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[lostinblue]

It is 60Hz, motion flow 200Hz means nothing on this set - just marketing bollocks

Hz are bollocks on everything out there.

Huge ass refresh rates on plasmas being there for the sake of image stabilization and on LCD's being there due to the fact that... well, they're objectively not so good with motion so "motion compensation" ensues that a transition can start before the final frame appears stabilizing the image and making it "smoother".

Since for that they need to obtain the following frame that means they'll be delaying the end result at least 16 ms to create a composite result, the end result is rarely coming under 33 ms input delay.

It's only normal a TV that has 6 ms via fast camera method and 15 ms on Leo Bodnar method is not pulling many shenanigans at least on the measured game mode/low input lag mode, but it's most likely still not a strictly 60 Hz set providing it has Motion Flow features on spec and on the menus.

Since we're talking about this though, most TV's turn motion-compensated frame interpolation off for game mode so very specifically they'll be the "same shit" regardles of how many hertz they advertise, it's that or increased lag.

I can deal with the lack of HDMIs with a receiver, and Sony Europe do a W685 with 3D

I know, but it's really a normal W650 with 3D bolted on.

It's not horrible, but it's certainly not great. I know people that purchased it recently and expected more out of that feature.

I guess someone could do us the favor of connecting the 42W650 to a PC and let us know what available refresh rates it has.

It's 60 Hz on the input source, but we all know that.

That criteria would make most things on the market 60 Hz regardless of advertised Hz.

 

[mrklaw]

You mean the motion resolution, or the 3D? I'm incredibly impressed by the 3D considering it is a budget set. and the blacks are at least as good as my HX803 was, which for the time had excellent blacks. I think it is a standout set at its price point

 

[lostinblue]

You mean the motion resolution, or the 3D? I'm incredibly impressed by the 3D considering it is a budget set. and the blacks are at least as good as my HX803 was, which for the time had excellent blacks. I think it is a standout set at its price point

I honestly don't know what I mean because I haven't seen 3D on them, I just had people who bought them telling me it was capable enough but also disappointing in that area.

Now, I don't know what they did expect or saw, but seeing more than one person gave me that... I'll go with it.

I think 3D on the W680 is a bonus, and if you think about it like that there's no disappointment to be pressed upon, that said, they aren't that cheap and for that pricepoint there are some active 3D sets around.

Anything can pull 3D, I've seen university projects years ago where they made 60 Hz and rounded probably half life CRT's pull 3D with glasses... And it worked... But if you ask me wether it was comfortable or not I'll tell you it really wasn't.

I think W650's are pretty great for the price, and seeing europe has them on all measurement flavours I'm really not recommending anything else this year for someone that games and wants an LCD.

I'm actively not recommending the W800, though as I feel they're trying to ride the amazing W600/W650 and W900 wave... yet being the odd (not so good) one out.

 

[jett]

Hz are bollocks on everything out there.

Huge ass refresh rates on plasmas being there for the sake of image stabilization and on LCD's being there due to the fact that... well, they're objectively not so good with motion so "motion compensation" ensues that a transition can start before the final frame appears stabilizing the image and making it "smoother".

Since for that they need to obtain the following frame that means they'll be delaying the end result at least 16 ms to create a composite result, the end result is rarely coming under 33 ms input delay.

It's only normal a TV that has 6 ms via fast camera method and 15 ms on Leo Bodnar method is not pulling many shenanigans at least on the measured game mode/low input lag mode, but it's most likely still not a strictly 60 Hz set providing it has Motion Flow features on spec and on the menus.

Since we're talking about this though, most TV's turn motion-compensated frame interpolation off for game mode so very specifically they'll be the "same shit" regardles of how many hertz they advertise, it's that or increased lag.I know, but it's really a normal W650 with 3D bolted on.

It's not horrible, but it's certainly not great. I know people that purchased it recently and expected more out of that feature.It's 60 Hz on the input source, but we all know that.

That criteria would make most things on the market 60 Hz regardless of advertised Hz.

Wouldn't a real 120hz display let you choose that refresh rate, like a monitor would?

 

[Bravoexo]

Isn't 3D 120hz, 60hz per eye. You just have to realize if the TV is passive (half resolution) or active (full resolution).

 

[mkenyon]

Isn't 3D 120hz, 60hz per eye. You just have to realize if the TV is passive (half resolution) or active (full resolution).

Yeah, but that's only for PC monitors. HDMI can not put out a 1080/120Hz signal, with a very tiny few exceptions.

