So how many people will falsely equate the second hand market as only gamestop?
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
So how many people will falsely equate the second hand market as only gamestop?
RedNumberFive
Banned
I've bought some garbage from time to time this gen (Tekken 6), some on GAF recommendation (Scribblenauts).
Duxxy3
Member
Better to be worth $30 than $0.
Four_Chamber
Member
If MS does this, I guarantee they'll get some sweet deals from publishers. As a consumer, I'm not too bothered by this. If I was a publisher, I'd be on the phone with MS begging it to be true. In this age where studios are being closed left and right, this is something that will help encourage third parties to invest in the Microsoft platform.
Again, this is assuming that this rumor is true.
Again, this is assuming that this rumor is true.
Eliminating the console demographic from a console would be unwise. Sure, PC has a similar problem, but gaming PCs are massive. They aren't intended to be carried to a friend's place. That's one of the appeals of console gaming. What if you have a rec room for your kids, or they have the console in their room. No internet connection, no sale? Rural places?
As for second hand games, talk about a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
As for second hand games, talk about a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Don't forget $3-8 mainstream, high budget games.
RSLAEV
Member
There are times when I've bought new games that I've ended up hating, and sub sequentially sold them on Amazon for a good amount of what I paid.
Pissed either way. Especially the latter as if I want to sell a game after a very short time, it will be because I think its crap.
If they kill the 2nd hand market, im stuck with an expensive turd thats only usefulness is as a ashtray
There are benefits. They're just few and far between. It mostly stops reduced printing techniques.
But there certainly aren't a lot of benefits.
Non-consumers of Edge would probably benefit from fewer threads arguing over Edge review scores. ;-)
I'm surprised a third party has not taken a stab at having people mail in their games for credit towards a new one. It would eliminate the "everybody is trading in my single player game for Call of Duty!" problem that some perceive to exist. EA especially could do it by offering credit towards a shipped physical product or through Origin purchases.
Steam sales have displayed that some people have a particular ceiling in terms of what they are willing to pay for certain games. Why not try to make money off of some of those $30 to $40 second hand sales rather than ceding everything to GameStop.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
If both Sony and Microsoft do this, the next-gen can fuck right off and I'll stick with my PC like I've always done. Only reason I bought a 360 was so I can bring my Kinect + Dance Central anywhere I damn please.
Beerman462
Member
It's not 100% of the second hand market, but it's a big pretty big percentage.
Comandr
Member
Shrug. Doesn't affect me so I don't really care. It's 2013, and I'm on the internet on every device I own all the time. I couldn't imagine an always-on console being an issue. And I literally bought ONE pre-owned game this generation. Star Ocean 4. I saved 5 bucks and after playing the game, I realize I should have sent that 5 bucks to the developer instead. At some point, things just change in society, and as backwards and crazy and fanatical as the change may seem at first, we just roll with it and before you know it its just the norm.
Frankly, I support any effort to try to drive more dollars in to developer hands. They're the ones that are actually dreaming up and crafting the games that we so love, yet we are so adamant about keeping them down. Why? When you buy a used game, ZERO of those dollars that you throw willingly at gamestop because you can save $10 off the list price go to the people that actually make the game. That seems so crazy to me. Businesses like GameStop are a plague on the industry. They make their money by selling other peoples' wares (multiple times) and then keeping the majority of the money.
And then we wonder why over 100 studios have closed this generation alone. And then we are sad that all of the developers that made our favorite games are gone.
As Patcher's hyperrealistic 240fps games get closer to reality, game development costs are going to soar. If no one is willing to pay the people that put forth the effort to try to give us memorable, fun experiences, then they are going to stop doing it, and everyone loses.
So, thank you Microsoft for making the hard decision. Thank you for being brave enough to think of the people that REALLY matter the most. The consumer? What are you going to consume if there is no one producing anything.
That being said, unless the Durango is really something magical, I'm probably sticking with Sony. Just sayin'.
Frankly, I support any effort to try to drive more dollars in to developer hands. They're the ones that are actually dreaming up and crafting the games that we so love, yet we are so adamant about keeping them down. Why? When you buy a used game, ZERO of those dollars that you throw willingly at gamestop because you can save $10 off the list price go to the people that actually make the game. That seems so crazy to me. Businesses like GameStop are a plague on the industry. They make their money by selling other peoples' wares (multiple times) and then keeping the majority of the money.
And then we wonder why over 100 studios have closed this generation alone. And then we are sad that all of the developers that made our favorite games are gone.
