Adam Sessler's: On Xbox One and PS4's Resolutiongate, and Day One Patches

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Raist said:
It's just really unfortunate then that he decides to discuss that stuff right after the whole BF4 and CoD debacle.



So exactly which primordial aspects of Fallout 3's gameplay would have not been possible before?

The thing is, peole always talk about / expect enormous new possibilities. I just fail to see it. 10 times more RAM and processing power won't change anything. We're not talking about the move from 2D to 3D. This for instance, has caused major gameplay changes especially for action/adventure games and platformers.
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How many open world first person games came out on the ps2? The fact no one even tried it speaks volumes on what the quality of the game would be.
 
Derrick01 said:
I wonder how many more known Xbox fans will select that post and congratulate it. I've seen at least 4 already.
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Tobor said:
And it's a shit post being congratulated.

Dismissing or ignoring facts is not "challenging a narrative".
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I've seen a lot of garbage from you two but this takes the cake. A long and thought out post that's paragraphs long is dismissed with basically no argument? The only thing in these two posts that even has a shred of logic is an argument of semantics and you're going to discount my entire post and premise based on that? With the other not even attempting to argue it before dismissing it entirely?

You want to dismiss my quite measured and carefully written post as "a shit post" or as something that only those with a bias could understand? No, these two posts are shit posts and coming from you two I couldn't be less surprised. Though I will admit that the audacity to discount such a long post on a basis of practically no real critiques is stunning even from you.

And since you would love to assume that I'm biased and thus couldn't have possibly made any real points (despite that not even being an argument that holds up), for the record I've never owned a single Microsoft console and I never will while I've owned more than one of Sony's. My "bias" is in favor of critical thinking and not letting valid views that aren't the majority get shut down.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
So you are admitting that HE shifted the context of the news story and current debates he was addressing, not us?

OK...great.

Then what was your original complaint about context?

Are you mad that we aren't allowing him to just casually change the subject and present a "false choice" fallacy?

Well, dang us to heck for being meanies and not talking about what he wants us to talk about now. Dog-gone us for noticing that there's still that funny-looking man behind the curtain. Our bad for thinking "hey, maybe these are the droids we are looking for."

...

It's a false choice as presented by Sessler. You can notice and comment on power differences. You can notice that one system is not only more powerful, but $100 less expensive. And you can also want new experiences. In fact, it's more power that often makes truly new experiences possible.
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Have my babies please.
 
Claude Kenni said:
I've seen a lot of garbage from you two but this takes the cake. A long and thought out post that's paragraphs long is dismissed with basically no argument? The only thing in these two posts that even has a shred of logic is an argument of semantics and you're going to discount my entire post and premise based on that? With the other not even attempting to argue it before dismissing it entirely?

You want to dismiss my quite measured and carefully written post as "a shit post" or as something that only those with a bias could understand? No, these two posts are shit posts and coming from you two I couldn't be less surprised. Though I will admit that the audacity to discount such a long post on a basis of practically no real critiques is stunning even from you.

And since you would love to assume that I'm biased and thus couldn't have possibly made any real points (despite that not even being an argument that holds up), for the record I've never owned a single Microsoft console and I never will while I've owned more than one of Sony's. My "bias" is in favor of critical thinking and not letting valid views that aren't the majority get shut down.
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I didn't say a word about your post though.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Yes. Context is key here.

And the context in this very case is a comparison between two different versions of the same game. In this case, his argument about "new experiences" or whatever is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a comparison of two different platforms on which to have more or less the same experience, in which one machine is performing at a higher level than the other.

That's the context. That's the subjject he's addressing.

So, in context, by bringing up this "new experiences" argument in a discussion about the measurable, technical differences between two versions of the same game, Sessler is not only moving the goalposts...he's trying to burn down the scoreboard.

You don't see how, in talking about two versions of the same game, this sudden blindspot towards measurable technical deficiencies in the XBone version is troubling? You honestly can't reason past his trumped-up argument about "new experiences" to see that it's a classic fallacy of "false choice?"





