DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!

Jburton said:
esram is a workaround for the slower DDR3 ram, it is part of the design to compensate for the bandwidth restrictions gained by using DDR3.
Click to expand...

As a seperate memory pool, it has it's own advantages on top of boosting theoretical total system memory bandwidth, a couple of devs on B3D have given insights into the kinds of things a seperate memory pool can offer..

But, I'm also inclined to think that the 30fps foibles being reported on PS4 could well be chalked down to unoptimised code, but then this doesn't quite jive with the 'Xbox One development is 6 months behind + their tools suck' stories that have been 'confirmed', or the "Sony first party devs are gods'..

Personnaly, I think that they had 'targets' and 60fps just isn't one of those for whatever reason, I don't remotely think MS are suddenly so clever as to have known Sony first parties where targetting 30 and so went for 60 to make a point because I'm not seeing them make a huge song and dance about it..
 
Snubbers said:
As a seperate memory pool, it has it's own advantages on top of boosting theoretical total system memory bandwidth, a couple of devs on B3D have given insights into the kinds of things a seperate memory pool can offer..

But, I'm also inclined to think that the 30fps foibles being reported on PS4 could well be chalked down to unoptimised code, but then this doesn't quite jive with the 'Xbox One development is 6 months behind + their tools suck' stories that have been 'confirmed'..
Click to expand...

Sure it does.

Most the MS games were either running off PC's, or were relatively simple games, such as Killer Instinct. The former is a bit of a cheat, and the later isn't anywhere comparable to building a complex game, like an FPS.

This isn't a slight against fighting games incidentally. Fixed perspectives, just, make things a lot easier.
 
Wizman23 said:
Even with the extra power of the PS4 it sounds like MS gets what us gamers want.
Click to expand...

With the games MS showed i expect 60fps .
A sim and a fighting gaming must be 60fps don't see why people making it to be some big deal when it was the same way this gen .
If Sony showed GT at 30fps then i would have to go crazy .
 
lovegames718 said:
Sony could probably make every game on ps4 1080p at 60fps or beyond!!!!!
Click to expand...

And it's a damn shame that they're not.

lovegames718 said:
but the games would lose that graphical fidelity. My point still stands its easier to make certain games 1080p 60fps when their not graphically taxing or just simple compared to complex, realistic looking 3d games. Again If developers on Play station cut corners, made the game a cartoon fest and simple any game could be 1080p 60fps.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your language here. "Cutting corners" implies laziness, but choosing visuals that support the gameplay is just one of many tradeoffs that have to be made in the development process. Deliberately choosing to make a game stylized is a perfectly legitimate decision for developers to make, and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with taking the easy way out.

lovegames718 said:
It still stands its silly to compare a cute racing game like Mario Kart to Killzone or any other game that isnt 1080p 60 fps on Ps4. Gran Turismo 5 on Ps3 is 1080p and hits 60 fps on ps3 but dips on occassion and is a racing game but more complex and visually stunning than Mario Kart will be on Wiu and that speaks volumes.
Click to expand...

Not really? It isn't like Mario Kart was aiming to be as realistic as possible and Nintendo just gave up. It's got cartoony graphics because they fit in with the way Nintendo wants the game to look, feel, and play.

lovegames718 said:
You dont see any complex 3d game on wiiu 1080p at 60 fps , shit you dont even see them at 1080p 30 fps.
Click to expand...

I know. The Wii U's capabilities are completely secondary to what I was trying to say.
 
Snubbers said:
As a seperate memory pool, it has it's own advantages on top of boosting theoretical total system memory bandwidth, a couple of devs on B3D have given insights into the kinds of things a seperate memory pool can offer..

But, I'm also inclined to think that the 30fps foibles being reported on PS4 could well be chalked down to unoptimised code, but then this doesn't quite jive with the 'Xbox One development is 6 months behind + their tools suck' stories that have been 'confirmed'..
Click to expand...

Lol, that's just someone spouting buzzwords. How can 32mb of ESRAM offer any side benefits when we are talking about GBs of data moving around here?
 
