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I played RPGs before FF7, quite a few of them actually, and still found the game to be incredible

It is really the setting and characters that make that world instantly involving. You know all that stuff how you need to "give a game a chance" and "get at least 10 hours in then its gets good!" well Final Fantasy 7 is the exact opposite of that, the game is from get-go interesting, no overlong tutorials, no campy slow start that is trying to sap all the fun out of the game. FF7 just starts blazing fast and the game first gives you and the characters a breather a few hours in where more of the backround story is revealed. In my opinion FF7 has perhaps the best beginning with Link to the Past to any video game Ive ever played, i just love the fact that Square threw the players into instant conflict and put them in a dangerous situation. Whereas many other RPGs have you start in some small village where you are looting chests and talking with random NPCs.

Almost the entire cast of characters are memorable, the music is second to none and the game has a interesting storyline, not just with the infamous villain but also the story of the main character, Cloud and what really happened with him. The main supporting cast of Barret, Tifa and Aeris are still popular characters that fans still remember.

It is a great game, you do not have to consider it the best RPG ever made, but it is certainly not "terrible", because if FF7 is terrible then every RPG ever made, east or west, is terrible.

 

[libregkd]

FFVII's story was a fun ride, music was phenomenal, and the Materia System was an interesting mechanic. And its certainly not nostalgia talking as I first completed it in 2005, I believe. Was also the 4th FF game I've ever played (In the wacky order of playing X, X-2, and VIII beforehand). Its by no means my favorite in the series, but still a pretty good game.

See, I think I'm in some weird minority that has enjoyed pretty much every mainline Final Fantasy in some shape or form. They all have their flaws (some more than others) and I obviously have my favorites (toss up between VI and XII) but I would recommend every single game in the series out for a person to try.

Spoiler

Except II. I hate II so much.

 

[ToxicAdam]

battle arena toshinden had cooler models, admit it.

It did, but horrible backgrounds.

 

[Spehornoob]

I think FFVII is actually done a disservice by being so many people's first RPG. One of the fun aspects of the game is how it tears apart some archetypes. Cloud, in his mental state, is a completely inappropriate person to try and save the world and fucks up pretty constantly. Aeris has the look of an ingenue, but she's quite a flirt, a tease, and is ultimately killed. Tifa's the opposite, with a typical tough girl style, but is probably the single most sensitive, kind character in the game, and is the one who truly cares for the protagonist. Sephiroth has the white haired pretty boy look that usually lends itself to misunderstood anti-villains, but he's completely monstrous (even though he's given a somewhat sympathetic backstory).

Unfortunately, in the compilation, they all fell into the archetypes they were meant to deconstruct.

 

[zruben]

It's one of those "you had to be there" kind of things.

yeah; I agree, it was more of a context thing. The whole "emo setting" was very 90's.

I played it in its moment (after playing all the major RPG's of the SNES), and I still loved FF7.
Now, in retrospective, it's not "that" great... it's average at least... the techological leap also helped, most of the people who played the game (included myself) were "wooow'd" by the graphics. Again... context is everything.

 

[Rad-]

It's the setting. One of the best in video game history.

 

[antitrop]

OK, I just beat the game for the first time in February and it was my first Final Fantasy. Besides Mario RPG games, it was my first JRPG. So my judgement is without many comparisons. I extremely enjoyed the game and it's made me want to play more classic RPGs. Things I liked.

This man appreciated Final Fantasy VII in 2013 like I did in 1997, except for the part about not being experienced in JRPGs. Nostalgia goggles my ass.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Errr, why did you play it to completion if you didn't like it? Didn't it click after 20 hours that you weren't having fun?

It wasn't horrible or bad. It was just mediocre... average and unextraordinary. I didn't say it was the worst game I've ever played, I said it was the worst game I've ever completed. It wasn't even remotely near being good, but it wasn't a chore to play... it was kind of just there.

