Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

mrklaw said:
Clear mode on my HX800 (few years old now) gives 1080 lines of motion resolution without adding interpolation or storing the backlight. I don't thnk you need to go as far as impulse mode to get good motion res these days.
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For the W900A, Impulse and Off are the only Motionflow settings available in game mode. How does clear mode give full motion resolution without interpolation or strobing?
 
EasyMode said:
What do you mean? Without backlight strobing the motion isn't good during quick panning or scrolling. Unless not using strobing is what you meant as being incorrectly set up. On my W900A Impulse mode does eliminate motion issues but the cost in brightness is a big draw back. I wish the backlights were capable greater brightness in this mode.
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I'm not familiar with Impulse mode but my f8000 has I'm sure similar processing called "Auto Motion Plus". It is phenomenal. The "Clear" setting work very well for almost all material but for very fast moving sports or panning shots I just go custom and max out the blur and dejudder settings and it is clear as you can ask and no judder at all. You can't keep it there because of the ridiculous soap opera effect it gives to 24p material but it is trivial to switch it back and forth.
 
I currently have a 720p 32" vizio, but wanna be able to experience full 1080p. What do you guys think about going for a 1080p 24" monitor if I don't sit too far away?
 
coreyerb said:
Be interested to hear thoughts on the Vizio M class as well. How is it with the Xbone?
Click to expand...

So I've put in about 5-6 hours of gaming on the Vizio M55 and I'm stoked. No lag that I could perceive and once you calibrate the set it looks wonderful. I used a mixture of CNET's settings along with the Xbox One's calibration setup.

Keep in mind it's a sub ~$1000 LED TV. This isn't to say it looks bad or anything like that, but just to keep your expectations measured.
 
offtopic said:
Yeah the high end LCDs are so close to high end plasmas in terms of video processing and black levels that the difference would be pretty much unnoticeable without test equipment a highly controlled test setting.

My opinion is that most people posting here (sure there willl be exceptions) would be better off with LCDs because almost every gamer I know spends most of their time with some to a lot of ambient light in the room. A high end plasma (vt, zt, 8500) really only has a slight edge if the room's lighting is highly controlled. If it isn't then the high end LCDs (w900, f8500) just look better as they just can put out so much more light than a plasma. I have patio doors, many windows, room lighting and reflected light off hardwoods/granite. And, yes, that is pretty extreme. However, I have a "Daylight" setting I put on my 8500 and I can watch/play any material just fine because it is putting out so much light. My old plasma? Sure, black levels were great at night but I couldn't see nearly as much detail during the day (even bright stuff like sports was sort of washed out). At night I just flip the video mode to "Night viewing" and my black levels approach the best plasmas (and are superior to low end plasmas). Sort of win-win except for the cost.

The person who posted yesterday who has a dark bedroom with no lights and heavy shades...he/she should go plasma. Other people need to really examine their viewing habits and get what works best for the way they use the tv and not necessarily how some reviewer rates it in a highly controlled test environment.
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That was me and Im definetly leaning towards plasma. Will be getting 1 on cyber monday.
My only option is Walmart since I can get 20% off. Only thing Im not sure if I can order online and pick it up at the store or if ill be limited to the store's selection
 
ban said:
So I've put in about 5-6 hours of gaming on the Vizio M55 and I'm stoked. No lag that I could perceive and once you calibrate the set it looks wonderful. I used a mixture of CNET's settings along with the Xbox One's calibration setup.

Keep in mind it's a sub ~$1000 LED TV. This isn't to say it looks bad or anything like that, but just to keep your expectations measured.
Click to expand...
I would love to get a copy of your settings as I receive mine on Monday.
 
So WalMart only has Samsung plasma TVs...and I want to get something around 45-50in...so this is my best option:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-5500-Series-PN51F5500AFXZA-51-1080p-Plasma-HDTV/26934864

Samsung 5500 Series PN51F5500AFXZA 51" 1080p Plasma HDTV

After everything it should come out to be around $725, a good deal?
Did a quick search and the 1st review said that the game mode is not good:
http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn51f5500.html

Made me think twice, since I'm mainly buying it for gaming.
What do?
 
offtopic said:
High end LCDs don't have motion issues unless set up incorrectly.
Click to expand...
It doesn't get more high end than Sony's XBR-65X900A 65-Inch 4k set and the motion wasn't nearly as good as my Panasonic or Pioneer Plasma's. Even in their own demo the soccer ball had a weird 'judder' to it that I've never seen on one of my plasma's.

