Support NeoGAF

[Shayan]

They are ahead in Europe, as a matter of fact.

SONY is way ahead in PAL region , but behind in UK

in some PAL regions , ps3 seems like the only console that sells

you have these random posts once in a while pretending as if they dont know whats going on in europe.

By looking at the euro charts, its very obvious that PS3 is far ahead in terms of sales in PAL region

 

[onQ123]

How familiar are you guys with how GDDR5 or memory in general works? Memory does not require the same levels of cooling as a GPU or CPU and draws very little power. At most it would require a little more space on the motherboard (probably not enough to impact case design) and a little more wattage to power it. The system will probably draw less power than what the PS3 drew at launch as is. And as someone already demonstrated, the cost of GDDR5 is pretty low, and that was a year ago.

I'm not going to get my hopes up, but 8 GBs of GDDR5 is not a "pipe dream" as many have said. It's entirely possible.

not even that they could just make the interposer bigger & fit more ram chips on it.

 

[kairu]

Them GBs! 8 GB ram would be awesome.

 

[Afrikan]

edit- read with caution of me speaking out of my arse.

Ok everyone just stop for a sec and breathe.... um.. if it were 8 f'n GBs of GDDR5 Ram....I mean that would be what 172GFlops (?) + another 192 GFlops or whatever its called for a total of 364 Gflops??? compared to Durango's 100 something Giggaflops?

I don't know if that's how the tech aspect of it comparison wise works..but I don't know fellas, it would seem unnecessary on Sony's end from a business standpoint to be that far ahead of a competitor who is launching during the same time period.

 

[stryke]

Ok everyone just stop for a sec and breathe.... um.. if it were 8 f'n GBs of GDDR5 Ram....I mean that would be what 172GFlops (?) + another 192 GFlops or whatever its called for a total of 364 Gflops??? compared to Durango's 100 something Giggaflops?

I'm no expert but I don't think you refer to RAM bandwidth in flops, it's GB/s. Flops is for GPU or CPU. Adding more of the same RAM doesn't change the bandwidth.

 

[Shayan]

Ok everyone just stop for a sec and breathe.... um.. if it were 8 f'n GBs of GDDR5 Ram....I mean that would be what 172GFlops (?) + another 192 GFlops or whatever its called for a total of 364 Gflops??? compared to Durango's 100 something Giggaflops?

I don't know if that's how the tech aspect of it comparison wise works..but I don't know fellas, it would seem unnecessary on Sony's end from a business standpoint to be that far ahead of a competitor who is launching during the same time period.

You never know how gaming would advance in the next 5 years. 8 gig RAM would be a great decision as it would keep PS4 relevant for years

SONY is promoting 4k heavily and 8 gig RAM will certainly ensure atleast a few of ps4 games sport that rez

 

[Afrikan]

I'm no expert but I don't think you refer to RAM bandwidth in flops. Adding more of the same RAM doesn't change the bandwidth.

sorry just drinking and reading GAf before stepping out...thanks for the correction... but doesn't adding that much fast RAM make MUCH more of a difference to the point it wouldn't worth it Business wise when you are launching during the same time period?'

I mean who is Sony really trying to compete with here?

 

[Chuck Norris]

Ok everyone just stop for a sec and breathe.... um.. if it were 8 f'n GBs of GDDR5 Ram....I mean that would be what 172GFlops (?) + another 192 GFlops or whatever its called for a total of 364 Gflops??? compared to Durango's 100 something Giggaflops?

I don't know if that's how the tech aspect of it comparison wise works..but I don't know fellas, it would seem unnecessary on Sony's end from a business standpoint to be that far ahead of a competitor who is launching during the same time period.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I'm happy with 4 GB of GDDR5 myself, but Edge isn't a publication that posts bogus speculation.

Edge didn't say 8GB of ram though, it's just that Sony will do something something to top Xbox's.

 

[Afrikan]

You never know how gaming would advance in the next 5 years. 8 gig RAM would be a great decision as it would keep PS4 relevant for years

SONY is promoting 4k heavily and 8 gig RAM will certainly ensure atleast a few of ps4 games sport that rez

no trust me I WOULD LOVE for Sony to go all out...but I just don't understand why they would...right now. I mean, if they launched 6 months after Microsoft's console or something, I can see it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Edge didn't say 8GB of ram though, it's just that Sony will do something something to top Xbox's.

Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB.

