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[driver116]

That's Evolutions fault then isn't it then? both games were shown on real hardware, both games are slated for launch, both games are in the same genre. Not DF's fault Evolution decided to bring an old build (if that's what this is).

Two completely different developers, from different countries, working on different games, on different consoles, with different development methodologies.

So if we assume the game had a typical development schedule(ie. 1.5-2 years) that would mean this build is about a year old! Sorry, I don't buy it.

They probably don't even have the final devkits yet (both companies), probably still PC parts, and the PS4 probably still has 4GB.

 

[Screaming Meat]

So... should prospective PS4 buyers be worried, GAF?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

In general, I'd urge people to wait until the consoles are in independent hands and running the same multiplatform game before making any rash judgements. (This doesn't necessarily mean that I think PS4 titles will be a lot better by then...)

Even then it going to take year or so before we can say anything .
I mean some of these games are coming out 5 systems do people really think they going to look that much different come launch .

 

[Jonboy]

Yes. I've tried it out on my 'Samsung Smart TV LCD'.

However, for some reason, 720p and 1080p look virtually indistinguishable on a good plasma set. It seems like plasma TVs have some kind of upscaling wizardry.

They're virtually indistinguishable on anything less than 50in too. Also depends on how close you are to the tv. See my previous post.

 

[Drek]

'35% finished' and 'pre-alpha code' are PR buzzwords as far as I'm concerned. There's no way the game is internally being considered still at 'pre-alpha' stage with 6 months to go.

Assuming the game is 35% percent done and there's just 6 months to go, wouldn't that make overall development time about 9-10 months?

Because I'm sure Evolution just dropped everything before E3 to start building an entirely new demo after having earlier playable builds sitting around, right?

Building a demo is a huge PITA for most developers because you spend a bunch of man hours making something with zero value to the final game. Most developers avoid doing it more than they absolutely have to.

And by the way, Evolution of all developers has shown clear leaps in playable demo build quality with previous titles, so it's not unreasonable at all to expect major visual jumps in Drive Club within the next 6 months.

 

[BloodMoney]

I can do 1080p/60fps on Crysis 3 with high settings(some on maxed) and good IQ and it still blows all the next gen titles we've seen out the water. This is also on 2 year old hardware...

It's just about the only game that my system can't max out at 60fps and 1080p. I don't know what you were trying to accomplish by singleing out the most graphics intensive game that next gen consoles won't be able to touch.

So actually, you can't run Crysis 3 maxed at 1080p. Which is fine, i can't either, despite the fact that i've got a $400 GPU, 16 gigs of ram, and a quad core processor oc'd to 4.6 ghz...

I think my point is pretty obvious. Insane graphics come at a cost (frames per second, and/or $$$ from your wallet).

 

[KOHIPEET]

Honestly, I'm grateful for how good Forza looks. If they could do that on a weaker hardware, man. We're in for some very pretty ps4 games.

By the way, when people refer to actual Xbone hardware, they mean those HP desktops with big ass processors and almost top tier Nvidia gpus? I wonder how developers could achieve 60 fps on that weak hardware, must be some kind of miracle.

 

[TheExecutive]

So what they are saying here is that a game that is at least 5 months out on a new platform is in rough shape? Do bears shit in the woods? All in all this is to be expected.

 

[KHarvey16]

So if we assume the game had a typical development schedule(ie. 1.5-2 years) that would mean this build is about a year old! Sorry, I don't buy it.

If we go around just assuming things we can come up with all kinds of scenarios you wouldn't believe.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

So... should prospective PS4 buyers be worried, GAF?

No. There is plenty of time for improvement. The more developed, but likely less stable code has yet to be seen.

People need to relax. These are nowhere near completed titles. If they were being released next week, I'd say be very worried. They have ~5 months to get this together.

RELAX

 

[Orayn]

And 60fps has twice as smooth animations and responsiveness. It is all a matter of opinion, which is why I just want a resolution option on console games. I really dont see how this is too much to ask for.

I don't know if it's "too much," but it is a lot to ask for. Console game development involves quite a bit of time spent on making little adjustments to keep the game from falling below the target framerate, and adding in another target framerate could effectively double that workload. Targeting 60FPS and adding a 30FPS "eye candy mode" would be an easier transition, sure, but then you're kinda stuck twiddling your thumbs at how to improve the game's appearance if you want the upgrades to be really noticeable.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

So what they are saying here is that a game that is at least 5 months out on a new platform is in rough shape? Do bears shit in the woods? All in all this is to be expected.

No, they are saying in comparison to other titles they are in rough shape.