TVs do not do 3D @ 60Hz per eye.

Wouldn't a real 120hz display let you choose that refresh rate, like a monitor would?

There's only one TV I know of that can do 1080p@120Hz, which is the Seiki 4K.

 

[Josman]

So... How many years until OLED becomes accesible ?

 

[Russell]

So... How many years until OLED becomes accesible ?

Excellent question. Maybe an affordable, consumer-level OLED display will be unveiled at CES next month.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[mkenyon]

Gimmie an OLED that strobes between 120Hz real refresh rate plz.

Interesting article on OLEDs and motion blur.

The answer lies in persistence (sample-and-hold). OLED is great in many ways, however, many of them are hampered by the sample-and-hold effect. Even instant pixel response (0 ms) can have lots of motion blur due to sample-and-hold. Some OLEDs use strobing for lower persistence, to eliminate motion blur, but not all of them do.

Your eyes are always moving when you track moving objects on a screen. Sample-and-hold means frames are statically displayed until the next refresh. Your eyes are in a different position at the beginning of a refresh than at the end of a refresh; this causes the frame to be blurred across your retinas:

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Gimmie an OLED that strobes between 120Hz real refresh rate plz.

Interesting article on OLEDs and motion blur.

This problem has been solved. There is no perceivable motion blur on the Playstation Vita's OLED screen. My Galaxy Note II has no motion resolution issues either on it's OLED.

The problem of the blue phosphor degrading more quickly has not been solved however. And overall the OLED phosphors still degrade very fast compared to the average lifetime expected of a TV.

Excellent question. Maybe an affordable, consumer-level OLED display will be unveiled at CES next month.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Affordable? Unlikely.

But available to the consumer is very likely, just in small quantities, at a high price, with significant questions as to the longevity of the panel and whether it will undergo significant color shifting over it's short life as the blue phosphor degrades at twice the rate of the red and green phosphors.

 

[mkenyon]

This problem has been solved. There is no perceivable motion blur on the Playstation Vita's OLED screen. My Galaxy Note II has no motion resolution issues either on it's OLED.

The Vita has tons of motion blur. I don't think you read the article

I noticed it big time in Super Stardust Delta.

 

[Machspeed007]

You mean the motion resolution, or the 3D? I'm incredibly impressed by the 3D considering it is a budget set. and the blacks are at least as good as my HX803 was, which for the time had excellent blacks. I think it is a standout set at its price point

I have the 50W685 and the 3D is very good in my opinion. I've bought it because it has a VA-Panel with passive 3D which is a rare occurence. No crosstalk, no visible ghosting, light 3D glasses, no strain on the eyes..

The W800s have passive 3D as well but they have the IPS panels from LG, with lower contrast and uniformity problems. I've measured the contrast on my W685 with X-Rite Colormunki and I've got ~3000:1 ANSI-contrast (8000:1 with back-light dimming) which is pretty good for a lcd. No complaints so far.

Oh, and the W685 has Simulview, meaning you can do this.

 

[Forearm Star]

Hey I'm looking for a new tv to replace my current samsung (40in)

I'm in the market for a 50-55in and $800 was my original limit but looking like I may have to stretch to $900 because of it being so last minute for the holidays. (long store short sears f***ked me royally on a tv that was "supposed" to be on hold for me, but in all actuality will be ordered and sent to me after the christmas. Which isn't going to work.

I've narrowed it down to a few sets, none of which seem to be in stock any where close by.

So if anyone is willing to help i'd appreciate it.

50-55in
$900 max price range
LED considering the switch to plasma
Mainly used for gaming and viewing sports

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The Vita has tons of motion blur. I don't think you read the article

I noticed it big time in Super Stardust Delta.

I'm aware of Sample-and-Hold and how it applies to LCD and OLED. I didn't need any article for that.

I've been playing Muramasa Rebirth and if there's blur then either I'm completely insensitive to it (possible) or I'm not noticing it. Too bad my Vita doesn't have TV-out so I could compare it on the OLED vs. my VT60.

 

[mkenyon]

Would probably be more helpful to compare it between a strobing backlight panel or plasma.

Try scrolling fast on a webpage.

On my Moto X right now and it's pretty noticeable too.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Okay, now I see it. I tried it on my Vita and on my Note II.

It's easy to see with black text on white, I guess.

I tried it on my VT60 too as I have a gaming and media PC connected to it and I'm one of those people who can see the phosphor trailing as a blue/orange fringe on moving black text on white. So I'm not sure it's really any better, at least for me. Maybe if I couldn't see the phosphor trailing there would be a noticeable difference in motion resolution between the plasma and the OLEDs.

