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[Cpt.Underpants]

Just finished the game yesterday and thought it was superb

Anyway, was Booker willing to let himself get drowned by his daughter/Elizabeth when he eventually figured out that he is Comstock?

By killing Booker would that eliminate Elizabeth as well? Since if there's no Booker, there's no Elizabeth.

 

[famousmortimer]

If you walk around at the very beginning of the game you will hear someone say, "I prefer to wait a couple years while Fink irons out all the kinks."

There are probably some serious complications that come along with Vigors.

Perfect. I figured it was covered somewhere. Thanks!

 

[LiK]

Just finished the game yesterday and thought it was superb

Anyway, was Booker willing to let himself get drowned by his daughter/Elizabeth when he eventually figured out that he is Comstock?

By killing Booker would that eliminate Elizabeth as well? Since if there's no Booker, there's no Elizabeth.

The interesting thing is that one Elizabeth still existed after he was drowned while the rest faded away. So Booker still survives in one timeline, I assume.

 

[Superimposer]

The code for the elevator towards the end is 0451. That's the combination to the UNATCO storage room outside. Also used as the elevator code of Sarif's office in Human Revolution.

Right. I got that reference but I saw it as a reference to past Irrational games, which have also used this code before. Can't remember the first one to use this code.

Edit: Apparently it was System Shock 2

 

[Zeth]

L-u-t-e-c-e. This name is killing me here.

Honorable mention: Comcast/Coleslaw

 

[Guess Who]

The code for the elevator towards the end is 0451. That's the combination to the UNATCO storage room outside. Also used as the elevator code of Sarif's office in Human Revolution.

That's a reference to System Shock, which is what Deus Ex was referencing as well.

 

[Gandie]

Holy shit that jump scare, I almost cried. Haven't finished it yet, just needed to write about it somewhere.

 

[AngryMoth]

Ok I think actually get most of the story surprisingly, just a couple of quick questions.

At what point does does Booker go through a tear for the first time into the world at the start of the game? Or did Comstock enter his world? Maybe after they attacked China he used the machine to make Columbia disappear into another reality (Booker's)?

Also, is there any clue as to who is inside of Songbird? One of the audiologs says it is a fusion of man and macine.

 

[SoulUnison]

Yeah, that's a good point. But it does seem weird to have them on sale everywhere if most people can't handle them. I mean, we do know the outcome of a city if everyone starts using them willy-nilly thanks to Rapture, but they don't know that...

Well, that said, didn't Vigors seem *better* than Plasmids?

I guess when they were watching Suchong/Tenenbaum they basically knew everything they needed to do to manufacture right off the bat, so they could put all additional R&D into improving the concept, rather than developing it in the first place.

Plasmids required EVE, which is in and of itself pretty specialized and somewhat rare. Meanwhile Vigors only require "Salts" which I took to mean they drew from the body's electrolytes. Also, the enemies that did use Plasmids like the Fireman and the Crow guys didn't seem anywhere near as out-and-out delusional-paranoid-schizophrenic as Splicers did.

 

[Metroidvania]

Technically it was elizabeth/anna drowning Booker. I think the assumption is, like booker not rowing in the beginning, that every elizabeth in every universe would do this (a fact backed up by the elizabeth who does go on to destroy the world doesn't like herself and wants to prevent it from happening).

But that doesn't explain the scene after the credits. So... who knows?

By taking away the baptism choice, Booker now has no option to 'redeem' himself through that decision, which in turn leads to all the time-travelling, universe connecting shenanigans with the Luteces.

Therefore, the only booker who ever could really be alive at this point is a booker who never got baptized, then continued on that universe's relatively 'set' path of gambling, debt, Pinkertons, etc... but still having Anna.

Whether or not it's the player Booker or some other Booker altogether is the question I'm curious on, since booker shows concern over Anna possibly not being there, implying that he has some form of knowledge about the Comstock sale, even though it would have never happened. It could be that this other Booker has just gotten a deja-vu moment similar to the residual memory bleed-over similar to how player Booker suddenly has knowledge of the Vox-helping Booker's memories, but no one knows for sure.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

The interesting thing is that one Elizabeth still existed after he was drowned while the rest faded away. So Booker still survives in one timeline, I assume.

The other Elizabeth's started disappearing while the piano tune was played one by one.

The screen black out after the last piano tune is played, it did not show Elizabeth staying while the last piano tune was played. So I assumed she disappeared as well

 

[LiK]

By taking away the baptism choice, Booker now has no option to 'redeem' himself through that decision, which in turn leads to all the time-travelling, universe connecting shenanigans with the Luteces.