FF7 was not anywhere near as good as FF6 or 9. But saying the soundtrack was bad is completely off the mark

I didn't say it was bad, I said it was good. I specifically said it was the only part I enjoyed. However, compared to VI, IX or X's soundtrack it's not THAT good. Still good enough, though.

This man appreciated Final Fantasy VII in 2013 like I did in 1997, except for the part about not being experienced in JRPGs. Nostalgia goggles my ass.

In his case the problem is lack of exposure to the genre. FFVII would be my fav JRPG too if it was the only one I'd ever played, of course...

 

[Woody Invincible]

It was the biggest of deals. My classmates and I weren't talking about anything else when I was in middle school.

We must have been classmates.

 

[legacyzero]

ppl with nostalgia goggles back in the 1997 would hate ff7

I meant these days.

I adore FF7.

 

[computers putin']

I think FFVII is actually done a disservice by being so many people's first RPG. One of the fun aspects of the game is how it tears apart some archetypes. Cloud, in his mental state, is a completely inappropriate person to try and save the world and fucks up pretty constantly. Aeris has the look of an ingenue, but she's quite a flirt, a tease, and is ultimately killed. Tifa's the opposite, with a typical tough girl style, but is probably the single most sensitive, kind character in the game, and is the one who truly cares for the protagonist. Sephiroth has the white haired pretty boy look that usually lends itself to misunderstood anti-villains, but he's completely monstrous (even though he's given a somewhat sympathetic backstory).

Unfortunately, in the compilation, they all fell into the archetypes they were meant to deconstruct.

some great points here, I completely agree.

 

[J-Rod]

It was pretty amazing for its time. Little things we take for granted these days like not being heavily censored seemed like a pretty big deal to me then.

 

[Anteater]

It did, but horrible backgrounds.

you're right, didn't really pay attention to the backgrounds

 

[Quackula]

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw someone genuinely say that FF7 was the greatest RPG ever.

Seriously, these days if you say you even like the game you're going against the grain.

 

[blizzardjesus]

It's the only game I came to hate, and refused to play it any further after Aerith died.

 

[Mesoian]

This man appreciated Final Fantasy VII in 2013 like I did in 1997. Nostalgia goggles my ass.

He also, literally, has played nothing else comparable.

FF7 was fun. It was a MASSIVE sprawling world, the materia system made everyone's playthrough's unique, there were a ton of secrets and the characters were genuinely interesting. It's too bad it has the laziest ending out of all of the final fantasy games, but it's a pretty amazing ride getting to that point.

I wish square would spend more times building worlds instead of trying to tell stories, because their writers have always been shit, but the worlds they've built have been interesting and engaging. 13's world is the first one that feels like it has no personality and they're trying REAL REAL hard to make you care about Lightning and why she's angry but then suddenly abruptly magically stops being angry, but that entire plotline is a fucking mess.

Mean, FF7, demigod wants to destroy the world because WHATEVER. More enjoyable.

 

[Cidd]

Good music
Good story
Simple but deep battle system
Big 3D world
Mini games
Materia System
Great characters
Lots of sidequests
.

fixed

Pretty much nailed it, it still remains my number favorite game and no this wasn't the first FF game I played all the NES/SNES versions, Chrono trigger, Secret of Mana, Phantasy Star etc.

And it tops them all imo.

DAT Soundtrack

 

[Cipherr]

People saying "it doesn't hold up" are actually talking about their own standards changing, which has little to do with the game itself. It's not a very good basis for discussion, honestly.

Well yeah, of course. I mean, thats what everyone generally always intends when they use the phrase "holds up". Its about whether something maintains the impact among the shifted tastes and standards a significant amount of time later.

I certainly am not trying to say that the actual game on the disk is different today from what it was 16 years ago. The game, is of course the same.

Yeeeeah, no. The only game that has dated horribly from these three you talk about in your post is Goldeneye. FFVII was far from my first JRPG and I'd played 3d games before OoT, yet I still think they are great (even today). And there are a lot of people who haven't played FFVII (& OoT) until recent years who have fallen in love with both games.

