Heh. Couldn't disagree more. I played Phantasy Star 1 for the first time ever in 2007 and it blew my mind and became one of my favorite games of all time immediately.
Are you playing the retranslation? That might improve your experience.
For only being released a year later Ys 1 >>> The Legend of Zelda
- Thread starter FloatOn
- Start date
Are you playing the retranslation? That might improve your experience.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
it saddens me deeply
SupraDarky
Member
One thing I didn't like about Ys 1 is the lack of variety in the monsters' attacks. They basically all move around the same way trying to bump into you, which means the monsters are simply growing stronger in terms of HP and Damage (and of course, new skins), making for a pretty dull experience.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I love Zelda and the Ys series.
With that said, I really think with Ys, the name of the series is the reason why it's virtually unknown. It's just a odd title. I had no idea how to pronounce it until like a couple of years ago.
If it had a more recognizeable title and was backed by a bigger publisher like Square Enix or Nintendo, maybe it could've been as big as Zelda or Final Fantasy.
I just can't wait for the Vita game! Glad this series has stayed strong and getting localized.
With that said, I really think with Ys, the name of the series is the reason why it's virtually unknown. It's just a odd title. I had no idea how to pronounce it until like a couple of years ago.
If it had a more recognizeable title and was backed by a bigger publisher like Square Enix or Nintendo, maybe it could've been as big as Zelda or Final Fantasy.
I just can't wait for the Vita game! Glad this series has stayed strong and getting localized.
Oath is great on Vita
Oh, yeah, Double Boost makes the game a lot easier. If memory serves you'd even restore health when dealing damage, so it definitely helps a lot, especially on bosses where you're sometimes beating them with little to no HP left, haha.
Anyway, as for the rest of the series, I think I'm actually a bit of a weird fan compared to most, because Ys Seven is definitely my favourite Ys game, and probably one of my favourite games of all time. I was a bit skeptical before playing it and always thought I wouldn't enjoy it all that much due to the lack of a jump button, but in the end, it was quite the opposite. I like jumping in Oath and Origin, but I also really liked rolling and flash guarding in Seven. Sure, FG was pretty broken once mastered (and they seem to have made it a bit better in Celceta), but still a fun mechanic that required some skill to properly use.
Still, really enjoyed the more robust RPG elements thrown into it, such as the skills and crafting, and felt like it was a pretty welcome change. Plus, while I can definitely see why some people would not be very fond of the story, it felt like an Ys plot to me, and that's what matters. More important was that the execution was spot-on, with Falcom making brilliant use of their already fantastic soundtracks to enhance a bunch of scenes. This is probably one of my favourite things in their games. Origin with Genesis Beyond the Beginning after you know what happens in Yunica's story, Seven with Legend of the Five Great Dragon (oh god <3) and so on.
Romars202129
Member
Thanks, I believe I'll load up steam right now and give it a look.
mullet2000
Member
I know this wasn't directed at me at all, but:
As a huge Ys fan the issue I have with seven is it's the fundamental opposite of the other Ys games in a lot of ways.
For example, most Ys games give you a small number of abilities and equipment which all serve a purpose (and in the case of equipment are each a massive jump in you attack and defense). One spell will let you break walls, one will let you stay in the air after a jump, etc. Ys Seven has a large number of abilities - each of which mostly don't serve much of a purpose other than being another attack.
My biggest issue is with bosses. In the other games Boss battles are quick but very skill based. Much like, say, Ninja Gaiden Black - if you do a boss perfectly it can last like 30 seconds, it's just challenging to master it so well. Every move you make matters. In Seven bosses have tons of HP you just have to skilllessly mash through for minutes on end. Not fun in my opinion.
Plus, there's just way too much bad dialogue in Seven, Most of the other games are relatively quick and to the point, and even when they aren't it doesn't happen often. In Seven even if I was holding skip it would just take forever to get through all the dialogue.
Seven's still a good game...it's just not what I come to Ys for. I hope the Vita game improves on some of Seven's flaws.
