Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]

I'm not sure there is any correlation between the power of a console, it's success in the marketplace, and the financial position of the manufacturer.

My initial inference had more to do with the fact that before all the rumors of both console's architecture were released, most had assumed because of Sony's financial position they would not be able to produce a more powerful console. Most believed that Microsoft being in a much better financial situation would allow them to go all out and release a technical behemoth. Its just interesting to now see that fortunes have allegedly changed.

Because not all the company's assets are for their gaming division?

Well I'm aware of that, but its not like Microsoft has THAT many other divisions outside of Windows and Xbox Entertainment (compared to say, Sony). The Xbox brand is probably by far their most important and impressive hardware asset (isn't it basically the only one?), so I'm sure they are investing a lot into it to make it a huge success.
 
I hope Dean Takahashi is writing another behind-the-scenes book on the next Xbox, because everything we're hearing - even if only 10% of it is true - makes it sound pretty entertaining.
 
Rumors put the Durango at $500 with lesser tech. The specs aren't low because they don't have money... The specs are low because we don't want to buy a $600 or $700 console. Kinect wasn't cheap. Kinect 2 is most likely even more expensive.
 
You aren't reading the stock values correctly. Sony and Microsoft don't have the same number of shares outstanding.

The formula is Stock Price * Number of Shares = Market Capitalization

So Microsoft is 32.61 * 8.35B = 272.33 Billion
Sony is 16.56 * 1B = 16.56 Billion

Microsoft isn't twice as big as Sony, it's roughly 16 times as big.



No.

Microsoft profits increase to over $6 billion in Q3 2013 despite flat Windows revenue.

This is why I stated ages ago that MS will have thrown many money hats for exclusives for next Gen. Because they can afford to. More so now than at the launch of their last 2 consoles.

Combined with the rumour of no used games, there was always going to be exclusives.
 
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Holy shit :lol
 
Rumors put the Durango at $500 with lesser tech. The specs aren't low because they don't have money... The specs are low because we don't want to buy a $600 or $700 console. Kinect wasn't cheap. Kinect 2 is most likely even more expensive.

Well, the specs are't low, not as Wii U specs, and they have basically the same technology (DX11, SM5, etc) than PS4, just less power and slower ram.
 
My initial inference had more to do with the fact that before all the rumors of both console's architecture were released, most had assumed because of Sony's financial position they would not be able to produce a more powerful console. Most believed that Microsoft being in a much better financial situation would allow them to go all out and release a technical behemoth. Its just interesting to now see that fortunes have allegedly changed.
.

Fair enough - I think it was always unrealistic to believe that Sony were not going to release a technical powerhouse. Even less believable that Microsoft would somehow go nuts and release a monster just because they were financially capable of doing so.

Most of the reasonable chatter I witnessed on the forum - dealt with the fact that Sony would not go with a unique architecture again (and they could not afford to) - and that they would likely go for a reasonably priced machine using PC architecture or off-the-shelf parts. Outside of the 8GB surprise, I think that's more or less come about.
 
Why do many people assume that the PS4 will not push for the living room again. Remember "It does everything"? Sony was smart to present it in the unveiling as a gaming device as far as this forum is concerned. But, I fully expect my PS4 to gobble up every app and service it can just like Microsoft.

People need to realize that adding entertainment value to our devices is a must. Do you not realize that sales the last couple of years for BOTH devices were propped up by such capabilities?

This.

The reality is that these consoles are entertainment consoles, today. More than half of the time people spend on the 360 is in non-game entertainment (Netflix, HBO Go, etc). PS3 is even the most used Netflix player I believe. This is a market Sony should not ignore.

Sony has just been very focused in their marketing by only showing off things that matter to the core, and ignoring everything else to start. I fully expect them to unveil their broader strategy at E3 though.
 
Rumors put the Durango at $500 with lesser tech. The specs aren't low because they don't have money... The specs are low because we don't want to buy a $600 or $700 console. Kinect wasn't cheap. Kinect 2 is most likely even more expensive.

Pretty much this. If the Kinect truly is being bundled with every Xbox, they'll have to find a way to keep the overall price reasonable. I'm assuming compromises had to be made to the overall architecture in order to accomodate the full capabilities of the Kinect.
 