Therefore, the only booker who ever could really be alive at this point is a booker who never got baptized, then continued on that universe's relatively 'set' path of gambling, debt, Pinkertons, etc... but still having Anna.

Whether or not it's the player Booker or some other Booker altogether is the question I'm curious on, since booker shows concern over Anna possibly not being there, implying that he has some form of knowledge about the Comstock sale, even though it would have never happened. It could be that this other Booker has just gotten a deja-vu moment similar to the residual memory bleed-over similar to how player Booker suddenly has knowledge of the Vox-helping Booker's memories, but no one knows for sure.

agree with this. various Bookers will probably still exist but Comstock is forever gone from the timelines. i think that was the point of the game's story.

The other Elizabeth's started disappearing while the piano tune was played one by one.

The screen black out after the last piano tune is played, it did not show Elizabeth staying while the last piano tune was played. So I assumed she disappeared as well

good point, now i'm sad.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Now I get it

What was the significance of showing Rapture? Booker being Ryan doesn't make any sense for a number of reasons

Booker isn't Ryan at all, I'm still trying to understand how people came to such a conclusion.

Elizabeth is saying that across the infinite timelines in the universe there at some point in time will always be a man, and a lighthouse. This will always happen in some variation. She then goes on to explain that it will always be Booker and her when it comes to the floating city of Columbia because they are the catalysts that allow that city to be.

Rapture and Columbia are completely different to one another, they happen in the same universe but different timelines. Andrew Ryan and Jack are their own people not related to Comstock/Booker in anyway.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

good point, now i'm sad.

You and I both

T_T

 

[MrPing1000]

That's a reference to System Shock, which is what Deus Ex was referencing as well.

I knew I knew it from somewhere. When I saw it, I thought to myself I've seen that code before sure of it, just couldn't place it.

 

[Ceebs]

Holy shit that jump scare, I almost cried. Haven't finished it yet, just needed to write about it somewhere.

The one in the wardens office near the end?

Yeah that one freaked me the fuck out.

 

[LiK]

The one in the wardens office near the end?

Yeah that one freaked me the fuck out.

that was a good one.

 

[SmithnCo]

Holy shit that jump scare, I almost cried. Haven't finished it yet, just needed to write about it somewhere.

Haha, that one caught me by surprise and seemed like a nod to the first game. I also like how Elizabeth hits you with a wrench as a callback.

 

[Guess Who]

The one in the wardens office near the end?

Yeah that one freaked me the fuck out.

that was a good one.

Haha, that one caught me by surprise and seemed like a nod to the first game. I also like how Elizabeth hits you with a wrench as a callback.

Haha, yeah, that whole section in general was the creepiest part of the game. All those midgets/kids with Washington heads, what the fuck?

 

[LiK]

Haha, yeah, that whole section in general was the creepiest part of the game. All those midgets/kids with Washington heads, what the fuck?

that felt like a callback to Bioshock 1. No Elizabeth, dark creepy abandoned areas and lack of resources cuz none of those Washington head dudes drop anything. Plus those Silent dudes act sorta like those cameras in Bioshock 1. It was definitely creepiest part of the game.

 

[Anson225]

Holy shit that jump scare, I almost cried. Haven't finished it yet, just needed to write about it somewhere.

somehow I knew there's gonna be something behind me. so I spent 10 seconds moving my mouse for a 180 turn

 

[megalowho]

All spellings of the Lettuce twins should be canon, it fits their character. Infinite timelines!

 

[LordCanti]

Holy shit that jump scare, I almost cried. Haven't finished it yet, just needed to write about it somewhere.

I literally yelled "AAAH FUCK". It's the most well timed and unexpected jump scare I've ever encountered.

 

[Noray]

Anyone know what's going on with these female cops? http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/596999343217392292/33115DA8D0BFAAC665A13FB95E8EB61AC1FD97EA/

Seen a bunch of them early on, but they aren't all like that. Normal hands, they bleed too iirc. WTF.

 

[LiK]

I literally yelled "AAAH FUCK". It's the most well timed and unexpected jump scare I've ever encountered.

turn around and for a sec, i'm like "huh", then he screams in my face with headphones on. lol

 

[oktarb]

And flying fuck monkeys be praised! As a new father those ending moments..man, giving up your daughter, the finger, lil baby wails. I had father protective bile rising in heart-throat.

After the credits I was mentally mumbling "Please be in the crib, PLEASE be in the crib! You're totally going to screw me over on this aren't you!? please be in the crib! Nooooo....!"