 

[TheVampire]

So im thinking of buying a SONY 55" HDTV to use for console gaming and PC gaming.
It's a KDL55W900A and on displaylag.com it says it gets an excellent rating.

http://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-lcd-led-plasma/sony/55-inch-full-hd-3d-smart-led-lcd-tv-sku-420441/

139cm / 55 Inch LED LCD Screen
1920 x 1080 Resolution
3D Built-In
USB Movie Playback
USB Picture View
USB Music Playback
SD Tuner
200Hz Screen Refresh Rate
Built-In Smart TV Processor & Software
Built In Wi-Fi
4 HDMI Inputs


Does anyone have any advice on this model?

 

[Bravoexo]

I have the KDL-55W904A version for two weeks now, rocking a Xbox One, Xbox 360S and a PS3. Great image quality and for gaming, pretty awesome game mode. Hopefully you got an ARC HDMI port on your receiver to take advantage of passthrough sound. and if you're using a fairly new mobile phone or tablet, you can screencast or chromecast on it.

 

[mrklaw]

I have the 50W685 and the 3D is very good in my opinion. I've bought it because it has a VA-Panel with passive 3D which is a rare occurence. No crosstalk, no visible ghosting, light 3D glasses, no strain on the eyes..

The W800s have passive 3D as well but they have the IPS panels from LG, with lower contrast and uniformity problems. I've measured the contrast on my W685 with X-Rite Colormunki and I've got ~3000:1 ANSI-contrast (8000:1 with back-light dimming) which is pretty good for a lcd. No complaints so far.

Oh, and the W685 has Simulview, meaning you can do this.

exactly - although as lostinblue said, for me it is a nice bonus - I bought the TV primarily for the VA panel, increased size and low input lag. Passive 3D and black bezel were nice bonuses (I prefer the black bezel to the silver on the 650)

One bonus of this set (and I assume the W8/W9 too) is that you can send youtube and netflix directly from your tablet to the TV. Now I don't really care about netflix on PS4

btw, is there a list of simulview compatible games on PS3? I'd like to try some out.

So im thinking of buying a SONY 55" HDTV to use for console gaming and PC gaming.
It's a KDL55W900A and on displaylag.com it says it gets an excellent rating.

http://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-lcd-led-plasma/sony/55-inch-full-hd-3d-smart-led-lcd-tv-sku-420441/

139cm / 55 Inch LED LCD Screen
1920 x 1080 Resolution
3D Built-In
USB Movie Playback
USB Picture View
USB Music Playback
SD Tuner
200Hz Screen Refresh Rate
Built-In Smart TV Processor & Software
Built In Wi-Fi
4 HDMI Inputs


Does anyone have any advice on this model?

jump on it. Probably pick of the LCDs at the moment.

 

[Lima]

Worst part of a new TV is learning the new remote. Having a new one in the dark can be a chore.

Why don't you have a Logitech Harmony remote man?

 

[nikos]

So im thinking of buying a SONY 55" HDTV to use for console gaming and PC gaming.
It's a KDL55W900A and on displaylag.com it says it gets an excellent rating.

http://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-lcd-led-plasma/sony/55-inch-full-hd-3d-smart-led-lcd-tv-sku-420441/

139cm / 55 Inch LED LCD Screen
1920 x 1080 Resolution
3D Built-In
USB Movie Playback
USB Picture View
USB Music Playback
SD Tuner
200Hz Screen Refresh Rate
Built-In Smart TV Processor & Software
Built In Wi-Fi
4 HDMI Inputs


Does anyone have any advice on this model?

It's a great set, but overpriced on that site. You can find it cheaper.

 

[Bishop89]

So im thinking of buying a SONY 55" HDTV to use for console gaming and PC gaming.
It's a KDL55W900A and on displaylag.com it says it gets an excellent rating.

http://www.jbhifi.com.au/tv-lcd-led-plasma/sony/55-inch-full-hd-3d-smart-led-lcd-tv-sku-420441/

139cm / 55 Inch LED LCD Screen
1920 x 1080 Resolution
3D Built-In
USB Movie Playback
USB Picture View
USB Music Playback
SD Tuner
200Hz Screen Refresh Rate
Built-In Smart TV Processor & Software
Built In Wi-Fi
4 HDMI Inputs


Does anyone have any advice on this model?