Look, for months we've known about the numbers. The numbers say the PS4 is the more powerful console. More FLOP performance, more ROPs, more ACEs, faster RAM, ect. We've known that. But the dialog we've gotten in response from Microsoft, (both in the media and even directly here with executives like Albert Penello and his "technical fellow" here on GAF,) the media pundits, and the XBone fans has been basically, "the numbers don't tell the whole story...wait until you see the games!"

Well, we're seeing the games. Now they want us to ignore what we're seeing.

But what we are seeing is important. The reason why multi-platform console titles are important is because, in the console world, the public doesn't have access to benchmarking results. If any multi-plat dev teams do benchmark the hardware, those results are locked behind licensing agreements and NDAs. While multiplatform games will never be a true benchmark, they are a valuable "snapshot" look at the state of the boxes and what these very smart teams of developers can wring out of them at the time.

Why is the technical performance of the box so important? Because, even though framerate and resolution are way more important than some pundits are now trying to claim, it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
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Excellent post.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Yes. Context is key here.

And the context in this very case is a comparison between two different versions of the same game. In this case, his argument about "new experiences" or whatever is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a comparison of two different platforms on which to have more or less the same experience, in which one machine is performing at a higher level than the other.

That's the context. That's the subjject he's addressing.

So, in context, by bringing up this "new experiences" argument in a discussion about the measurable, technical differences between two versions of the same game, Sessler is not only moving the goalposts...he's trying to burn down the scoreboard.

You don't see how, in talking about two versions of the same game, this sudden blindspot towards measurable technical deficiencies in the XBone version is troubling? You honestly can't reason past his trumped-up argument about "new experiences" to see that it's a classic fallacy of "false choice?"





Look, for months we've known about the numbers. The numbers say the PS4 is the more powerful console. More FLOP performance, more ROPs, more ACEs, faster RAM, ect. We've known that. But the dialog we've gotten in response from Microsoft, (both in the media and even directly here with executives like Albert Penello and his "technical fellow" here on GAF,) the media pundits, and the XBone fans has been basically, "the numbers don't tell the whole story...wait until you see the games!"

Well, we're seeing the games. Now they want us to ignore what we're seeing.

But what we are seeing is important. The reason why multi-platform console titles are important is because, in the console world, the public doesn't have access to benchmarking results. If any multi-plat dev teams do benchmark the hardware, those results are locked behind licensing agreements and NDAs. While multiplatform games will never be a true benchmark, they are a valuable "snapshot" look at the state of the boxes and what these very smart teams of developers can wring out of them at the time.

Why is the technical performance of the box so important? Because, even though framerate and resolution are way more important than some pundits are now trying to claim, it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
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This can't be quoted enough.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Well, there's no reason to "rage" at the Xbox One. However, what some represent is disingenuously framing these things as legitimate horse races where everyone is on equal footing. And this isn't a problem exclusive to gaming journalism either. Again, I think I can understand the frustration some are experiencing during these trying times where everything gets amplified to 11 due to launch hype. When the conversation is dominated by a topic that may not be particularly interesting to an individual, I can understand reaching for a more idealistic stance. However, I think that can be misguided at times.

Tech certainly isn't as important to everyone else as it is to an enthusiast community such as this (or any similar place). This is true. It's not inherently egregious to point this out. But I don't think it makes for inherently better op-eds to trivialize the role tech plays in this hobby by making potentially big discrepancies appear to be small concerns in what is otherwise anybody's game to win. Basically, I don't think just declaring "it's about the games, people" is really all that meaningful a sentiment.
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Ninja Scooter said:
But would it not irk you if every major car journalist or media outlet tried to downplay that car's inferiority and seemingly got annoyed at you for making a big deal about it?
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Well as i said before, the topic of resolution IS important to me, as personally it is a big deal to play at 1080p instead of 720p (and that's why i play on PC when i can) so i'm not making the argument that it isn't (even though it probably isn't for most people out there) and i do agree that some of the videogame press is being, as usual, dismissive and condescending, treating everyone like a "fanboy".
So yes, i understand being critical of their operating, but i still think getting overly enraged is only gonna reflect bad on whatever argument is being made.