 

[Guess Who]

I literally yelled "AAAH FUCK". It's the most well timed and unexpected jump scare I've ever encountered.

I think it works so well because it's the only jump scare in the whole game and it happens so late that you aren't expecting it.

 

[chogidogs]

Anyone know what's going on with these female cops? http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/596999343217392292/33115DA8D0BFAAC665A13FB95E8EB61AC1FD97EA/

Seen a bunch of them early on, but they aren't all like that. Normal hands, they bleed too iirc. WTF.

Same thing happened to me when I stumbled on the cementary before the quest. 2 vox dudes standing over a grave with glowing eyes and won't die! Creepy shit!

 

[LiK]

I think it works so well because it's the only jump scare in the whole game and it happens so late that you aren't expecting it.

it's pretty smart. you think you cleared out everyone and then BAM, right in your face.

kinda disappointed they spoiled those dudes tho. they made an action figure for them and they're not even in the game that much.

 

[Jofamo]

Well, that said, didn't Vigors seem *better* than Plasmids?

I guess when they were watching Suchong/Tenenbaum they basically knew everything they needed to do to manufacture right off the bat, so they could put all additional R&D into improving the concept, rather than developing it in the first place.

Plasmids required EVE, which is in and of itself pretty specialized and somewhat rare. Meanwhile Vigors only require "Salts" which I took to mean they drew from the body's electrolytes. Also, the enemies that did use Plasmids like the Fireman and the Crow guys didn't seem anywhere near as out-and-out delusional-paranoid-schizophrenic as Splicers did.

My guess is that Vigors are still relatively new on the scene in Columbia. By the time things went to shit in Rapture, people had been splicing with them for ages and grew more and more insane and delusional. The relatively few Vigor-weilding enemies in Infinite we do see, the Fireman, Crow Guy, Slate etc... they seem to be getting pretty crazy themselves. Fireguy even goes on a suicide attack near the end of his health.

I reckon given a year or two, Columbia might have fallen as far as Rapture.

I wonder how Fink developed Vigors in the first place though. I doubt he had access to the same Adam carrying sea slugs Rapture needed to make Plasmids.

 

[MGrant]

I think it works so well because it's the only jump scare in the whole game and it happens so late that you aren't expecting it.

For sure, although my roommate was curious as to why I yelled "Mother fucker!" out of nowhere last night.

 

[FeD.nL]

So when you die before you are with Liz you 'respawn' in your room. What if that is a 'new' Booker stepping thru a tear. So everytime you die, that's a Booker who has failed his mission.

But when your with Elizabeth and she revives you you also notice the big syringe which looks a lot like the one used by the little sisters = Elizabeth is little sister, Booker is big daddy?

 

[LordCanti]

I think it works so well because it's the only jump scare in the whole game and it happens so late that you aren't expecting it.

They give you a ton of warning when those guys are around too (light/noise/etc). So you've cleared out this room, there's been no jump scares in the entire game, and then BAM.

So when you die before you are with Liz you 'respawn' in your room. What if that is a 'new' Booker stepping thru a tear. So everytime you die, that's a Booker who has failed his mission.

But when your with Elizabeth and she revives you you also notice the big syringe which looks a lot like the one used by the little sisters = Elizabeth is little sister, Booker is big daddy?

That makes sense. Old Elizabeth says that Booker failed an infinite amount of times in his attempt to save her. She didn't necessarily mean that all the failures occurred at the same point on the timeline.

 

[antitrop]

Going back to Rapture is the moment of the generation. Sorry Dead Space 2.

 

[Superimposer]

Going back to Rapture is the moment of the generation. Sorry Dead Space 2.

What was the moment in Dead Space 2 you're thinking of? That was a total abomination of a game for me. Or rather, it got so bad towards the end that is just soured everything that happened before it.

But yes, I agree with you on the moment of the generation part. Runners up are Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

Marston's death

, Bioshock (twist)

 

[famousmortimer]

I didn't see going back to rapture as that big of a deal. It was a bit of fan service but it didn't do anything for the story.


The ending is one of the moments of the generation for me, right up there with the final few seconds of Red Dead.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

Anyone know what's going on with these female cops? http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/596999343217392292/33115DA8D0BFAAC665A13FB95E8EB61AC1FD97EA/

Seen a bunch of them early on, but they aren't all like that. Normal hands, they bleed too iirc. WTF.

I assumed they were a mix of Flying Squad protective gear and death mask in honour of Lady Comstock. There's probably a proper explanation though.

