I lit up one of my graduate students...
- Thread starter bishoptl
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I have been guilty myself of using "No Shlomo" when needing to interact with some of my less tolerant friends who may have issues with my hebrew friends and brothers.
I never knew.
All and all, I think Bish as a teacher would be pretty damned cool (if not terrifying at times if I was late with something)
I never knew.
All and all, I think Bish as a teacher would be pretty damned cool (if not terrifying at times if I was late with something)
Onion_Relish
Member
I like the little explanations for how we can go about trying to imply that what we are saying to another guy isn't gay.
Guess what, if you really feel that uncomfortable that you can't give someone else a compliment without them thinking you're gay, saying no homo is the least of your problems. I tell some of my guy co-workers that they look nice today or they look like they've been hitting the gym. I don't have to say anything otherwise, because they know I'm not gay.
Guess what, if you really feel that uncomfortable that you can't give someone else a compliment without them thinking you're gay, saying no homo is the least of your problems. I tell some of my guy co-workers that they look nice today or they look like they've been hitting the gym. I don't have to say anything otherwise, because they know I'm not gay.
crowphoenix
Banned
By posting in this thread, we have all expressed our clear intent to sleep with each other.
I like how Lupe Fiasco gets around the line in a song. It's hip-hop so when he starts saying it you fully expect him to say "no homo" but he completely swerves it "with no homo-phobia involved. Now if I would've said that you can hold my balls like VFW Halls that would've been the call, but naw"
pretty clever. /plug
pretty clever. /plug
T.M. MacReady
NO ONE DENIES MEMBER
My post was about people on gaf overreacting and enjoying arguing and nitpicking, I've done nothing but agree with everyone's assessment that the student's actions were irresponsible and wrong. Your professor's story is definitely sad, but has nothing to do with anything I posted. If I can't make a lighthearted jab at the people of Gaf on Gaf, then we all need to think about how we're overreacting.
marrec trying to bait me into a dumb argument with him is only justifying the dumb joke i made. Gaf = serious business. I'll step aside.
SnakeSlashRO
Banned
More Gifs in this thread plz.
Aw, I wasn't trying to bait you! I was laughing with you, not at you! Lets just kiss and make up man, I can't stay mad at you.
Partial Gamification
Banned
I don't want you shot down. You have the right to voice what you think just like anyone else. I won't deny that I have a tendancy to overreact but I have seen too may dark ends of various spectra. I'm sorry for coming off like a jerk.
i thought he was an LAPD training officer.
What, that's not okay?
I touched on this already.
It most certainly is.
Of course - with appropriate repercussions. Or do you think this occurs in a vacuum?
Your assumption is correct.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I don't really think "No homo" is casual homophobia. It's just saying don't interpret this gift as a homosexual advance. With the increasing normalisation of homosexual behaviour, surely doing this is going to be more and more necessary in the future?
And was anyone actually offended, or is this a case of pre-emptively getting offended on behalf of someone else?
And was anyone actually offended, or is this a case of pre-emptively getting offended on behalf of someone else?
They're graduate students in videogamez. Many probably spew nonsense on XBL nightly.
Probably not an entirely fair assessment.
Anyone with half a brain would realize that the same 'gift' (it's a fucking piece of chocolate ffs) given to the entire class isn't a homosexual advance. The "no homo" wasn't there for that clarification.
Disagree 100%. And I was a game design teacher for 2 years.
Why does someone need to be offended before anyone teaches them about casual bigotry? The fact that no one else was put off by the candies makes it all the more clear that Bish was perfectly reasonable in his actions.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Correct but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for being a bigot. If you're a bigot in the work place expect to be reprimanded. If you're a bigot towards those around you expect to be called out for it if not worse.
legacyzero
Banned
You don't think its a teachers job to teach respect and ethics as part of the course?
I think that's every teachers job. Why the hell not?
I expect a teacher to guide me in all things in healping me to grow, not just in the course, but in general.
Dude Abides
Banned
That isn't really true. Lots of potentially offensive things slide.
The problem with "no homo" is more that saying it makes you sound like a dumb teenager.
We're talking about legal adults. If they choose to be idiots so be it.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well that's just it. I don't think this is casual bigotry, and I don't think there's anything to call anyone out over.
I'm not a mind reader, but I'm fairly sure whomever was giving the candies out never set out to offend anyone by it. I ask if anyone was offended, because if so then that is something to react to. If the choccie giver didn't set out to offend anyone, but someone inadvertently was then by all means, tell them that it wasn't appropriate. That's understandable.
How is this not within the right of the teacher? If I said that at work right now at my game design job I would be fired like THAT!