Im confused... I assumed that Xbox general quietness the last year (no huge exclusives outside of Halo 4 or large marketing pushes) was them prepping for next gen... what is happening over there?

EDIT: I was hoping to see something crazy like the Gears reveal was for 360
 
Woooooooowwwwwwwwww!

MS gets Respawn, Fallout, and Elderscrolls! And a 6 million+ selling franchise means nothing at all! I've heard everything. Is GTA and COD next?

You're right, if it's sold in the past, it will sell in the future. Like Medal of Honor. Or NBA Live. Or Megaman. Or...

FF XIII took forever to make and disappointed, XIV was a total disaster, and Versus has turned into a punchline. I don't think it's irrelevant yet, but it used to mean everything. To pretend like it CAN'T fall is ignoring the fact that it already has.
 
My initial inference had more to do with the fact that before all the rumors of both console's architecture were released, most had assumed because of Sony's financial position they would not be able to produce a more powerful console. Most believed that Microsoft being in a much better financial situation would allow them to go all out and release a technical behemoth. Its just interesting to now see that fortunes have allegedly changed.



Well I'm aware of that, but its not like Microsoft has THAT many other divisions outside of Windows and Xbox Entertainment (compared to say, Sony). The Xbox brand is probably by far their most important and impressive hardware asset (isn't it basically the only one?), so I'm sure they are investing a lot into it to make it a huge success.

As far as hardware they have the side that deals with 3rd party Windows Phone hardware and certification, also Surface, (Zune lol R.I.P.), Xbox... And whatever R&D for it.
 
My initial inference had more to do with the fact that before all the rumors of both console's architecture were released, most had assumed because of Sony's financial position they would not be able to produce a more powerful console. Most believed that Microsoft being in a much better financial situation would allow them to go all out and release a technical behemoth. Its just interesting to now see that fortunes have allegedly changed.



Well I'm aware of that, but its not like Microsoft has THAT many other divisions outside of Windows and Xbox Entertainment (compared to say, Sony). The Xbox brand is probably by far their most important and impressive hardware asset (isn't it basically the only one?), so I'm sure they are investing a lot into it to make it a huge success.

Microsoft has 5 main divisions.

Windows, Server and Tools, Online Services Division (Bing), Microsoft Buisness (Office) and Entertainment and Devices (Xbox).

2012 Revenues

Windows 18.3B
Server and Tools 18.7B
Bing 2.8B
Office 23.9B
Xbox 9.5B

In 2012 Microsoft had 73.7 billion dollars in revenue. Xbox accounted for 9.5 Billion of that or 13% of total revenue. The differences in profits are even more drastic. The only division that adds less to Microsofts bottom line than Xbox is Bing, which loses insane amounts of money (-8.1 Billion last year).

Numbers from here.

Xbox is a huge business, at this point Microsoft is only interested in Billion Dollar Businesses, but it is dwarfed in scale by the rest of Microsoft. I think people have just forgotten how absolutely massive Microsoft is over the last decade or so.

This is why I stated ages ago that MS will have thrown many money hats for exclusives for next Gen. Because they can afford to. More so now than at the launch of their last 2 consoles.

Combined with the rumour of no used games, there was always going to be exclusives.

They can only go so far down that road. Investors won't take too kindly to them dumping too much money into Xbox. Investors are assholes like that.
 
Im confused... I assumed that Xbox general quietness the last year (no huge exclusives outside of Halo 4 or large marketing pushes) was them prepping for next gen... what is happening over there?

EDIT: I was hoping to see something crazy like the Gears reveal was for 360

Maybe we will know at 21? Sometimes, maybe rarely, rumors are false or outdated...
 
Rumors put the Durango at $500 with lesser tech. The specs aren't low because they don't have money... The specs are low because we don't want to buy a $600 or $700 console. Kinect wasn't cheap. Kinect 2 is most likely even more expensive.

Kinect was pretty cheap. It was estimated at the time of launch the components cost about $50.
 
You aren't reading the stock values correctly. Sony and Microsoft don't have the same number of shares outstanding.