And theres plenty more people that play them today and wonder what the fuss is/was about... Que the OP. Its ok to have a different opinion. I gave mine, don't take it personally, but those games aged like ass IMO. Graphically, pace wise, gameplay, and especially the writing. Some cringeworthy stuff man. I respect their impact, I remember when those games were my most played titles.

But they can't stand today as they did back then. Thankfully, the industry has matured and gotten a lot better in many ways since then. Its been 13 or so years, I don't really think its all that surprising.

 

[Wiz]

It was a groundbreaking RPG in the West and gets infinite respect because of that.

RPG's weren't too hot outside of Japan before FFVII.

 

[sleepykyo]

FF6 was better anyway.

Relative to when it released the game looked beautiful, the materia junction was novel and knights of the round looked cool (the first time, then it just takes too long).

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Sephiroth has the white haired pretty boy look that usually lends itself to misunderstood anti-villains, but he's completely monstrous (even though he's given a somewhat sympathetic backstory).

? Sometimes I think you people didn't get it. Sephiroth wasn't bad at all, let alone monstrous... He was being controlled by Jenova. He's a brainless puppet acting out "someone" else's orders.

 

[SkyOdin]

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw someone genuinely say that FF7 was the greatest RPG ever.

Seriously, these days if you say you even like the game you're going against the grain.

It is strange. I can't help but feel that people are hating it because of periphery elements that they don't like, such as the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 stuff, and have let their memories of the actual game fade. Final Fantasy 7 itself is great, and is still one of the best Final Fantasy games.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think FFVII is actually done a disservice by being so many people's first RPG. One of the fun aspects of the game is how it tears apart some archetypes. Cloud, in his mental state, is a completely inappropriate person to try and save the world and fucks up pretty constantly. Aeris has the look of an ingenue, but she's quite a flirt, a tease, and is ultimately killed. Tifa's the opposite, with a typical tough girl style, but is probably the single most sensitive, kind character in the game, and is the one who truly cares for the protagonist. Sephiroth has the white haired pretty boy look that usually lends itself to misunderstood anti-villains, but he's completely monstrous (even though he's given a somewhat sympathetic backstory).

Unfortunately, in the compilation, they all fell into the archetypes they were meant to deconstruct.

It's funny how chaacters like Cloud and Barrett were almost making fun of or revealing the potential sadness of the "badass" stereotype and then FFXIII goes and has Snow presented as a major positive.

 

[FryHole]

Scanned the thread and couldn't see anyone linking to this yet (sorry if they have). A great article that I nod along in agreement to.

http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff07

Honestly, graphically, it still looks good to me. Backgrounds are great, basic 3D holds up ok. Music is superb. The crap translation just somehow manages to make shit even more mysterious and intriguing. Mostly though - ctrl+F "Strange and Wonderful Places" in that article. FFVII's world building is unmatched.

 

[Spehornoob]

some great points here, I completely agree.

Thankin' ya kindly. I think the Compilation stuff has really tinted people's memories of what the game actually *was*.

 

[Muffdraul]

I started playing RPGs with AD&D circa 1980, my first video game RPG was Tunnels of Doom on the TI994A, my first FF was FFIV in 1992, and the game that made me fall in love with the franchise and become a blubbering fanboy was FFVI in 1994.

And yet, FFVII is my favorite FF, my pick for "best in the series".

I was 27 when it came out, I wasn't some easily impressed little twerp who had never played a JRPG before. As much as I loved FFVI, it seemed like a cuddly little kiddie game after FFVII came out. It must seem tame as fuck today, but in 1997 FFVII was pretty damn edgy, and it definitely stood far and away from previous JRPGs because of that. It had a certain... I dunno what else to call it... a "coolness" factor that no other JRPG had up to then. The story might have seemed broken and overly convoluted, but after replaying it a couple of times, it all made sense. I think they made a pretty bold move of trusting the player to piece things together themselves to figure out the real story. As a result, a lot of people just dismiss it as nonsensical jibberish. One of my favorite things about FFVII was the ambiguous ending, and it really pisses me off that Square-Enix was willing to destroy that just so they could cash in.