SpaceDrake
Member
Ehhh. I am a huge Ys fan, but if we're comparing Ys 1 and the very first Zelda, I have to admit the original Zelda wins out because the proper original Ys was a lot jankier than what we get to play today. The Ys 1 on Steam is the result of a decade of refinement and tweaking. The original has far less forgiving hit detection, far worse diagonal movement (and IIRC the PC-88 original-original lacked this entirely), perhaps slightly better graphics, but also didn't move nearly as fast as the version we have now. And it had basically no real puzzling at all - Zelda 1's dungeons were a lot more involved and rewarded experimentation a lot more. Ys I is from a very hardware-limited 8-bit school of design, and the early games show it.
If I'm being entirely honest? As good as the Eternal/Complete remakes of I and II were, I don't think the series truly hit its stride until Ys VI - in 2003. That's the game that really gave the series a distinct identity and refined the gameplay into something unique. Of course, that's the foundation which every single title since has been built on, so the entire "Ark Engine" era and beyond has just been one of constantly amazing games. And now all those amazing games are getting the recognition they deserve. Feels good, man.
If I'm being entirely honest? As good as the Eternal/Complete remakes of I and II were, I don't think the series truly hit its stride until Ys VI - in 2003. That's the game that really gave the series a distinct identity and refined the gameplay into something unique. Of course, that's the foundation which every single title since has been built on, so the entire "Ark Engine" era and beyond has just been one of constantly amazing games. And now all those amazing games are getting the recognition they deserve. Feels good, man.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
If you're enjoying Ys I, you may as well move onto II, but for me Oath is the very height of the series. Such a treat to play through.
Ys games have some pretty weird balance issues in general. Oath is extremely stat-dependent. Make sure you buy the gear as soon as possible and maybe level up a little. Just a couple levels in Oath can be the difference from barely being able to damage a boss to being nearly invincible yourself.
While it's true that the Ys 1 available on Steam is heavily remade in terms of graphics/interface/controls, the rest of the game is quite faithful (outside of the additional intro part). And your point about diagonal movement and stuff doesn't seem particularly relevant simply because the games it's being compared to in this thread don't have that either. When you look at the original release of Ys 1 and put it against the original versions of its peers, it's super impressive.
I honestly feel this is just crazy. Ys 2 is a masterpiece, and 6, while definitely a good game, was actually met with disappointment by a lot of fans at first.
And Ys 7/Celceta are definitely not built on any foundation of Ys 6's. They totally threw everything from that era out.
Nightengale
Member
I personally love SEVEN more than other installments in the franchise.
Admittedly, there were some aspects of the game that fell flat compared to previous games in terms of gameplay, but I really liked how Falcom tried to layer everything a bit deeper in both the scale and scope of the storytelling, abilities, party, combat dynamics, etc. It made for an overall richer experience, I felt.
I agree with mullet of a lot of those points, and the dynamism of the 'core combat' with bosses were definitely lost a bit in SEVEN. But all the other things that SEVEN did was a good addition, overall. Some things could be better, admittedly.
Some may not like that SEVEN/Celceta is throwing away what was built on the Ark Engine platform (Naphitism/Oath), but I do feel that the series is headed in a good direction overall, and I'm happy that Ys is getting the recognition it deserves.
Gimme back jump please.
Admittedly, there were some aspects of the game that fell flat compared to previous games in terms of gameplay, but I really liked how Falcom tried to layer everything a bit deeper in both the scale and scope of the storytelling, abilities, party, combat dynamics, etc. It made for an overall richer experience, I felt.
I agree with mullet of a lot of those points, and the dynamism of the 'core combat' with bosses were definitely lost a bit in SEVEN. But all the other things that SEVEN did was a good addition, overall. Some things could be better, admittedly.
Some may not like that SEVEN/Celceta is throwing away what was built on the Ark Engine platform (Naphitism/Oath), but I do feel that the series is headed in a good direction overall, and I'm happy that Ys is getting the recognition it deserves.
Gimme back jump please.
Matt Attack
Member
Ys 1 was great. Killer soundtrack and an incredibly tight experience, even if it took me a little bit to really "get" the bump system. Once you do get into it though, the sheer speed of the experience is just incredibly satisfying. It's not my favorite game in the series, but it is still damn good.
I don't have I and II as my favourites either, but I guess I agree here. Ys 6 is probably my least liked Ys title from their late PC/PSP crop. A lot of it felt a bit rough around the edges, and I could never really get into how the magic worked in the game. That said though, it was their first experience with that style, so it's forgiveable, and as Falcom usually does, the following releases vastly improved upon the foundation set by Napishtim, seeing as both Felghana and Origin are among the most loved games by fans.