The formula is Stock Price * Number of Shares = Market Capitalization

So Microsoft is 32.61 * 8.35B = 272.33 Billion
Sony is 16.56 * 1B = 16.56 Billion

Microsoft isn't twice as big as Sony, it's roughly 16 times as big.

I wasn't claiming that Microsoft was twice as big as Sony (or any size for that matter), I was only making the basic observation that they had twice the stock value.
 
I think you're twice wrong here. For one, these foggy rumors get repeated so often that they take on the weight of truth. By tomorrow, people will be altering that PS3 has no game comic and posting it across reddit. Take the Orth debacle. If the narrative hadn't been constructed already, one idiot opening his big mouth on the internet wouldn't have been taken as 'OMG CONFIRMED'. So much that we started seeing controlled leaks via Verge and Polygon since then that help quell some of the more toxic rumors.

For another, you underestimate how loud and obnoxious the very passionate fans are, and the strength of a good meme. 2-3 weeks after the Orth thing I had colleagues come up to me and give their own very twisted take on always-online Xbox and Orth. They're not gaffers, they don't read Kotaku, but they got the news anyway. Not only that, but they were disseminating their (incorrect) version of facts to THEIR even less-hardcore (but console-buying) gamer friends.

Microsoft has done a pretty bad job of controlling the message via back channels. Until recently, most 'news' was bad, or at least taken in the worst possible light. On the other hand, the tone changed considerably once the Verge/Polygon started leaking out info, particularly regarding always online (it's still very confusing, since no one can agree on what the term means, but it's better than it was).*

*Hell, good spin can completely alter how reality is perceived. Sony did a great job selling the PS3/CELL's technology, to the point that to this day you have enthusiasts insisting that the PS3 is more powerful.

I disagree, but I can't really counter your personal experiences with anything but my own. 99% of my friends didn't know about the new Xbox until they either saw the dashboard ad (those are really paying off for MS right now by the way in free publicity alone) or me telling them about. I know one or two people who knew about it beforehand, but they're people who check out sites like ign, but not super-niche stuff like a video game forum.

Most people are going to have no expectations except for "okay, so it's a 360 that looks better" which is probably mostly true. They're not going to learn about any of the features until that live-stream, the next wave of ads on the 360's dashboard, or when they actually bring the console home in November.

I think everyone's jumping the gun because people like negativity, and because a lot of people prefer Sony or Nintendo to Microsoft. There's nothing wrong with that, but a lot of the general public doesn't feel that way. Maybe there's loyalty to Nintendo stuff, but most people just want the console that their friends are on, and has interesting games and features.

I just think it's funny because this will all be a distant memory come May 22nd. There will still be negativity, but actual founded negativity instead of this floaty, nebulous stuff we have to hear from the blogging sites every other day, which usually sounds like 1 part fact (well, as fact as rumors go) and 2 parts conjecture based on the blogger's own personal biases or interests


It's not about the studio, its about the publisher. This deal isn't between an exclusive publisher and a little upstart studio in desperate need of a publisher and financial support. Its a deal between two behemoth companies: MS and EA. Any profit-driven company, and especially EA would never cut themselves out of half (or more) of the potential sales of a title unless they were very, very well compensated for it monetarily.

That's simply not true. There are more things in business than short-term revenue gains, one being establishing relationships with other power players in the field. MS and EA don't really compete all that much. Sure, Halo might but heads up against a Battlefield or something, but it benefits EA to garner a strong relationship with Microsoft. I'm sure there were some sort of deals made; maybe free advertising, maybe just cash. The difference here is that Microsoft is taking a gamble as well on the IP, just as they took a gamble on Gears of War.

I'm not saying Microsoft isn't paying EA, I'm just saying it's not as simple as them cutting a check and being off on their merry way.
 
I wasn't claiming that Microsoft was twice as big as Sony (or any size for that matter), I was only making the basic observation that they had twice the stock value.

My point was that they don't actually have twice the stock value. They have 16 times the stock value. A single share of Berkshire Hathaway stock is worth $159,700.00 Stock value has as much to do with the amount of shares available as it does with the value of an individual share.

Sorry if it seems I am picking on you, this is just a common misconception that bothers me.
 
