DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!

For folks who are concerned with 720p v.s. 1080p, how many of you have a TV larger than 50in? Anything under 50 and the difference is negligible according to most experts.

"Generally speaking, if you sit more than 10 feet away from your TV, and your display isn’t bigger than 50 inches diagonally, you won’t be able to tell the difference between 720 and 1080."

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...rence-between-hdtv-resolutions/#ixzz2WflWrtfm

"We still believe that when you're dealing with TVs 50 inches and smaller, the added resolution has only a very minor impact on picture quality."

http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/
 
Papacheeks(GRPodcast) said:
Seriously do what?

The last of us, is 720p, and run's around 30 fps? Does that make it shit?

If it's being touted as an amazing game, which it is, does it matter to you that much?
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Well you post about 30FPS being better to show off the details of a characters walk was laughable. A game can be good at 30FPS but what you said was ridiculous.
 
Futurevoid said:
The E3 build of Drive Club was said to be at about 35% complete, no? It's kind of strange to see people are going ape shit about the rough state of a game that's sitting at 35% complete.

Not to mention that final framerate optimizations are usually done at the tail end of development from my understanding. Way too early to worry.
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The game is due in 6 months, looks worse and runs at half the frame rate of it's competitor, whilst being on superior hardware.

Theres no reason not to be disappointed.
 
strata8 said:
Those of you arguing for 720p...

720vs1080.png


1080p literally has more than twice the detail. Even with AA you can't even come close to recovering all of that.
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Actually, 1080p with no AA looks like ass (and could be argued to capture fewer details) compared to e.g. 720p with 4xSGSSAA.

The problem with all these conversations is that people only argue about "with AA" and "without AA", ignoring the incredible difference between something like FXAA and high-sample sparse grid supersampling.
 
PairOfFilthySocks said:
Can someone please point out the last time a game's preview differed in any significant way to the final product?
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Evolution Studios own Motorstorm.

Moral Panic said:
The game is due in 6 months, looks worse and runs at half the frame rate of it's competitor, whilst being on superior hardware.

Theres no reason not to be disappointed.
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It's 35% finished.

Be disappointed in the final and complete product if it looks worse and runs like shit. Until then you're looking at pre-alpha code. A lot can happen in 6 months of development time.
 
... and people still love to talk on the base of videos and impressions over alpha builds.

Come on, please, use a bit of common sense and don't start to spread terrible sentences and awful comparisons :)

It's fair enough to hope to see games at 1080p+60fps, but I don't think it's so "terrible" if some games will be at 1080p@30 if they deliver impressive visual and gameplay. From a developer's viewpoint there are always choices to make and no one of them wants to deliver a bad experience with bad framerate or non-real 1080p etc
 
Loudninja said:
Because the game is not finished yet?

How is this hard to understand?
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3 months is not a lot of time to optimize and fix performance issues. Especially issues like input lag that have been a part of a franchise since the beginning of this generation. I am not jumping off the boat, but this article was a bit disappointing.
 
Soka said:
PS4 - 1080p, 30 FPS
Wii U - 1080p, 60 FPS

I'm just saying, that's either terrible coding, terrible design choices, or both. Turn down the graphics from a 10 to an 8 and double that framerate!
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Or just far more demanding graphics i guess

Why turn down the graphics when 30fps is about same as 60fps for most people

I am sure 99% of consumers would not even notice the difference in fps, while would right away notice the far better graphics
 
Smokey said:
Happens with the x1 on a hourly basis why can't it happen to the ps4

Are we going to see a separate thread detailing the state of these ps4 games? Doubt it!
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so in this thread butt hurt Xbone fans jump to conclusions about unoptimized launch games that are months from completion because it makes them feel better........ok
 
In general, I'd urge people to wait until the consoles are in independent hands and running the same multiplatform game before making any rash judgements. (This doesn't necessarily mean that I think PS4 titles will be a lot better by then...)
 
Durante said:
The problem with all these conversations is that people only argue about "with AA" and "without AA", ignoring the incredible difference between something like FXAA and high-sample sparse grid supersampling.
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That's why I always say "decent AA".
 
If we're going to compare pre-alpha code, let's at least compare games that are....you know...comparable.

DR3 and Infamous: SS are both open world games running on respective hardware. Infamous pretty much locked at 1080p30fps, DR3 running 1080p30fps with major drops in FPS.