On the other hand, I can't help but imagine what fans thought when VI came out. I mean, from the top of my head, I think there were a couple years between Ys V and Ys VI, and Ys V itself is... well, not exactly what I'd call a proper Ys game, lol. It must've been a pretty great feeling, starting Ys VI and being blasted with what's my favourite track from that game, RELEASE OF THE FAR WEST OCEAN.
Even more amazing is that while those Chronicles arrangements by Jindo and the jdk Band are all damn awesome, Koshiro and Ishikawa's stuff from back in the day are still pretty damn incredible. I mean, come on, late 80s and they were pulling off stuff like this. It's amazing!
Exactly this.
I mean, as long as it doesn't devolve into a total flame war I'm good with comparing and contrasting games. I really enjoyed the Quake 3 vs Unreal Tournament thread awhile back for example.
The first Zelda dominated due to marketing and the fact that NES was a huge success. I have no doubt that there were other similar games during that time that stomped Zelda in quality.
Not that Zelda was bad, I loved it. But to assume it was the absolute best quality in action RPG's is naive.
Not that Zelda was bad, I loved it. But to assume it was the absolute best quality in action RPG's is naive.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Out of the Ys games on the Vita, which are best? I've never played the series before, and think I'd like to give it a shot.
There's only one actual Vita Ys title, which is Ys: Memories of Celceta. This one, however, still hasn't been released in english. It's slated for Fall, though XSEED still hasn't given us a definite date.
On the other hand, if own a Vita you can pick up from PSN three different Ys titles that were released on PSP. Ys: The Oath in Felghana, Ys Seven and Ys I & II Chronicles. They're all good games, but all quite different from one another, too. Felghana is a mix of platforming and a-rpg/hack'n'slashy combat, whereas Seven retains the fast paced combat but loses the platforming elements in favour of a more RPG-ish experience, with systems such as crafting and a bigger number of different skills. Lastly, Ys I & II are remakes of the first two games in the series, but they use a 'bump' combat system, where there's no action key to attack, instead you just ram into them avoiding their weapons and deal damage. It's very simple, but the game's got its own charm.
I'd say your best bet is YouTube'ing videos for all the above and seeing which one fits your style best. They're all good games to start with, since the plots are usually self-contained, so you won't be missing much by playing one before the other. Personally, I'd say go for either Seven or Felghana, seeing as they're more recent a better indicator of what the series is "at present", and then pick up Ys I & II later if you find yourself liking them. They're all going for like $15 on the american PS Store, so it's a steal!
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Awesome, thanks for the thorough response!
D.Lo
Member
it effectively invented the genre, so yes it was the best. And honestly it wasn't matched in what it did for years. Ys is a much different thing.
Yea, I dig ys but that comparison is pretty bold and unnecessary.
Against hydlide though...
Dark Octave
Banned
I remember seeing Ys as a kid in magazines and staying away from it simply because I never understood what it was. I remember seeing side scrolling versions and top down view versions. Then it was advertised for strange systems like the NEC Turbo Grafix 16 and PC.
Not to mention I had no clue how to even pronounce the thing.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Even Ys 5?
Also for those that got there hands on Celceta, how is it different from the original 4? I know the gameplay takes a lotta cues from 7 but does it do anything different/improve on anything?
Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
Did you try
wearing the silver equipment? It's subtly hinted in the game that he's "allergic" to Cleria metal. Does a bit more damage.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I definitely agree, Ys 1 had much better music and the boss fights were really fun.
Ys I & II Chronicles are some of my favorite games ever. I had a pretty amazing time with those two, and I sorta count them as 1 game for obvious reason. At the very least, I sure like them more than the original Zelda, or even Zelda II.
That said, I did finish Felghana, but.. well. But, well. I did love it, sure, the bosses were a highlight, but it's completely different. I & II were much more up my ally.
I played Ys Seven and got up to very close to the final boss, and stopped. I wanted to stop a lot earlier but an abundance of free time allowed it to happen, I guess. I've accepted that Ys became something completely different from the first two entries (and look at that, you could swap "Ys" for "Zelda" in the sentence all the same, haha)
That said, I did finish Felghana, but.. well. But, well. I did love it, sure, the bosses were a highlight, but it's completely different. I & II were much more up my ally.
