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[GorillaJu]

EatChildren, how do you reconcile the ending post-credits? If you think Elizabeth is essentially ending herself by preemptively ending Comstock, then she would never have been born, thus the final ending couldn't take place.

This is why I think the baptism was an idea that Booker after Elizabeth was born, and that the version of events Elizabeth ultimately finds most desirable is one in which she is born still and her mother doesn't die.

 

[JHall]

Oh god I just remembered the wheelchair sequence. By far the creepiest part of the game.

Creepy as shit. Also after you open the door and turn around only to have a Boy of Silence standing right there, it made me jump.

 

[The One Who Knocks]

EatChildren, how do you reconcile the ending post-credits? If you think Elizabeth is essentially ending herself by preemptively ending Comstock, then she would never have been born, thus the final ending couldn't take place.

This is why I think the baptism was an idea that Booker after Elizabeth was born, and that the version of events Elizabeth ultimately finds most desirable is one in which she is born still and her mother doesn't die.

This is not possible because it was the Lutece's machine which rendered Comstock sterile in the alternative set of universes. This sterility prevented him from having a child and being required to take Anna (because he saw his own child 'drown in flames the mountains of man' [paraphrased]). If Elizabeth was conceived prior to the baptism Comstock would not have needed to abduct his own child.

EDIT: Here's the chalkboard with the numbering (another dash is added to the front of it after you flip the coin) since it was mentioned below:

And here's the lighthouse keeper note mentioned on the previous page which (I feel) indicates that the Luteces murdered him pre-emptively or after he had already murdered Booker

 

[tea_and_crumpets]

HOLY FUCK, I jut remembered something!

Remember when the Luteces asked you to choose Heads or Tails? Remember how many times it was marked on the board he was carrying? Oh man....

Sorry if anyone else posted that already.

Yes, lots of people noticed that. There's two sides to the board he's wearing as well. The back is full up with chalk marks.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Creepy as shit. Also after you open the door and turn around only to have a Boy of Silence standing right there, it made me jump.

Is it possible to miss that?

The only terrifying BoS moment was at that switchboard for the hospital and you're like AAAAAAAA

 

[Alienous]

HOLY FUCK, I jut remembered something!

Remember when the Luteces asked you to choose Heads or Tails? Remember how many times it was marked on the board he was carrying? Oh man....

Sorry if anyone else posted that already.

The One Who Knocks has the number (this Booker is the 123rd), but that's only the amount of Booker's who even managed to survive their first Songbird encounter.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Thought this was interesting: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/03/29/the-one-twist-in-bioshock-infinite-you-might-have-missed-completely/

While I was playing through BioShock Infinite, I thought it was strange that there were literally no references to Rapture or Andrew Ryan at all. Like, zero. Even if it wasn’t integrated into the plot, I thought perhaps I’d at least find a newspaper clipping lying around talking about that “other” unbelievable city, or some passing mention of a rivalry between Ryan and Comstock or something.

Err...

I mean for one thing it's 1912, but... also, there are references to them viewing it through tears.

 

[scy]

EatChildren, how do you reconcile the ending post-credits? If you think Elizabeth is essentially ending herself by preemptively ending Comstock, then she would never have been born, thus the final ending couldn't take place.

This is why I think the baptism was an idea that Booker after Elizabeth was born, and that the version of events Elizabeth ultimately finds most desirable is one in which she is born still and her mother doesn't die.

While I'm not him, my take on it was that Elizabeth does indeed no longer exist: She's Anna DeWitt. The character raised in Columbia inside the Tower that had her finger lopped off and given powers and all that will never exist.

She'll just be a normal girl.

Also, the Baptism HAS to be before Anna is born. If Anna is born and then he decides to go through the baptism, it makes no sense: Why would Comstock need to steal his heir elsewhere if she was already born?

@The Forbes article - Do people just forget that the original Bioshock took place ~50 years after Infinite?

 

[GorillaJu]

What I thought was interesting about the flipping of coins was how in every universe, Mr Lutece believes it will always fall on heads, but Miss Lutece seems intent on continually testing it to see if there is ever a different outcome - she doesn't believe the result can be predetermined and consistent.