I mean this is the reason why "lol game journalism" jokes exist, and yet every time we seem to be flabbergasted by the games-press not taking their role seriously, there's only so many times you can be surprised and hurt by someone's repeated behavior, before going "yeah, whatever".

Fortunately, with things like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, we don't even really need the spotlight this people can offer, so if they want to be shrugged into irrelevancy, it's their business.

If nobody needs the level of game critique they're willing or capable of offering, they can very easily be bypassed, in this day and age.
All the more reason not get worked up over them.
 
EmptySpace said:
it doesn't. it's the gaming press who are saying, "they don't matter". they do. a game is the sum of its parts. both versions are the exact same experience so that's out of the gate in terms of comparison. now, there are graphical differences (bf4 having lower resolution and lacking global illumination system, plus running at a lower average framerate). that's where comparisons come in because that's where comparisons can be made. and why are comparisons being made? because these are both valued at $60 no matter what console.

it's the constant and massive downplaying of these differences that is such a copout. remember when all these "journalists" pointed out every damn difference the ps3 version of a multiplat had in their reviews? "the ps3 version looks washed out. the ps3 version had some hiccups. the ps3 version had less vibrant colours. you are better off playing the xbox 360 version if you want the best version out there outside the pc.


this takes the icing on the cake:
http://www.g4tv.com/videos/43049/mx-vs-atv-reflex-playstation-3-review/
"Get the lowdown on the PlayStation 3 version of MX vs. ATV Reflex in this review. Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb discuss the drawbacks of the PS3 version of MX vs. ATV Reflex and reveal the game's lower score."

360 version = 3/5 stars
ps3 version = 2/5 stars for being graphically inferior

or this:
http://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/bayonetta-review/1900-249/?review_id=249
Much of the potential of Bayonetta--potential that's realized on the Xbox 360--is lost to technical issues on the PS3.
(yes, that's the subtext of the review).

or what about this?
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/247305/red-dead-redemptions-sub-hd-ps3-display-analysis/
"Its resolution is 640 by 1152, compared to the Xbox 360's 720 by 1280 pixels. At first glance you might say that this is only a difference of "80 pixels," but in reality, when the missing area is calculated, the PS3 suffers an 184,320 pixel deficit - or 20 per cent lower than the Xbox 360 version. This rendering resolution is then upscaled by the PS3 to be displayed on your screen."

or how about this, arstechnica?
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/05/read-dead-redemption-360-vs-ps3-our-thoughts/
"This is non-scientific, but after playing an hour of both games, and switching back and forth between the two systems on our display, it's clear that the 360 version has quite the graphical advantage. It's sharper, with much less aliasing. The faces of the characters were clearer in the opening section. Gameplay sections likewise looked better, with smoother graphics across the board. The PlayStation 3 version looked impressive, but there was a noticeable jump in quality while playing on the 360.

Keep in mind that the game doesn't look bad on the PS3—not by any stretch—but based on our time with the game and direct comparisons, the 360 version looks better. If you purchase the PS3 version of the game you're not going to be let down, but if you have the choice, pick up a copy for the 360.

Here's another reason to buy the game for the Xbox 360: if you dislike playing with strangers, there are 16 Ars Technica members in the game's thread playing online with the 360 version, compared to three on the PS3. If you're going to be playing, sign up!"


hypocrites.
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amazing... so 20% resolution difference gets game rated less and pointed as inferior, but 125% does not matter, lets just enjoy the games!
 
Pristine_Condition said:
So you are admitting that HE shifted the context of the news story and current debates he was addressing, not us?

OK...great.

Then what was your original complaint about context?

Are you mad that we aren't allowing him to just casually change the subject and present a "false choice" fallacy?

Well, dang us to heck for being meanies and not talking about what he wants us to talk about now. Dog-gone us for noticing that there's still that funny-looking man behind the curtain. Our bad for thinking "hey, maybe these are the droids we are looking for."

...

It's a false choice as presented by Sessler. You can notice and comment on power differences. You can notice that one system is not only more powerful, but $100 less expensive. And you can also want new experiences. In fact, it's more power that often makes truly new experiences possible.
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You are articulating the core issue very well. Thank you.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

That's that. Game over. Pack it up and go home, people.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Yes. Context is key here.

