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[xxracerxx]

Seems fine to me as I never play single player offline at all.

Yeah, fuck everyone else, I gots mine.

 

[IHaveCandy]

How would that even profit Microsoft? They don't even make that many first party games. Would publishers just toss them piles of exclusives for trying to kill used games or something?

Every used 360 game sold is $0 for publisher and Microsoft. Both would rather you buy new. With online passes growing in popularity, I suspect the largest group still buying used are those not playing online. So it makes some sense to either strong arm then to get with the program or don't buy the system. At the same time, those that play online but buy games used are now buying games new. More profits.

 

[emb]

Looking more and more like this holiday won't be so bad on my wallet. PS4 puts a nice dent in, but I'm still weary of both being even slightly worth considering owning.

Not sure about these rumors. Microsoft does try to really push forward with the online space, and they are apt to some anti consumer stuff, but surely they realize how bad of an idea this is... It's prolific rumor, but it's possible they all stem from a common, incorrect source somewhere down the line. If it is true, I wonder what kind of crazy draw they have to try to sell their system to people? Free console with subscription or something I'd guess.

It's not that I don't have Internet access, obviously. I have wifi, can run a cord, whatever. It's just how incredibly unappealing it is to think of being forced to connect to the Internet to do single player things. I don't care how much your vision is built around being social, I want no part of it. If I can't hook up my system, pop in a game and play it both now and in 20-25 years, it's just not worth it.

 

[BocoDragon]

Well MS, you'd better have some must-have content, because this sends me running to PS4.

 

[Buckethead]

Time to build a rig and go PC-only.

Fuck this Orwellian horseshit.

 

[RetroStu]

if by "many years" you mean the generation after this coming one, then yes, you are correct.

Well this generation will probably go on for upwards of 10 years so that counts as 'many years' really and i wouldn't be so sure about that anyway, its one thing forcing people to be connected but its another thing to force people to have to download what 200gig games in 10 years time, there will still be internet caps and internet speed won't be that much better in 10 years, the infrastructure is moving at a pretty slow speed at the moment.

 

[Shinta]

Because it disagrees with basic, fundamental business sense?

So say you have 10 customers with broadband and XBL, you'd get about 10 bucks a month out of there. You have 5 who don't have live or broadband but they'll buy a nextbox and games and controllers or what not to play with friends locally, you get about $6 from there a month.

From a max profitability standpoint, what sense does it make at all to leave that extra $30 on the table or possibly to Sony and limit yourself to that $50.

You or anybody else have failed to explain that....

Honestly, I think the reason it makes business sense is if Microsoft makes some deal to get increased profit from all game sales on their console from other publishers by blocking used game sales.

That, and the huge one is the cable box functionality. If it turns out to be true and they start pushing cable boxes with always online internet, and always connected/calibrated Kinect, they could revolutionize television advertising. Now companies could actually monitor the entire living room and tell if people are watching the ad, if there are couples, kids, one person, if they get up and leave the room and at what point in the commercial they leave the room, or monitor their interests, conversations and behavior in the living room for targeted advertising (food, furniture, gender targets, political affiliation, sports team affiliation, etc.). They could even make you interact with the ad with motion or voice to get it to stop, dramatically increasing the psychological impact of the ad. That ad space would sell for a lot more.

And they could just be making the bet that over the next 10 years, most people will get internet and won't care about it.

I think the whole thing revolves around the always online Kinect, and how it will be used in advertising and database collection.

It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft barely even cares about gaming, and sees hardcore console gaming vanishing in the next decade or twenty years. They're very possibly making a play for something bigger. The future of television, living rooms, advertising, data collection, privacy.

That's why I'll never get it. I don't want a sophisticated camera with full voice recognition pointed at my living room, always connected and always calibrated. Fuck that. For all we know, they could sell that data to defense contractors, government or private. Not hard to imagine the government being interested in tapping into a network of millions of cameras around the world pointed right at your living room with voice recording and a 24 hour connection to the internet.

 

[5amshift]

With a lot of this same exact rumor coming out, seems like it's going to be true..

 

[MasLegio]

Durango better be free if they are to pull this off.

No way in fucking hot smelting hell will a majority of people being online with their 360s now accept this. They should be happy if they get 10% of the 360 userbase to buy Durango with this "feature".

 

[BlackGoku03]

By the way I lived through Hurricane Sandy without power or heat for 15 days, so people crying to me about their router going out for an hour are hysterical to me. If you can't deal with being cut off from modern appliances for a couple of hours every now and then, then you have serious problems.