 

[stryke]

SONY is promoting 4k heavily and 8 gig RAM will certainly ensure atleast a few of ps4 games sport that rez

I don't think you can just "add more ram" and expect the GPU to significantly improve to reach 4K.

Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB.

Really do suspect the wording is bad here. I think it's "match" in terms of performance, not amount (???).

 

[Dead Prince]

6GB will be fine.

 

[Mandoric]

Edge didn't say 8GB of ram though, it's just that Sony will do something something to top Xbox's.

The sane, sober reading is that their RAM plan to compete with Durango's 8GB is... Making it fast GDDR5 and reserving far less for the OS.

 

[Shayan]

no trust me I WOULD LOVE for Sony to go all out...but I just don't understand why they would...right now. I mean, if they launched 6 months later or something, I can see it.

They have momentum with ps3 in recent times. They need that flair to regain the no1 position. With PS4, they have every chance of regaining that sales crown

I get an uncanny feeling that we might see PS4 tablets down the line . If i were SONY i would definitely concentrate on the tablet market along with PS4

 

[AwakenedCloud]

6GB will be fine.

Bargaining, I like it.

 

[Shayan]

I don't think you can just "add more ram" and expect the GPU to significantly improve to reach 4K.



Really do suspect the wording is bad here. I think it's "match" in terms of performance, not amount (???).

GDDR 5 and 3 are not same . with faster RAM you have faster access to cache mapping and ultimately it comes down to how much cache memory you have in the system

SONY is focusing on hardcore audience and MS is focusing more on casuals , so for next xbox more ram seems the way to go since they could make it a more of an entertainment hub

 

[Afrikan]

They have momentum with ps3 in recent times. They need that flair to regain the no1 position. With PS4, they have every chance of regaining that sales crown

I get an uncanny feeling that we might see PS4 tablets down the line . If i were SONY i would definitely concentrate on the tablet market along with PS4

I mean I can see how they would do it money wise I guess.

I believe this would be their first Launch that didn't push the latest/new media right?

CD -> DVD -> BluRay -> ?

so the extra money they are used to sacrificing for pushing latest/new media could go to extra Ram huh? which you said should help them push 4K easier.

 

[quest]

They have momentum with ps3 in recent times. They need that flair to regain the no1 position. With PS4, they have every chance of regaining that sales crown

I get an uncanny feeling that we might see PS4 tablets down the line . If i were SONY i would definitely concentrate on the tablet market along with PS4

They be best off concentrating on phones. Much higher margins these days. Only apple gets decent margins on tablets that sell. The android tablets that sell have almost no margin and are on a race to the bottom.

 

[Shayan]

I mean I can see how they would do it money wise I guess.

I believe this would be their first Launch that didn't push a latest/new media right?

CD -> DVD -> BluRay -> ?

so the extra money they are used to sacrificing for pushing latest/new media could go to extra Ram huh? which you said should help them push 4K easier.

not only that, they are also not coming up with another Cell, a Cpu where they spent billions supposedly

an 8G GDDR5 module might cost them the same as 256mb XDR, which was very expensive to produce

On top of that, APU would be 22nm based if i am not wrong, the GPU too would have far less transistors meaning quite a lot of savings and they can easily launch their next console with lets say 400/ 450$ price tag

 

[i-Lo]

edit- read with caution of me speaking out of my arse.

Ok everyone just stop for a sec and breathe.... um.. if it were 8 f'n GBs of GDDR5 Ram....I mean that would be what 172GFlops (?) + another 192 GFlops or whatever its called for a total of 364 Gflops??? compared to Durango's 100 something Giggaflops?

I don't know if that's how the tech aspect of it comparison wise works..but I don't know fellas, it would seem unnecessary on Sony's end from a business standpoint to be that far ahead of a competitor who is launching during the same time period.

If 1 cow eats 1 kg of food in 1 hour, how many hours does it take for 10 cows each to eat 1kg of food?

Out of the two, which is heavier: 1Kg of iron or 1Kg of gold

If you can answer the two questions I will tell you why your hypothesis is so very wrong.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Do people have trouble realizing that the PS4 is going to be "announced" like 5 times this year. It doesn't matter that there is a lot of days in between. Feb 20 event, GDC, E3, Another event closer to release. Who knows what else in between.

It's time to get some buzz going.