As Patcher's hyperrealistic 240fps games get closer to reality, game development costs are going to soar. If no one is willing to pay the people that put forth the effort to try to give us memorable, fun experiences, then they are going to stop doing it, and everyone loses.
So, thank you Microsoft for making the hard decision. Thank you for being brave enough to think of the people that REALLY matter the most. The consumer? What are you going to consume if there is no one producing anything.
That being said, unless the Durango is really something magical, I'm probably sticking with Sony. Just sayin'.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Assuming Sony isn't in collusion with MS on this...
That would require thought and overhead. They'd rather just blame the customer.
And a big percentage of the new market.
FateBreaker
Member
In terms of second-hand games, I think they should. I think this should have happened a long time ago.
Assuming either MS or Sony are even going to do this.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
No way this is true, especially since a large portion of PS owners never hooked up their console to the internet.
If it's indeed true for both MS and Sony, then I'll be sticking with Wii U + PC.
If it's indeed true for both MS and Sony, then I'll be sticking with Wii U + PC.
Knux-Future
Banned
I want to see if anyone has some legit pros for this idea.
"bu-but it'll save publishers and allow them to make better games" is not one because if anything this will kill more studios and force everything to be blockbusters in order to sell. People will have to be pickier with what they buy and most people will go for the sure thing.
"bu-but it'll save publishers and allow them to make better games" is not one because if anything this will kill more studios and force everything to be blockbusters in order to sell. People will have to be pickier with what they buy and most people will go for the sure thing.
Read through both EDGE threads there have been some pretty good posts.
Pretty much.
Gamefly would have to be pissed about something like this happening. Or Red Box... which is weird because 360 is getting their streaming app exclusively for a while. Hopefully somebody from MS clarifies this long before E3, because as we saw with the PSN outage, letting outlets run wild with speculation cannot do them any good.
There are potential benefits but we can predict that few of them would come to pass based on publisher behavior. Would EA stop trying to sell day one DLC if used games stopped existing? I doubt it. The problem is a lot of the shitty things that have come into being as an attempt to make up for "lost sales" to the second hand market wouldn't go away with the second hand market. If you could reasonably expect everybody to treat their customers the way Valve does, this wouldn't be as contentious a topic.
Knux-Future
Banned
So if your internet goes down, you will be unable to use you 400-600 dollar device to play your 60-70 dollar games. and not be able to use you 30-50 dollar Live service.
also not everyone has internet or good consistent internet...my shit goes down very often.
What about other countries where the internet connections aren't great or available at all?
also you really think this will save publishers? I don't. I think it will kill more and force them to make even more COD-esque games and take less chances.
Beerman462
Member
I posted in the other thread, but the systems will defiantly be in place. The question is will Microsoft or Sony mandate that every game has online always DRM or lock every copy down to the account it's tied to or will they leave it to the publishers discretion? Will you be able to buy and sell copies of a game and buy a pass that allows you to play the game for a discounted price? Say you buy a game for $60 sell it to someone and then in order to use it with their account they have to pay $10 to the publisher.
Knux-Future
Banned
Chie Satonaka
Member
This console generation has been fascinating, and the other two aren't even out yet.
I can't wait to find out if this is true. If it is, and Sony doesn't do this, well. The PS4 suddenly becomes a much more appealing option for a lot of people.
I can't wait to find out if this is true. If it is, and Sony doesn't do this, well. The PS4 suddenly becomes a much more appealing option for a lot of people.
Are you saying you have some evidence to confirm the rumors?
I'd fall asleep before being able to do that, sorry lol.
Nealand Liquor
Member
But according to many here apparently EDGE can't be wrong, as if their pub is the gaming bible and word is gospel.
Dreamgazer
Member
No kidding... No matter how many sources there are to support it or not support it will still have no evidence or confirmation.
Beerman462
Member
Well as it is they can already have the multiplayer passes. I got BF3 from my brother in law and when I tried to play online it said I had to buy an online pass for like $8. They could probably implement Online DRM and block used games this gen if they really wanted.
Reread the OP the online always is the key to everything, so yeah they have the ability to do this anytime they want, just put it in a update.
People sell steam keys all the time in that thread, not to mention all the people selling hardware.
edit: The first 15 posts are almost all about PC Keys.
Tragicomedy
Member
EA has online passes none of them are from Xbox 360 or PS3.
EA is going to continue the system but the idea of it becoming official on X720 and PS4 is on very unstable ground.
Uno Venova
Banned
Many said EDGE can't be wrong at all.? That there is a 100% chance they are right? I wanna see this.
