DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!

MWS Natural said:
I don't get it, is a Gaming PC somehow not an option for the 60FPS whores?
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anyone who is seriously a performance junkie would have one. I dont give a fuck about anything other than racing/fighting/sports games being 60 fps on consoles. And even then, if those games aint exclusive, who cares. I have a beefy PC for my performance needs.
 
MWS Natural said:
I don't get it, is a Gaming PC somehow not an option for the 60FPS whores?
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I don't give a flying fuck if games that are also on PC run like shit on consoles. But I would like to play the few PS4 exclusives that will interest me without serious eye bleed.
 
This is why you don't buy shit at launch anymore. Also I wasn't expecting 60fps games from any non nintendo developer TBH so if any of them deliver it, I'd be positively surprised. 30fps and image filters/blur is the AAA future.
 
Zefah said:
Wasn't aware of that! I thought they had everything running on dev kits/PCs.

If that's true, then Killer Instinct's performance certainly bodes well for Xbox One games.
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most were on pc's, even DF commented in this very article:

Unlike many of Microsoft's show-floor demos this E3, however, the use of genuine PS4 hardware among all developers also gives us a far more honest insight into the console's potential, despite making for a brace of nail-biting "will it? won't it?" moments during its conference.
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Sendou said:
I don't know what conference you watched but ACIV in Sony press conference wasn't what I call flawless.
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I'm talking about performance and tools. Obviously a game in alpha or beta have bugs and problems. But Ubi aims for 60 fps in AC IV being an ambitious and open world game while sony first party aim to 30 fps for now.
 
dragonbane said:
For what did you eat crow?
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Prior to E3, I made it clear that I expected 60 fps to be as common next gen as it is current gen. I believed specific devs will target 60 fps for specific games but the vast majority would be 30 fps, like always. I expected 1080p to become more common but the framerate situation to remain the same.

I ate crow because it seemed that more devs were targeting 60 fps out of the gate next gen, at least while there were many crossgen titles in the pipe line. I'm now more confident that my original expectations were correct.
 
ViewtifulJC said:
Was Killzone 2 unfinished?
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Tastes are subjective. I hate the way they speeded up kz3 and actually loves killzone 2 weighty feel and controls. Morons ruined the Kz experience crying about how it should feel light and like COD.

Killzone was a finished game and one of the most acclaimed Fps games this generation so i dont know what your trying to get at.
 
With the difference in power in addition to the easy dev environment, I can understand why people get disappointed that PS4 games aren't blowing everybody away at this point and burying XB1 visuals. But it's just too early to draw any conclusions. Patience.
 
I expect a wave of opportunistic trolling during the first era of PS4 games, but as the console generation wears on and we see more separation between titles, (as we did with PS3 exclusives this gen) the trolls will go silent.
 
lovegames718 said:
Tastes are subjective. I hate the way they speeded up kz3 and actually loves killzone 2 weighty feel and controls. Morons ruined the Kz experience crying about how it should feel light and like COD.

Killzone was a finished game and one of the most acclaimed Fps games this generation so i dont know what your trying to get at.
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You have my heart now. Your soul is wonderful.
 
it should also be mentioned (maybe in the OP hint hint) that at the end of it Digital Foundry was NOT unimpressed... On the contrary:

Such a disparity in performance is far from the outcome we had expected going in to E3, but Sony's agenda with this initial wave of games is clearly hinging on visual fireworks rather than maximising frame-rates to the full 60Hz refresh. In the case of Guerrilla Games' and Sucker Punch's sterling work, the pay-off speaks volumes through the screens, and we're left itching to jump into both come their European releases. Christmas can't come soon enough.
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so they weren't even complaining about 30fps (except for drops obviously) but instead noting that MS went for 1080p60 whereas Sony went for 1080p30 with beefed up visuals (CGI-quality used to describe Second Son' gameplay)
 
The most disappointing thing was DriveClub because I was really looking forward to that. I knew it wasn't going to be as visually impressive as Forza 5 because it's not a racing simulator but why are there low textures and shit?