Its another instance where Mr Lutece represents fatalism, and Miss Lutece represents nihilism - similar to their division on how to deal with the cyclical timelines. Mr Lutece believes there are truths and paths, where time is a river, and Miss Lutece believes that there are no inherent truths to the universe - time is an ocean.

Ultimately, both elements are represented. You end the game in the middle of the ocean, in an infinitely large expanse of lighthouses. Yet the place of Booker's baptism, where his timeline starts down its determined path and also meets his end, is in a river.

This is not possible because it was the Lutece's machine which rendered Comstock sterile in the alternative set of universes. This sterility prevented him from having a child and being required to take Anna (because he saw his own child 'drown in flames the mountains of man' [paraphrased]). If Elizabeth was conceived prior to the baptism Comstock would not have needed to abduct his own child.

Yes, you're correct, somehow I missed that.

 

[LiK]

The One Who Knocks has the number (this Booker is the 123rd), but that's only the amount of Booker's who even managed to survive their first Songbird encounter.

Creepy. This reminds me of another game that did a similar thing but it would be a spoiler if i revealed it so I will not.

 

[Incendiary]

The way I interpret the post-credits scene is that Elizabeth and Booker's actions eliminate the diverging timelines and the baptism completely. It's like a hard reset on time. Killing Booker at the baptism eliminates the baptism from Booker's timelines all together, so the only Bookers left are ones that don't go to the baptism in the first place, and instead raise Anna as Anna. With no timeline split and no Comstock created, there are no Elizabeths. Only Bookers and Annas.

EDIT: I'm adding on to this. Essentially the ending is about Elizabeth's sacrifice, not Booker's. Booker wants to kill Comstock to eliminate the problem, but he doesn't know he is Comstock. Elizabeth does, and she also knows that eliminating Comstock means eliminating herself. That's why she drowns Booker right at his moment of realization, before he has a chance to process the fact that his death at this particular point in time will kill every Elizabeth in existence. But that doesn't stop Anna from existing in the timelines that Booker never goes to the baptism in the first place.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

@The Forbes article - Do people just forget that the original Bioshock took place ~50 years after Infinite?

The article has some other hilarious stuff too.

Their eyes are glowing yellow, but if I bet if that light faded, you’d see a sparkling pair of blue eyes staring back at you.

Well I mean, you could just go back/watch a youtube video of someone rescuing one and find out.

 

[delleps]

Oh god I just remembered the wheelchair sequence. By far the creepiest part of the game.

Creepy as shit. Also after you open the door and turn around only to have a Boy of Silence standing right there, it made me jump.

Could you refresh my memory of the wheelchair thing? I remember the sirenman jump scare, but can't remember exactly what happened before it

 

[GorillaJu]

The article has some other hilarious stuff too.



Well I mean, you could just go back/watch a youtube video of someone rescuing one and find out.

There could be some Booker who moved to Russia instead of being baptized, then became Andrew Ryan when he returned to the USA

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Also I understand that they had a story to tell and that the pre-baptism scene was the most dramatic place to have the drowning take place, but it is sort of funny that Elizabeth didn't take him back before Wounded Knee so he could not set a family's goddamn house on fire in any timeline.

 

[tea_and_crumpets]

What I thought was interesting about the flipping of coins was how in every universe, Mr Lutece believes it will always fall on heads, but Miss Lutece seems intent on continually testing it to see if there is ever a different outcome - she doesn't believe the result can be predetermined and consistent.

Its another instance where Mr Lutece represents fatalism, and Miss Lutece represents nihilism - similar to their division on how to deal with the cyclical timelines. Mr Lutece believes there are truths and paths, where time is a river, and Miss Lutece believes that there are no inherent truths to the universe - time is an ocean.

Ultimately, both elements are represented. You end the game in the middle of the ocean, in an infinitely large expanse of lighthouses. Yet the place of Booker's baptism, where his timeline starts down its determined path and also meets his end, is in a river.

Reminded me the intro to Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40QwbYXop4Y

"Most people think time is like a river that flows swift and sure in one direction, but I have seen the face of time and I can tell you, they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm. You may wonder who I am and why I say this, sit down and I will tell you a tale like none which you have ever heard...."

 

[GoddyofAus]

This is the part that really has me salivating for more clarification. It presents a fascinating new way of looking at BS1 and 2.