Dreamgazer
Member
derExperte
Member
I don't buy used but try not to keep consoles and games around after I'm done with them. Sure, some for my PS3 were bought digital and I have PS+ but I will never, ever spend 60 on a game that I can't sell later. Hell, the most expensive one I bought for PS3 cost 44 new and my limit will only go lower. PC and Steam are a bit different as that is and will stay my main platform, you can get very good deals and some other advantages, so consoles are only a addition for me. Can't sell the discs which means I have to throw them in the trash eventually to make room? Probably won't buy any or wait for extremely low prices.
CadetMahoney
Member
Perhaps he basing this on their sentiments following this rumor. Who knows.
Comandr
Member
So my internet goes down. Bad things happen. We deal with it. It happens already with my PC. Sometimes my shit just doesn't work. Guess what. I do something else. Time to read a book. Or buy a chia pet. Or help and old lady across the street. My devices belong to me. I don't belong to them.
I believe it has already been brought up in this thread that North America is MS' primary concern as far as Xbox is concerned. Sony has a pretty strong foothold on Europe and we aren't even going to bring up Japan. As far as all of the other little countries.. Well not to sound cruel, but MS isn't catering to them. The target market is NA, and here, the target market is gamers. Many people, myself included, bought an HDTV to enjoy my HD console on. I got high speed internet to better enjoy my online games. Where there is demand, there will be supply. Trust.
I don't know what it will do for publishers. My concern is developers, though the distinction can sometimes be fuzzy. Maybe we'll get more indy games this generation. Maybe it'll kill them all like it killed the dinosaurs. I really don't know, because nothing like this has ever happened before. What I DO know is that the second hand market is a cancer that is killing valuable first-hand sales, and that MUST stop.
I appreciate your well thought out response.
He is referring to the amount of people taking the rumor as fact, considering I've been following both threads all day I can confirm what he is saying.
Uno Venova
Banned
I wanna see this.
Just go back like every 15 pages and there you go.
Dude I'm not going through over 80 pages to point out quotes of people that are acting as if EDGE has basically all but confirmed the rumor, you'll have to go through them yourself.
How do you know this? Because the publishers say so?
I'd love to see some hard data on the negative effects of used games because it seems like a lot of fear mongering to me.
Uno Venova
Banned
hey man, you're the one who said you can confirm many saying 'they can't be wrong'.
I saw this one coming, but figured it would be next-next gen, not this go round. IF this is true (which I don't completely doubt) a huge factor is going to be whether or not Sony is doing the same thing or not. But regardless of that, if this is the case Microsoft has to have crunched the numbers and figured any losses they take from people bailing out or people that don't have internet connections or whatever will be outweighed from the new population. You can argue that Microsoft is anti-consumer or whatever and that's totally fine, but they know how to make money and aren't going to risk fucking that up. I think people may be overestimating how much the general populace will care about this. I don't think anyone I know who plays games outside of GAF would give two shits about this, and let's face it: most people who are bemoaning this now are still going to buy one somewhere down the line, especially if Sony goes the same route.
Personally this probably wouldn't ultimately impact me getting one, since I'm going to buy everything for exclusives eventually anyway. I generally go out of my way to buy new games so that part isn't a factor for me, and I don't trade in a lot of stuff so that's not a huge deal, but I do rent stuff through Gamefly semi-frequently. So this would probably result in me just not getting those games period, as opposed to me saying "oh well I guess I have to buy it instead" which from the publisher perspective they are probably okay with since there's probably enough people who will just buy the game instead. If 40 people rent the same copy of a game from gamefly and just two of them buy it now instead of renting it the publisher isn't going to give a fuck about the other 38, they've already come out ahead.
This is going to be fascinating if this is true, and doubly so if Sony goes the same route. This is one of those "some men want to see the world burn" things for me.
Personally this probably wouldn't ultimately impact me getting one, since I'm going to buy everything for exclusives eventually anyway. I generally go out of my way to buy new games so that part isn't a factor for me, and I don't trade in a lot of stuff so that's not a huge deal, but I do rent stuff through Gamefly semi-frequently. So this would probably result in me just not getting those games period, as opposed to me saying "oh well I guess I have to buy it instead" which from the publisher perspective they are probably okay with since there's probably enough people who will just buy the game instead. If 40 people rent the same copy of a game from gamefly and just two of them buy it now instead of renting it the publisher isn't going to give a fuck about the other 38, they've already come out ahead.
This is going to be fascinating if this is true, and doubly so if Sony goes the same route. This is one of those "some men want to see the world burn" things for me.