And the context in this very case is a comparison between two different versions of the same game. In this case, his argument about "new experiences" or whatever is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a comparison of two different platforms on which to have more or less the same experience, in which one machine is performing at a higher level than the other.

That's the context. That's the subjject he's addressing.

So, in context, by bringing up this "new experiences" argument in a discussion about the measurable, technical differences between two versions of the same game, Sessler is not only moving the goalposts...he's trying to burn down the scoreboard.

You don't see how, in talking about two versions of the same game, this sudden blindspot towards measurable technical deficiencies in the XBone version is troubling? You honestly can't reason past his trumped-up argument about "new experiences" to see that it's a classic fallacy of "false choice?"





Look, for months we've known about the numbers. The numbers say the PS4 is the more powerful console. More FLOP performance, more ROPs, more ACEs, faster RAM, ect. We've known that. But the dialog we've gotten in response from Microsoft, (both in the media and even directly here with executives like Albert Penello and his "technical fellow" here on GAF,) the media pundits, and the XBone fans has been basically, "the numbers don't tell the whole story...wait until you see the games!"

Well, we're seeing the games. Now they want us to ignore what we're seeing.

But what we are seeing is important. The reason why multi-platform console titles are important is because, in the console world, the public doesn't have access to benchmarking results. If any multi-plat dev teams do benchmark the hardware, those results are locked behind licensing agreements and NDAs. While multiplatform games will never be a true benchmark, they are a valuable "snapshot" look at the state of the boxes and what these very smart teams of developers can wring out of them at the time.

Why is the technical performance of the box so important? Because, even though framerate and resolution are way more important than some pundits are now trying to claim, it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

Knockout punch delivered. Well done, Pristine!
 
Pristine_Condition said:
And you can also want new experiences. In fact, it's more power that often makes truly new experiences possible.
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Fish Ai! Fish AI!

Pristine_Condition said:
Yes. Context is key here.

And the context in this very case is a comparison between two different versions of the same game. In this case, his argument about "new experiences" or whatever is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a comparison of two different platforms on which to have more or less the same experience, in which one machine is performing at a higher level than the other.

That's the context. That's the subjject he's addressing.

So, in context, by bringing up this "new experiences" argument in a discussion about the measurable, technical differences between two versions of the same game, Sessler is not only moving the goalposts...he's trying to burn down the scoreboard.

You don't see how, in talking about two versions of the same game, this sudden blindspot towards measurable technical deficiencies in the XBone version is troubling? You honestly can't reason past his trumped-up argument about "new experiences" to see that it's a classic fallacy of "false choice?"





Look, for months we've known about the numbers. The numbers say the PS4 is the more powerful console. More FLOP performance, more ROPs, more ACEs, faster RAM, ect. We've known that. But the dialog we've gotten in response from Microsoft, (both in the media and even directly here with executives like Albert Penello and his "technical fellow" here on GAF,) the media pundits, and the XBone fans has been basically, "the numbers don't tell the whole story...wait until you see the games!"

Well, we're seeing the games. Now they want us to ignore what we're seeing.

But what we are seeing is important. The reason why multi-platform console titles are important is because, in the console world, the public doesn't have access to benchmarking results. If any multi-plat dev teams do benchmark the hardware, those results are locked behind licensing agreements and NDAs. While multiplatform games will never be a true benchmark, they are a valuable "snapshot" look at the state of the boxes and what these very smart teams of developers can wring out of them at the time.

Why is the technical performance of the box so important? Because, even though framerate and resolution are way more important than some pundits are now trying to claim, it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
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Bravo, Bravo! Seriously where can we gather a slush pool for beer money? You deserve it.
 
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
 
Tripon said:
Difference is that the Wii embraced how different it was. The Xbox one is.claiming to be just as powerful as the ps4
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Exactly, Nintendo did not even try to fight against people saying the Wii was weaker. Microsoft on the other hand is like "We are just as powerful."
Raist said:
On a technical level? Yes. Purely on a gameplay basis? Arguable, unless we're talking about stuff related to connectivity. Which has not much do to with specs of the machines.