I played Ys Seven and got up to very close to the final boss, and stopped. I wanted to stop a lot earlier but an abundance of free time allowed it to happen, I guess. I've accepted that Ys became something completely different from the first two entries (and look at that, you could swap "Ys" for "Zelda" in the sentence all the same, haha)
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Yes, make sure you equip
the silver sword
You have to try to kill kim as fast as possible while hoping you don't get stuck by the disappearing floor tiles, don't even bother trying to avoid all the shit he throws at you.
yeah, everything I noticed the thing with the
silver equipment
disappearing floor tiles as you say.
Ys 5 is by far the worst Ys.
Ys Celceta is different from both other Ys 4 games in pretty much every way. Gameplay-wise, it's just an expanded Ys 7. Timing on flash guard is tightened considerably, and they added flash dodging. There's also an equipment upgrading system. It takes the Ys 4 characters and does completely different things with them, in a totally different story. The result is that we have three completely different Ys 4 games.
I still have my pattern for defeating him engrained in my head from beating Ys for my first time a couple weeks ago, trial & errored & memorized little by little. It was by far the most frustrating part of the game as far as I was concerned, but was the first time I bothered to try out the different soundtrack options since I had to keep replaying it, so that was cool.
I think I'm finally going to delve into Ys II now that I've seen Aeana harping on about it.
Four if you count the PS2 version, which was also significantly different from the original two. Ys IV is just... confusing.
Anyway, just wanted to hop in and say two things:
One, it's awesome to see such love for Ys on here. You guys rule.
And two, I agree that it's not really fair to compare Ys and Zelda, but mostly because that's not really where the biggest basis for comparison lies! The original Xanadu from 1985, Falcom's first breakout hit, is much more Zelda-like than Ys, and may even have been an inspiration for Zelda since it predated the game by two years. If you ever get a chance to check it out, I highly recommend it -- it's visually ugly, mechanically a bit clunky by today's standards and HARD AS NAILS (with ample opportunities to get yourself literally stuck so badly that you have no choice but to reset the game and play from scratch, for which it makes no apologies whatsoever)... but damn is it amazing for 1985. That was back when most of us were still playing Atari and Intellivision games -- when games that actually had endings were a rarity, and points were all most gamers thought about. And then Falcom came along and created something that was years ahead of its time, helping to shape the course of all JRPGs that followed.
The Falcom of the '80s was amazing. They were pretty much unstoppable innovators. And while they aren't quite blazing trails in the same way these days, the quality of their games really hasn't dropped at all in these past 30 years. They're a remarkable developer, and really exemplify everything I love about this medium.
-Tom
Four if you count the PS2 version, which was also significantly different from the original two. Ys IV is just... confusing.
Anyway, just wanted to hop in and say two things:
One, it's awesome to see such love for Ys on here. You guys rule.
And two, I agree that it's not really fair to compare Ys and Zelda, but mostly because that's not really where the biggest basis for comparison lies! The original Xanadu from 1985, Falcom's first breakout hit, is much more Zelda-like than Ys, and may even have been an inspiration for Zelda since it predated the game by two years. If you ever get a chance to check it out, I highly recommend it -- it's visually ugly, mechanically a bit clunky by today's standards and HARD AS NAILS (with ample opportunities to get yourself literally stuck so badly that you have no choice but to reset the game and play from scratch, for which it makes no apologies whatsoever)... but damn is it amazing for 1985. That was back when most of us were still playing Atari and Intellivision games -- when games that actually had endings were a rarity, and points were all most gamers thought about. And then Falcom came along and created something that was years ahead of its time, helping to shape the course of all JRPGs that followed.
The Falcom of the '80s was amazing. They were pretty much unstoppable innovators. And while they aren't quite blazing trails in the same way these days, the quality of their games really hasn't dropped at all in these past 30 years. They're a remarkable developer, and really exemplify everything I love about this medium.
-Tom
This was great to read about the company history. I had no idea about this game Xanadu was and so I looked it up, from what I understand one of my favorite NES games growing up Faxanadu is a side story of it. This alone has me interested in playing Xanadu one day.
