Why can't the industry give us more games like TLoU?

T

the_id

Member
I don't usually post threads but I want to pose this question to GAF - why can't we get more games like TLoU?

I just finished the The Last Of Us and what an amazing experience. In my 17 years of gaming only few games ever evoked such a strong emotional response - MGS, MGS3, HL2, FFVII, Bioshock, Bioshock Infinite, Journey, SoTC and Uncharted 2. And now TLoU.

These games, to me offered the complete package. They had excellent gameplay, story and for their time - technical achievements and innovation. To me there were more than just games. It was a complete experience.

Which brings me back to my question - why can't the industry produce more games of this quality? Is it the cost? Or is it just the lack of creativity? Or is it the push to release sequel after sequel to meet those financial year targets??

Next-gen is supposedly going to bring the cost of production down - is that going to give developers for room to exercise their creative freedom?

What do you think GAF?
 
Sequels are safer than new experiences when it comes to making money and if a developer doesn't feel like they need to push the envelope they won't.
 
Not every developer is Naughty Dog and more importantly, not every publisher is Sony.

Its that simple.
 
If all games were the same quality as the ones listed in the OP, you would think of them as average.

Bronetta said:
Not every developer is Naughty Dog and more importantly, not every publisher is Sony.

Its that simple.
Click to expand...

What is this? How is Sony more important than Naughty Dog in this equation?
 
I don't know why but I thought TLOU was only good in it's second half, the first half was quite possibly one of the most poorly paced scenarios I've played in a game.

The characters and the story are great. The gameplay works really well but has a lot of flaws - though many argue fixing these flaws (ie. AI invisibility to friendlies) would make the game less fun.

But I don't know - the gameplay to me is very similar to Manhunt, albeit less forgiving. It has a great story, but a few plot points were lifted straight out of Walking Dead (though I will admit were executed largely better than TWD was).

It's a great game but I wouldn't say it was perfect nor that it was "innovative". It just seemed to mesh together several already existing elements very well.
 
A combination of publishers being weary of risk and the tech/talent not being there. But sometimes things come together with the right team, the right publisher and the right game idea.


I think The Walking Dead game from TellTale is another example of this. Shit, i never even liked a telltale game before that... but something clicked and now I can't wait to see what they do next.
 
Can you imagine the cost of TLoU? Now imagine that number, and then remember games like Tomb Raider hardly broke even... That's why. These games are HUGE risks, and if they don't sells millions and millions of copies, they've lost money.
 
Surface of Me said:
If all games were the same quality as the ones listed in the OP, you would think of them as average.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You would appreciate them less.

You need the 'lows' to appreciate the highs. Not every game could resonate with you emotionally, before you just switch off to it entirely. If every game tried to make me cry, I'd become cold to it.

We do need more games like TLOU, but not too many.
 
what are you talking about? the industry gives us tons of games like TLoU.

the difference is TLoU can execute on those concepts where countless others fail.
 
I want something as immersive and emotional as TLoU combined with the detailed story and epicness of a JRPG. Those cutscenes we're so perfect, real and well-acted. Something like that in a large scale JRPG instead of the Tales-esque anime tropes would be amazing.
 
It boils down to talent. Naughty Dog crafted one of the best stories and universes in gaming using third person shooter mechanics they perfected with Uncharted.
 
I would just be happy if there was less of a desire to be accessible to everyone so I can get tense and challenging gameplay like this more often.
 
Bronetta said:
Not every developer is Naughty Dog and more importantly, not every publisher is Sony.

Its that simple.
Click to expand...
This is an important point. Sony is shockingly supportive of more artistic games than most of the industry, certainly moreso than the Big Three. Through them it'd either have been straight up rejected or refocused.

I'd certainly prefer this for my linear, narrative driven action games though, at least if you're not going to have mind blowing gameplay.
 
I blame the publishers for not wanting to place a risk on sales due to story and emotion. Instead they ask for more more run and gun type games for casuals.

So, publishers and developers want the easy and safe route to produce as many games and come out positive in sales. While games that focus on story and may take longer to develop (may also cause controversy) are usually put aside. So, creativity over time dies down, and we get stale AAA games until someone comes along and takes a risk, or an indie brings something new to the table.
 
Surface of Me said:
What is this? How is Sony more important than Naughty Dog in this equation?
Click to expand...

They're equally important since someone has to come up with the concept, but you also have to have someone (in this case Sony) to greenlight it. You can read some interviews where Neil and Bruce talk about how Sony basically just let them do whatever they wanted and never stepped in to change their vision. There were some things that Neil was worried that Sony would ask them to pull, but they never said anything.
 
Most companies want a quick cash-grab. So they aren't as willing to spend time and resources , or take a chance on something like this.
 
there are a lot of games like it, relatively. you enjoy well executed, linear AAA experiences based around mainstream concepts. that is a fortunate place to be.

it's people whose favourite games' OTs never get to page two (or have simply ceased to exist) who i feel for.
 
Games like BioShock (my favorite game of all time), Shadow of the Colossus, System Shock 2, are pretty much a rare breed. It takes considerable talent and a vision to pull of games of that depth and scope, and games are a young medium as it is. It will take more movements. Luckily, with the advent of indie developers, technology driving realistic development (The Last of Us was made possible by PS3 technology, I can assure you that) , the inclusion of talented voice acting, and the success of the aforementioned games paints a bright future of video games being a wonderful new medium.
 
the_id said:
Next-gen is supposedly going to bring the cost of production down - is that going to give developers for room to exercise their creative freedom?
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that with a new generation , consumers expectations are higher and thus cost of production goes up.
 
