Support NeoGAF

[rakka]

PV + Energy Sword / Shotgun + Speed Boost from ordnance is pretty much a guaranteed killing frenzy. quite often within a single minute thanks to instant respawn. or receiving damage boost when you have a SAW.

Used to have to earn my frenzies and riots, felt awesome. now it's like big deal, who gives a shit. i was just lucky enough that i got a sword or shotty instead of needler and sprinted like a madman with mobility around the map lookin through walls and shooting / slicing people in the face.

 

[Syphon Filter]

How does making more money mean decline? Seriously? It is really not that difficult to understand. That was the point I was making.

You put day 1 and it sold more day 1 since it has 5 years worth of extra installed base. In a month Halo 4 sold less than what Halo 3 did[Halo 3 only had about 6 days to work with]. This means Halo 3 made more and sold more than Halo 4 did.

 

[TheOddOne]

You put day 1 and it sold more day 1 since it has 5 years worth of extra installed base. In a month Halo 4 sold less than what Halo 3 did[Halo 3 only had about 6 days to work with]. This means Halo 3 made more and sold more than Halo 4 did.

That doesn't make any sense at all, can somebody explain what he trying to say because I really don't see where he is going. That seems like a huge spin if I ever heard one. How are you comparing 6 days sales to one days is utterly baffeling.

 

[Hydranockz]

So I landed safe and sound last night. It's 1pm but really it's 7pm. My life is upside down.

Wait, why was EazyB banned? Hope it isn't a perma.

 

[JB1981]

I've seen this a lot. Can someone elaborate why Reach was terrible from a casual perspective? I ask that because hardcore doesn't matter ( ).

But seriously, I only played it casually and enjoyed it, but why was it "bad"? Whereas I play Halo 4 now and just leave irritated.

(And I totally blame starting loadouts for this).

Reach was not nearly as bad as Halo Gaf claims

 

[JHall]

Another thing that even bothers me more than saying it feels like Halo, was the fact they touted the ability to recreate classic modes.

That option not only doesn't exist within the actual gametypes found in Halo 4 (no assault, no one flag, no territories), but there exists major technical bugs within the custom options themselves that disallow players to even change things like instant respawn or griffball arm time or waypoints over the flag carriers.

Couple this with no online file browser and you really cripple the Halo experience most have come to expect since Halo 3. Even more so, the custom options in Halo 2 for custom gametypes seem more robust at this point, not in terms of weapon placement using forge or things of that natural, but being able to create one sided gametypes with specific spawn times, weapon starts, and objective arm times and waypoints.

I agree with all of this. This game really needed a beta and probably another year worth of development. It just feels rushed in my opinion.

 

[Syphon Filter]

That doesn't make any sense at all, can somebody explain what he trying to say because I really don't see where he is going. That seems like a huge spin if I ever heard one. How are you comparing 6 days sales to one days is utterly baffeling.

I already said that on day 1 Halo 4 sold more due to having 5 years worth of extra installed base to work with compared to Halo 3. We now have 1 month of sales of Halo 4 and it turns out it sold less than Halo 3 in a month despite coming out Nov 6 and Halo 3 released Sept 25.

 

[Merguson]

So I landed safe and sound last night. It's 1pm but really it's 7pm. My life is upside down.

Wait, why was EazyB banned? Hope it isn't a perma.

He's been perma-banned for a long time..

 

[Tawpgun]

*sigh*

I can't believe we're actually talking about this shit...

Damn depressing.

 

[FyreWulff]

Wasn't Microsoft gonna buy Activision earlier this year? They shoulda just done that, so Halo could be Halo and Dooty could be Dooty. This thread would have been a lot more pleasant.

Who am I kidding, they would have fucked it up anyway.

Microsoft would lose money by removing all the other platform sales.

 

[Arnie]

So I landed safe and sound last night. It's 1pm but really it's 7pm. My life is upside down.

Wait, why was EazyB banned? Hope it isn't a perma.

Don't really understand your post, but god how I'd love to have Eazy's input here.

 

[The Lamonster]

As requested, I'll explain exactly why I enjoy the more controversial aspects of Halo 4.