That's akin to the "second job" argument. C'mon man.

 

[Uno Venova]

By the way I lived through Hurricane Sandy without power or heat for 15 days, so people crying to me about their router going out for an hour are hysterical to me. If you can't deal with being cut off from modern appliances for a couple of hours every now and then, then you have serious problems.

I think you have a serious problem if you don't have an issue with not being able to use the products you bought when you want.

 

[Triple U]

Apple's profit over their lower marketshare explains it. Their really are better customers and focusing on them can be a smart move. Also see: the wii and their casual blue ocean "customers" and how they just stopped caring.

No, it doesnt. This isn't even remotely close to apple and their model of profiting off phone companies who are able to subsidize their hardware with contracts. Im still awaiting an actual breakdown of a model where this increases MS' profit.

 

[Gumbie]

Why the fuck is everyone getting so bent out of shape from an internet rumor? Wait to see if it's true then throw a shit fit. I swear some of you just can't wait to hit the panic button.

 

[MormaPope]

HOLLY SHIT...
I was thinking to buy the next xbox for halo... but hell no after this.

Did you read the article or OP? This is a rumor, from at least a year ago, and a source has said they don't know if it's changed but it's possible that there might be a always online requirement, along with info they believe is factual.

What we do know is Microsoft is trying to use "always connected" as a marketing term or strategy along with that being a possible design philosophy of the Durango. Some interpret "always connected" as a always online requirement, some think that's one of the key design choices made for the Durango.

The rumor in the OP is about an always online requirement, and other sources have said they don't know or don't think that system is in place. Yet people are deciding that rumors being thrown from anyone and everywhere is confirmation of what's in store for the Durango.

 

[Oppo]

What a lame argument. Right and before Kindle there was an expectation that you could go to a retail store, browse the shelves and buy books then resell or share those books.

Um. You need an ebook reader to read ebooks. That is a new expectation.

I'll ignore the rest of the screed since you missed that fundamental point.

Because it disagrees with basic, fundamental business sense?

So say you have 10 customers with broadband and XBL, you'd get about 10 bucks a month out of there. You have 5 who don't have live or broadband but they'll buy a nextbox and games and controllers or what not to play with friends locally, you get about $6 from there a month.

From a max profitability standpoint, what sense does it make at all to leave that extra $30 on the table or possibly to Sony and limit yourself to that $50.

You or anybody else have failed to explain that....

I've explained it several times.

Number of customers ≠ total profit. It's just that simple. Having more people does NOT mean you make more money. To quote Iwata, please understand.

Apple has less that 10% marketshare and is the most valuable company on the planet.

Which part of this is hard to understand?

No way in fucking hot smelting hell will a majority of people being online with their 360s now accept this. They should be happy if they get 10% of the 360 userbase to buy Durango with this "feature".

I don't have as much faith in the general console customer as you do. I hope you are right. But we'll see.

 

[Klocker]

You are incredibly optimistic if you think broadband in the US is going to improve so much in that period of time that publishers would be willing to forsake the brick and mortar crowd.

not all no, but those that don't have it by then are not their target consumers.

in fact, In NA, if you do not expect to be nor are always connected TODAY, I'd say you are not in the target market but could be soon.

I have been connected every day for 12 years and if I ever wake up and my devices are not connected, I'd be pissed as hell and would spend the rest of my day getting re-connected ... so, yea.

 

[Robot Pants]

This is suicide if true.

 

[krypt0nian]

No, it doesnt. This isn't even remotely close to apple and their model of profiting off phone companies who are able to subsidize their hardware with contracts. Im still awaiting an actual breakdown of a model where this increases MS' profit.

Their content, man. And yes is it explains the "better" customer model to a tee.

I've explained it several times.

Number of customers ≠ total profit. It's just that simple. Having more people does NOT mean you make more money. To quote Iwata, please understand.

Apple has less that 10% marketshare and is the most valuable company on the planet.

Which part of this is hard to understand?

This is pretty simple.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Why the fuck is everyone getting so bent out of shape from an internet rumor. Wait to see if it's true then throw a shit fit. I swear some of you just can't wait to hit the panic button.