Forza is a sim racer running 1080p60fps with no time of day, weather or real time car deformation. Driveclub is a more open-world racer running 1080p30fps with frame hitches. Dynamic time of day, weather and real-time car deformation (at least from what DF seemed to think).

KI is a fighting game, nothing to compare currently on PS4.

Ryse is a very scripted third-person game running 1080p30fps. I guess we could compare it to Killzone: SF, which is also running 1080p30fps. From impressions it sounds like Killzone has much more open level design and is more impressive graphically.

Not that I think we should even be judging pre-alpha code, but there ya go.
 
I thought I know a lot of stuff about computers when I started to work where I work now. Guess what? I didn't!
And I couldn't even imagine all this stuff I learned in the last 5 years. So people should be very cautious when claiming they have knowledge unless they are really in the industry developing games/graphics.
 
Durante said:
Actually, 1080p with no AA looks like ass (and could be argued to capture fewer details) compared to e.g. 720p with 4xSGSSAA.

The problem with all these conversations is that people only argue about "with AA" and "without AA", ignoring the incredible difference between something like FXAA and high-sample sparse grid supersampling.
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They say MSAA is too computationally expensive nowadays + i don't think any sort of SSAA for the same reasons. So we are pretty much left with whether they will use a post-process AA solution or not.
 
Jonboy said:
Great info. Thanks for sharing. I honestly have no clue how all this works so it's great to hear from someone who does.
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what it means is from a 3rd party view their games where never sent to sonys 3rd party qa team for a submission. at work we call it pre-sub. its when the games are reviewed and that the code passes sonys, ms, nintendo guidelines. they review and grade each defect found. they have tools that detect things in games that testers dont find on their own.

its a great process because its like having another top tier qa team that wants your game to pass when you do a final submission.
 
Nafai1123 said:
If we're going to compare pre-alpha code, let's at least compare games that are....you know...comparable.

DR3 and Infamous: SS are both open world games running on respective hardware. Infamous pretty much locked at 1080p30fps, DR3 running 1080p30fps with major drops in FPS.

Forza is a sim racer running 1080p60fps with no time of day, weather or real time car deformation. Driveclub is a more open-world racer running 1080p30fps with frame hitches. Dynamic time of day, weather and real-time car deformation (at least from what DF seemed to think).

KI is a fighting game, nothing to compare currently on PS4.

Ryse is a very scripted third-person game running 1080p30fps. I guess we could compare it to Killzone: SF, which is also running 1080p30fps. From impressions it sounds like Killzone has much more open level design and is more impressive graphically.

Not that I think we should even be judging pre-alpha code, but there ya go.
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smh rushed mess
 
Takuya said:
To say that I saw PCs when you guys are claiming they were running on Xbone hardware? Okay, you go live in your own imaginary world then.
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No-one goes to e3 without a camera. Show me pics.

You're saying the opposite of what thousands who went and even gaming sites have said.

The only game I've actually seen running on dev-kit/debug PCs was Lococycle. I'm sure a couple others were, but so far it's been said ("confirmed") that most/all 1st party games that were hands on were running on early hardware, not PCs.
 
Dapperk said:
Pretty much what I just read. 30fps games this gen again.
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Totally depends on the game and the developer and the engine they are using.

Framerate is a design choice. Max out graphical features and resolution or sacrifice for 60fps.

Microsoft choosing to put a 2D fighter at 60fps and their car game at 60fps are design choices and not that ambitious when you look at the fact they are a 2D fighter with cartoony graphics and a car game.

Battlefield 4 for next gen is 60fps and looks great. These consoles are capable of delivering if 60fps with high fidelity.
 
PairOfFilthySocks said:
Can someone please point out the last time a game's preview differed in any significant way to the final product? A lot of people here are saying the game's unfinished, yet it's releasing this fall. It's highly likely that whatever portions they show at this point are pretty much done, or so close it's barely noticeable. The 'it's not finished yet!' defense gets brought up every time, yet I can't remember the last time a game was so improved from E3 version to release that the framerate/visuals were notably better. Especially when the game in question is due by the end of the year.
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Actually, its very common for games to have choppy frame rates at the E3, but smooth frame rates by the time they launch six months later. General game design and model creation tends to be what comes first. Optimization takes place during the final stages of development.