Ive been waiting for jb to have a special for this very tv...its been weeks since their last specials. I cant believe this close to xmas the sales for them havnt started, freaken ridiculous. Harvey norman have that tv for $ 10 cheaper, guess whoever bites first ey?

 

[Curly]

This problem has been solved. There is no perceivable motion blur on the Playstation Vita's OLED screen. My Galaxy Note II has no motion resolution issues either on it's OLED.

Wrong. So very, very wrong. I own a Vita and the blur is persistent. In addition, I currently avoid OLED-screened phones for this same reason. IPS appears much cleaner to my eyes. (horrible blacks, but I feel that the tradeoff is worth it) Then again, I've been a plasma guy since 2008 so perhaps my eyes have acquired an atypical aversion to sample-hold.

An aside, but a recent viewing of a large screen (Samsung) OLED was an instant affirmation of my decision to buy a new plasma this year. I had a Pioneer Elite monitor (PRO-101FD) and wanted to bump up in size. I had a friend purchase the ZT60 earlier in the year and, after putting it through its picture adjustment paces, determined that it wasn't quite as good as the Kuro from a picture quality standpoint -- but the increase to 65" in a home setting is indeed wowing. The PQ disparity being what it is I decided to save some cash and opt for a 65" S60 and I couldn't be happier. If one is OK with the glare from the AR filterless screen under bright conditions it's an incredible value. (I paid just over a 1/3 of what my friend did for his ZT60) My friend also confirmed: tweaked Cinema on the S60 is shockingly close to his (now calibrated) ZT60. The filter on the ZT60 is unmatched, however.

Gaming has been flawless on the S60. The Kuro monitors were near-lagless in Game mode and I really haven't noticed a meaningful difference in jumping to the Panasonic. In addition, I haven't had any issues with image retention (something that was a HUGE problem with the previous two Panasonics that I owned) and that jump to 65"... there's just nothing like a big screen.

Buy a plasma before they're gone!

 

[LiK]

I have to admit that after about a week, I'm really loving my BF Vizio 60" TV purchase. Been playing a couple of games on the PS4 and games look crisp and sharp. Movies on Blu also look really great. I'm gonna try the massage technique a lil more and see if I can make the flashlighting in lower right go away more. It still nags me but doesn't quite annoy me as much.

Switching from a 50" to a 60" is really quite amazing. The larger screen really immersed me much more. If you can go bigger, do it. Sailing around in ACIV is dazzling. Such a big difference. The cheap price makes this set sweeter. I won't fret if I feel like suddenly switching back to a plasma or upgrade to a 4k set in the future. ^^

 

[AlimNassor]

Samsung UN32F6300 32-Inch 1080p 120Hz Slim Smart LED HDTV vs the Sony KDL-32W650A 32-Inch 60Hz 1080p Internet LED HDTV. What do you guys think would be better? They're both similar in price, but, again the F6300 is 120hz, while the W650A is 60hz, I've heard they're the best I can buy.

W600A, W650A and W900A are VA Panels.



Pretty much all TV's out there are only up to 60 Hz internally (signal refresh rate) yet they refresh and create (therefore output) more frames than that; hence, a 3000 Hz plasma is still a 60 Hz set to some degree, and a Sony W900A at "240 Hz" too.

No, it's 60hz.

 

[mkenyon]

While it is true that the input refresh of the Sony W900 is 60hz, it does have a strobing effect, which leads to CRT quality motion resolution.

http://www.blurbusters.com/sony-motionflow-impulse-mode-reduces-motion-blur-without-interpolation/

*edit*

Per your question, go for the Sony for the reason linked above.

 

[mrJared]

Anybody have any good settings for ps3/4 gaming and blu-raying on a Panny S60

 

[AlimNassor]

While it is true that the input refresh of the Sony W900 is 60hz, it does have a strobing effect, which leads to CRT quality motion resolution.

http://www.blurbusters.com/sony-motionflow-impulse-mode-reduces-motion-blur-without-interpolation/

*edit*

Per your question, go for the Sony for the reason linked above.

So does that mean my W650A has the motion flow?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Anybody have any good settings for ps3/4 gaming and blu-raying on a Panny S60

Most people start with the CNET settings. Some people switch to D-Nice after it's broken in.

 

[mkenyon]

So does that mean my W650A has the motion flow?

That's my understanding.

 

[imadinosaur]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but bare with me... this is extremely relevant.

When it comes to refresh rates, most rates over 60 Hz have always bothered me. I go into Best Buy ever so often, and stroll through the TV isles, comparing models. I find the 120 Hz models in particular (not all of them, but most of the off-brands as well as a handful of the elite brands) to be AWFUL looking. They jutter around and move really wildly. Sometimes they just feel so overly fluid that the video is sped up.