Multiple online gaming sites independently quoting multiple inside sources with variations of the same rumour is a bit different to some dude on gamefaqs whose cousin like totally has the inside scoop

 

[Klocker]

This is suicide if true.

hardly, but people are free to think so :lol

this is one of those "up in arms" reactions that 12-18 mos from now are forgotten except to have the thread resurrected to be mocked in the future.

 

[Cat Party]

I never play without being connected to the net, so to be honest this wouldn't affect me if true. Still seems like an odd requirement. Then again, GAF has really gone crazy in opposing always online stuff. XBL is incredibly stable, so I don't fear that it would have problems like SimCity. If the rumor is true, I hope there's something to be gained as a result, other than just allowing MS more control.

 

[MYeager]

I still bet there's some kind of misunderstanding. For example, Xbox Live Indie Games require an always on connection, apparently because the content is technically unrated. Unless more specifics are given or until Microsoft announces something, it's still a little too soon to make any kind of judgement.

 

[Mooreberg]

By the way I lived through Hurricane Sandy without power or heat for 15 days, so people crying to me about their router going out for an hour are hysterical to me. If you can't deal with being cut off from modern appliances for a couple of hours every now and then, then you have serious problems.

Content and appliances are not the same thing. I wouldn't expect to be able to use my washing machine during a power outage. But I'd certainly expect to be able to take my bottle of Tide down to the laundromat that has power.

 

[Beer Monkey]

XBL is incredibly stable, so I don't fear that it would have problems like SimCity.

Actually XBL has had serious issues many times that range from hours to a few days. And that's without Anonymous targeting them, which will happen if they do this.

 

[Caramuru]

It's so stupid it can't be true.

 

[Triple U]

Um. You need an ebook reader to read ebooks. That is a new expectation.

I'll ignore the rest of the screed since you missed that fundamental point.


I've explained it several times.

Number of customers ≠ total profit. It's just that simple. Having more people does NOT mean you make more money. To quote Iwata, please understand.

Apple has less that 10% marketshare and is the most valuable company on the planet.

Which part of this is hard to understand?

Except it hasn't. You can repeat this ad nauseum till your wrists hurt but you haven't explained anything. I layed out a pretty easy to understand situation where this impedes there profits, and nobody has been able to address or counter it.

Show me some numbers and quit quoting empty statements.

 

[Oppo]

This is pretty simple.

I'm seriously confused as to why people don't understand this.

By the same logic Apple would have 90% marketshare.

Ok, just for you, Triple U: Here was my original post. If you could answer this on a point basis, maybe I can understand your argument better:

I'm surprised at how many people have such a hard time believing that this might be true.

Yes a big percentage (a large minority I believe, 30-40%) of current Xbox 360 players are not connecting on a regular basis.

That means those customers:

- cannot be advertised to
- do not buy digital games with any regularity (or at all)
- do not buy any DLC with any regularity (or at all)
- do not pay for Live Gold
- do not use any "value-add" services like renting movies or streaming music
- and yes, potentially could have "hacked" their xbox to play pirated games

So now how does that math look?

I have no trouble at all believing that MS has basically said, fuck those customers, they are not worth it. They buy the box for whatever premium (a pittance at first anyways) and then MS never sees them again as far as digital retail goes. They buy disc games and generate licensing down the line, and that's it.

Now contrast with the plethora of other devices that MS would consider "competing" with the Xbox console, at least for customer spare time, and how many of them basically require internet access: Apple TV? iPads/iPhones? Android tablets and phones? Rokus and Slingboxen and so forth?

It's a total no-brainer. Not only is it possible, frankly it's likely. Lose 30% of your previous barely-paying customers and convert the entire user base to 100% potential customers, with perfect stat tracking, and ad-serving, and connectivity.

Totally believable. And totally within Microsoft's corporate character to try it. That would be their idea of a bold move.

They can turn it off later if it really does hurt them (and I think it might, but not nearly to the extent that some are saying... crash the market, lol). I think they probably have already reeled in the used game component of this. But they will try to launch requiring an internet connection, you just watch.

It's just so ... them.

To clarify: I'm not defending this at all, and I'll be super pleased to be proven wrong, if so. It's a dick move, it's seriously anti-consumer. But unbelievable? Infeasible? No.

Make sense now?

 

[MYeager]

Multiple online gaming sites independently quoting multiple inside sources with variations of the same rumour is a bit different to some dude on gamefaqs whose cousin like totally has the inside scoop

Just like Xbox Pure.