 

[shinobi602]

Not to dismiss any source or any posters, but I highly, highly doubt Nextbox or PS4 will release this year....Late next year maybe for PS4. March 2015 looks ideal to me from Sony's standpoint. It just doesn't have enough breathing room between now and the year end. I'm sure 1st party studios are working with a sdk, but there's just not enough time between unveiling games now and releasing them 9 months from now. All we have in terms of media is Agni's philosphy and a few tech demos. Not a single screenshot released. If it's announced that it will be released this year, then it will an extremely brash decision on Sony's part, as much as I want my grubby mitts on a PS4 controller. I think part of this is coming from me following the launch of previous 4 generation of consoles. This will be really unprecedented.

 

[quest]

not only that, they are also not coming up with another Cell, a Cpu where they spent billions supposedly

an 8G GDDR5 module might cost them the same as 256mb XDR, which was very expensive to produce

On top of that, APU would be 22nm based if i am not wrong, the GPU too would have far less transistors meaning quite a lot of savings and they can easily launch their next console with lets say 400/ 450$ price tag

They will be at 28nm for a while. It is not the cost of the ram it will be the cost of putting 16 chips on the motherboard and all the complexity.

 

[Ryaaan14]

Even if it were true, what would be the point of ramping it up to 8GB?

 

[Mandoric]

Do people have trouble realizing that the PS4 is going to be "announced" like 5 times this year. It doesn't matter that there is a lot of days in between. Feb 20 event, GDC, E3, Another event closer to release. Who knows what else in between.

It's time to get some buzz going.

The event on the 20th, GDC, E3, TGS? Reveal/teaser, western first party, western third party, Japanese first/exclusive

 

[onQ123]

edit- read with caution of me speaking out of my arse.

Ok everyone just stop for a sec and breathe.... um.. if it were 8 f'n GBs of GDDR5 Ram....I mean that would be what 172GFlops (?) + another 192 GFlops or whatever its called for a total of 364 Gflops??? compared to Durango's 100 something Giggaflops?

I don't know if that's how the tech aspect of it comparison wise works..but I don't know fellas, it would seem unnecessary on Sony's end from a business standpoint to be that far ahead of a competitor who is launching during the same time period.

 

[FStop7]

I can't really bring myself to be excited. On previous generations, I used to get real excited over the prospect of new consoles coming and what new experiences I would see. But now? Not really. I just don't care. I don't care whether one is more powerful than another. That doesn't even sell me. Will the games be good? All I care for. If they are bland, uninteresting, and end up being the same stuff we've been getting, only dressed up prettier, I doubt I would be enticed to play it.

This is pretty much how I feel. I'm looking forward to new hardware but I really think that MS, Sony and the big publishers are going to look for every last nook and cranny to squeeze money out of customers in the form of microtransactions, subscriptions, and God knows what else. And the quality of games will continue to suffer for it.

 

[i-Lo]

While I am extremely doubtful about the actuality of 8GB GDDR5, I am beginning to wonder whether Sony will do it at least for the first a few batches of consoles until the stacked DDR3/4 production can produce sufficient volume to replace the GDDR5 after it has gone through clock speed/bandwidth related tweaks to match GDDR5's performance.

 

[Punkster_NY]

so apparently slashgear has also misinterpreted the info about Sony bumping the ram to 8GB...hrmmm who to believe here. : /

http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-4-details-leak-new-touchpad-laden-controller-inbound-01267892/

Next up, we’ve got the hardware. People apparently close to the project claim that the PS4 will ship with 4GB of GDDR5 RAM, though Sony might consider bumping that up to 8GB by the time the system launches.

that's so damn adorable. I miss having a dog.

 

[Iacobellis]

I'm not paying 599 U.S. dollars for 8GB of GDDR5 RAM.

 

[FatalMuzza]

So xbox720 is reserving 3 gig for the system, leaving 5 gig for the game. What's the ps3 system overhead? Assuming its a paltry 1 gig, that leaves 3 for the game, still 2 gig under.

That's quite the deficit and could lead to porting issues just like this gen. I can see how Sony needs to be cautios in the regard.

 

[i-Lo]

so apparently slashgear has also misinterpreted the info about Sony bumping the ram to 8GB...hrmmm who to believe here. : /

http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-4-details-leak-new-touchpad-laden-controller-inbound-01267892/

Are they not directly referencing the EDGE report for that bit of detail? So it is a basically copy paste job.

 

[Lord Error]

Even if it were true, what would be the point of ramping it up to 8GB?