I like loadouts because it lets me choose the best weapons and perks for whatever gametype and map I'm playing on. It adds strategic elements to the game and sometimes my choices are better than my enemies' choices and it can give me an advantage. It's nice to have an edge using my brain in addition to my twitch skills on the thumbsticks. I play RTS and RPG games as well so maybe that's why I enjoy these extra customizable options.

I like ordinance because its another opportunity to make a choice that may give me another edge over the competition. I also got tired of camping the power weapon spawn points and watching the match timer in previous Halo games instead of simply moving around the map blasting fools. And I prefer random ordinance over fixed ordinance because it adds an unpredictable element and variety to the gameplay. A skilled Halo player should know how to use every weapon in the game so I don't agree with the complaints about it being randomized.

Misc: I think the game needs more small maps. I think instant respawn is great in Slayer but retarded in objective gametypes. I think there are some balance issues, specifically the DMR having too great a range and the Railgun needing a buff, whether its one more round per clip or a bigger more powerful blast radius. I think Halo 4 should have included all custom game options from Reach and all helmets from past games. Kill cams are awesome. UI basically sucks. Graphics and sound are awesome. Story I've never given a shit about.

Oh and the sword and pistol are perfect. Finally.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Reach was not nearly as bad as Halo Gaf claims

Reach and Halo 4 are both good games.

Whether they are the types of games you want to play, and whether you think they are as good as previous entries, and whether you think all Halo games were or should be great,
is where it gets far more sticky.

 

[TheOddOne]

I already said that on day 1 Halo 4 sold more due to having 5 years worth of extra installed base to work with compared to Halo 3. We now have 1 month of sales of Halo 4 and it turns out it sold less than Halo 3 in a month despite coming out Nov 6 and Halo 3 released Sept 25.

6 days is not a month, NPD was tracked the month after release so in December. The gave that info a month later too: 3.3 million in the US. Halo 4 sold 3.2 million in the US in month.

<100k decline, but more profit out the gate is hardly a bad thing. But whatever, you'll prolly "spin" this all or avoid my point again.

 

[JHall]

I just had a conversation with my brother-in-law. Now he's as casual as it gets for a gamer. He barely gets 5 kills in a game of TDM in CoD.

I brought Halo 4 over for him to play and he didn't like it one bit. He said he liked Halo when everyone started with the same weapon and had to find better weapons on the map.

 

[Captain Blood]

maybe we can get some more salt shaker pictures

This and posting pictures of crying babies I found super bizarre. Is a creative director openly mocking the fanbase of his game a common place thing? Is it supposed to increase moral within the studio or something? I just don't get it.

Don't really understand your post, but god how I'd love to have Eazy's input here.

There aren't enough dictator pictures on the internet to express Eazy's feelings of the game I don't think hahah.

 

[Syphon Filter]

6 days is not a month, NPD was tracked the month after release so in December. The gave that info a month later too: 3.3 million in the US. Halo 4 sold 3.2 million in the US in month.

<100k decline, but more profit out the gate is hardly a bad thing. But whatever, you'll prolly "spin" this all or avoid my point again.

It's not bad but they were looking to get out of the decline. I know 6 days is not a month,the npd only tracked those days for the month of sept so the 3.3 were the result. How is more profit out of the gate better than long term profit?

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Microsoft would lose money by removing all the other platform sales.

If the sale happened it could of went to ways.


Scenario 1

Microsoft make CoD Xbox exclusive and hire the respawn entertainment to handle the multiplayer part of the franchise. The franchise gets turned it to a Multiplayer only title distributed digitally and physically with a constant stream of updates in the form of "expansions" paid and free. Maps, Weapons, "Era's" ect

Its basically a Xbox exclusive CoD MMO (monthly fee of like £5 or you can upgrade to XBL Platinum for £50/£60 a year and play it when ever)

This does two things. It "breaks" CoD but gives Microsoft money. It allows Microsoft to remain successful when launching other titles like Halo because the only competition then is an "old" CoD game and the sony/nintendo exclusives.