I graduated from the same school and I hear it from employers all the time about my peers, lacking professionalism, and this is definitely part of it. They need to really get told this stuff and everyone in the class needs to hear it and know it's not okay. They're used to their circle and expect most if not all game design teams to behave that way, that's not how the real world works.
edit: It is a teaching in professionalism in the work place. Treat your school the same way you would your job, these are the people in your field and your network.
I graduated from the same school and I hear it from employers all the time about my peers, lacking professionalism, and this is definitely part of it. They need to really get told this stuff and everyone in the class needs to hear it and know it's not okay. They're used to their circle and expect most if not all game design teams to behave that way, that's not how the real world works.
edit: It is a teaching in professionalism in the work place. Treat your school the same way you would your job, these are the people in your field and your network.
God damnit there's a bigger overarching joke here that I will not make because I'm a good person but fuck if you aren't ALL thinking about it now.
You're missing the point of what makes this a teachable moment. If someone had stood up and shouted at the kid that he was being offensive and should consider his actions more carefully then Bish may not have had to step in and engaged the class. Instead everyone in the class just accepted it as THE NORM, this is what they expect from a dude handing out candies and THAT's the reason why he addressed the whole class.
Just because coincidentally someone was not there to be offended for the fact that the phrase is insidiously bigoted does not mean the phrase ISN'T insidiously bigoted. You're basically claiming that if I call Obama the N-word to a White Supremacist then I'm not in the wrong because that White Supremacist wasn't offended. If this is not your intent then please rephrase your disagreement.
Pretty sure that stuff ends at High School unless the class is specifically called 'Ethics.'
After high school you got adults who are paying to sit in that class. The only thing that should warrant getting kicked out of class is if theyre actively disrupting it.
Was it pointed out to every student that every student was getting one? Or did he just walk around and give them to people one-by-one?
If some guy came up to me and gave me individually a heart shaped candy and said HVD I would assume he was hitting on me. Of course, if I saw him give them to everyone, that would be obviously not the case.
How clever. Implying I'm an idiot because I don't feel like teaching adults how to behave sure proves you are a good and decent person that under no circumstances would think of other people as inferior because they hold another opinion.
you're just trying to get someone to say it aren't you
I would imagine so.
If he handed one to you without the sticker on it, then sure, I guess it's a romatic gesture. A weak ass one, but sure.
If he handed one to you with the sticker on then I'd imagine he's mocking you, unless you're friends.
But I think the simplest explaination is that he was handing them to the entire class, otherwise why would Bish tell him off?
P.S. It's not valentine's day yet anyways.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I disagree with your interpretation. The fact that no one stood up and shouted at the kid indicates to me that there's really nothing to get upset over.
Maybe we should save our rage for things that are deserving of it, say...this. Not someone trying to give chocolates out.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I wholeheartedly disagree that something like this should be private. OP should've done exactly what he did, but without snapping — which is what it sounds like happened. Not because it was mean, but because it's less effective.
If you attack someone, even with good reason, over something wrong they've done, then they'll be able to justify getting defensive, taking offense, admonishing you right back. Instead of considering why you yelled at them, they will, to some degree, resent you and associate you with learning they are doing something wrong. They are wrong, but that realization/knowledge has been filtered through your tirade.
If you truly want to show someone how pathetic/ugly/horrible they are, you don't just tell them they're "fucking pathetic/ugly/horrible." You simply present them with, or lead them to a mirror and let them see themselves. That way, they can't just think "oh, that guy's just being an abrasive asshole," or "that teacher is just psycho."
Like in Inception, Cobb said the mind would reject an implanted idea if it feels foreign, but would embrace said idea if the idea felt like it was reached naturally. Those are the truth bombs that truly have an impact.
Doesn't matter whether Bishoptl's reaction was understandable. That guy killing the drunk drive who caused his sons' deaths was "understandable," as all hell. That doesn't make it okay.
It's important to recognize the little reasons that bigotry still permeates our society. The big stupid gestures like in the thread you've linked are blatant and easy to fight back against, but the more subtle things like 'no homo' should be treated as equally venomous to society.
Teachers from all countries all over the world since the beginning of forever were expected to teach children not only one single topic, but how be to a decent human being.
Our teachers called us out for being dipshits in middle school and now in university when someone holds an opinion that is simply unbearable within modern society the teacher will call him out and correct him.
It's everyone's job to make society better, every single one. If bish changed this guys opinion and made him a better person, awesome. If not, he still did the right thing.