I was musing about it myself. I'm not even sure the rest of hardware in these two machines is high end enough to make sense to have that much memory. I see how someone can disagree, but if you do, just think higher. What if they had 16GB? 32? Clearly that much would be a complete waste for a machine that has predominantly to run a single application that also has to be able to load from an optical disc. I'm simply not sure if 8 is already too high to be properly utilized, and for that it wouldn't surprise me if MS really dedicates so much of it to OS and multitasking.

 

[Iacobellis]

So xbox720 is reserving 3 gig for the system, leaving 5 gig for the game. What's the ps3 system overhead? Assuming its a paltry 1 gig, that leaves 3 for the game, still 2 gig under.

That's quite the deficit and could lead to porting issues just like this gen. I can see how Sony needs to be cautios in the regard.

512MB for the OS. The other 3.5GB won't be a total disadvantage, because of the increased speeds of GDDR5 compared to DDR3.

 

[Pistolero]

Not to dismiss any source or any posters, but I highly, highly doubt Nextbox or PS4 will release this year....Late next year maybe for PS4. March 2015 looks ideal to me from Sony's standpoint. It just doesn't have enough breathing room between now and the year end. I'm sure 1st party studios are working with a sdk, but there's just not enough time between unveiling games now and releasing them 9 months from now. All we have in terms of media is Agni's philosphy and a few tech demos. Not a single screenshot released. If it's announced that it will be released this year, then it will an extremely brash decision on Sony's part, as much as I want my grubby mitts on a PS4 controller. I think part of this is coming from me following the launch of previous 4 generation of consoles. This will be really unprecedented.

Drugs are bad...That's the only conclusion your post made me come to! Yep, now that Sony decided to reveal their upcoming machine, they'll devote the 3 next weeks to conceptualize it, conceive it, test it, fab it and, with a bit of luck, produce a couple of games the night of the presentation. They will have had enough time...

 

[Ryaaan14]

I was musing about it myself. I'm not even sure the rest of hardware in these two machines is high end enough to make sense to have that much memory. I see how someone can disagree, but if you do, just think higher. What if they had 16GB? 32? Clearly that much would be a complete waste for a machine that has predominantly to run a single application that also has to be able to load from an optical disc. I'm simply not sure if 8 is already too high to be properly utilized, and for that it wouldn't surprise me if MS really dedicates so much of it to OS and multitasking.

Those are good points as well, but I was merely thinking it's bad business to produce something with so much under the hood to compete with another console when the majority of your customers are going to buy your product even without the extra horsepower.

Plus how the fuck are 3rd party devs supposed to handle this? You'd essentially have to downport three times to make a cross platform title...

 

[Pistolero]

Lord Error is absolutely correct. The GPU and CPU in these machines, however tailored and boosted they are, will not be hungry enough to command the use of 8 GB GDDR. That is completely insane...watseful beyond words...Unless you want to use that precious memory controlling your TV, fridge, PC, watch, car, ...girlfriend -hum, I digress-...

GAF, I have a question I'm ashamed to ask : How do you...wait for it!...dundundun...post GIFS?

 

[I H8 Memes]

8 gigs is probably developer kits.

 

[stryke]

So xbox720 is reserving 3 gig for the system, leaving 5 gig for the game. What's the ps3 system overhead? Assuming its a paltry 1 gig, that leaves 3 for the game, still 2 gig under.

That's quite the deficit and could lead to porting issues just like this gen. I can see how Sony needs to be cautios in the regard.

Here we go again.

GAF, I have a question I'm ashamed to ask : How do you...wait for it!...dundundun...post GIFS?

Two ways - when typing up a reply, in the toolbar there's a insert image button and it will ask you to paste the URL of the image. Or you can do the old fashion way of typing

.

 

[Officerrob]

So xbox720 is reserving 3 gig for the system, leaving 5 gig for the game. What's the ps3 system overhead? Assuming its a paltry 1 gig, that leaves 3 for the game, still 2 gig under.

That's quite the deficit and could lead to porting issues just like this gen. I can see how Sony needs to be cautios in the regard.

So much wrong with this post. First of all, the 3GB for the next Xbox OS has been debunked by numerous people in the know. The final number isn't known at this time, but is said to be less than the rumored 3GB. Secondly, the Xbox is using DDR3 while the Playstation is using GDDR5, it's not an apples to apples comparison

 

[onQ123]

so apparently slashgear has also misinterpreted the info about Sony bumping the ram to 8GB...hrmmm who to believe here. : /

http://www.slashgear.com/playstation-4-details-leak-new-touchpad-laden-controller-inbound-01267892/

they are just repeating what Edge said.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

While I am extremely doubtful about the actuality of 8GB GDDR5, I am beginning to wonder whether Sony will do it at least for the first a few batches of consoles until the stacked DDR3/4 production can produce sufficient volume to replace the GDDR5 after it has gone through clock speed/bandwidth related tweaks to match GDDR5's performance.