Scenario 2(the more likely)

Microsoft let CoD operate exactly like it does now turning over a hefty sum each year but gimps the PS3/PC versions of the game pushing people towards the xbox platform.

Exclusive Content
More Robust online (theatre ect)
Elite only on Xbox
ect

Its a shame MS didn't buy them it could of created a lot of profit and stopped/Slowed the CoD train.

 

[Plywood]

As requested, I'll explain exactly why I enjoy the more controversial aspects of Halo 4.

I like loadouts because it lets me choose the best weapons and perks for whatever gametype and map I'm playing on. It adds strategic elements to the game and 1. sometimes my choices are better than my enemies' choices and it can give me an advantage. 2. It's nice to have an edge using my brain in addition to my twitch skills on the thumbsticks. I play RTS and RPG games as well so maybe that's why I enjoy these extra customizable options.

3. I like ordinance because its another opportunity to make a choice that may give me another edge over the competition. I also got tired of camping the power weapon spawn points and 4. watching the match timer in previous Halo games instead of simply moving around the map blasting fools. And I prefer 5. random ordinance over fixed ordinance because it adds an unpredictable element and variety to the gameplay. 6. A skilled Halo player should know how to use every weapon in the game so I don't agree with the complaints about it being randomized.

1. I like random crapshoots because on occasion I've chosen better
2. I don't understand Halo and think every iteration is a twitch shooter
3. I like powerups
4. I hate strategy in FPS games
5. Fiesta is the bestah
6. Every weapon is balanced in Halo 4 and personal ordnance is fair

 

[TheOddOne]

It's not bad but they were looking to get out of the decline. I know 6 days is not a month,the npd only tracked those days for the month of sept so the 3.3 were the result. How is more profit out of the gate better than long term profit?

I hate this. I made my point clear, the discussion is avoided and brushed aside. Then I’m baited into another one. I’m going to stop now, because I rather go into a debate that has no merit of any facts and will mostly be pure speculation.

 

[Bizazedo]

I just had a conversation with my brother-in-law. Now he's as casual as it gets for a gamer. He barely gets 5 kills in a game of TDM in CoD.

I brought Halo 4 over for him to play and he didn't like it one bit. He said he liked Halo when everyone started with the same weapon and had to find better weapons on the map.

That's kind of always where I've been. Halo was always my fix-it for the olden days of Quake, being able to take more than one hit unless it was a power weapon, and map control.

While I appreciate loadout strategy concepts, if I wanted that I'd do it with a game that was designed for it from the ground up.

 

[IHaveIce]

As requested, I'll explain exactly why I enjoy the more controversial aspects of Halo 4.

I like loadouts because it lets me choose the best weapons and perks for whatever gametype and map I'm playing on. It adds strategic elements to the game and sometimes my choices are better than my enemies' choices and it can give me an advantage. It's nice to have an edge using my brain in addition to my twitch skills on the thumbsticks. I play RTS and RPG games as well so maybe that's why I enjoy these extra customizable options.

I like ordinance because its another opportunity to make a choice that may give me another edge over the competition. I also got tired of camping the power weapon spawn points and watching the match timer in previous Halo games instead of simply moving around the map blasting fools. And I prefer random ordinance over fixed ordinance because it adds an unpredictable element and variety to the gameplay. A skilled Halo player should know how to use every weapon in the game so I don't agree with the complaints about it being randomized.

Misc: I think the game needs more small maps. I think instant respawn is great in Slayer but retarded in objective gametypes. I think there are some balance issues, specifically the DMR having too great a range and the Railgun needing a buff, whether its one more round per clip or a bigger more powerful blast radius. I think Halo 4 should have included all custom game options from Reach and all helmets from past games. Kill cams are awesome. UI basically sucks. Graphics and sound are awesome. Story I've never given a shit about.

Oh and the sword and pistol are perfect. Finally.

I can't fathom how someone that keeps saying how he liked Halo 3 describes these things as good additions to a Halo game.

 

[Arnie]

As requested, I'll explain exactly why I enjoy the more controversial aspects of Halo 4.