Furthermore, I wonder what the meaning behind Infinite's ending entails for the 'shock' series going forward.

So many lighthouses leading to so many different types of cities, all built by a single man with a lot of ambition. The possibilities are pretty endless, if you think about it. Pretty much the only thing holding it back is Irrationals imagination.

I was pretty confused by the plot after I finished and I had a major boner when Rapture appeared so thank you to Chanchoong for that summary. It really helped. Fucking hell, what an amazing game. It is true that the plot seems a little convoluted, but that just goes to show that it can only be the players fault for not paying enough attention during the course of the game. Voxophones and examining EVERYTHING around you is crucial to understanding the plot effectively. Irrational will not hold your hand.

I'm really looking forward to the DLC now. Hopefully the backstory behind "A man" and "a woman" is expanded upon. Their origins seem to be the only loose end.

 

[scy]

There could be some Booker who moved to Russia instead of being baptized, then became Andrew Ryan when he returned to the USA

Shit, Russians age half as fast?

Also I understand that they had a story to tell and that the pre-baptism scene was the most dramatic place to have the drowning take place, but it is sort of funny that Elizabeth didn't take him back before Wounded Knee so he could not set a family's goddamn house on fire in any timeline.

Hey, fuck that family. You don't know, man. You just don't know.

 

[symphonask]

I don't think there will be another Bioshock game after this - the whole time playing it we will be wondering if we will travel to another universe/timeline. They can't pull the same trick in another game, and they don't have anywhere else to go after the events of Infinite.

Besides it's a great time to end it. New generation, new series.

 

[sikkinixx]

It's just a pity that basically everything from the Finkton Docks to Emporia feels like such a waste of time/go-for stretch. I guess it helps to illustrate the Vox and how they really aren't that much different than Cromstock, and the tears warping between dimensions but looking back the dragging pace feels so out of place.

Ultimately I feel like Columbia is wasted in the game. It could have been set on an island in Bermuda where Cromstock stock some nuclear bombs he stole from a tear and would rain down fire on the mountains of man from there and not much would change save the excuse the nano-particles that help float Columbia playing into discovering the tears. The religious/ethnic/class conflict stuff fades out quite rapidly after the Hall of Heroes and it becomes a heavy handed "LOOK WHAT MONSTERS PEOPLE WILL BECOME WHEN THEY FOLLOW AN IDEOLOGY WITH A STRONG LEADER" conflict between the Vox and Founders which in the end also feels ancillary to the time-bending sci-fi drama that ensues.

Also, the AD on his hand is for Anna DeWitt right? As penance for his actions of giving her away?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I don't think there will be another Bioshock game after this - the whole time playing it we will be wondering if we will travel to another universe/timeline. They can't pull the same trick in another game, and they don't have anywhere else to go after the events of Infinite.

Besides it's a great time to end it. New generation, new series.

I was really hoping for a SS2 reference. I mean it stretches the definition of lighthouse, but it'd work as a visual metaphor.

 

[monocle_wearing_hyrax]

I hope Bioshock doesn't turn into a yearly franchise. I really like both Ken Levine games but after that hopefully he moves on to work on something new.

 

[Apophenia Overload]

Considering it took six years to make this game, I doubt it could become a yearly franchise.

 

[LiK]

Levine just tweeted this about the musical covers in the game.

http://kotaku.com/here-are-all-of-bioshock-infinites-secret-musical-cove-461865411

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I hope Bioshock doesn't turn into a yearly franchise. I really like both Ken Levine games but after that hopefully he moves on to work on something new.

I'm not sure you can set a game in the same universe after this. If people were going into Infinite expecting duplicity, could you imagine what a sequel would have to do?

 

[JHall]

Could you refresh my memory of the wheelchair thing? I remember the sirenman jump scare, but can't remember exactly what happened before it

After you pass your second Boy of Silence, you walk through what looks like a hospital. A wheelchair slowly rolls out and it has Ben Franklin's head on it.

 

[GorillaJu]

Shit, Russians age half as fast?

Maybe he is Booker #95828443's son, born in Russia and escaped at a young age. Who knows? There are infinite possibilities in a multi-universe game world.