CrisKre said:
This is something that if people had been reading the impressions of those attending e3 they would already have heard about. News flash: ps4 games running on ps4 don't look like the second coming of Christ right now.
I'd go as far as to say wii u games looked more stable and except for a few exceptions, even better.
Hands on e3 experience was a lot different than the conferences would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...

BINGO. I can't tell you how many people I heard having this discussion on the E3 show floor. Waiting in line with my friends, hearing other groups of people talking about the games they just played as we waited our turn for the next game. A lot of the talk was about "just the games", I did not hear a lot of chatter about on-line only or DRM. A lot of people I spoke with on the floor or over heard, it was just a bunch of gamers talking about games and it was interesting to hear stuff.
 
CrisKre said:
Reports are conflicting. The screens are 720p for mario kart, but some people believe the game was running at 1080p. Either way it looks uber clean and truly fantastic.
Click to expand...

It should its a cartoony game which is Nintendos signature being that they always try to cover up system limitations with these type of games and then pass it off as awesome art style lol Like come on really?
 
WolvenOne said:
Sure it does.

Most the MS games were either running off PC's, or were relatively simple games, such as Killer Instinct. The former is a bit of a cheat, and the later isn't anywhere comparable to building a complex game, like an FPS.

This isn't a slight against fighting games incidentally. Fixed perspectives, just, make things a lot easier.
Click to expand...

That bold part would tell me you've never developed a game before...especially one that needs lightening fast online code such as in a fighter.
 
This thread is called DF Hands on...don't they usually do analysis using equipment of some type to record and analyze what's on screen??

This commentary by them is based on playing demos?? And judging framerate? Or is there some way they could have done this at E3 that would be as technically sound as in their home 'lab'?
 
My first thought is, well these are just early builds, nothing to worry about as it will all get sorted for launch.

But then I remember these consoles are launching in a little under half a year. I kind of find that alarming.
 
Durante said:
It doesn't look "uber clean". In the least.
Click to expand...

I've been confused the last couple of days with the Mario Kart 8 praise myself. It's aesthetically pleasing to be sure, but people are acting like it's some graphical marvel. I was very indifferent to it visually, especially coming off Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing Transformed on PC. Dat downsampling, and 60fps Split-Screen on PC? What trickery is this?
 
shandy706 said:
That bold part would tell me you've never developed a game before...especially one that needs lightening fast online code such as in a fighter.
Click to expand...
Erm, what? That has nothing at all to do with the discussion. Which is about performance, particularly graphics performance. Are you saying that fixed perspectives in 3D games offer no advantage in terms of performance?
 
Snubbers said:
As a seperate memory pool, it has it's own advantages on top of boosting theoretical total system memory bandwidth, a couple of devs on B3D have given insights into the kinds of things a seperate memory pool can offer..

But, I'm also inclined to think that the 30fps foibles being reported on PS4 could well be chalked down to unoptimised code, but then this doesn't quite jive with the 'Xbox One development is 6 months behind + their tools suck' stories that have been 'confirmed', or the "Sony first party devs are gods'..

Personnaly, I think that they had 'targets' and 60fps just isn't one of those for whatever reason, I don't remotely think MS are suddenly so clever as to have known Sony first parties where targetting 30 and so went for 60 to make a point because I'm not seeing them make a huge song and dance about it..
Click to expand...

Beyond 3D has pretty much destroyed their credibility in the run up to the Xbox one unveil.
 
Hawk269 said:
BINGO. I can't tell you how many people I heard having this discussion on the E3 show floor. Waiting in line with my friends, hearing other groups of people talking about the games they just played as we waited our turn for the next game. A lot of the talk was about "just the games", I did not hear a lot of chatter about on-line only or DRM. A lot of people I spoke with on the floor or over heard, it was just a bunch of gamers talking about games and it was interesting to hear stuff.
Click to expand...

FYI, overheard from friend in industry that game developers, not the publishers, are vocally distraught with Xbox One's restrictions at E3.
 
AGoodODST said:
My first thought is, well these are just early builds, nothing to worry about as it will all get sorted for launch.