I like loadouts because it lets me choose the best weapons and perks for whatever gametype and map I'm playing on. It adds strategic elements to the game and sometimes my choices are better than my enemies' choices and it can give me an advantage. It's nice to have an edge using my brain in addition to my twitch skills on the thumbsticks. I play RTS and RPG games as well so maybe that's why I enjoy these extra customizable options.

I like ordinance because its another opportunity to make a choice that may give me another edge over the competition. I also got tired of camping the power weapon spawn points and watching the match timer in previous Halo games instead of simply moving around the map blasting fools. And I prefer random ordinance over fixed ordinance because it adds an unpredictable element and variety to the gameplay. A skilled Halo player should know how to use every weapon in the game so I don't agree with the complaints about it being randomized.

Thanks for this, interesting counter argument to the overwhelming majority here.

I can't argue with any of your points, and I guess it's just a difference in expectation of what a Halo game should be, and why we enjoy it. I personally find the balance, the consistency, and the reliable nature of fixed weapon spawns to be part of this joy. Similarly I like base player parity so that I can rely solely on my knowledge of the mechanics, not guesswork on what the enemy are doing to succeed.

I dislike rock, paper, scissors in a game like Halo. In a game like Battlefield, when it's infantry versus vehicles, I think that form of balance works well.

There aren't enough dictator pictures on the internet to express Eazy's feelings of the game I don't think hahah.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I have to agree. Sword and Pistol feel like they are balanced now.

 

[FyreWulff]

If the sale happened it could of went to ways.

-snip-

It's also putting their eggs into one basket. FPSes aren't going to be the top dog forever. Barely any of them actually make money.

People give too much much credit to MS. How much money did they blow on Rare then completely fail to use their IP effectively?

Seriously. They bought fuckin' Rare and lost money on that deal. They couldn't even swallow their pride and still make money by letting Rare continue to make their E rated games for Nintendo platforms.

 

[Syphon Filter]

It's also putting their eggs into one basket. FPSes aren't going to be the top dog forever. Barely any of them actually make money.

People give too much much credit to MS. How much money did they blow on Rare then completely fail to use their IP effectively?

Seriously. They bought fuckin' Rare and lost money on that deal.

What genre do you see overtaking FPS?

 

[TheOddOne]

It's also putting their eggs into one basket. FPSes aren't going to be the top dog forever. Barely any of them actually make money.

People forget that Activision makes tons of money on merchandising and licensed games. Why? Because they port them on every platform. If Microsoft did buy them, they lost about 90% of the profit the moment they bought them.

 

[The Antitype]

Reach was not nearly as bad as Halo Gaf claims

This. Reach was still Halo, it just borrowed elements from Shadowrun to explore to opportunities for gameplay depth and individual play-style.

It wasn't a perfect meshing. Bloom wasn't as perfectly tuned in Reach as it had been in Shadowrun. The armor abilities, while very much in the non-offensive, complimentary vein as the powers in Shadowrun, also weren't as well balanced.

But it still felt more like Halo than Halo 4 does. Halo 4 is COD Lite, so people are figuring 'Fuck it, I'll just go play the real thing and not the wannabe'. Reach also had TONS more content than Halo 4 does, plus all the Bungie.net integration and file sharing that is still missing from Halo 4.

It was a better product to more people, and the population numbers demonstrate that.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

People give too much much credit to MS. How much money did they blow on Rare then completely fail to use their IP effectively?

Seriously. They bought fuckin' Rare and lost money on that deal. They couldn't even swallow their pride and still make money by letting Rare continue to make their E rated games for Nintendo platforms.

 

[Karl2177]

This and posting pictures of crying babies I found super bizarre. Is a creative director openly mocking the fanbase of his game a common place thing? Is it supposed to increase moral within the studio or something? I just don't get it.

DURING CRUNCH

 

[The Lamonster]

I can't fathom how someone that keeps saying how he liked Halo 3 describes these things as good additions to a Halo game.

They are different games. Do you really want to pay $60 for the same game year after year?

And thanks for the quality reply Arnie. Plywood's kind of a dick.

And did someone from 343 really come here and post pictures of salt and crying babies? Shit is low class if true.