It is curious that Booker was able to activate the bathysphere, something only Andrew Ryan (and his descendants) should be able to do, don't you think?

 

[Apophenia Overload]

Levine just tweeted this about the musical covers in the game.

http://kotaku.com/here-are-all-of-bioshock-infinites-secret-musical-cove-461865411

What about the hidden voxophone hidden in the Edison bust on Monument Island that plays an old-timey version of "Call Me Maybe"?

 

[Stark]

Creepy as shit. Also after you open the door and turn around only to have a Boy of Silence standing right there, it made me jump.

These two things made me scream.

BoS sequence was really well done.

 

[forgeforsaken]

It is curious that Booker was able to activate the bathysphere, something only Andrew Ryan (and his descendants) should be able to do, don't you think?

I thought that was just the Vitachambers, but it's been a while.

 

[Incendiary]

I'm not sure you can set a game in the same universe after this. If people were going into Infinite expecting duplicity, could you imagine what a sequel would have to do?

I can't imagine there being another Bioshock after this. Maybe another "Shock" game, but Bioshock? They did city under the sea and city in the clouds. What else is there? I mean, that's just talking location-wise, not even including the implications of the story. Of course, the implications of the story mean there's always going to be a lighthouse involved if it's Bioshock.

 

[JHall]

Is it possible to miss that?

The only terrifying BoS moment was at that switchboard for the hospital and you're like AAAAAAAA

Miss what? Ben's Head?

It might be easy to miss Ben's head if you were running through.

 

[Stark]

I can't imagine there being another Bioshock after this. Maybe another "Shock" game, but Bioshock? They did city under the sea and city in the clouds. What else is there? I mean, that's just talking location-wise, not even including the implications of the story. Of course, the implications of the story mean there's always going to be a lighthouse involved if it's Bioshock.

Space.

 

[GorillaJu]

I can't imagine there being another Bioshock after this. Maybe another "Shock" game, but Bioshock? They did city under the sea and city in the clouds. What else is there? I mean, that's just talking location-wise, not even including the implications of the story. Of course, the implications of the story mean there's always going to be a lighthouse involved if it's Bioshock.

Indeed. Levine or his team could continue this thematically, but it just wouldn't be worth engaging a narrative again in a universe where you've essentially opened and closed infinity.

 

[symphonask]

Guys, let me blow your minds

what if

if

the next '-shock' game was set on land?

crazy, but it just might work

 

[Apophenia Overload]

Even crazier: what if it was set in the present?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Space.

System Shock 2.

 

[razgriz417]

o man, replaying now and just got the scene before battleship bay. "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt"...those feels when Booker is screaming at the voice asking what they are going to do with Anna...

 

[LiK]

Guys, let me blow your minds

what if

if

the next '-shock' game was set on land?

crazy, but it just might work

it would take place in NYC 1983

 

[Stark]

System Shock 2.

oh yeah...

 

[Sanjay]

EatChildren, how do you reconcile the ending post-credits? If you think Elizabeth is essentially ending herself by preemptively ending Comstock, then she would never have been born, thus the final ending couldn't take place.

This is why I think the baptism was an idea that Booker after Elizabeth was born, and that the version of events Elizabeth ultimately finds most desirable is one in which she is born still and her mother doesn't die.

This is how I see it, Elizabeth ends all other Elizabeth in other realities by the death of Booker, killing him at the baptist drowning. Seeing them all disappear except one. Now that one Elizabeth is the one where the tower was destroyed by songbird thus resulting in her having god like powers to bend space and time, like that Dr Manhattan dude, basically well powerful. It's a time paradox so you have to live with so I'm going with her being super powerful and only one existing after resting the timeline which was the Lutece's goal.

But now if all the Elizabeth's disappeared and its just Booker and Elizabeth as a baby going with the post credit, I would need to think more or maybe just go with time paradox, time reset mission accomplished and sleep well.

Oh wow, I just thought of another possible outcome while doing the two above:-

So all the Elizabeth's kill Booker, the one that gets baptist first, the one that goes to another timeline to steal Anna first but now he can't as hes dead so in theory the Booker that had his Anna stolen by the future now dead Comstock can't anymore as he is dead thus resulting in
Booker growing up with Anna. HAPPY ENDING! Hmm that makes sense and warms my heart. I'm going with that guys. PEACE OUT!

gWAD this great game.