KojiKnight said:
Can you imagine the cost of TLoU? Now imagine that number, and then remember games like Tomb Raider hardly broke even... That's why. These games are HUGE risks, and if they don't sells millions and millions of copies, they've lost money.
Click to expand...

I remember a quote saying that The last of us had the same budget as Uncharted. Seeing as how Uncharted 2 and 3 had a budget of around 30 million to 50 million, I'd say that TLoU is around that ballpark in sales.

It's a far cry from Tomb raider which had a budget of $100 million which required 5-10 million to recoup and that's without adding in massive advertising costs.

Great AAA games can be produced cheap but it requires a talented team and enough faith and trust that they will produce a great enough product within a certain budget.
 
ghst said:
there are a lot of games like it, relatively. you enjoy well executed, linear AAA experiences based around mainstream concepts. that is a fortunate place to be.
Click to expand...

exactly. this is nothing new. the only difference is the "acting" (so to speak) is better, the writing is better, the graphics are better, the shooting mechanics aren't terrible.

the whole industry is obsessed with the one thing TLoU does right—and what TLoU gets right more than anything is polish. It's not breaking new ground, it's an encapsulation and fine-tuning of all the trends of the generation up until this point.
 
We have many of those. You just ignore it due to reviews, Megacritic and stuff. If you want well resonating Story, There is Nier and Deadly Premonition. If you want well polished gameplay there is Syndicate and so on and so fourth.
 
Budget is also part of time, but you can see money thrown at something like AC and money having to be used for games that are in development for a while.

Dragon Age: Origins was great because it was in development for a long time.
Sleeping Dogs was great because it was in development for a long time.
Obviously there are cases where it's been in development so long that the teams had major shakeups(Duke Nukem Forever) but when it's an experienced, dedicated team with their focus set on their game and given the time to do it, they can do something great.

It's why I have high hopes for GTA 5 because it's not being rushed out like an Ubisoft title.
Eusis said:
He may focus on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the silent threat were really rentals. I DID rent TLoU versus buying it... though I liked it enough I may grab it once it's around half off on PSN.
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And then after that it'll be Steam Sales. It'll always be something.
 
TLOU is a damn masterpiece. You've got to have at least one genius (probably many) working on a game to deliver something that good. It's better than 90% of movies from a narrative standpoint.
 
jtb said:
the whole industry is obsessed with the one thing TLoU does right—and what TLoU gets right more than anything is polish. It's not breaking new ground, it's an encapsulation and fine-tuning of all the trends of the generation up until this point.
Click to expand...

But that can some times be groundbreaking. Look at Resident Evil 4. There isn't anything in there that it did first. But it did everything better than every game before it so it became something that developers looked at and tried to mimic.
 
nizerifin said:
TLOU is a damn masterpiece. You've got to have at least one genius (probably many) working on a game to deliver something that good. It's better than 90% of movies from a narrative standpoint.
Click to expand...

Speaks from the guy with the Daniel Plainview avatar, one of the best movies ever! I completely agree. Within its genre, its a masterwork.
 
So I hear that this game is extremely overrated and the story is cliche. Plus too much stealth in a game that has shitty stealth mechanics. And detective mode hearing. Basically everything it does has been done better elsewhere.

Why do you guys believe its amazing?
 
The Last of Us is fantastic but I don't think it's really innovative or unique in the market.

There's a ton of other genres and games out there that we should be asking this question for.
 
the_id said:
Which brings me back to my question - why can't the industry produce more games of this quality? Is it the cost? Or is it just the lack of creativity? Or is it the push to release sequel after sequel to meet those financial year targets??
Click to expand...

You forgot the most obvious answer of all: lack of comparable talent.
 
JokerOfSpades said:
So I hear that this game is extremely overrated and the story is cliche. Plus too much stealth in a game that has shitty stealth mechanics. And detective mode hearing. Basically everything it does has been done better elsewhere.

Why do you guys believe its amazing?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've heard a bunch of bullshit.
 
SolidSnakex said:
But that can some times be groundbreaking. Look at Resident Evil 4. There isn't anything in there that it did first. But it did everything better than every game before it so it became something that developers looked at and tried to mimic.
Click to expand...

true. though I would argue what RE4 accomplished using gameplay was far more significant than anything TLoU does, namely the control scheme + camera. it basically set the template for every third person game with a gun that followed it. a bit like Gears and cover. it may not have been first (and others may have been in development concurrently), but it certainly set the trend for cover based shooters. those games "added" (or at least set the standard) new ingredients to the formula, while TLoU is more like... a perfection of the dish, so to speak.

we'll see how much influence TLoU has on the industry going forward; I guess I'm just skeptical of what can be taken away from it that hasn't already been done before. (this is hardly a bad thing, being innovative is not an inherently good thing in itself if you can't execute on that potential)
 
When you figure money, time, marketing etc. It actually adds up to you would kind of understand why not all devs can pull it off. Then you need a pub that is laxed enough to let you basically do whatever. That by itself is enough of a problem.

Sony was light on them because they proved there worth. The same way EA basically let Dice do whatever they want at this point.
 
If anything, I think the industry is trying too much to give us games like The Last of Us, or to a a greater extent, Uncharted. The triple A linear cinematic story-driven experience has been done many times, but only a few times has it been done right.
 
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