Well considering
1.) Bish does not stand for homophobic/insensitive language in his classroom and
2.) Not saying anything about it is another way of saying it's okay
I'd say it's perfectly reasonable that he said something to the class. It's a perfect opportunity to not only teach the person in question that this is not okay, but the rest of the class as well. As opposed to just saying nothing and letting them think that there's no problem with it.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Agreed. These subtle gestures are probably harder to fight against because those who want to perpetuate the way things have been can easily say someone is overreacting, which is part of why I don't approve going off on people.
So, using the no homo meme is an "simply unbearable opinion within modern society"?
crowphoenix
Banned
Why? I can see no reason that gays becoming more accepted in society would cause me or anyone else to defend their actions.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
Thanks for helping to try and create people we call tolerate working with. My college had a quite a few part time teachers who just didn't care and left a lot of younger students with the impression the workplace is just a big "Who gives a fuck?"
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I don't see why this is the case. I honestly don't. Why does it matter if someone else thinks that I am hitting on a dude? I am not trying to be obtuse here. If I give another dude a hug and some strangers happen to think we're gay, wtf do I care?
QuicheFontaine
Member
I think whether it's homophobic or not is debatable.
It's reasonable for him to say something in the sense that it's his classroom, and his standards and rules should apply.
As far as a "perfect opportunity", I'm not so sure. Unless it's a class on ethics I'd say not really.
And I'll reiterate, I'm not a mind reader and I can't look into the hearts of men (or women), but just going by context that they are grad students in some class, I would imagine that there was no malice in the giving of these chocolates. I think it was intended in a sense of fun, and that the other students understood that.
Having the teacher go on to lecture them on the "insidious bigotry" of it all probably changed no ones perception.
but you don't know this. if i was give a chocolate that said no homo, i would be offended. let's not pretend like bish is the only one that holds this belief and was a crazy person. it's obvious in this thread that many are on both sides.
crowphoenix
Banned
You say you are no mind reader but go on to speculate your intentions. Why do you think he added the no homo to his candy?
Part of the course on Game Design is behaving like a professional. No matter what class it is, from 3D Modeling to Unity development, every teacher is going to tell you not to do stuff like this and to be a professional. This was something he had to make sure everyone of these grad students knew. They had just paid their souls in tuition and now need to find jobs to pay that off, and none of them are finding jobs if they behave like this or think that it is okay. Judging by the class' not really reacting to it they didn't see a problem with it so Bish felt he had to say something. I'm glad he did. You have no idea how many times in class I cringed at the social ignorance of my peers. It's all a part of being a professional. If you think Bish had no place to say this, imagine the kid made a indie game called "NO HOMO" and it was plastered all over his personal website? The kid wouldn't find work that's for sure.
As for whether or not "no homo" is offensive, do you say "no hetero" to every woman that you talk to? You know, just to make sure she knows you're not hitting on her? Because it's pretty common for men to be attracted to women these days, they might take insincere gestures for sexual advances.
As for whether or not "no homo" is offensive, do you say "no hetero" to every woman that you talk to? You know, just to make sure she knows you're not hitting on her? Because it's pretty common for men to be attracted to women these days, they might take insincere gestures for sexual advances.
/sarcasm
I work in Western Pennsylvania where there just so happens to be a large concentration of racist people. These racist people are not meaning to be offensive when they say things like 'I'd let him park my car, but he's black you know, so I'll just do it myself.' They think that these types of statements are perfectly acceptable. It's not a matter of if one intends to be maleficent when making a bigoted statement because most of the time they were raised to believe that making those statements is perfectly fine.
Do you understand what I'm saying here?
Whether you think it's homophobic or not doesn't even matter. It's still insensitive.
And in that same vein it doesn't really matter what someone's intention with the phrase is. If you jokingly call a white person a nigger in a room full of white people, it's pretty likely that no one is going to be personally offended by that. But that doesn't mean the other implications of the word no longer exist just because you don't want them to. And it doesn't suddenly make it okay because you used it in a context where the people it's referencing aren't around. Everyone in that room; white or other has the right to be offended by that. The same thing goes for the phrase no homo.
Because this kid had the balls to pass out these chocolates with no homo on them to a class full of people whose personal beliefs he did not know, he deserves whatever repercussions he got.
No homo? Says the gayest person I know? Probably the gayest on GAF?
I mean, I get what you're trying to do. But they don't know you're gay.
QuicheFontaine
Member
That's fine. If you were in that classroom, then you could say to the kid something like "Hey, you know I don't think it's cool that you're handing out no-homo chocolates", and we could go from there.
The fact that none of the students did that indicates to me that no one was offended. The other conclusion is that we've all become so desensitized to casual homophobia that no one noticed that they...ought to be offended?
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