iamjohn said:
I currently have a 720p 32" vizio, but wanna be able to experience full 1080p. What do you guys think about going for a 1080p 24" monitor if I don't sit too far away?
Click to expand...
I think you are better off dropping the dough and getting a cheap Vizio 1080p set if money is an issue.
 
st1llx said:
So WalMart only has Samsung plasma TVs...and I want to get something around 45-50in...so this is my best option:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Samsung-5500-Series-PN51F5500AFXZA-51-1080p-Plasma-HDTV/26934864

Samsung 5500 Series PN51F5500AFXZA 51" 1080p Plasma HDTV

After everything it should come out to be around $725, a good deal?
Did a quick search and the 1st review said that the game mode is not good:
http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn51f5500.html

Made me think twice, since I'm mainly buying it for gaming.
What do?
Click to expand...

http://www.displaylag.com - find one in your price range
 
MWS Natural said:
It doesn't get more high end than Sony's XBR-65X900A 65-Inch 4k set and the motion wasn't nearly as good as my Panasonic or Pioneer Plasma's. Even in their own demo the soccer ball had a weird 'judder' to it that I've never seen on one of my plasma's.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, the settings were almost certainly incorrect for sports if you were seeing judder. This is based on the assumption that the x900 would perform like the w900. I doubt that more pixels would affect it either way.
 
ban said:
So I've put in about 5-6 hours of gaming on the Vizio M55 and I'm stoked. No lag that I could perceive and once you calibrate the set it looks wonderful. I used a mixture of CNET's settings along with the Xbox One's calibration setup.

Keep in mind it's a sub ~$1000 LED TV. This isn't to say it looks bad or anything like that, but just to keep your expectations measured.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear. My expectations are mild, my wife wouldn't let me drop thousands on a t.v.anyways ha ha. So this sounds perfect for my preferred price range.
 
Got my projector yesterday, made a temporary setup. Image is huuuuuuge and nearly too bright. But gaming on a projector really emphasizes the graphical problems of some games. If the game artstyle isn't "clean", it really suffers. Last of us is one good examplr. Amazing on a standard tv. But on a Projector, 720p + some lower quality elements much more visible at 120-140" ... Ouch.
 
Fox1304 said:
Got my projector yesterday, made a temporary setup. Image is huuuuuuge and nearly too bright. But gaming on a projector really emphasizes the graphical problems of some games. If the game artstyle isn't "clean", it really suffers. Last of us is one good examplr. Amazing on a standard tv. But on a Projector, 720p + some lower quality elements much more visible at 120-140" ... Ouch.
Click to expand...

Congrats on the projector purchase, and welcome to the club :)
 
LiK said:
you guys talking about this? definitely looks nice.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CBQNB0C/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Click to expand...

I have the 32 inch version and i could not be happier

20131121_125444.jpg
 
Hello all, I was wondering since I'm going to purchase a PS4 or X1 at some point, how much of a hindrance is having a 720p TV for native 1080p games? I'm going to be on slick deals constantly to try and find a good 50-55" TV for around $900 or less since I need to upgrade anyways. I was curious if the image gets down sampled or not on a 720p tv. The information in this thread is pretty great, by the way.

I'm also curious about the new Vizio TVs and have seen them mentioned in this thread: http://store.vizio.com/mseries/m501da2r.html

That is the one I'm looking at, good price and perfect size for my room.
 
ok, bit the bullet on a 60" panasonic s60. should be here in a few weeks.
 
st1llx said:
So since I only have the option to buy @ Wal-Mart...this is the best I came up with:
VIZIO M471i-A2 47" 1080p 120Hz Razor LED Smart HDTV
http://www.walmart.com/ip/23991017?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3

120hz is a must since I'll be pc gaming, was thinking of the Samsung plasma but the input lag is not good.

What should I expect if I do end up buying it? Any current owners?
Click to expand...
It's not a real 120hz set. 120 is the "effective refresh rate" which mean truly it's about half. I heard that their "240 Hz" set is a true 120hz.
 
jett said:
lol.

And LCDs smear the image in motion. Even the super expensive 4K TV sets I've seen.
Click to expand...

Yup.

There are 2 different, unrelated problems with motion resolution in flat-panel displays.

(1) The liquid crystals need to twist and un-twist. On the worst quality TN panels used in laptops and PC monitors, it still takes about 4 ms. On the better quality IPS and VA panels used in TVs, it's longer in the range of 8-10 ms.