I wasn't claiming that Microsoft was twice as big as Sony (or any size for that matter), I was only making the basic observation that they had twice the stock value.

Which is a meaningless comparison unless you multiply by the number of shares...

For example, Google is currently trading at 819.06 per share. Microsoft is at 32.61. However, Microsoft has the larger market capitalization because they have 8.35 billion shares, compared to 331.77 million shares for Google, giving you the actual values you can compare (272.33B for MS, 271.74B for Google).
 
It was sarcasm. I have no idea why he thinks those are potential exclusives or even how they're much more important than final fantasy.

does final fantasy matter at this point ? hasn't one of them been in development for like 9 years now ?


I doubt MS will get all those titles as exclusives but if they are able to it would be a blow to the ps4 in the west.
 
Microsoft has 5 main divisions.

Windows, Server and Tools, Online Services Division (Bing), Microsoft Buisness (Office) and Entertainment and Devices (Xbox).

2012 Revenues

Windows 18.3B
Server and Tools 18.7B
Bing 2.8B
Office 23.9B
Xbox 9.5B

In 2012 Microsoft had 73.7 billion dollars in revenue. Xbox accounted for 9.5 Billion of that or 13% of total revenue. The differences in profits are even more drastic. The only division that adds less to Microsofts bottom line than Xbox is Bing, which loses insane amounts of money (-8.1 Billion last year).

Numbers from here.

Xbox is a huge business, at this point Microsoft is only interested in Billion Dollar Businesses, but it is dwarfed in scale by the rest of Microsoft. I think people have just forgotten how absolutely massive Microsoft is over the last decade or so.

That's why I pointed out that Xbox was their most important and impressive HARDWARE asset. Every other division is focused mainly on the software side. I'm aware of how big Microsoft is, and how their Xbox division pales in comparison revenue-wise to their other more prominent divisions, but that doesn't obviously change the fact that they want the Xbox brand to be a huge success, and I would assume are willing to invest a good deal of money to make sure that happens.
 
My point was that they don't actually have twice the stock value. They have 16 times the stock value. A single share of Berkshire Hathaway stock is worth $159,700.00 Stock value has as much to do with the amount of shares available as it does with the value of an individual share.

Sorry if it seems I am picking on you, this is just a common misconception that bothers me.

Which is a meaningless comparison unless you multiply by the number of shares...

For example, Google is currently trading at 819.06 per share. Microsoft is at 32.61. However, Microsoft has the larger market capitalization because they have 8.35 billion shares, compared to 331.77 million shares for Google, giving you the actual values you can compare (272.33B for MS, 271.74B for Google).

No worries, rookie mistake on my part.
 
What a fascinating generation we're in now, I love how quickly things change in this industry! Nintendo and Microsoft, winners of last gen, look like they're in dire straights! PS4 for the future, that's how I see things. Good for them.
 
I highly doubt that i will be $500,$400 is more likely,maybe this time doesn't have $300 core bundle like 360

I'd agree with you, but Paul Thurrott is very trustworthy. He said he knew of a 500$/300$+subscription plan for this holiday, so that's what I expect.

I still think it's going to be 400$, but we'll see. Here's to hoping!
 
Im confused... I assumed that Xbox general quietness the last year (no huge exclusives outside of Halo 4 or large marketing pushes) was them prepping for next gen... what is happening over there?

EDIT: I was hoping to see something crazy like the Gears reveal was for 360

Maybe they were aiming for 2014 and Sony caught them early? There are reasons why 2014 would make sense, like stacked DDR3. Pächter always expected next gen to launch in 2014.

As for Paul Thurrot: He is known to be chatty, they can easily use him and feed him false information to blindside Sony on pricing.
 
Pretty much this. If the Kinect truly is being bundled with every Xbox, they'll have to find a way to keep the overall price reasonable. I'm assuming compromises had to be made to the overall architecture in order to accomodate the full capabilities of the Kinect.



The difference in the chips is likely a few dollars an doesn't make up for the cost of a whole Kinect?
 
What a fascinating generation we're in now, I love how quickly things change in this industry! Nintendo and Microsoft, winners of last gen, look like they're in dire straights! PS4 for the future, that's how I see things. Good for them.

