You're right. I figured it after I starting putting them in. I'll go back and edit that post! Thanks.Hold up, those Dnice settings are for the ST60 only. He never made settings for the s60
You're right. I figured it after I starting putting them in. I'll go back and edit that post! Thanks.Hold up, those Dnice settings are for the ST60 only. He never made settings for the s60
Posts like this make me glad I opted for the W900A vs the VT60... VT60 seems like a fantastic set but it just didn't feel like it'd be the set for me based on what I wanted. Lots of good discussion on IR this page and the last though, that's for sure.
.Can anyone recommend a good hdmi switch? Need one for my PS4, Xbox One, and Wii-U
The Kinivo 5-port switch is amazing and comes with a remote. But of course it also auto-switches.
The OLED on the Vita looks better than the ST60 plasma. I compared videos side by side.
I dont understand why its $40 and some units seem to have the same issues as the cheapo hdmi switches (port dies after one year, finicky ports, flickers with PS4/PS3, etc.)
Imo, $40 for a switch is ridiculous.
How are you liking the W9? Any issues with screen uniformity or motion resolution? I'm back to leaning in this direction, but I need one more price drop.
Source: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43256Since the Pioneer [V402] is an early plasma generation, image retention is quite obvious. If you play a 2D shoot'em up, the score display will show a slight afterglow for several minutes after you've quit the game. This has nothing to do with burn-in though and with a display properly "broken in" burn-in is nothing you have to worry about. I had an in-game pause screen showing for about 3 hours recently and the image retention from it was completely gone about 2 minutes into my next game session.
Erm. Sure.The OLED on the Vita looks better than the ST60 plasma. I compared videos side by side.
Just pre-emptively break it in properly.I had pretty much settled on an ST60, but now I'm getting paranoid from reading the last few pages. Between TiVo, video games, and sports there will be a lot of static images on any set I use.
You mean before 2014? Very dim.what are the odds of a W8 or W9 going onsale in the next month or so?
And jesus do I wanna sleep with that 40 inch 4:3 SD plasma piece of porn; regardless of the fact it is an old plasma, last of it's kind actually.
I just imported one of these to the U.S. I live in New York. It seems like the best gaming TV out right now so I just had to have it. It arrives tomorrow some I'm gonna break it in for a day or two then do some gaming on it.
Hehe, you should.I don't know about 4:3 plasmas, but I love my 5010
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Don't worry, if you ran slides for a week chances are it's broken in properly already... for the most part at least, and breaking it in that way is really not a requirement these days.I bought the S60 at Sears for $600. I ran the slides for a week straight and I'm still nervous to watch anything that doesn't fill the whole screen. I'm sure I'll get over it, but I'm such a scared little plasma owner. I haven't even really enjoyed it yet. I'm assuming any kind of TV show with bars on the side (Star Trek: TNG on BBC America does this) isn't a big deal because there are frequent commercial breaks, right?
I also want to play Mario 3D World on it, but I'm so, so afraid.
W900A owners: any recommended first steps or agreed upon settings to try? Got the TV setup (was delivered late) and then had to head into work after about ten minutes of using it, so I haven't had proper time with it yet.
Try turning off the Light Sensor so the TV won't automatically adjust the backlight. This should also increase the maximum brightness:
Home button > Settings > Preferences > Eco > Light Sensor: Off
To turn off overscan:
Home button > Settings > Picture & Display > Screen
Wide Mode: Full
Auto Wide: Off
Auto Display Area: Off
Display Area: Full Pixel
I posted all my settings here if you want a starting point. That's kinda cool about the PS4, I had no idea about that.
Regional nuances. They also have the S60 and we (europeans) don't.
And GT's are not really standard in Europe: Portugal, Spain and UK lack them, probably more countries (Italy, Germany and France have them).
Also, GT's and ST's had regional nuances before, the US ST50 was the european GT50 (no shit).Jesus, no.
The ST60 has 54 ms lag via the high speed camera mode, 75 ms via the Leo Bodnar method.
They give off different results because:
Source: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag
It’s Harsher On Plasma TVs
When we first got our hands on the Leo Bodnar device, we were surprised when we obtained (nearly) the same 48ms figure from a Panasonic ST50 PDP (plasma display panel) and a new Panasonic ET60 LED LCD (both running in their fastest Game mode). From our experience of playing a decent amount of first-person shooter games online, the Panasonic ST50 is a total joy to play on compared to the LCD. The former feels considerably smoother than the latter, but both are returning basically the same figure.
(...) An LCD-based display updates the screen from top to bottom, one line at a time, which means that a player’s brain cannot make sense of a part of the image until it has been completely rendered. The LCD’s top-to-bottom addressing can be seen with the Leo Bodnar lag tester: measuring the top patch tends to give a lower number than measuring the centre patch from our tests. However, on a PDP, the result is always the same on both patches.