I was expecting Killzone to be 30 FPS just because of how lush and rich the environments are in the demos. It's impossible to extrapolate that much power out of the hardware at launch when you don't have much experience with the hardware. I think a solid 30 FPS 1080p resolution is good enough considering it was the most visually impressive game in E3 2013. They must lose the input lag though, that's a no brainer.

Infamous has a lot of leeway since it's not a launch title. I expect it to be visually impressive and hope they will be able to squeak 60 FPS out of it but if they can't I won't be too disappointed considering it's an open world game.

Knack 30fps 1080p is fine. The important thing for Knack is to have good and addictive gameplay.

Overall not too bad considering these games are still 5+ months off right now so there is a lot of time to optimize the code and polish the aesthetics.
 
Felix Lighter said:
Prior to E3, I made it clear that I expected 60 fps to be as common next gen as it is current gen. I believed specific devs will target 60 fps for specific games but the vast majority would be 30 fps, like always. I expected 1080p to become more common but the framerate situation to remain the same.

I ate crow because it seemed that more devs were targeting 60 fps out of the gate next gen, at least while there were many crossgen titles in the pipe line. I'm now more confident that my original expectations were correct.
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Of course it is correct. 60 fps are just for racing games and fighting games and some shooters (=identical with this gen). The only real difference I can see at the moment is that more shooters try to go for 60 FPS, probably because of CoD.

Besides that, nothing changed and most games will be 30 FPS. After 1-2 years anyway.
 
dragonbane said:
...

I also expect the differences to get bigger once developers start to use the GPU more and more, since the one in the PS4 is undoubtedly more powerful than the XBox. This is especially a learning process for Sony's first party, since they have to go from CPU focus to GPU focus.
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true, same CPU means similar results now and I agree about GPU but as the GPU gets more work, they also need to keep GPU fed and the Xbox is designed to squeeze ounces out of its GPU by feeding it fast with ESRAM so I think they will keep up pretty well (although with sacrifices compared to PS4 of course) but not nearly as noticeable as the "50% more"
 
I just realized Evolution Studios also made Motostorm lol. I wouldn't be too worried about DriveClub now, those guys have a history of showing shitty looking games that look good buy release date.
 
Hopefully peoples expectations are ironed down a little. No matter the platform, smaller or less experienced devs aren't going to magically 1up all previous games.
 
borghe said:
sony and most press are calling it "launch window". I'm guessing they will shoot for February.
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Unless the Playstation 4 is launching in February, that still doesn't make it a launch title.;)

I hate the entire concept of the "launch window" nonsense. It's either there on day one, or it's not.
 
Klocker said:
it's early and not an indication of what PS4 will be able to do when Devs optimize

but it also goes to show what most people refuse to hear, Xbone and its ESRAM are more powerful than people are giving it credit for and most likely able to stay close to PS4
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Based on what? Forza 5? c'mon... Killer Instinct running at 1080p and 60fps is no feat at all. All current-gen fighters run at 60fps 720p and games like Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 are much more graphic intensive (and lots of characters at once, switching on the fly). Ryse looks like it's on rails and it's lagging.
 
badb0y said:
The most disappointing thing was DriveClub because I was really looking forward to that. I knew it wasn't going to be as visually impressive as Forza 5 because it's not a racing simulator but why are there low textures and shit?

I was expecting Killzone to be 30 FPS just because of how lush and rich the environments are in the demos. It's impossible to extrapolate that much power out of the hardware at launch when you don't have much experience with the hardware. I think a solid 30 FPS 1080p resolution is good enough considering it was the most visually impressive game in E3 2013. They must lose the input lag though, that's a no brainer.

Infamous has a lot of leeway since it's not a launch title. I expect it to be visually impressive and hope they will be able to squeak 60 FPS out of it but if they can't I won't be too disappointed considering it's an open world game.

Knack 30fps 1080p is fine. The important thing for Knack is to have good and addictive gameplay.