I mean, unless you've got amazing examples, but personally I don't see which tremendously new gameplay experiences have been brought by last gen's specs bump compared to the one before.
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Uncharted 2, Crysis, GT5, MW2, etc... Basically every game could not have been done on the PS2. Maybe you should go back and see how PS2 games actually looked and ran.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Yes. Context is key here.

And the context in this very case is a comparison between two different versions of the same game. In this case, his argument about "new experiences" or whatever is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a comparison of two different platforms on which to have more or less the same experience, in which one machine is performing at a higher level than the other.

That's the context. That's the subjject he's addressing.

So, in context, by bringing up this "new experiences" argument in a discussion about the measurable, technical differences between two versions of the same game, Sessler is not only moving the goalposts...he's trying to burn down the scoreboard.

You don't see how, in talking about two versions of the same game, this sudden blindspot towards measurable technical deficiencies in the XBone version is troubling? You honestly can't reason past his trumped-up argument about "new experiences" to see that it's a classic fallacy of "false choice?"





Look, for months we've known about the numbers. The numbers say the PS4 is the more powerful console. More FLOP performance, more ROPs, more ACEs, faster RAM, ect. We've known that. But the dialog we've gotten in response from Microsoft, (both in the media and even directly here with executives like Albert Penello and his "technical fellow" here on GAF,) the media pundits, and the XBone fans has been basically, "the numbers don't tell the whole story...wait until you see the games!"

Well, we're seeing the games. Now they want us to ignore what we're seeing.

But what we are seeing is important. The reason why multi-platform console titles are important is because, in the console world, the public doesn't have access to benchmarking results. If any multi-plat dev teams do benchmark the hardware, those results are locked behind licensing agreements and NDAs. While multiplatform games will never be a true benchmark, they are a valuable "snapshot" look at the state of the boxes and what these very smart teams of developers can wring out of them at the time.

Why is the technical performance of the box so important? Because, even though framerate and resolution are way more important than some pundits are now trying to claim, it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

Well said. Bravo!
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
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What?

He says first 1080p are expected
Here he says its not important

Yes it is important as the gamer expects a higher level of fidelity and clarity in the next gen systems. If that's not important lets stick current gen and just keep refining the engines and focus on gameplay
 
Pristine_Condition said:
So you are admitting that HE shifted the context of the news story and current debates he was addressing, not us?

OK...great.

Then what was your original complaint about context?

Are you mad that we aren't allowing him to just casually change the subject and present a "false choice" fallacy?

Well, dang us to heck for being meanies and not talking about what he wants us to talk about now. Dog-gone us for noticing that there's still that funny-looking man behind the curtain. Our bad for thinking "hey, maybe these are the droids we are looking for."

...

It's a false choice as presented by Sessler. You can notice and comment on power differences. You can notice that one system is not only more powerful, but $100 less expensive. And you can also want new experiences. In fact, it's more power that often makes truly new experiences possible.
Click to expand...
1. The context argument was about something he said months ago

2. His argument is being mis characterized by you. He moved on to a different topic. It's your fault you didn't realize it.He's arguing that next generation experiences are not defined by resolution alone like some seem to believe. His argument is that no matter the resolution of the games on the two consoles, the greatest emphasis should be on how developers are doing thongs design wise that weren't possible on the ps3/360.

He's arguing that the priorities for next gen aren't right. He agrees that the ps4 has better specs. But will they use those specs to push the areas of games that he feels should be prioritized?

A leap from one console generation to the next is magnitudes larger than the leap from consoles to pc. Because the leap isn't only about graphics. If the ps4 was only strong enough to display ps3 games at 1080p, I wouldn't upgrade. Sessler isn't comparing multiplatforms. He's arguing that we are placing too much emphasis on achieving 1080p in every game (both first and third party) that we are forgetting what will make next gen memorable.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
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He did say it is expected (something about it being their jobs). Now that one console is not meeting technical expectations or in comparison to its rival, do they (Microsoft) get a pass? According to Sessler, they do .. because its about bringing new experiences. Pristine's post sums it up.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
But would it not irk you if every major car journalist or media outlet tried to downplay that car's inferiority and seemingly got annoyed at you for making a big deal about it?
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At the end of the day, your Bluetooth enabled Kia with leather seats gets you to the same destination as your Cadillac with mostly the same experience once you're inside the car. Sure, the ride might be a little bumpier if the roads are bad, and there are aesthetic differences, but in the end you get to the same destination.

