned
The movie totally sucked, I just saw it the other day. The red head British chick aside, it had nothing going for it.
Also why in the fuck would an intelligent alien (the engineer), start attacking and killing humans after waking up from cryo sleep? The movie makes no fucking sense!! They obviously had a sequel in mind, the entire movie felt like a big cliffhanger.
Also why in the fuck would an intelligent alien (the engineer), start attacking and killing humans after waking up from cryo sleep? The movie makes no fucking sense!! They obviously had a sequel in mind, the entire movie felt like a big cliffhanger.
Seriously? Do people not pay attention in movies anymore? The last third or so of the film it's spelled out that the engineers were going to wipe out the entire human species. So why would you not understand that the engineer would kill them especially after them coming to him with such an arrogant premise as wanting to live forever?
Again, I think there are some seriously flaws with the film. Specifically the two scientist who got lost. But some of these complaints don't make sense to me and make me fell like people "watched" the movie while surfing the web or chatting it up with their buddies or something.
That sounds awesome, but it seems like development changed from this being an Alien prequel to being something else entirely after Spaihts left. Scott got in his mind that he wanted to explore the beginnings of humanity in some way, so that seems to be where the direction went. Thus the engineers and all that.
I wonder how much more sense the movie would have made if instead of the black goo containers, that those were instead the facehugger pods. Then you have the engineers on the ship being taken over by xenos, but they were unable to take their ship to Earth to wipe out their creation.
i believe spaights script ended with the alien bursting from the engineer and the ship crashing on lv 426.
the shaw/holloway sex scene ended with an alien bursting out of holloway in the middle of them having sex!
All of this would have made a lot more sense. I think Scott just had this creation idea in his head that he kept changing things on. Mixing that with Lindelof is what you end up with.
Very interested to see what the next writer does with what they put in motion in Prometheus.
they also say in the doc that the studio pushed the engineer angle as well and wanted the movie to have little to do with Alien. They wanted a new franchise. The Engineers were in Spaihts draft. Lindeloff just changed around some of the characters, replaced alien eggs w/ black goo and pushed the science/faith "origins" of man themes. Oh and ratcheted up the ambiguity.
in spaihts draft, shaw/holloway also visit weyland at his home on mars (there is extensive pre-production art on this) and make this very elaborate pitch for why their findings should be explored further. it wasn't just a short presentation to the crew on the actual ship. spaihts explains all this in the commentary.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Here's the thing... Ridley Scott did state on a number of occassions that Prometheus was a movie set in that universe and not specifically one about the xenomorph aliens. It is his "lore" to link so it's entirely up to him how tenuous that link is.
I always liked the idea of the Xenomorphs as being a weapon designed to wipe out all life on a planet. The inconsistency in how the black goo operates is one of the things that bothers me.
It definitely is his franchise to do with what he wants, and what he did is nothing near what Lucas did to Star Wars. I don't want to go down a tangent, but even though I wish he'd gone with more of an Alien prequel like we all originally thought we were getting, I don't hate Prometheus. Prometheus is flawed, to me, but I still enjoy it quite a bit. I'm interested in seeing where it goes in sequels.
Agreed. I think the scene that would have benefited most from being included in the final cut was the engineer being awoken from cryostasis and having a conversation with David/Weyland. Added a lot more context as to why he did what he did, rather than just making him seem like he was an angry bear coming out of hibernation.
Also, the scene with Shaw fighting him seemed like a no-brainer to include. To me, it seemed to have callbacks to the Alien fight with Ridley.
Not that merely mentioning it would help all that much anyway...
I don't think you can compare Scott to Alien(s) like Lucas to Star Wars. I wouldn't consider it his franchise. I'd say even Cameron had a bigger influence.
Thinking more about it, I could've lived with it having little connection to the series if the movie wasn't just so glaringly dumb. At this point, I'd consider AvP a better script at least.
Thinking more about it, I could've lived with it having little connection to the series if the movie wasn't just so glaringly dumb. At this point, I'd consider AvP a better script at least.
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