Overall not too bad considering these games are still 5+ months off right now so there is a lot of time to optimize the code and polish the aesthetics.
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Evolution's games always come together very late, because they work on all parts of the game at once. It is going to look better. The same happened with MotorStorm.
 
shinobi602 said:
You do know Guerilla does it on purpose right? that it's not that they're incapable of changing it?
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It's not a bug, it's a feature! So many people have complained about this. At this point, I highly doubt that they actually do this on purpose. Not while also having an unstable framerate. You can easily add a certain heaviness to the character without making it feel like input lag.

gekkokamen said:
Based on what? Forza 5? c'mon... Killer Instinct running at 1080p and 60fps is no feat at all. All current-gen fighters run at 60fps 720p and games like Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 are much more graphic intensive (and lots of characters at once, switching on the fly). Ryse looks like it's on rails and it's lagging.
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What about Forza 5 then? Does it look worse than Drive Club?
 
MogCakes said:
Almost every post you make compares the PS4's and the XB1's power. I'm not insulting you, I just find that incredibly funny.
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not insulted as you are funny too... happy to amuse you... thread OP and linked article specifically compares PS4 games to Xbox One games.
 
Klocker said:
true, same CPU means similar results now and I agree about GPU but as the GPU gets more work, they also need to keep GPU fed and the Xbox is designed to squeeze ounces out of its GPU by feeding it fast with ESRAM so I think they will keep up pretty well (although with sacrifices compared to PS4 of course) but not nearly as noticeable as the "50% more"
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Klocker, I hate to be "that guy" but ESRAM has less bandwidth then GDDR5 provides. The PS4 will feed the GPU much better than the Xbox One will.
 
KaiserBecks said:
It's not a bug, it's a feature! So many people have complained about this. At this point, I highly doubt that they actually do this on purpose. Not while also having an unstable framerate. You can easily add a certain heaviness to the character without making it feel like input lag.
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The lag is definitely intended and many people like it (I don't).
 
velociraptor said:
Yes. I've tried it out on my 'Samsung Smart TV LCD'.

However, for some reason, 720p and 1080p look virtually indistinguishable on a good plasma set. It seems like plasma TVs have some kind of upscaling wizardry.
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Plasma TV's have vastly superior motion resolution; I'm guessing it's that.

A decent plasma will get you full or near full resolution in motion, whereas a decent LCD will net you about half of that.

Plasma is the mutts nuts..
 
I have no problem with 30 FPS, give me the bling instead of 60FPS. Unless it's a racing game, or fighting game...or Sports game...

1080p is the big thing for me. It's such a big jump in image quality.
 
I'm used to 1080p and 60fps so hearing that a new console generation might bring a downgrade is unexpected and not at all what I wanted to hear. :(
 
Klocker said:
true, same CPU means similar results now and I agree about GPU but as the GPU gets more work, they also need to keep GPU fed and the Xbox is designed to squeeze ounces out of its GPU by feeding it fast with ESRAM so I think they will keep up pretty well (although with sacrifices compared to PS4 of course) but not nearly as noticeable as the "50% more"
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the eSRAM is a workaround put in when MS was positive they would ship with double the RAM because Sony was committing to GDDR5. 8GB DDR3 feeding into 32MB eSRAM to compare to 4GB GDDR5.

With Sony doubling the RAM, they once again increased that deficit way more than the eSRAM can account for.

At launch we won't really see much of a difference. But as time goes on, that memory architecture difference will become MUCH more profound, not less so.
 
I'm not sure I understand the amount of attention this is getting.

Most of the games are aiming for 30fps with top graphics, which is what we are nearly seeing with unfinished code. Driveclub is the only thing that sticks out, they are 30fps, but what are they using the extra 16ms/frame on, open world ?

Forza 5 being 60fps is not really a surprise, it is every time. They made some sacrifices for it, but they achieved it.Good for Turn 10.

A fighting game being 60fps is a "duh". That is the easiest genre ever for getting 60fps. They sacrifice for that though, the game looks like a 360 game in 1080P.