I finally managed to beat Dark Fact by the way everyone. Really stressful stuff. Is Ys 2 a little more forgiving?
mullet2000
Member
Yes, there's nothing in Ys 2 quite like Dark Fact in Ys 1. I think Dark Fact is just BS, personally. Not fun at all.
Ys 2 is over all a much better game too! So look forward to it.
this is good to hear. I'll probably dive in tomorrow afternoon.
Faxanadu is a great game, though it's VERY different from Xanadu. Xanadu plays out like a side-scroller when you're out in the "overworld," except when you touch an enemy, you enter an overhead-view battle scene where you attack either with spells or Ys-style bump combat (which kind of comes across like a reverse take on the Zelda 2 overworld, come to think of it!). There are also dungeons you can enter, though (usually just referred to as "towers"), which function exactly like dungeons in Zelda -- all overhead, all room-based flip-screen affairs with enemies and treasures and one-way locked doors and dark areas and all that other good stuff. And one tower in each "floor" of the overworld features a side-scrolling boss battle, about half of which are protecting crowns (the items you need to gather in order to get to and defeat the final boss). The Zelda comparisons are minor outside of the towers, but inside, it really is an incredibly easy comparison to make.
Here's a video introducing the game's very first tower:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JntkLrrbTlg
Note that the entire game is in English. This was true of a lot of PC games back then, as English text just plain took up less space and was easier to work with than Japanese text in a lot of cases. And it also makes the game completely playable to English-speakers, as long as you learn HOW to play it beforehand.
...Also, since you mentioned Faxanadu, note that the Xanadu series did continue over time, with the most recent entry being 2005's "Xanadu Next" for PC and... (sigh)... N-Gage. The PC version is incredible, and really feels like a modern-day successor to Faxanadu. It may be my favorite Falcom game, or one of them at the very least -- it's really amazing, and has an atmosphere as thick as pea soup. The N-Gage version... tries to be like its PC big brother, but the N-Gage can't really handle it, so it just kind of feels like it's about to crash at any moment.
-Tom
I've JUST played through Ys Book I & II (Ys I and Ys II remake) on the TurboGrafx-CD. These games are so good. The soundtrack is FACEMELTINGLY awesome and you should play the game just because of it.
Awesome boss theme
There is a lot of very boring backtracking involved in both games, but given the time they were developed and released in it's understandable. Most of the bosses are also really hard and involve A LOT of trial and error because of the stupid hit boxes and hit detection.
All in all really good games!
Awesome boss theme
There is a lot of very boring backtracking involved in both games, but given the time they were developed and released in it's understandable. Most of the bosses are also really hard and involve A LOT of trial and error because of the stupid hit boxes and hit detection.
All in all really good games!
linko9
Member
I played Ys I and II on turbo CD after hearing how amazing they were from every single person on the internet. I didn't like it much. Made it through 1, quit halfway through 2. Just seemed like the battle system was completely haphazard. Because there's no invincibility frames, when you fight a boss you just die immediately a lot until you find a way to kill the boss immediately. I'm glad the later games added an attack button, I like Felghana and Origins.
I laughed too hard.
polyh3dron
Banned
Could never get into the Ys games due to the weird combat where you just bump into enemies. I did buy I & II as well as Oath in Felghana from the Summer Steam Sale though.
LOVED Faxanadu back in the day though.
LOVED Faxanadu back in the day though.
There's some very nice setpiece puzzles that you need to pay attention to figure out (they could possibly be clued a bit better, but they're there). Not really much in the way of environmental puzzles, though; it is very much mazes all the way. Zelda's far superior in those terms.
You could always make that easier for us, Mr. XSeed Person
- Weren't there a bunch of later Windows remakes?You could always make that easier for us, Mr. XSeed Person
Yes, put everything on Steam. Everything.
The bump system only applies to Ys I, II and IV (and not Celceta, but the original Ys IV). All the others have a more button-oriented combat system. You should definitely give Felghana a try.
You could always make that easier for us, Mr. XSeed Person
The only significantly updated remake, to my knowledge, is the Sega Saturn version. All the PC "remakes" barely remade the game at all, and are more like straight ports. But there does exist a straight port of the original that plays under Windows, so it's not outside the realm of possibility. The trouble would lie in marketing a game that looks like... well, see my previously-posted video.
-Tom