(2) The transition between colors doesn't result in a 'refresh' interval on LCD panels. This is called "sample-and-hold" motion blur by the people who study these things and it's a function of how the human eye and brain interpret incoming light hitting our eyeballs.

The reason CRT, plasma, and OLED don't experience sample-and-hold is because they use self-illuminating phosphors and by the time the next frame is drawn the phosphor has darkened for a brief amount of time before the next frame draws. This brief 'dark' period between frames appears to 'reset' human vision, for lack of a better scientific term, and the result is an image that is perceived without blurring. The reason that LCD TVs have implemented frame interpolation, black frame insertion, and backlight strobing is to defeat sample-and-hold. These things don't change the fact that the liquid crystals require a minimum of 4 ms to twist and un-twist. All LCDs exhibit some degree of image smearing for this reason.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
Yup.

There are 2 different, unrelated problems with motion resolution in flat-panel displays.

(1) The liquid crystals need to twist and un-twist. On the worst quality TN panels used in laptops and PC monitors, it still takes about 4 ms. On the better quality IPS and VA panels used in TVs, it's longer in the range of 8-10 ms.

(2) The transition between colors doesn't result in a 'refresh' interval on LCD panels. This is called "sample-and-hold" motion blur by the people who study these things and it's a function of how the human eye and brain interpret incoming light hitting our eyeballs.

The reason CRT, plasma, and OLED don't experience sample-and-hold is because they use self-illuminating phosphors and by the time the next frame is drawn the phosphor has darkened for a brief amount of time before the next frame draws. This brief 'dark' period between frames appears to 'reset' human vision, for lack of a better scientific term, and the result is an image that is perceived without blurring. The reason that LCD TVs have implemented frame interpolation, black frame insertion, and backlight strobing is to defeat sample-and-hold. These things don't change the fact that the liquid crystals require a minimum of 4 ms to twist and un-twist. All LCDs exhibit some degree of image smearing for this reason.
Click to expand...

Phosphors also don't instantly go black (therefore people see 'retention' if image is static for too long)...a lot of plasmas now also have motion interpolation features and that is part of the reason.

There is no smear or judder on my f8000 when set correctly. No different than the f8500(plasma) I had for a few days right before that.
 
offtopic said:
Phosphors also don't instantly go black (therefore people see 'retention' if image is static for too long)...a lot of plasmas now also have motion interpolation features and that is part of the reason.

There is no smear or judder on my f8000 when set correctly. No different than the f8500(plasma) I had for a few days right before that.
Click to expand...

I'll be up front and say that historically I've not been a big fan of any LCD driven TV display, and I did just get and absolutely love my 65VT60, but I must say as a casual browser of this thread I must ask: How much stock do you own in LCD/LED?
 
Fox1304 said:
Got my projector yesterday, made a temporary setup. Image is huuuuuuge and nearly too bright. But gaming on a projector really emphasizes the graphical problems of some games. If the game artstyle isn't "clean", it really suffers. Last of us is one good examplr. Amazing on a standard tv. But on a Projector, 720p + some lower quality elements much more visible at 120-140" ... Ouch.
Click to expand...

That's why I went pc gaming on my projector, 1080p 60fps is a must for 100+ inches
 
buenoblue said:
That's why I went pc gaming on my projector, 1080p 60fps is a must for 100+ inches
Click to expand...

Can't wait for the PS4 in one week personally :D
Watched a netflix movie locked in 480p last night .... It was .... Not pretty.
Strangely, on my samsung f6640, even 480p is quite watchable.
 
Just posted this over on the UK avforums site but thought I'd pop it here as well to hopefully get some expert Gaf opinion as well.

So I set-up my new Sony 50W685 yesterday. It's a W656 but in black and with passive 3D.

The first thing that hit me after switching on the PS3, putting the set into game mode and changing a few settings to what's recommended in here, was the ghosting/trailing on the XMB when scrolling quickly across or up/down. Fast movement on high contrast images has lots of ghosting on my set, even seems to leave a sort of yellow hue trail. It's also noticeable on the XMB style interface of the telly's home menu's just scrolling up and down with the white icons leaving a yellowish trail. I've tried every mode and combination of settings and nothing mitigates it to my eyes.