 

[TheOddOne]

And did someone from 343 really come here and post pictures of salt and crying babies? Shit is low class if true.

Nah, it was via twitter. Just as stuff went beserk here, there were pictures being posted.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

What genre do you see overtaking FPS?

I think FPSMMO's are the next step then after that its going to be about games that deliver worlds something like Skyrim but bigger and more developed.

Thats how i see the industry going.

Not saying it wont remain in a first person view but I can see it more option First or Third Person. Maybe some added building and RTS system. I think days are numbed for a traditional Level based FPS like Halo or CoD

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

They are different games. Do you really want to pay $60 for the same game year after year?

And thanks for the quality reply Arnie. Plywood's kind of a dick.

And did someone from 343 really come here and post pictures of salt and crying babies? Shit is low class if true.

I would seriously not mind paying $60 every year for a constantly updated (with new maps, weapons, etc. ala CoD) Halo 1 or Halo 2.

Oh god no. We don't need Halo turning even more into CoD or Madden.

I would've said this when Reach was out, but after Halo 4's handling... A lot of people are hoping that TU brings a new game lol

 

[The Antitype]

I would seriously not mind paying $60 every year for a constantly updated (with new maps, weapons, etc. ala CoD) Halo 1 or Halo 2.

Oh god no. We don't need Halo turning even more into CoD or Madden.

 

[FyreWulff]

What genre do you see overtaking FPS?

I have no idea, really. As an example, previous eras would have been stuff like the Character Based Platformer where everybody and their dog were making 3D character platformers after Super Mario 64 and Crash took off. There's also the issue that barely any FPS actually makes money. Everyone is essentially fighting for the table scraps left over from Call of Duty and Halo.

When the next wave of consoles gets going in full swing, everyone starts over and we get to see what shakes out. Betting the farm on FPS only won't work forever.

I hate to make Barrow drink this early in the day, but for example: Microsoft already has another FPS IP in Perfect Dark. They could have easily alternated new Perfect Darks with Halo. Rare and Bungie alternating releases, giving Bungie time to work on other IP. What do they do now? They spent 375 million for a studio that models avatar clothing and IPs they don't use.

 

[TheOddOne]

I think FPSMMO's are the next step then after that its going to be about games that deliver worlds something like Skyrim but bigger and more developed.

Thats how i see the industry going.

Not saying it wont remain in a first person view but I can see it more option First or Third Person. Maybe some added building and RTS system. I think days are numbed for a traditional Level based FPS like Halo or CoD

Mixed with "games as services" then I can see the industry going this route.

 

[Tunavi]

This and posting pictures of crying babies I found super bizarre. Is a creative director openly mocking the fanbase of his game a common place thing? Is it supposed to increase moral within the studio or something? I just don't get it.

343 is turning out to be a very unprofessional developer.

 

[Arnie]

They are different games. Do you really want to pay $60 for the same game year after year? .

I think that's a really interesting argument that probably dictates a lot of why people are reacting the way they are. I think there's a balance between the window between releases and the amount fans expect to see changed, for the sake of changing.

I personally haven't experience a classic Halo experience since Halo 3, and so I'd take an evolution of that, with new features on par with the likes of Forge, or Firefight, and a new staple of maps, and I'd pay full price for it.

After Reach, I wasn't thinking that I'd grown tired of the classic Halo experience, in fact more the opposite, I was clamouring for it.

 

[Overdoziz]

'Variety' isn't a synonym for 'better'.

 

[Dirtbag]

They are different games. Do you really want to pay $60 for the same game year after year?

Then why make your game just like the others.
Halo was the only game doing what it does best. No other game fills that spot like halo did.

 

[JHall]

They are different games. Do you really want to pay $60 for the same game year after year?

And thanks for the quality reply Arnie. Plywood's kind of a dick.

And did someone from 343 really come here and post pictures of salt and crying babies? Shit is low class if true.

If it's a true Halo game. Yes.

 

[IHaveIce]

They are different games. Do you really want to pay $60 for the same game year after year?

And thanks for the quality reply Arnie. Plywood's kind of a dick.