Whatever. I haven't gotten into a forum argument on whether FFVII sucks or not in years. Posting in this thread alone is almost as nostalgia inducing as thinking about the game itself.

 

[anaron]

hideous, unremarkable trash, right?

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Final Fantasy 6 is still the best FF game

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

It is strange. I can't help but feel that people are hating it because of periphery elements that they don't like, such as the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 stuff, and have let their memories of the actual game fade. Final Fantasy 7 itself is great, and is still one of the best Final Fantasy games.

I have seen/played 0 of the compilation stuff and still thought it was incredibly mediocre. There's nothing "great" about it. VI did everything better 3 years earlier with half the hardware.

 

[JudgeN]

OK, I just beat the game for the first time in February and it was my first Final Fantasy. Besides Mario RPG games, it was my first JRPG. So my judgement is without many comparisons. I extremely enjoyed the game and it's made me want to play more classic RPGs. Things I liked.

- The whole beginning with Midgar felt like a game in itself. There was so much story, detail, music, etc..already in this amount of time that it felt like that was the game. Then, I was introduced to the overworld and things kept just getting better.

- Uematsu made a legendary soundtrack. There's reggae like music in the slums, the Native American sounding Cosmo Canyon, western themed Chocobo music, jazzy songs, straight up Classical music, etc... The whole time playing I was wrapped into the music and it reminded how well Ocarina of Time connected music with locations.

- Every character felt special and had their own backstories. I wanted to experiment with each one and felt a connection to them.

- The locations themselves were so varied from forests, beach resorts, floating theme park, slums, ranches, deserts, underwater areas, etc... Also, the overworld progressed slowly to where you had more freedom at every turn.

- Almost every single interior was delicately designed and felt connected with the outside world. This made the towns come alive even more.

- Tons of secrets and rewards exploring the nooks and crannies.

- Story was well awesome. Enough said

- I never felt like I was grinding through the story. I don't know too much about JRPGs, but the battle system was just perfect. I still enjoy Mario RPG style better because it's more interactive.

- I actually enjoyed the graphics because I appreciate gaming history. Also, it gave me a sense of being back in 1997 when I had a N64 instead of a PS1. It was like an alternate past for me in a way, and I could even feel nostalgia for a game I hadn't played back then. Through the graphics and music, I felt that same wonder again.

This is how I felt in 1998 when the PC version was released and I still feel the same about it now, especially when you talk about Midgar. Best opening zone EVER!!!!!!!

 

[lethial]

I think for a lot of people sephiroth and cloud were their first boy crushes.

 

[kswiston]

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw someone genuinely say that FF7 was the greatest RPG ever.

Seriously, these days if you say you even like the game you're going against the grain.

No. That is just confirmation bias that arises from a vocal minority who trumpets how bad they think the game is when given the chance. I have run the Essential RPG thread on GAF for 4 years now and FF7 always places in the overall top 10 with a number of people explicitly stating that it's their favourite jrpg of all time.


Final Fantasy VII tried a lot of new things with its story presentation and worldbuilding. Some of it worked, and some of it didn't. You could argue that the project's style as a whole was a little disjointed, especially when compared to the later PS1/PS2 games. CGI cutscenes differed drastically in quality, switching from chibi to more realistically proportioned charactered for little to no reason. The game world was also weirdly anachronistic. However, it's still clearly an ambitious game with memorable characters, even if you are playing for the first time today.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

purely hideous, unremarkable trash, right?

I hate to bash a fellow enlightened fan, but yeah... that's absolutely right. Fuck pre-rendered backgrounds, they suck... especially when they contrast so much with the actual gfx. Even in OoT I hated them. The first time they were used right was when REmake came out.

 

[Noi]

I have seen/played 0 of the compilation stuff and still thought it was incredibly mediocre. There's nothing "great" about it. VI did everything better 3 years earlier with half the hardware.