 

[Clockwork5]

Yes. I've tried it out on my 'Samsung Smart TV LCD'.

However, for some reason, 720p and 1080p look virtually indistinguishable on a good plasma set. It seems like plasma TVs have some kind of upscaling wizardry.

I dont know man, AA (I am not a technical guru so I am not aware of the multiple forms of AA) can do wonders for a 720p game that has quality textures and models. Maybe I need glasses

 

[LiquidMetal14]

So... should prospective PS4 buyers be worried, GAF?

Why should we? If I saw every game that had months to go and gauged it is the final product then I would never buy games.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Killzone felt lower than 30 fps at times and still has the input lag of KZ2? Yeesh, that would feel horrible as a shooter experience

 

[Showaddy]

That's the way Guerilla designed their game to generate that weighty feel. There are plenty who don't like it, and plenty who do. The best thing for them to do is keep it the same for those who keep coming back to the franchise, their bread and butter. They're not going to change it up.

I prefer it this way anyway. There are plenty of other shooters out there for those who don't particularly enjoy this series...

Problem is you're not a trooper slugging his way through the trenches with 100lbs of kit now ala K2. You're supposed to be some sort of Super-Solider Assassin who can climb freely, zip-line off structures and pop Helghast with bullet-time. The 'realism' angle doesn't really apply anymore.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

I love overreaction gaf.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

60fps was the best buzzword to come out of E3. This is...disappointing.

 

[KKRT00]

So can I but I disagree with your assessment. I think Infamous, Killzone SF, and The Division all look more impressive than Crysis 3, for instance. It's all kind of opinion, though.

God, its not an opinion when tech is involved. Crysis 3 does much more than any of this game. Division is the closest, but it still lacks several features [it make up with assets fidelity and amount].

Infamous and KZ:SF does not even count, first has terrible pop-in for shadows and geometry and second has pop-in, crappy textures, and its not even fps stable. And then they lack half of C3 features.

--
Ps. Strange article, they havent mentioned great SSR and GI in Knack, although GI could be prebaked.

 

[OnFire331]

So alpha builds of launch games have sub-par performance? Tell me it ain't so. Still, I don't expect these first batch of games to fully take advantage of the system, they never do.

 

[Futurevoid]

No. There is plenty of time for improvement. The more developed, but likely less stable code has yet to be seen.

People need to relax. These are nowhere near completed titles. If they were being released next week, I'd say be very worried. They have ~5 months to get this together.

RELAX

Yep and that goes for both platforms. I'm willing to bet Dead Rising 3's framerate issues will have been mostly resolved by the time it hits store shelves for the Xbox One for instance.

 

[velociraptor]

I dont know man, AA (I am not a technical guru so I am not aware of the multiple forms of AA) can do wonders for a 720p game that has quality textures and models. Maybe I need glasses

You lose a shit ton of detail in 720p.

The picture in 1080p looks crystal clear. It's a sight to behold.

720p is not. Games look extremely soft with 720p.

Gran Turismo 5 has an option for 1080p 2xMSAA and 720p 4xMSAA. Take a guess at which looks better?

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

So then why /exactly/ are you judging the game based on a 35% complete E3 build?

Are you saying that the development team is lying and that the build they are showing at E3 is farther along then? If so, then your hypothesis as it were is that the game has no hope of ever turning the corner.

You realize this is remarkably silly, right? If what you're saying is that internally the team is farther along than the build they showed at E3, that goes exactly to my point. It's got 6 months of time to cook before it hits store shelves. Making judgments based on a E3 demo is laughable. That goes for product on either platform.

No, I'm saying it's highly unlikely the actual build they showed us is being considered '35% done' or 'pre-alpha' internally.

I agree that it's remarkably silly to think the team is farther along than the build they showed at E3(at least in any meaningful sense). The problem is that the current build is evidently not up to snuff and simple maths applied to the '35%' comment leads me to suspect the game is being rushed like hell.

 

[Roland1979]

It's going to be alright. O ye, of little faith.

 

[M°°nblade]

And 60fps has twice as smooth animations and responsiveness. It is all a matter of opinion, which is why I just want a resolution option on console games. I really dont see how this is too much to ask for.

Correction: it has twice as smooth animations, not necessarely twice the responsiveness. Controller input is not something that's bound by framerate or so I've been told.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/05/why-dmc-runs-30-fps-on-consoles-according-to-capcom/

 

[guek]

I'm only on the first few pages but the 30fps defense force is hilarious.