 

[scy]

It is curious that Booker was able to activate the bathysphere, something only Andrew Ryan (and his descendants) should be able to do, don't you think?

There's an audio log from Bioshock that mentions the Bathysphere genetic lock was imprecise at best: Nearly everyone remotely close to related to Ryan OR his inner circle could utilize them.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Replayed the last chapter and then did a real quick start over to drink it all in.

So good.

So goddamned good.

It's funny how BS1 was all about "choice" in the gameplay and that was this big deal and then when BI was getting previewed it was like "Oh, that's abandoned? No big choice or consequences?"

And so I'm starting the game over and you get launched into this gigantic city and you're like "Well, that's a consequence."

It like took it out of the gameplay but the elevated into something so much more massive.

Also, don't feel bad at all about stealin' that Church silver. Pretty much mine anyway.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Fuck man, a whirlwind of thoughts are going through my head right now. The story is just so intricate in its design.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

There's an audio log from Bioshock that mentions the Bathysphere genetic lock was imprecise at best: Nearly everyone remotely close to related to Ryan OR his inner circle could utilize them.

I get the feeling that a lot of that bathysphere/Ryan talk is people reading too much into things. Elizabeth sits down and lets you pull the lever because they didn't want to work on a specific Elizabeth-pulling-bathysphere-lever animation.

The Ryan/Jack = Booker/Comstock parallels are most likely intentional, but I don't think that implication is meant to be literal.

 

[JHall]

So I started my 1999 mode play through without using dollar bill machines. I find this easier for some reason, probably because I know how to approach the different situations.

I got the achievement for killing a Handyman by only shooting his heart on 1999 mode. Dat sniper is so powerful.

 

[antitrop]

oh yeah...

Which, by the way, is very, very playable and graphically impressive with proper mods.

 

[kamicowzi]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet (I read a ton of posts, but attention span only holds out for so long when an idea pops up in my head, and if this is mentioned I apologize)....but the story never really ends...the game may end for us, but in the universe of Bioshock Infinite, the tale of Booker/Elizabeth/Comstock never ceases.

The Lucetes seek to break the circle, but Elizabeth and Booker play "May the Circle be Unbroken" together. I think that alludes to fact that somewhere deep inside both of them, they know this story will always play out. Even though we may think the whole Comstock thing is squashed by his drowning it isn't. That explains the after ending sequence....it is all just going to happen again.

I think the inclusion of the two actors performing the song with Ken is not only there to show the actors performing, but to hit on the importance of the song within the game...to draw your attention to the song after you have already seen the ending of the game.

We only played but one version of the story, and despite what we were shown at the end to make us believe that in some way we managed to "smother" Comstock, we didn't. It is going to play out continuously and what we did was for naught.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is really a story of Lutece discovering dimensional travel and just fucking everything up by "crossing the streams" so to speak, right?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

This is really a story of Lutece discovering dimensional travel and just fucking everything up by "crossing the streams" so to speak, right?

Pretty much.

I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet (I read a ton of posts, but attention span only holds out for so long when an idea pops up in my head, and if this is mentioned I apologize)....but the story never really ends...the game may end for us, but in the universe of Bioshock Infinite, the tale of Booker/Elizabeth/Comstock never ceases.

The Lucetes seek to break the circle, but Elizabeth and Booker play "May the Circle be Unbroken" together. I think that alludes to fact that somewhere deep inside both of them, they know this story will always play out. Even though we may think the whole Comstock thing is squashed by his drowning it isn't. That explains the after ending sequence....it is all just going to happen again.

I think the inclusion of the two actors performing the song with Ken is not only there to show the actors performing, but to hit on the importance of the song within the game...to draw your attention to the song after you have already seen the ending of the game.

We only played but one version of the story, and despite what we were shown at the end to make us believe that in some way we managed to "smother" Comstock, we didn't. It is going to play out continuously and what we did was for naught.

I'm not sure if I'd agree. For one thing, there's not real indication of when (a very important aspect of the story) the post-credits scene takes place. Given that it's still in that black-and-white dream world, I'd wager it's not meant to be some "but then everything still sucked" stinger.