Can they even do that? Isn't there a difference regarding how they can achieve bandwidth with those different approaches? Afaik, with stacked DDR RAM, the bandwidth is achieved through parallelism, so that the GPU has to access multiple objects to achieve the bandwidth, but with GDDR5 RAM the bandwidth can be achieved while accessing a single object. Or does this work differently. I am not really a RAM expert lol.

 

[i-Lo]

Can they even do that? Isn't there a difference regarding how they can achieve bandwidth with those different approaches? Afaik, with stacked DDR RAM, the bandwidth is achieved through parallelism, so that the GPU has to access multiple objects to achieve the bandwidth, but with GDDR5 RAM the bandwidth can be achieved while accessing a single object. Or does this work differently. I am not really a RAM expert lol.

Same here. The idea I posted was a reflection of a another from VGleaks thread about Orbis. I would also like to know whether it is possible because as far pure bandwidth go, the numbers are there.

 

[onQ123]

So xbox720 is reserving 3 gig for the system, leaving 5 gig for the game. What's the ps3 system overhead? Assuming its a paltry 1 gig, that leaves 3 for the game, still 2 gig under.

That's quite the deficit and could lead to porting issues just like this gen. I can see how Sony needs to be cautios in the regard.

not when they have enough bandwidth to access 3GB of new data each frame at 60FPS vs the Xbox Next 1GB of new data each frame at 60FPS.

 

[FatalMuzza]

512MB for the OS. The other 3.5GB won't be a total disadvantage, because of the increased speeds of GDDR5 compared to DDR3.

Not completely following. Faster gfx performance is great, but it cannot overcome a sizing difference.

People are mistakenly comparing PC ram requirements commenting how you don't need more than X because today's games are working just fine. In truth, in a closed console system the entire capacity can be exploited with the inherent baseline. If the 5 gig is used for a title, going down to 3.5 will surely require some sacrifices.

Of course this could be mitigated by developing for the lowest common denominator and calling it a day. But I'm sure there will be exemptions to the rule just like there are today.

 

[onQ123]

8 gigs is probably developer kits.

They had 10GB in the old Devkits

 

[phosphor112]

Not completely following. Faster gfx performance is great, but it cannot overcome a sizing difference.

People are mistakenly comparing PC ram requirements commenting how you don't need more than X because today's games are working just fine. In truth, in a closed console system the entire capacity can be exploited with the inherent baseline. If the 5 gig is used for a title, going down to 3.5 will surely require some sacrifices.

Of course this could be mitigated by developing for the lowest common denominator and calling it a day. But I'm sure there will be exemptions to the rule just like there are today.

Looking at the rumor, they mention the "share" function and the Orbis keeping track of the last 15 minutes of gameplay at all times to share at any time. This would suggest that the 16GB of flash rumored mid last year might be true. If not, the Orbis would have to constantly access the HDD, which can be detrimental to downloaded games. Dedicated flash storage can be used for several things: 8gigs of that can be used for the OS. App expanding and compressing (e.g. Vita) temp video storage. Sony can keep this to a restricted access to not worry about being able to get into OS functions and executables. The other 8 gigs can be used for data caching. I honestly believe GDDR5 is superior to the DDR3 + eSRAM rumored in the Durango, but some devs might find data caching issues if they start pushing the envelope. Having flash wouldn't replace extra ram, but it would be a better alternative to reading from the bluray or HDD.

 

[Sweet Baby Roy]

I'm almost never an early-adopter but this is impressive to say the least. If MG Ground Zeroes is a launch title, it's over. Predicted price point of $350-$400 sounds too good to be true.

 

[ZaCH3000]

Considering Crytek and Agni's Philosophy are barely maxing out high end cards that cap out at 2GB GDDR5, 8GB of the same memory appears wasteful. The GPU isn't powerful enough to take advantage of the extra RAM.

Now, 4GB of DDR3/4 would be a welcome addition. That addition is a highly unlikely one, however. Possible I guess, but too good too be true. Although those specs and the speculation over the controller design would be more than enough to justify a $499 price tag. For a console with those crazy specs the games and OS features would easily be worth its weight in value.