So I'm not sure if this is just an effect of poor but typical LCD motion or I've lucked on a duff panel? My previous set was an LG 47LE8900 which is a full-array local dimmer and I never noticed anything of the sort on that (though it had plenty of it's own issues). Can't say I've ever really noticed it on any other LCD display either. Thing is, viewing actual content looks pretty much fine to my eyes... I also popped into Curry's to look at their display set this morning, and after testing as much as I could on the menu's it didn't seem apparent on that to me. Also messed about with a 42W653, 47W802 and a 46W902 and couldn't see anything similar on them either.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar on their W6? Dodgy panel? Could it be that I was just spoiled by my previous sets motion handling? I love the W6 otherwise but don't think I could live with this sadly.
 
Just bought the Samsung 60" LED (Series 6 - nonSmart model).

Got it for a cut price (last piece) and I'm so happy with it; my PC and PS4 games look great.
 
SnakeXs said:
I'll be up front and say that historically I've not been a big fan of any LCD driven TV display, and I did just get and absolutely love my 65VT60, but I must say as a casual browser of this thread I must ask: How much stock do you own in LCD/LED?
Click to expand...

I've historically been a fan of plasma and owned one for many years. I just evaluated both in my house for the way I actually use them (not a lab) and concluded that I VERY slightly preferred the plasma if I controlled all the surrounding lighting but the reality is that there is usually a light source (or multiple high light sources) in the environment and at that point the LCD was just much better. Also, less stress about potential retention or burn-in. And, phospors do still age...people think they stop after that 100hr burn-in routine they do? hah. They just age more slowly after that. My 9yr old plasma was very dim when I replaced it.

Championing plasma because crystals have a 4ms reorientation time? Now that is way more fanboy then anything I'm saying. That is the only reason I brought up the silliness about the phosphor go-black time.
 
Just saw the Samsung OLED at best buy and it actually made the ZT60 kind of look like shit. Now I'm not not so bummed about plasma dying off if Panasonic/Sony are entering the OLED game.
 
Rainy Dog said:
The first thing that hit me after switching on the PS3, putting the set into game mode and changing a few settings to what's recommended in here, was the ghosting/trailing on the XMB when scrolling quickly across or up/down. Fast movement on high contrast images has lots of ghosting on my set, even seems to leave a sort of yellow hue trail. It's also noticeable on the XMB style interface of the telly's home menu's just scrolling up and down with the white icons leaving a yellowish trail. I've tried every mode and combination of settings and nothing mitigates it to my eyes.
Click to expand...

I don't know what would cause the discrepancy in motion between your other sets, but the XMB actually has a ghosting/fading effect as part of the animation when scrolling sideways (but not vertically from what I can tell.)

Blur Busters has a tool for testing motion where you can be sure that any trailing is not part of the animation: http://www.testufo.com/

A bit juddery in the PS3 browser though, I had to set it to 1 ufo and zoom in to get the animation smooth.
 
EasyMode said:
I don't know what would cause the discrepancy in motion between your other sets, but the XMB actually has a ghosting/fading effect as part of the animation when scrolling sideways (but not vertically from what I can tell.)

Blur Busters has a tool for testing motion where you can be sure that any trailing is not part of the animation: http://www.testufo.com/

A bit juddery in the PS3 browser though, I had to set it to 1 ufo and zoom in to get the animation smooth.
Click to expand...

Cheers, I'll try that.
 
Looking for a 32".

Are those Sony W65's basically god tier atm? I'm in Europe so I don't know the exact model, but they look sexy and input lag seems VERY low compared to the competition. Colors and general image is apparently very good too.
 
Dawg said:
Looking for a 32".

Are those Sony W65's basically god tier atm? I'm in Europe so I don't know the exact model, but they look sexy and input lag seems VERY low compared to the competition. Colors and general image is apparently very good too.
Click to expand...

Apparently the 32" doesn't have the very low input lag of the other W-Series models:

KDL32W653: 33ms
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl32w653-201310313413.htm

KDL42W653: 15ms
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl42w653-201308113237.htm
 
Ok Gaf I am about to jump on one of these TV at best buy. Which one should I go for, or is there something else in that price range I should look into. I don't care about 3d. Mainly care about picture quality, and of course decent input lag.

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=1611413&pid=1219057058728

Or

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=8350048&pid=1218872213174&pcatId=abcat0101000

Sorry about the mobile link. I'm at the store atm lol. I rather buy it at best buy since I have a large amount of gift card here. Looking for a TV 40+ inch. Or should I wait for actual bf? What ya think Gaf?
 
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