Various users have cited specific instances of this, in this very thread, throughout this morning.
 
iamvin22 said:
what it means is from a 3rd party view their games where never sent to sonys 3rd party qa team for a submission. at work we call it pre-sub. its when the games are reviewed and that the code passes sonys, ms, nintendo guidelines. they review and grade each defect found. they have tools that detect things in games that testers dont find on their own.

its a great process because its like having another top tier qa team that wants your game to pass when you do a final submission.
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Nice. Good to know!
 
shandy706 said:
No-one goes to e3 without a camera. Show me pics.

You're saying the opposite of what thousands who went and even gaming sites have said.
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I didn't take pics of the stands they opened up to do maintenance on because, that's not what I go to E3 for. I took plenty of other pictures (including the console displays) which you can find in other threads.

And actually a lot of gaming sites have pointed out that they are not running on Xbone hardware. There were less than a handfull of games running on dev kits.
 
Loudninja said:
I think he meant a constant 60 FPS,I am not sure.
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I'm pretty sure Forza 5 did. Lets be honest here though, Turn 10 is a world class studio and they should have the best game at launch period, for either console. Their past 2 games have been the highest rated racing games this gen and I see no reason why that won't continue next gen.
 
c0de said:
No. It's based on BSD, just like PS4. They don't have *that* much in common regarding the bare os.
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My bad, I stand corrected had to dig a little but found it.


OS is based on BSD. Should be the first time I used this architecture to the game machine.
Seen from the OS side, the PS4, you will be able to use a wide variety of functions simultaneously. Play from the transmission of video game play, then switch to the game as it is now, and even switch to
watch a friend’s video game play, as our goal, talking with friends about the video. Go to the store I found something good something, buy in the store, I asked a friend, “Are you OK with

this?” … And. It is that feeling like you to use while come and go freely. In multi-player games, without having to “stop” the game, while moving in the background, you can act like this.
In cooperation with OS, I can now very rich.
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http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread.php/308348-PS4-UI-can-display-in-4K-importance-of-GPGPU-and-more-OS-details-from-Mark-Cerny

But I was kind of right as BSD has to do with MAC OS. Which is what Linux and Ubuntu are based off of similar code. And they are UNIX based.
here are a number of Unix-like operating systems under active development, descended from the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) series of UNIX variants developed (originally by Bill Joy) at the University of California, Berkeley EECS department. Currently, there are four major BSD operating systems, and an increasing number of other OSs derived from these, that add or remove certain features but generally remain compatible with their originating OS
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BSD_operating_systems
 
Oh boy, some people here were really craving for fuel for their crusade XDDDD. It's so funny to see so many mask fall off.
 
Clockwork5 said:
3 months is not a lot of time to optimize and fix performance issues. Especially issues like input lag that have been a part of a franchise since the beginning of this generation. I am not jumping off the boat, but this article was a bit disappointing.
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even if the build is already 5 months old? Technically that gives them 8 months...
 
captscience said:
Does it seem like Sony's first party graphical output is uncharacteristically lagging behind other developers?

I've been suspecting it since E3 and this article lends further proof, but perhaps coding exclusively for the PS3 has left them a half step behind developers who have been making PC games?
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This isnt the case, if anything coding for ps3 has given them a head start as the cells SPU's cant be seen as the prototype for GPGPU cores, both work best using job based multi-core processing.

this is purely a case of unfinished code being showed on an unreleased platform
 
Takuya said:
I didn't take pics of the stands they opened up to do maintenance on because, that's not what I go to E3 for. I took plenty of other pictures (including the console displays) which you can find in other threads.

And actually a lot of gaming sites have pointed out that they are not running on Xbone hardware. There were less than a handfull of games running on dev kits.
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Isn't that what we're talking about? A handfull vs a handfull? 1080p/60 vs 1080p/30?

Also...you saw X1 "AAA" release date games running on PCs and didn't jump at the chance to take an "LOL" pic?
 
I prefer watching real gameplay even in pre alpha stage rather than pre rendered target cg.

Big step up from their last console's reveal.

I mean, c'mon its obvious 80% of the obvious issues were finding will be dealt with.
And who knows how much stuff will get fixed that we know nothing about..
 
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