....at least that would be Sessler's argument.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
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Ok if he says 1080/60fps is expected. What's the harm in saying something like, "the Xbox One versions of the games so far fall below expectation, but in the end game design is still more important."

It seems like right now he's just saying the second part of that hypothetical statement and not the first part. Whereas in the previous gen, when the PS3 versions were weaker, he was only saying the first part, and not the second part.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
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Which is completely irrelevant in a discussion ("Resolutiongate") about multi-platform games (COD:Ghosts, BF4) running at a lower resolution on a more expensive machine.

If the discussion started about a game that is only possible on Xbox One due to it's inherent design that offered a completely different/unique experience, while also running at sub-1080p, then Sessler would have a leg to stand on. But nothing like that exists.

There are only games that are possible in the current gen, gameplay wise, with much better visuals.
 
He's arguing that the priorities for next gen aren't right. He agrees that the ps4 has better specs. But will they use those specs to push the areas of games that he feels should be prioritized?
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This is the same kind of question that is asked at the beginning of each new generation. I feel as if it has been so long since the last round of consoles launched that people have forgotten this fact. What he has said on this subject isn't interesting or unique, really.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
Click to expand...

To be fair, in the SGC talk he was saying that game design was the most important thing, so don't harp on being 1080p/60fps if you're a developer, because those things are EXPECTED. Now that one console isn't delivering on the base expectations, he's arguing that is doesn't matter - as Pristine_Condition pointed out, when you're comparing the same game on two different consoles, when one of them isn't meeting that base expectation, it should matter and game reviewers should be honest enough to point it out, not wholesale dismissing it.
 
Sessler appears to be of a mind that to acknowledge any difference in visual fidelity suddenly condemns one to care about nothing but graphics.

I have never understood this line of reasoning, it seems non-responsive. I don't think I am unique in being able to appreciate all aspects of a game, including design, mechanics, aesthetics, audio, and graphics!
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
Click to expand...

Calling others "simple minded people," is a great retort for when people don't go along with your boy's agenda to change the subject and present a false choice.

Sorry we too stoopid to unnerstand your leader's brilliaint thots, and bow to his Su-per-ee-or intelekt.
 
Curufinwe said:
If you want to see a games journalist asking some really tough questions give this a read.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/05/call-...-that-were-not-allowed-to-talk-about-4173810/
Click to expand...

Wow what an interview. It's pretty damn refreshing to see someone in "games journalism" actually do something that resembles journalism. In every other field, these types of "tough questions" would be par for the course.

Nice thing is he didn't ask them in a way as to belittle or disrespect the interviewee.
 
dark10x said:
This is the same kind of question that is asked at the beginning of each new generation. I feel as if it has been so long since the last round of consoles launched that people have forgotten this fact. What he has said on this subject isn't interesting or unique, really.
Click to expand...
And yet no one is talking about it.
 
Werhil said:
Sessler appears to be of a mind that to acknowledge any difference in visual fidelity suddenly condemns one to care about nothing but graphics.

I have never understood this line of reasoning, it seems non-responsive. I don't think I am unique in being able to appreciate all aspects of a game, including design, mechanics, aesthetics, audio, and graphics!
Click to expand...
Just think how much Metro: Last Light's atmosphere would change if the graphics were worse. The feel of that game with lower graphics is so much different than on high.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
...

Why is the technical performance of the box so important? Because, even though framerate and resolution are way more important than some pundits are now trying to claim, it won't always be about putting more pixels on screen, or refreshing the screen at a higher framerate. The same power that lets you do those things is the same power that lets you present more immersive art assets, makes an AI routine a little smarter, makes a character animate better, or makes more physics possible.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler's core point about making better games.

...and that gets us right back to Sessler being a huge hypocrite.