There's no need to defend it. Just say these are launch titles and shrug it off. While some disappointment is understandable, games like killzone being 30fps doesn't say much about the system, just like NSMBU being 720p and not 1080p didn't really mean jack about the Wii U.

Platforms, even one as accessible and powerful as the PS4, take time to mature. It's the way of the world and expected for console launches. All of the next gen platforms, PS4, XB1, and yes, Wii U too, will become increasingly more impressive in terms of what they can do as their toolsets and documentation mature over time.

 

[KHarvey16]

No, I'm saying it's highly unlikely the actual build they showed us is being considered '35% done' or 'pre-alpha' internally.

And what do you have to support this beyond personal incredulity?

 

[FoxSpirit]

I simply feel DriveClub was originally meant for the PS3 so now they have trouble upshifting. Compared to Forza which seems to be natively XBOne developed.
In return, besides Killer Insinct, nothing looked good.

Ryze looked so bad I could hardly believe it that THAT was supposed to be a showcase. And it's 720p. Really, there is no 1080p footage of it to be found anywhere. And it's dark and low contrast which is great if you wanna hide stuff. In return, it ran on actuan hardware.
I still prepare for that massive quality impact on XBO at launch going by CBOAT.

But yeah, 2nd Son is where it's at. And Watchdogs. I'm curious how the two versions compare.

 

[The Janitor]

I'm thinking Sony first party studios have limited experience optimizing for x86. That's why third party games had smoother frame rate and BF4 will be 1080p/60fps on the PS4. It'll be my shooter of choice for PS4 launch.

Pretty sure 1080P hasn't been confirmed for BF4

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

You know, this alpha transparency issue reminds of all the talk about WiiU not having enough bandwidth.

So what is the diagnosis?

 

[KOHIPEET]

Does Crysis 3 have an Apex Turbulence-like interactive particle system? (Like warframe; Kz:Sf; Ff15)

 

[Lord Error]

By the way, when people refer to actual Xbone hardware, they mean those HP desktops with big ass processors and almost top tier Nvidia gpus? I wonder how developers could achieve 60 fps on that weak hardware, must be some kind of miracle.

Apparently, Forza was running on actual final production Xbox hardware. Or a devkit that's in that same box I guess.

IMO, upon closer inspection you can tell why F5 is able to run at 1080p60 on that kind of hardware and it's the same reasons how GT5 is able to run at almost that spec. It makes same/similar kinds of tradeoffs.

 

[shandy706]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

Yes, we know all this.

I'm not sure what your point is?

We're talking a few first party games vs a few first party games.....and what appears to be a 60fps target vs 30fps target. Those games weren't running on PC.

You know...the ones that should have been in development for a loooooooong time on PS4. The supposed Microsoft games that are well behind in development vs the PS4 games that are supposed to be ahead of schedule (was that "rumor" ever debunked?).

Higher fidelity vs higher frame rates vs higher detail..that's what we're talking about.

 

[RoboPlato]

No. There is plenty of time for improvement. The more developed, but likely less stable code has yet to be seen.

People need to relax. These are nowhere near completed titles. If they were being released next week, I'd say be very worried. They have ~5 months to get this together.

RELAX

This. Especially since they don't have final hardware yet and GG and Evolution both have track records of massive visual improvements in the last couple months of development. I'm actually happy this article came out, despite the fact that it's not an ideal scenario. It let's devs know what to focus on in the next few months.

 

[jacksepticeye]

This thread is fun

 

[Metalmurphy]

You lose a shit ton of detail in 720p.

The picture in 1080p looks crystal clear. It's a sight to behold.

720p is not. Games look extremely soft with 720p.

Gran Turismo 5 has an option for 1080p 2xMSAA and 720p 4xMSAA. Take a guess at which looks better?

It has an option for upscaled 1280x1080>1080p 2xMSAA and 720p 4xMSAA.

Native 1080p with x2MSAA would look considerably better.

 

[Raiden]

I dont need 60fps though. A solid 40-50 is good enough.

 

[trmas]

I'm glad that Sony showed actual games instead of smoke and mirrors. With that comes glitches and stuff, but at least you don't have to peek under the good for some souped up PC

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

If we go around just assuming things we can come up with all kinds of scenarios you wouldn't believe.

I'm just looking at it from two possibilities:

a) The build is a recent one, which implies the game still has ~65% to be done within 6 months.

b) The game had a typical game development schedule, in which case why the buggering heck would they bring such an old build to E3?

I can't be the only one who finds the '35%' comment weird. The game's have to go gold in less than 6 months, too.