Because plasma displays work by flashing the screen several times just to draw one video frame, on a PDP, an intermediate image doesn’t look half-drawn in the same way that it would on an LCD. Instead, it would have very low gradation (and brightness). In theory, this means that the player has a better chance of seeing the entire gameplay screen, albeit not at full quality, since the subfield drive throws out different steps of the dynamic range quickly just to draw one fully-gradated frame.
This is the key difference. On the LCD, obviously our eyes can’t make sense of parts of the frame which haven’t been drawn yet (parts of the frame are either fully rendered or not), but on the plasma, we get extra temporal precision in the feedback loop, since we can see rough versions of the frames before they’re even fully drawn. And, in a fast-paced game, our brain doesn’t care if it’s seeing incomplete images – it should still be able to make out rough outlines and shapes.
The incomplete frames don’t necessarily even have to be coherent to our eyes. Even if we can detect the screen responding to our finger movements at all, it should be enough to make the game feel much more responsive.
In isolation, and for slow-paced games, this is all basically moot. But in a first-person shooter (even one which only runs at 30 frames per second) or racing game, etc, where the entire screen is moving and split-second decisions count, we think the PDP’s subfield drive helps tremendously in making the gameplay feel smooth. After all, in reality, playing fast-paced games is a continuous feedback loop between the player and the screen.
How does this explain why plasma televisions that feel much more responsive are shortchanged by the Leo Bodnar input lag tester which returns a higher figure? Well, we surmised that the flashing white bars need to hit a specific brightness threshold before they can be picked up by the device’s photosensor for lag time calculation: if you decrease or increase the on-screen luminance using the TV’s [Contrast] or [Backlight] control, the Leo Bodnar’s lag number should rise or drop correspondingly.
A plasma’s subframe, while not bright enough to trigger the photosensor, can readily be perceived by us in the sensorial feedback loop, thus accounting for the discrepancy between the displayed input lag figure and the actual responsiveness of a PDP.
Ironically, the older stopwatch/camera method – though inconsistent – is capable of capturing subframes before they’re fully drawn (since it’s not limited by any luminance threshold, and the shutter speed is much higher than the panel refresh rate), and so more accurately reflects how responsive a PDP is. This is the reason why we continue to run both tests on most HDTVs we review despite the photo method being such a labour-intensive process.
Fast Camera Method is where it's at for Plasmas; real ST60 input lag really is 54 ms (and it's not small by any means) but 75 ms is an unrealistic figure; your GT60 is not 23 ms in Leo Bodnar either, it's 43.4 ms, except that's not really indicative of how responsive it really is.You guys and the "amount of light" figures..
Hey guys, I just wanted to confirm this is bullshit. The Bodnar does seem to be accurate for PDP's, including the latest driving methods. I've had the opportunity to test this theory on a NA VT60 and found around 43-46ms (think the Bodnar shows 46-47ms). I've been using SMTT and the same laptop and driver to measure my displays for several years now. I know the GT30 shows 20ms lag against this laptop and we know the Bodnar reads 32-33ms against it (so we can safely assume 13ms lag on the laptop panel). VT60 in game mode across various picture modes and with all processing off shows 30-33ms in SMTT + 13ms laptop = ~43-46ms. Looks like there are possibly differences in the EU and NA models, or HDTVTest are not using the same HW/SW and/or consistent procedures in their timer testing, cause the VT60 is by no stretch of the imagination or definition a 23ms display.
If buzzing is audible from 2 meters away (S60 50") even not on white screens, is that a defect?
Got my PS4 today. These 1080p native games sure look nice on the ZT. I found myself disabling some HUD elements playing Assassin's Creed IV to ease my IR paranoia, though none of the disabled elements have hindered the ability to play the game. I also quite prefer to play it without the needlessly cluttered HUD. The minimap takes a needless amount of screen space, especially considering you can just tap the touch plate to open a full map. Player placed markers are also shown in the game world as objective markers, so why bother with the minimap? Shameful, too, is the lack of 'screen size' setting in the options. The HUD seems even more intrusive with elements placed close to center to avoid any of it being off-screen for those who don't bother check their overscan settings.
I could look past these if you could just disable control the HUD transparency, but I suppose there's only so much you can ask of games in terms of interface options. Being able toggle almost any of the elements on or off, as in past AC games is more than most do anyway.
I've yet to try out Killzone, but I think I'll play through this one first. I do like the rather natural look the game. The dynamic range also seems well preserved.
Killzone with no HUD is fantastic, but the mission markers will not appear and that can be frustrating.
Battlefield lets you set the HUD transparency, which is also a good thing and should be done more often by other games.