...and that gets us right back to the part where he and his defenders try to make US GAMERS the bad guys for pointing out his hypocrisy.
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Very well put. The whole post really. I just edited it down for space.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
There's no hypocrisy. In the SGC event he says that while 1080/60fps are expected, game design is much more important. It's the exact same thing he's saying now. He never said resolution doesn't matter, just that it's not the most important thing. But simple minded people can only interpret things as either "it's the most important thing" or "it doesn't matter at all" hence all the flaming.
Click to expand...

Please stop with this type of condescension.
 
Curufinwe said:
If you want to see a games journalist asking some really tough questions give this a read.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/05/call-...-that-were-not-allowed-to-talk-about-4173810/
Click to expand...

I posted this in the order thread... the caption of this pic is quite LOL worthy:

mark-rubin.jpg

Mark Rubin – master of diplomacy
Click to expand...
 
Curufinwe said:
If you want to see a games journalist asking some really tough questions give this a read.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/05/call-...-that-were-not-allowed-to-talk-about-4173810/
Click to expand...

Amazing interview. Several dedicated gaming websites can learn a lot form this.

GC: So the obvious assumption from all this is that the PlayStation 4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One, is that true?

MR: [acting very embarrassed] I can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t answer it on a technical level or because you’re being diplomatic?

MR: Can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t say whether you’re avoiding the question for diplomatic reasons?

MR: [embarrassed] I just can’t say anything…

[Even the attending PR guy is looking embarrassed by this point]

PR guy: It’s very hard for us to be…

GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

GC: For diplomatic reasons?

MR: Yes.
Click to expand...
 
daman824 said:
And yet no one is talking about it.
Click to expand...

It's brought up every generation apparently. What is there to talk about? What conclusion can you reach?

Yes these consoles are more powerful, but we can't evaluate if this power can be used to bring something new to the gaming space until that hypothetical game gets released.

When you saw Portal bring something new last gen was that because of hardware power or was that human creativity and ingenuity? Was this something you could even discuss at the beginning of the consoles' launches or only when the game released?

You know what you can discuss very easily right now though? Framerate and resolution and other effects like ambient occlusion, because that's a direct result of having more hardware power.
 
Maninthemirror said:
What?

He says first 1080p are expected
Here he says its not important

Yes it is important as the gamer expects a higher level of fidelity and clarity in the next gen systems. If that's not important lets stick current gen and just keep refining the engines and focus on gameplay
Click to expand...
See? He never said it's not important, just not as important as design.

sajj316 said:
He did say it is expected (something about it being their jobs). Now that one console is not meeting technical expectations or in comparison to its rival, do they (Microsoft) get a pass? According to Sessler, they do .. because its about bringing new experiences. Pristine's post sums it up.
Click to expand...
He says: "it's disappointing to see the same problem happen again", referring to sub 1080p resolutions. How does that translate to "it doesn't matter at all"?

----

Over simplifying Sessler's arguments to fit your agenda is simple minded. You're only talking in absolutes when he never speaks in such terms. Your distorting his message so you can feel justified in flaming him.
 
jedimike said:
And even though this is a gaming forum and Sessler is a gaming journalist, the data shows that the majority of time spent by consumers on consoles is NOT spent gaming. The entire experience needs to improve and I think MS chose a more balanced approach while sacrificing very little on the gaming side to achieve their goals.
Click to expand...

Your argument is like complaining that a sports car is criticized for not being able to go over 100 mph since studies show that most people rarely go that fast. A console's gaming capabilities are the main drivers of its cost and it's primary reason for its existence. Take that from the XB1 and it is a sub $200 device that is more rightfully comparable to Apple TV, Google TV or Roku than the PS4. The funny thing is that even against that competition the XB1 loses because the Kinect still makes it too expensive.

Metroid-Squadron said:
See? He never said it's not important, just not as important as design.
Click to expand...

No. He says that it should be a given that next gen games are 1080p so we don't need to talk about. It'd be like you are on a job interview and list as one of your abilities that you can put on your pants by yourself. You wouldn't expect to show up to an interview pantsless and get a pass because being able to dress yourself was not listed as a job requirement.
 
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