Almost every "dungeon" in FF6 is either a cave, has a cave inside it or has cave-like elements to it.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I played FFVII, FFVIII and FFIX at the same time (one behind the other of course) when a friend lend me his PSX with those and other games like MGS and the Resident Evils and Silent Hill (when he got the PS2, so not to much after some of this games releases).

FFIX was my favourite one from the three Finals, the music, the characters, the settings, the art...
Yeah, I think FFVII is overrated as fuck, so Im of the same opinion as the OP here.

I hate to bash a fellow enlightened fan, but yeah... that's absolutely right. Fuck pre-rendered backgrounds, they suck... especially when they contrast so much with the actual gfx. Even in OoT I hated them. The first time they were used right was when REmake came out.

Prerendered backgrounds worked very well in FFIX.

 

[RedSwirl]

It had a massive advertising campaign at the time. It also broadened the appeal for RPGs by being the first well-known RPG on a console not based on a typical fantasy setting. This allowed it to expose a lot of people to role playing games in general.

From what I can understand, to existing console RPG fans it was interesting to have one set in a futuristic city where the main antagonist is a corporation, not just some magical monster. For non-RPG fans at the time it was interesting to have a game like this with such a thick storyline that tried to be emotional. People also weren't used to a game being that cinematic at the time. Basically, FFVII was more or less the first RPG that seemed "hip" and "cool."

I think part of that was the appeal of a lot of PS1 franchises back in the day. Resident Evil's story may seem ridiculous today, but in the mid 90's it felt very complex and mature compared to what the standard was for Super NES games. This probably goes double for Metal Gear Solid.

 

[zruben]

hideous, unremarkable trash, right?[/QUOTE]

even with the pretty sceneries, the game has its flaws.

 

[Arklite]

Final Fantasy ratings in general are extremely divisive, not worth fretting over too much, especially when minds are made up on how great or bad something is.

OP names XII as great while it being one of the most controversial. I liked XII, but someone could start a thread with legit complaints of little character development, botched character focus, and a largely automated system for combat 'play' and then ask, "how could anyone like this bland, auto-playing shit?" I could come up with several reasons, but the beauty of the franchise is that each entry strives to re-invent parts of itself knowing full well it may not click with all players of previous games.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

You're talking about a time when Battle Arena Toshinden was considered amazing graphics.

And they were. Not even in the same league. BAT looked (and still looks) like heaven compared to FFVII.

 

[Spehornoob]

? Sometimes I think you people didn't get it. Sephiroth wasn't bad at all, let alone monstrous... He was being controlled by Jenova. He's a brainless puppet acting out "someone" else's orders.

I was always of the opinion that Sephiroth was more controlling/harnessing Jenova than the other way around. He went batshit after Niblheim and swore revenge on the world. His "mother" was a damn good way to achieve that

It's funny how chaacters like Cloud and Barrett were almost making fun of or revealing the potential sadness of the "badass" stereotype and then FFXIII goes and has Snow presented as a major positive.

I didn't even play XIII. I haven't enjoyed the series much lately. I prefer to go back and play the older ones. Really liked XII, though, and the XIV relaunch looks great.

 

[Skilletor]

The FF series is so easy in general that it's ridiculous to count it as a negative on one game and not point out how easy another is.

 

[Rinoa]

I think FFVII is actually done a disservice by being so many people's first RPG. One of the fun aspects of the game is how it tears apart some archetypes. Cloud, in his mental state, is a completely inappropriate person to try and save the world and fucks up pretty constantly. Aeris has the look of an ingenue, but she's quite a flirt, a tease, and is ultimately killed. Tifa's the opposite, with a typical tough girl style, but is probably the single most sensitive, kind character in the game, and is the one who truly cares for the protagonist. Sephiroth has the white haired pretty boy look that usually lends itself to misunderstood anti-villains, but he's completely monstrous (even though he's given a somewhat sympathetic backstory).

Unfortunately, in the compilation, they all fell into the archetypes they were meant to deconstruct.