Weird considering all the reviews months ago, did you take all the steps to make it lag less?Hey guys, I just wanted to confirm this is bullshit. The Bodnar does seem to be accurate for PDP's, including the latest driving methods. I've had the opportunity to test this theory on a NA VT60 and found around 43-46ms (think the Bodnar shows 46-47ms). I've been using SMTT and the same laptop and driver to measure my displays for several years now. I know the GT30 shows 20ms lag against this laptop and we know the Bodnar reads 32-33ms against it (so we can safely assume 13ms lag on the laptop panel). VT60 in game mode across various picture modes and with all processing off shows 30-33ms in SMTT + 13ms laptop = ~43-46ms. Looks like there are possibly differences in the EU and NA models, or HDTVTest are not using the same HW/SW and/or consistent procedures in their timer testing, cause the VT60 is by no stretch of the imagination or definition a 23ms display.
Panasonic U50:
Panasonic VT60:
Anyone still playing their PS2 on their HDTVs? Are component cables the only way to go?
Depends.Anyone still playing their PS2 on their HDTVs? Are component cables the only way to go?
True, but that's not the only 240p PS2 game, retro collections and the like, use it the most... although sure, Ico should be the one most people butt heads on. (and I don't have a PS3... yet!)if you want to play Ico/SoTC you should be playing the remaster on PS3 anyway.
Weird considering all the reviews months ago, did you take all the steps to make it lag less?
I'm talking about:
Pixel Direct - OFF
Game Mode - ON
Pixel Orbiter - AUTO
Overscan - OFF
Video NR -OFF
That should be all.
That's plausible, there have been nuances in the past like the US ST50 being regarded as the equivalent of the European GT50 (evidenced by the focused field drive specs).I did unfortunately, double and triple checked everything every time I measured different picture modes, and I didn't stop there. I even tested against not so obvious potentials like ARC Vs. non-ARC inputs, turning off Viera link (HDMI CEC), and killing its internet connection. There could very well be differences in the NA and EU models.
That's plausible, there have been nuances in the past like the US ST50 being regarded as the equivalent of the European GT50 (evidenced by the focused field drive specs).
That said, Panasonic only has 3 chip solutions going on this year AFAIK, LD8 on X60's, the Mediatek chips on S60 and ST60, and their Hexa thing going on on the GT, VT and ZT segments.
There shouldn't be many differences across models providing the chips and features align due to that; ghosting time is 6 ms, so measured lag in fast camera mode amounting to more than that is due to post processing... Should be transversal.
But I dunno,
Really? I've got a fresh American ST50 and haven't seen it referred to like that, do you have links?That's plausible, there have been nuances in the past like the US ST50 being regarded as the equivalent of the European GT50 (evidenced by the focused field drive specs).
So while overall I'm very impressed with the W900A after a night of using it, I can very clearly see lighter spots when the screen should be all black. I'm not sure if that's clouding, or light bleeding, or what the term might be, but I do know it's pretty disappointing on a $2,000 set. Will have to research how common that is or if I should start investigating returning or replacing the set. Might snap some pictures and upload them later too.
It's word of mouth, but:Really? I've got a fresh American ST50 and haven't seen it referred to like that, do you have links?
Source: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st50b-p42st50-201203191731.htm?page=PerformanceThe company claims that the Focused Field Drive present on the European ST50 series in its lesser “2000hz” incarnation rather than the “2500hz” available on the GT50 and VT50 displays – and, interestingly, on the North American ST50 series is a motion detection and panel driving algorithm which structures the stages of light output from the plasma panel in a way which is both better suited to the specific video being displayed on screen, and better suited to the way in which the human visual system (the eyes and brain) see motion
I don't know wether they are interchangeable or not; I'd wager probably not. But I find it difficult to conclude them to be so different down to the panels and driving software.Are the FW's interchangeable across territories? That's where my finger would first point, and I'm assuming they're not as EU has USB DVR capability, 50Hz compatibility, etc... Even the Bodnars are returning different values as Cnet measured 47.9 (US) and HDTVTest measured 41ms (EU). Still, I don't believe 23ms is accurate at all, even for EU. Certainly not for NA.
So while overall I'm very impressed with the W900A after a night of using it, I can very clearly see lighter spots when the screen should be all black. I'm not sure if that's clouding, or light bleeding, or what the term might be, but I do know it's pretty disappointing on a $2,000 set. Will have to research how common that is or if I should start investigating returning or replacing the set. Might snap some pictures and upload them later too.
try loosening the screws behind the TV closest to it and see if it alleviates the problem. That's the only possible fix I read online.Looks great except for the blob in the top middle of the set.
Now I have the decision to make about keeping or complaining.
So while overall I'm very impressed with the W900A after a night of using it, I can very clearly see lighter spots when the screen should be all black. I'm not sure if that's clouding, or light bleeding, or what the term might be, but I do know it's pretty disappointing on a $2,000 set. Will have to research how common that is or if I should start investigating returning or replacing the set. Might snap some pictures and upload them later too.
Looks great except for the blob in the top middle of the set.
Now I have the decision to make about keeping or complaining.