 

[Futurevoid]

No, I'm saying it's highly unlikely the actual build they showed us is being considered '35% done' or 'pre-alpha' internally.

I agree that it's remarkably silly to think the team is farther along than the build they showed at E3(at least in any meaningful sense). The problem is that the current build is evidently not up to snuff and simple maths applied to the '35%' comment leads me to suspect the game is being rushed like hell.

Actually I don't think that's out of the question. As mentioned, these developers have a few options when it comes to demoing their games at these trade shows. They can either build a dedicated demo to put the games "best" foot forward as it were but then that takes away important resources for the games actual development. The other option is to use an available build of the game which is the direction Evolution Studios took with Drive Club.

I understand the view that Forza looks to be farther along and more "complete" as it were (with some substantial cuts made to hit launch mind you). I just think it's a bit silly to get too up in arms about the state of Drive Club at the moment. As mentioned, Evolution is a studio that has had poor showings for its games in the past and has been able to push forward and release quality product. If the final game isn't up to snuff, then yeah I understand the ire. Right now? It's a bit too early to me to get too worried about it.

 

[Takuya]

Yes, we know all this.

I'm not sure what your point is?

We're talking a few first party games vs a few first party games.....and what appears to be a 60fps target vs 30fps target. Those games weren't running on PC.

You know...the ones that should have been in development for a loooooooong time on PS4. The supposed Microsoft games that are well behind in development vs the PS4 games that are supposed to be ahead of schedule (was that "rumor" ever debunked?).

Higher fidelity vs higher frame rates vs higher detail..that's what we're talking about.

I don't remember ever referring to those points, only to those who were claiming the games were all running on Xbone hardware.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'm glad that Sony showed actual games instead of smoke and mirrors. With that comes glitches and stuff, but at least you don't have to peek under the good for some souped up PC

Forza wasn't running in a PC. DF did a whole article on games running on actual hardware.

 

[KKRT00]

Does Crysis 3 have an Apex Turbulence-like interactive particle system? (Like warframe; Kz:Sf; Ff15)

Doesnt need Apex, because all its particles are affected by explosions and winds forces [dust, smoke and sparks] and thats enabled even on current-gen consoles.

 

[Crisco]

It's not a huge surprise that multiplatform titles and XBone exclusives are further along than PS4 exclusives. From a bird's eye view, the 360 and the One are very similar. The biggest change is PowerPC to x86 but there is actually very little developers have to do to account for that, it's just a different compiler target. Both have unified shader architectures, unified memory with embedded ram for the GPU, and a conventional multi-core CPU. The One has just more of everything. The graphics APIs are going to be very similar, DirectX based, and the developer tools won't change much.

For PS3 exclusives developers going to PS4, it's a whole new world. PS3 had discrete system/graphics memory, discrete pixel/vertex shaders, a very un-conventional CPU architecture and custom APIs/development tools. They basically had to throw out their old tools and start coding from scratch. Multiplatforms have it much easier as they are already have the tools and experience developing for systems very similar to the PS4.

 

[69wpm]

Rather ironic you calling other people ignorant. No-one has said they don't notice the difference, people(myself included) are saying they just don't care about it.

Put me in the 'better graphics at 30fps over worse graphics at 60fps camp'.

Of course, both would be ideal if possible.

Read the thread again, then. There are a few people here who said they don't see a difference between 30 and 60 fps.

 

[la flama blanca]

So... should prospective PS4 buyers be worried, GAF?

Cancel your pre-order right now. I did.

 

[artist]

So... should prospective PS4 buyers be worried, GAF?

FWIW, I cancelled my pre-order.

 

[Futurevoid]

Ryze looked so bad I could hardly believe it that THAT was supposed to be a showcase. And it's 720p..

DF confirmed that Ryse is a native 1080p title. Not sure where you're getting that its 720p at all.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

God, its not an opinion when tech is involved. Crysis 3 does much more than any of this game. Division is the closest, but it still lacks several features [it make up with assets fidelity and amount].

Infamous and KZ:SF does not even count, first has terrible pop-in for shadows and geometry and second has pop-in, crappy textures, and its not even fps stable. And then they lack half of C3 features.

--
Ps. Strange article, they havent mentioned great SSR and GI in Knack, although GI could be prebaked.

Why the hell would you compare a open world games like Division and Infamous SS to Crysis 3 .
Also when KZ SF comes out then we can compare it to Crysis 3 ( Crysis 3 most likely going to look better any way thanks to GPU tech . )

 

[Croyles]

Meh doesn't really bother me. For people that it does bother, i'm sure later games will do ok in that regard+ still a little time to optimize.