But then I remember these consoles are launching in a little under half a year. I kind of find that alarming.
Click to expand...

Optimization happens towards the end of development of titles. You also have to understand that every demo was made a while ago. It takes a lot to have a playable demo and usually the demo's are not using the latest developments that the teams implemented. Based on what I played I was impressed a lot by both consoles and knowing that these demo's were old I have really no concerns for the games that I know to be launch titles.

The scary thing is that these are launch titles and do not really show what these machines are capable of. Future for these machines are going to be impressive to say the least.
 
Hawk269 said:
BINGO. I can't tell you how many people I heard having this discussion on the E3 show floor. Waiting in line with my friends, hearing other groups of people talking about the games they just played as we waited our turn for the next game. A lot of the talk was about "just the games", I did not hear a lot of chatter about on-line only or DRM. A lot of people I spoke with on the floor or over heard, it was just a bunch of gamers talking about games and it was interesting to hear stuff.
Click to expand...

Wiiu games looked more stable? Wtf lol Wiiu games dontt even look or play better than most of their current gen counterparts. Wiiu hasnt even been in the next gen comparison conversations for the most part because they arent even beating out current gen. You can even look at the past at games like zombi u looking mediocre and the multiplats often times performing worse than its current gen counterparts last year. Fast forward now to Pikmin, Monolith, etc... and they dont look better than anything from ps3 from a few years ago like Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, GOW, etc.....

E3 is focused on Ps4 and Xbone for a reason their just in a different leaugue than what Nintendo is offering. Wiiu games are still fighting to be called ebtter than ps3 and Xbox 360 games so plz stop it!!!! Cartoony and lots of colors dont change the simplicity of most Nintendo games and the fact they are hardly taxing on the limited hardware.
 
Metalmurphy said:
people are just crazy, the game looks great even on the crappy offscreen videos. And when you factor inthe day/ night cycle and dynamic weather...
Click to expand...

No...no it does not, not at all...at 1080p.

The weird lighting that shifts/warps around on the trees as they come into view really messes with my head. Lots of blur and interior aliasing too.

The game looks good on low-res offscreens because smaller, blurrier video helps cover things up.

The technical look at these games isn't some made up, for fun, write-up. They were pretty honest when it came to all games and systems they looked at.

CrisKre said:
I does hands on. More stable than most things I played for the ps4. If not all.
Click to expand...

While I love the art style, the Aliasing is horrid.
 
Y2Kev said:
Beyond 3D has pretty much destroyed their credibility in the run up to the Xbox one unveil.
Click to expand...
Some people on the B3D forum destroyed their credibility. If we want a more nuanced discussion of GAF as something more than a hivemind, we should also offer the same for other communities.

CrisKre said:
I does hands on. More stable than most things I played for the ps4. If not all.
Click to expand...
"Stable" and "clean" are two entirely separate things. A 3D game with no AA (and sub-retina resolution) will never look "clean", never mind "uber clean".
 
lovegames718 said:
It should its a cartoony game which is Nintendos signature being that they always try to cover up system limitations with these type of games and then pass it off as awesome art style lol Like come on really?
Click to expand...

Why can't it be both? It's an art style that suits the game and fits within the limitations of the hardware. That's not being lazy or covering your ass, that's being smart and working with what you have.

badb0y said:
Lol, that's just someone spouting buzzwords. How can 32mb of ESRAM offer any side benefits when we are talking about GBs of data moving around here?
Click to expand...

Well, the EDRAM in the Xbox 360 served as a middleman that was just big enough to hold the framebuffer and do anti-aliasing on each frame to it before passing it off to be sent to the display, and it could potentially do this fast enough to give you 4x MSAA didn't "cost" any other system resources. In practice, a lot of games didn't use it this way, but that's the theoretical advantage of having a chunk of EDRAM or ESRAM like that.
 
I am not going to wait another gen for 60fps

Patcher promised me 240fps after all so I assume something is wrong here.
 
Well, the tide is turning.

I'm curious if these games will be in better shape at launch. I'm guessing they're coming in hot.
 
It's baffling to me that PS4 games are leaving a worse impression than those on the X1--isn't the former supposed to be indisputably more powerful?
 