A massive oversimplification and generalisation.

It's important to keep things relative. Microsoft - if rumours are to be believed - have some work to do (much of which the broader audience will never even notice or care about). Yet, they could release several failed consoles and keep humming along. I'm not sure that qualifies for 'dire straghts' given the relative financial performance of Sony/Nintendo as competitors.

I'll give you that it is a fascinating generation - blows my mind just how much money is blown/wasted/burned/earned based on a questionable decision made months and months ago.
 
I'd agree with you, but Paul Thurrott is very trustworthy. He said he knew of a 500$/300$+subscription plan for this holiday, so that's what I expect.

I still think it's going to be 400$, but we'll see. Here's to hoping!
Actually even he is very trustworthy,about price will still be guess,because it can change easily and i think MS will wait Sony announce PS4 price first

Don't think they already decided price at this moment
 
My initial inference had more to do with the fact that before all the rumors of both console's architecture were released, most had assumed because of Sony's financial position they would not be able to produce a more powerful console. Most believed that Microsoft being in a much better financial situation would allow them to go all out and release a technical behemoth. Its just interesting to now see that fortunes have allegedly changed.



Well I'm aware of that, but its not like Microsoft has THAT many other divisions outside of Windows and Xbox Entertainment (compared to say, Sony). The Xbox brand is probably by far their most important and impressive hardware asset (isn't it basically the only one?), so I'm sure they are investing a lot into it to make it a huge success.

No need to unnecessarily sink money.

The most powerful console rarely winds up with the most market share. As long as its powerful enough.

This Gen more than any other, it won't just be games that gets the sales. Both Sony and Microsoft know this.

Both also know the hardcore gamer/early adopter is who you cater to early on.
 
Im confused... I assumed that Xbox general quietness the last year (no huge exclusives outside of Halo 4 or large marketing pushes) was them prepping for next gen... what is happening over there?

EDIT: I was hoping to see something crazy like the Gears reveal was for 360

Sure Gears was revealed, but it wasnt released until a year after launch. I'm sure Microsoft will have plenty of show reels of upcoming games on hand at their unveiling and E3.
 
No need to unnecessarily sink money.

The most powerful console rarely winds up with the most market share. As long as its powerful enough.

This Gen more than any other, it won't just be games that gets the sales. Both Sony and Microsoft know this.

Both also know the hardcore gamer/early adopter is who you cater to early on.

That's why Kinect 2.0 is included in the box, for them hardcore...wait.
 
Get ready for some rushed out games full of bugs and not showing what the nextbox could do.If they push EA to rush then it's Simcity again...
At least Nintendo simply won't rush anything so it gets done correctly!
 
I'm not sure why this discussion has turned to share prices and market caps; but, I don't think anyone should really expect either Microsoft or Sony to heavily subsidize their gaming segments going forward regardless of how much they could spend on making a powerful box or moneyhatting every third party imaginable.

Microsoft probably could moneyhat something like Call of Duty. But the cost would be so monumental that it wouldn't be remotely worth it.
 
I'm not sure why this discussion has turned to share prices and market caps; but, I don't think anyone should really expect either Microsoft or Sony to heavily subsidize their gaming segments going forward regardless of how much they could spend on making a powerful box or moneyhatting every third party imaginable.

Microsoft probably could moneyhat something like Call of Duty. But the cost would be so monumental that it wouldn't be remotely worth it.

I agree with everything - though I suspect we'll see some fairly surprising exclusives announced, likely as a direct result of Microsoft spending big. Time will tell.

Imagine if they did net COD though? I'm not sure the Internet would cope.
 
Mods, if this offends you, please tell me to delete this shit, the bird can't take another ban.


A few months ago, I spoke to someone familiar with the situation over at MS.

I kept pandering him for performance numbers and how well it translates into what we see on screen. I wanted to know if anything had changed from the leaked specs we had in the original PDF floating around.

A week after the PS4 press conference he cracked and admitted that beta kits were running hotter than they wanted. He claimed the teams is experiencing headaches trying to get all the pieces to fit together in a timely fashion. The last thing he told me was, "Performance, at this moment, is the least of our concerns."

wow!!

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