 

[Sblargh]

I think comparing Elizabeth to the Little Sisters diminishes the character a bit, even if the game invites us a bit to think in terms of parallels.

I think it was Giant Bomb's review that said it was weird that the game ignore Elizabeth, but actually makes the most sense. You are the guy they want to kill, you are not just some random nobody getting the girl, you are the False Sheperd as foretold by The Prophet. Priority one is to murder you; capturing Elizabeth is important, but comes second.

It really is a relationship among equals, even if the functions are different. You shoot, she finds items. You get shot, she heals. From either the gameplay point of view and the story, she's almost never as passive and helpless as a little sister.

 

[chogidogs]

I didn't see going back to rapture as that big of a deal. It was a bit of fan service but it didn't do anything for the story.


The ending is one of the moments of the generation for me, right up there with the final few seconds of Red Dead.

I agree. It wasn't integral to the story. Outside of the lighthouse explanation, you could have put any other game there and it would have had the same effect.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Does anybody have any thoughts on Constance Field? I only found two voxaphones with her. She is Luteces' daughter right? Constance Field = Constant Field I assume? What is her role? where did she come from? Is there somewhere I can read/listen to the voxaphone entries?

 

[B33]

I'd like to think the scene at the end implies there exists a universe where Booker remains with Anna and never gives her up, thus precluding Columbia and all of the atrocities they encounter.

 

[Sblargh]

Does anybody have any thoughts on Constance Field? I only found two voxaphones with her. She is Luteces' daughter right? Constance Field = Constant Field I assume? What is her role? where did she come from? Is there somewhere I can read/listen to the voxaphone entries?

You can press "O" on the PC and then circle the menu with Q/E.
I don't know how it works on consoles, but anyway, it's an awkward menu.

 

[Moobabe]

Does anybody have any thoughts on Constance Field? I only found two voxaphones with her. She is Luteces' daughter right? Constance Field = Constant Field I assume? What is her role? where did she come from? Is there somewhere I can read/listen to the voxaphone entries?

No she isn't her daughter - here's her first voxophone:

"Madame Lutece - I have read all of your books on the sciences. Mama says, "it's not a fit occupation for a lady," but I think she's jealous of our cleverness. Is it true that only you are allowed to visit the girl in the tower? If the lamb is lonely too, I should like to meet her, as we would have much in common."

 

[Dr Dogg]

Well that was a total mind trip at the end. I was expecting some Butterfly Effect wrap up but it came off more of a combination of OldBoy & Fight Club. Loads of questions unanswered but feel like diving straight back in again. Got the Art Book on order so fingers crossed that might divulge a little. Top marks have to go to the use of music, so many nods and winks along the way. At least the subtitle makes sense now.

 

[antitrop]

What was the moment in Dead Space 2 you're thinking of? That was a total abomination of a game for me. Or rather, it got so bad towards the end that is just soured everything that happened before it.

But yes, I agree with you on the moment of the generation part. Runners up are Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

Marston's death

, Bioshock (twist)

Spoiler

Marston's death

.

Red Dead was also the previous holder of my "game of the generation" vote. Until last night.

I want to mention how much I loved the voxes I was picking up at the end, but I forgot the name of the director already.

The guy who just filming nature and then gets pushed off in his final video. I thought those were very well done. Very profound.

 

[Superimposer]

Spoiler

Marston's death

.

Red Dead was also the previous holder of my "game of the generation" vote. Until last night.

I want to mention how much I loved the voxes I was picking up at the end, but I forgot the name of the director already.

The guy who just filming nature and then gets pushed off in his final video. I thought those were very well done. Very profound.

Huh? What about Dead Space 2?

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think comparing Elizabeth to the Little Sisters diminishes the character a bit, even if the game invites us a bit to think in terms of parallels.

I think Elizabeth is more of a parallel to Jack given she's the child that kills the parent (at his own command) who just happens to be the man that builds the city.

 

[antitrop]

Huh? What about Dead Space 2?

Spoiler

Eyeball machine

 

[Superimposer]

Spoiler

Eyeball machine

You know what I also liked but I think is generally hated? The Assassin's Creed 2 ending.

 

[BlastProcessing]

No she isn't her daughter - here's her first voxophone:

"Madame Lutece - I have read all of your books on the sciences. Mama says, "it's not a fit occupation for a lady," but I think she's jealous of our cleverness. Is it true that only you are allowed to visit the girl in the tower? If the lamb is lonely too, I should like to meet her, as we would have much in common."

Ok, so not her daughter then. But someone who was able to comprehend her books and has something in common with Elizabeth?