This is so true, though Tifa in compilation is probably the only character to stay consistent through the movie and new entries.

And they were. Not even in the same league. BAT looked (and still looks) like heaven compared to FFVII.

Memories... I was so obsessed with Tracy because she seemed olive/dark skinned and so cool. I almost wanted to be a police officer!

 

[anaron]

I hate to bash a fellow enlightened fan, but yeah... that's absolutely right. Fuck pre-rendered backgrounds, they suck... especially when they contrast so much with the actual gfx. Even in OoT I hated them. The first time they were used right was when REmake came out.

But it makes up the entire setting, look and atmosphere of the game. I suppose I can understand disliking their usage due to the contrast, but the art direction and detail itself is undeniably beautiful and it should not be denied that on any other basis.

even with the pretty sceneries, the game has its flaw

of course it does, the field models look like coloured blocks sewn together. That being said, it really doesn't bother me due to their super deformed nature and the game never making a spectacle out of them.

 

[suzu]

Blew my mind when I was a kid (everything about it).

Not the best, but it's still a decent to good RPG nowadays. I don't understand some of the hate it gets from people.

 

[Oxigen_Waste]

Prerendered backgrounds worked very well in FFIX.

You are absolutely right, my bad. The thing with IX is that they finally understood how to make the models not feel like they were part of a different world than the backgrounds. And yes, IX is amazing, where VII and what I played of VIII are just... meh. IX is lovely. AND GORGEOUS!

 

[Manu]

There's nothing "great" about it.

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

 

[Muffdraul]

Final Fantasy VII tried a lot of new things with its story presentation and worldbuilding. Some of it worked, and some of it didn't. You could argue that the project's style as a whole was a little disjointed, especially when compared to the later PS2 games. CGI cutscenes differed drastically in quality, switching from chibi to more realistically proportioned charactered for little to no reason. The game world was also weirdly anachronistic. However, it's still clearly an ambitious game with memorable characters, even if you are playing for the first time today.

I think it's always been glossed over just how risky FFVII actually was at the time. Thinking back, it does seem like everyone who was into JRPGs (or at least into FF) back then was pretty positive towards it from the beginning when it was first unveiled in... I wanna say TGS Spring 1996? The only bitching I remember was about Square betraying Nintendo and getting into bed w/ Sony. But the game itself was so radically different from the norm at the time. DQ and all of the previous FFs up to then had stuck to the traditional "pseudo-medieval" motif up until then, though FFVI had taken a few baby steps away from it. FFVII easily could have blown up in their faces. If the gamer fanbase back then had the attitude that it has today, pretty sure everyone would have said "lol wtf is this shit this is not ff" and shat all over it when it came out.

 

[Mesoian]

I have seen/played 0 of the compilation stuff and still thought it was incredibly mediocre. There's nothing "great" about it. VI did everything better 3 years earlier with half the hardware.

...what?

Also yeah, Square squandering their legacy and releasing shovelware that no one wanted in order to try and pull in cash? WHODATHUNKIT?!?

Going back and looking at these pre-rendered backgrounds, Square is full of shit saying it would be too hard to remake FF7. They just want to remake it all and have the entire game look like Agni's Philosphy which sort of flies in the face of what FF7 actually is.

Just clean it up, make a few new models for battles and magic, uprez everything and put it out. Maybe redo some of the CG cutscenes. No voice acting, no 3D worlds, just keep it true to how the game was.

Though knowing square, they don't do it because after Sakaguchi left, they burned all their pre 1996 Final Fantasy assets in a huff in order to make room for FF8 concept art.

This is so true, though Tifa in compilation is probably the only character to stay consistent through the movie and new entries.

Because she barely says anything and just punches people.

 

[RedSwirl]

Might as well post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfrsvfcZ8ZE

 

[dc89]

- my first RPG
- Lots of memorable locations
- Midgar was amazing, I actually digged the half assed translation effort e.g the signs.
- I liked the characters

So yeah, FFVII will always have a special place in my heart.