The rest of the games for MS are either on a PC or not worth mentioning for their tech or performance.
 
AgentP said:
I'm not sure I understand the amount of attention this is getting.
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It's getting attention because (apparently) many people assumed new consoles would equal almost all 1080p60 titles, instead of the more likely scenario that devs were going to largely target the framerates of the current gen with much lusher visuals at 1080p.

and then there is a small contingent going with "lulz sony first parties.."
 
KaiserBecks said:
It's not a bug, it's a feature! So many people have complained about this. At this point, I highly doubt that they actually do this on purpose. Not while also having an unstable framerate. You can easily add a certain heaviness to the character without making it feel like input lag.



What about Forza 5 then? Does it look worse than Drive Club?
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Exactly, Just ONE game. In a very controlled demo not running an actual race with 12-16 cars in it. I'd like to see BF4 running on actual Xbone hardware. November will be fun.
 
Well that disappointing, I'm far more interested with Infamous SS than any of these title though.. hope that run fine.

EDIT :And sweeeeeeeettttttt... Infamous is the brightest spot at that article.
 
KaiserBecks said:
It's not a bug, it's a feature! So many people have complained about this. At this point, I highly doubt that they actually do this on purpose. Not while also having an unstable framerate. You can easily add a certain heaviness to the character without making it feel like input lag.
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The KZ games have perfectly normal framerates on PS3, and Shadow Fall is unfinished. Do you think Guerilla are so incompetent as a dev that they don't know how to get rid of input lag if they so choose? It is 100% on purpose. They know people have complained about and addressed it before. That is their style for the KZ series.
 
AgentP said:
I'm not sure I understand the amount of attention this is getting.

Most of the games are aiming for 30fps with top graphics, which is what we are nearly seeing with unfinished code. Driveclub is the only thing that sticks out, they are 30fps, but what are they using the extra 16ms/frame on, open world ?

Forza 5 being 60fps is not really a surprise, it is every time. They made some sacrifices for it, but they achieved it.Good for Turn 10.

A fighting game being 60fps is a "duh". That is the easiest genre ever for getting 60fps. They sacrifice for that though, the game looks like a 360 game in 1080P.

The rest of the games for MS are either on a PC or not worth mentioning for their tech or performance.
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Ryse was the best looking Xbox One game and it wasn't running either at 60FPS or on a Xbox One.
 
badb0y said:
Klocker, I hate to be "that guy" but ESRAM has less bandwidth then GDDR5 provides. The PS4 will feed the GPU much better than the Xbox One will.
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yes of course I understand that but I also understand that they are not used in the same way and are not comparable 1:1.

the way the Xbox will move data around is not the same as how a typical RAM set up on PS4 is done. It's not a band aid for bandwidth, it is engineered to allow flexibility to move chunks of data


not saying "ESRAM is better" before everyone gets uproar... just saying it's better than the numbers indicate and better than most people with little understanding assume that it can not keep up when it will perform better than we think in real world

borghe said:
the eSRAM is a workaround put in when MS was positive they would ship with double the RAM.
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I believe design choice not workaround but hey my opinion, your opinion :)
 
AgentP said:
I'm not sure I understand the amount of attention this is getting.

Most of the games are aiming for 30fps with top graphics, which is what we are nearly seeing with unfinished code. Driveclub is the only thing that sticks out, they are 30fps, but what are they using the extra 16ms/frame on, open world ?

Forza 5 being 60fps is not really a surprise, it is every time. They made some sacrifices for it, but they achieved it.Good for Turn 10.

A fighting game being 60fps is a "duh". That is the easiest genre ever for getting 60fps. They sacrifice for that though, the game looks like a 360 game in 1080P.

The rest of the games for MS are either on a PC or not worth mentioning for their tech or performance.
Click to expand...

People are mad because Sony should be aiming for 1080p60 instead of 1080p30 with better visuals. Whats the point of amazing graphics if the game runs like shit?
 
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