And did someone from 343 really come here and post pictures of salt and crying babies? Shit is low class if true.

No I dont want the same, but like you said they are entirely different in the core for me.

I don't want to call you out or something, your arguments were valid and if you really like it that way it is okay, but I can't see how someone wanted this change in direction for Halo.

I agree with Arnie in this regard.

But seriously, I would pay 60$ for a fixed base gameplay of Halo 2, with new graphics, new maps (hell maybe even the old ones) and stuff.

I'm not against new stuff, but you have to do this stuff right and look if it fits in with Halo's gameplay and the gameplay you try to bring with the new game. Many of the new stuff doesn't do this.
I wouldn't even have a problem with Armor Abilities, if we weren't able to spawn with them.
I just want that everyone is on equal grounds at start.


OT but I just bought all Walking Dead episodes, I hope GAF is right and it is so damn good

 

[Voltron64]

DURING CRUNCH

Wow. lol.

 

[heckfu]

It's also putting their eggs into one basket. FPSes aren't going to be the top dog forever. Barely any of them actually make money.

People give too much much credit to MS. How much money did they blow on Rare then completely fail to use their IP effectively?

Seriously. They bought fuckin' Rare and lost money on that deal. They couldn't even swallow their pride and still make money by letting Rare continue to make their E rated games for Nintendo platforms.

I have no idea, really. As an example, previous eras would have been stuff like the Character Based Platformer where everybody and their dog were making 3D character platformers after Super Mario 64 and Crash took off. There's also the issue that barely any FPS actually makes money. Everyone is essentially fighting for the table scraps left over from Call of Duty and Halo.

When the next wave of consoles gets going in full swing, everyone starts over and we get to see what shakes out. Betting the farm on FPS only won't work forever.

I hate to make Barrow drink this early in the day, but for example: Microsoft already has another FPS IP in Perfect Dark. They could have easily alternated new Perfect Darks with Halo. Rare and Bungie alternating releases, giving Bungie time to work on other IP. What do they do now? They spent 375 million for a studio that models avatar clothing and IPs they don't use.

The first post was too thinly veiled, TWO DRINKS FOR PERFECT DARK!

 

[Plywood]

Plywood's kind of a dick.

You like the random elements in Halo 4, that's cool. But it's not balanced and the rhythm of Halo gets lost in translation.

 

[JHall]

The first post was too thinly veiled, TWO DRINKS FOR PERFECT DARK!

Perfect Dark and Golden Eye.

sogood.gif

 

[TheOddOne]

You like the random elements in Halo 4, that's cool. But it's not balanced and the rhythm of Halo gets lost in translation.

Wise words.

 

[Tunavi]

You like the random elements in Halo 4, that's cool. But it's not balanced and the rhythm of Halo gets lost in translation.

AND PLYWOOD'S THE BEST!

 

[The Antitype]

I think that's a really interesting argument that probably dictates a lot of why people are reacting the way they are. I think there's a balance between the window between releases and the amount fans expect to see changed, for the sake of changing.

I personally haven't experience a classic Halo experience since Halo 3, and so I'd take an evolution of that, with new features on par with the likes of Forge, or Firefight, and a new staple of maps, and I'd pay full price for it.

After Reach, I wasn't thinking that I'd grown tired of the classic Halo experience, in fact more the opposite, I was clamouring for it.

See, in my mind, from a philosophical standpoint, Reach was exactly the right idea. It wasn't an overhaul of the core Halo experience, it just introduced some new complimentary systems.

The execution wasn't perfect - Bloom did make for an incredibly balanced sandbox, but some fire-fights felt messy as a result, and armor abilities did open up new playstyles and tactics, but they weren't as flawlessly balanced as the Shadowrum abilities.

But what they were shooting for - an evolution of Halo that still respected the core tenets of the gameplay, was right on. Plus, they gave you such an amazing package with 4-player co-op, Firefight, all the bungie.net integration and file sharing working PERFECTLY, etc.

Halo 4 was a poorly thought-out overhaul that was clearly inspired by penis-envy of COD's popularity.