 

[Klocker]

Content and appliances are not the same thing. I wouldn't expect to be able to use my washing machine during a power outage. But I'd certainly expect to be able to take my bottle of Tide down to the laundromat that has power.

now I agree that there has GOT to be some sort of offline play system that verifies content in the event of an outage... HAS to be, otherwise that is short sighted

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Then again, GAF has really gone crazy in opposing always online stuff. XBL is incredibly stable, so I don't fear that it would have problems like SimCity.

Are the people defending always online just utterly clueless how the internet actually works?

There are multiple possible points of failure between your personal house connection and an Xbox live server.

It's not "well, MS servers are okay, and I pay my bills, so everythings gravy forever!"

EDIT:

Just like Xbox Pure.

No, I think you will find "multiple" sources is the opposite of "a single source"

 

[Triple U]

Their content, man. And yes is it explains the "better" customer model to a tee.



This is pretty simple.

What?

So do you actually have anything or are you gonna keep dancing around it until I maybe shutup?

 

[Baconsammy]

Time to build a rig and go PC-only.

Fuck this Orwellian horseshit.

I'd do that again, but then end up just playing Sim City, World of Warcraft, and Diablo 3.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Why the fuck is everyone getting so bent out of shape from an internet rumor? Wait to see if it's true then throw a shit fit. I swear some of you just can't wait to hit the panic button.

Have you been following news for major devices over the past years? Most of everything that keeps coming from multiple reputable sources almost always ends up being true.

Look at every iphone / ipad leak.
Look at all the leaks prior to PS4 announcement.
Look at leaks pertaining to graphics cards etc..

Almost always the same when you have major sources saying the same thing.

At this point I would almost take this rumor as fact. I pray it's not true, but it can pretty much be confirmed at this point.

 

[Goldmund]

I don't understand why so many people dismiss Arthur Gies' attempt to assuage the masses. The guy is a bonafide Microsoft gaming division representative, he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Valkyria]

I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have an Internet connection. Nor do any places I've vacationed or visited in the last 5 years lack Wi-Fi.

Even most airlines have Wi-Fi now.

You have to be visiting some pretty remote places on the globe to be avoiding Internet access. In which case your new Xbox is more likely to die from the extreme elements before it even attempts to connect to the net. Microsoft isn't building a mobile device here. This is like complaining that your cable box needs to be connected to coax to be used.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

This is a joke post right? So much for geography and world knowledge.

 

[krypt0nian]

What?

So do you actually have anything or are you gonna keep dancing around it until I maybe shutup?

You're choosing not to see the accepted fact. I (nor nerfgun) didn't make this shit up. Keep on keepin on I guess.

Water is also wet. Would you like me to prove that with peer reviewed articles? LOL

I'm seriously confused as to why people don't understand this.

By the same logic Apple would have 90% marketshare.

Ok, just for you, Triple U: Here was my original post. If you could answer this on a point basis, maybe I can understand your argument better:



Make sense now?

People understand this and have for years. Triple is just being a forum poster.

 

[Takuya]

I don't understand why so many people dismiss Arthur Gies' attempt to assuage the masses. The guy is a bonafide Microsoft gaming division representative, he knows what he's talking about.

He is also full of bs for that same reason.

 

[Spongebob]

Like I've said previously before, Durango is looking like it will be a complete disaster.

 

[RoboPlato]

By the way I lived through Hurricane Sandy without power or heat for 15 days, so people crying to me about their router going out for an hour are hysterical to me. If you can't deal with being cut off from modern appliances for a couple of hours every now and then, then you have serious problems.

There's an enormous difference to not being able to use a product because of a natural disaster and not being able to use it because of some random, minor, daily occurrence.

 

[mr_nothin]

Want to know how they're gonna be able to still sell millions and be successful even while forcing an Internet connection?

Sell the console for $99 (hell, even $199) and force a 2 year contract with Comcast./Verizon/AT&T. Problem solved! (For 2 years at least....)

Sells like hot cakes!

 

[RoyalFool]

I'm pretty sure I remember some Microsoft chappy say they had a 3 generation plan back when people mocked how poorly the original xbox was selling, something about the first xbox making a loss to break into the market, the second one becoming market leader by initially selling at a loss and then breaking even by end of life - then the third one, is the one they told all the investors would rake in the cash. I'm not sure they really got into the position they need to be in before they can start screwing us over and having us accept it, Sony seem to understand what I'm wanting but everything about Durango sounds like it's Microsoft trying to sell me what they want me to buy. Stupid Kinect sensor (sold at a profit from day 1) and forced online subscription fee to play the system.