Can someone who KNOWS please explain how much can be done in 6-8 months of game development?

It seems that a game takes 18-24 months to make...so 6 months is 25%-35% of the development time (based on my caveman brain understanding of this)..people seem to act like "oh too late guess the devs are just gonna play ping pong till the disc start pressing" but in terms of total time it sounds like you could get a ton of tweaking done in this time since the bulk of the game is created and running to a good extent.

??? (There should probably be a thread on this type stuff here)
 
WolvenOne said:
Sure it does.

Most the MS games were either running off PC's, or were relatively simple games, such as Killer Instinct. The former is a bit of a cheat, and the later isn't anywhere comparable to building a complex game, like an FPS.

This isn't a slight against fighting games incidentally. Fixed perspectives, just, make things a lot easier.
Click to expand...

Some games where running on XB1 hardware (Forza 5 notably).. MS are behind and a lot of devs clearly don't have final hardware, or are way behind the curve, but MS seemed to have enough first party devs running on XB1 to show that it's performing..

Sony are alledgedly miles ahead in power/development and are clearly in need of optimisation?

I think my opinion that they are just putting graphics ahead of framerate is more plausible to me.

Proelite said:
Nah, there are still bad Xbox One news to come.
Click to expand...
Cool, what's coming??
 
Durante said:
Some people on the B3D forum destroyed their credibility. If we want a more nuanced discussion of GAF as something more than a hivemind, we should also offer the same for other communities.
Click to expand...

I won't say that even mods on B3D get awful used to go there all the time .
Now it's just a waste of time since the board so small and most members bias which makes talking about certain things a pain .
 
This is not what I want to hear. If Battlefield 4 can produce the kind of visuals it does and is going for 60 fps, there is no excuse. Framerate dips into the 20's going forward is a no go.
 
Hawk269 said:
Optimization happens towards the end of development of titles. You also have to understand that every demo was made a while ago. It takes a lot to have a playable demo and usually the demo's are not using the latest developments that the teams implemented. Based on what I played I was impressed a lot by both consoles and knowing that these demo's were old I have really no concerns for the games that I know to be launch titles.

The scary thing is that these are launch titles and do not really show what these machines are capable of. Future for these machines are going to be impressive to say the least.
Click to expand...

Oh I know you can't judge the machines capabilites off launch titles, maybe I was just expecting a wee bit more. Hopefully these launch games will see a lot of improvement in the coming months (though saldy I think 1080p/60fps is going to be a bit of a pipe dream).
 
Durante said:
Some people on the B3D forum destroyed their credibility. If we want a more nuanced discussion of GAF as something more than a hivemind, we should also offer the same for other communities.

"Stable" and "clean" are two entirely separate things. A 3D game with no AA (and sub-retina resolution) will never look "clean", never mind "uber clean".
Click to expand...
Im stating in gameplay it looks clean as well. The trailer had some framerate and iq issues that the game itself while running did not.
 
While 1080p would be nice, I'd rather have 60fps or something close to it if a choice has to be made between the two. I'd rather a game play good and look ok than look great but play like crap.
 
Jimmy Stav said:
It's baffling to me that PS4 games are leaving a worse impression than those on the X1--isn't the former supposed to be indisputably more powerful?
Click to expand...
Well, they've said the PS4 devkits were underpowered back in February and weren't accounting for the ram upgrade.
 
I can understand Killzone being 30fps, but I pray that multiplats are not 30fps. That would be embarrassing. Hopefully Watch Dogs is 60fps or I'm getting it on PC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[DigitalFoundry] Phantom Blade Zero Hands-On - First Look - Unreal Engine With A Difference
Analysis 
25
440
kevboard replied
Dying Light: The Beast hands on with gameplay footage
41
716
12Goblins replied
Hands on: High on Life 2
33
629
Kvally replied
Borderlands 4 runs at 30FPs Docked on Nintendo Switch 2
Platform  2 3 4 5 6
270
3K
tkscz replied
Hands on: Super Meat Boy 3D
24
403
SupaComputa replied
Top Bottom