I doubt it'll be quite that bad, but it's worrying that the only leaks we are hearing are either shitty ideas or how it's not as powerful as the PS4.

 

[Mooreberg]

Comparisons between the console business and cell carriers subsidizing billions of dollars worth of handsets don't mean much until something like that $99 Xbox 360 (with $14.99 / mo. XBL charge) pilot program becomes a widespread success. That would be the point at which Microsoft could focus on only catering to "whales" or whatever the term is for frequent spenders in gaming. And even that wouldn't explain why somebody would want to lose access to a game when there are networking issues.

 

[crazygambit]

Because it disagrees with basic, fundamental business sense?

So say you have 10 customers with broadband and XBL, you'd get about 10 bucks a month out of there. You have 5 who don't have live or broadband but they'll buy a nextbox and games and controllers or what not to play with friends locally, you get about $6 from there a month.

From a max profitability standpoint, what sense does it make at all to leave that extra $30 on the table or possibly to Sony and limit yourself to that $50.

You or anybody else have failed to explain that....

Because (at least the first few years) they sell the console at a loss. So the guys that don't have a connection and buy say only one game a year are actually making MS lose money. Simple enough for you?

 

[Hex]

Or a connection at all, for that matter.

It's why the concept of always-online baffles me.

Who it would suck the most for is fighting game community folks.
Alot of places where events are do not have connections enough for every console.

 

[NullPointer]

By the way I lived through Hurricane Sandy without power or heat for 15 days, so people crying to me about their router going out for an hour are hysterical to me. If you can't deal with being cut off from modern appliances for a couple of hours every now and then, then you have serious problems.

I don't think anybody is complaining about an "always powered by electricity" requirement. But hey, maybe I missed that post.

 

[DigitalOp]

Honestly, I think the reason it makes business sense is if Microsoft makes some deal to get increased profit from all game sales on their console from other publishers by blocking used game sales.

That, and the huge one is the cable box functionality. If it turns out to be true and they start pushing cable boxes with always online internet, and always connected/calibrated Kinect, they could revolutionize television advertising. Now companies could actually monitor the entire living room and tell if people are watching the ad, if there are couples, kids, one person, if they get up and leave the room and at what point in the commercial they leave the room, or monitor their interests, conversations and behavior in the living room for targeted advertising (food, furniture, gender targets, political affiliation, sports team affiliation, etc.). They could even make you interact with the ad with motion or voice to get it to stop, dramatically increasing the psychological impact of the ad. That ad space would sell for a lot more.

And they could just be making the bet that over the next 10 years, most people will get internet and won't care about it.

I think the whole thing revolves around the always online Kinect, and how it will be used in advertising and database collection.

It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft barely even cares about gaming, and sees hardcore console gaming vanishing in the next decade or twenty years. They're very possibly making a play for something bigger. The future of television, living rooms, advertising, data collection, privacy.

You're pretty damn astute sir.

but no, no, no, fucking no.

I see your prediction as very plausible. And that's what scares me the most. Microsoft going through with this shit...... and winning

 

[I H8 Memes]

I agree with everyone else that this is very unlikely to be true. What benefit would this be to MS? The only way this would make sense is if it was used to prevent used games from working and allowed them to secure exclusive deals from 3rd party companies and right now there is no indication of that.

 

[Nemic77]

I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have an Internet connection. Nor do any places I've vacationed or visited in the last 5 years lack Wi-Fi.

Even most airlines have Wi-Fi now.

You have to be visiting some pretty remote places on the globe to be avoiding Internet access. In which case your new Xbox is more likely to die from the extreme elements before it even attempts to connect to the net. Microsoft isn't building a mobile device here. This is like complaining that your cable box needs to be connected to coax to be used.

I'm really having a hard time understanding how you are missing the point here. It's not about NOT having internet at all. It's about all the possible ISP dependent failures that can fall upon the customers at any time.

How can you defend not being able to enjoy something you paid for, that has no reason reason to require an internet? For example, why should I need to have internet available when I want to play a single player game?

I've lost count of the times where I find myself without internet and yet I am able to pass time by playing a single player game offline (oh wow so backwards).

 

[7he Talon]

There's no way this can be true. Microsoft isn't that dumb.

 

[Taco_Human]

So how would it work out the box if someone was to never take it online the moment it comes out the box new?