I found some 600 Hz plasmas that were nice and natural, and just felt like a slightly better version of a 60 Hz TV. The TV I currently use is 60 Hz, and I love it.

Does anyone have any similar problems with finding a decent TV with a higher refresh rate? I swear that most of them look jarring and ugly. Something about the interpolation algorithm must be off. I've heard Sony's TV's are better for stuff like this....

 

[KaiPow]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but bare with me... this is extremely relevant.

When it comes to refresh rates, most rates over 60 Hz have always bothered me. I go into Best Buy ever so often, and stroll through the TV isles, comparing models. I find the 120 Hz models in particular (not all of them, but most of the off-brands as well as a handful of the elite brands) to be AWFUL looking. They jutter around and move really wildly. Sometimes they just feel so overly fluid that the video is sped up.

I can second this. During my couple year stint selling televisions for Sears, I found that a couple of Sharp 120's had this terrible issue of seemingly running film at a much higher frame rate than the 24p they were intended for. Stuff like Men in Black had a pretty awkward looking speed to them, like you were watching a home movie or something.

 

[LiK]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but bare with me... this is extremely relevant.

When it comes to refresh rates, most rates over 60 Hz have always bothered me. I go into Best Buy ever so often, and stroll through the TV isles, comparing models. I find the 120 Hz models in particular (not all of them, but most of the off-brands as well as a handful of the elite brands) to be AWFUL looking. They jutter around and move really wildly. Sometimes they just feel so overly fluid that the video is sped up.

I found some 600 Hz plasmas that were nice and natural, and just felt like a slightly better version of a 60 Hz TV. The TV I currently use is 60 Hz, and I love it.

Does anyone have any similar problems with finding a decent TV with a higher refresh rate? I swear that most of them look jarring and ugly. Something about the interpolation algorithm must be off. I've heard Sony's TV's are better for stuff like this....

120hz is fine if you turn off all the post processing stuff. And when I mean all I mean ALL of it. Looks fine without it.

 

[mkenyon]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but bare with me... this is extremely relevant.

When it comes to refresh rates, most rates over 60 Hz have always bothered me. I go into Best Buy ever so often, and stroll through the TV isles, comparing models. I find the 120 Hz models in particular (not all of them, but most of the off-brands as well as a handful of the elite brands) to be AWFUL looking. They jutter around and move really wildly. Sometimes they just feel so overly fluid that the video is sped up.

I found some 600 Hz plasmas that were nice and natural, and just felt like a slightly better version of a 60 Hz TV. The TV I currently use is 60 Hz, and I love it.

Does anyone have any similar problems with finding a decent TV with a higher refresh rate? I swear that most of them look jarring and ugly. Something about the interpolation algorithm must be off. I've heard Sony's TV's are better for stuff like this....

It doesn't refresh the actual image at 8.3ms, the input is still literally 60Hz. What it does is use interpolation to insert additional frames to make it look like it's refreshing at 8.3ms instead of 16.7. This makes things look weird as hell.

You should try out a real 120Hz panel sometime on a PC to see what it's all about.

120hz is fine if you turn off all the post processing stuff. And when I mean all I mean ALL of it. Looks fine without it.

Yeah, then it just becomes a standard 60Hz panel.

There are some panels where you don't want to turn that stuff off, like the Sony Motionflow Impulse. That doesn't interpolate, it strobes a light to just give perfect motion resolution.

 

[ElNino]

There are some panels where you don't want to turn that stuff off, like the Sony Motionflow Impulse. That doesn't interpolate, it strobes a light to just give perfect motion resolution.

Hmm... the W900A does seem like a good set, but my concern is off-axis viewing since none of my seating are directly in front of my TV. This is why I went plasma six years ago, and this is still the reason why I'm leaning towards plasma again; especially considering that I can get an S60 for less than half of what the W900A costs (although I would gladly pay the extra cost if I felt it would give me a better set).

 

[LiK]

Never owned a Sony set so I'm not sure of the post processing for it. Only owned Panasonic, Samsung and Vizio (most recently). So I trust you Sony guys for your advice.

 

[AndyMoogle]

Hmm... the W900A does seem like a good set, but my concern is off-axis viewing since none of my seating are directly in front of my TV. This is why I went plasma six years ago, and this is still the reason why I'm leaning towards plasma again; especially considering that I can get an S60 for less than half of what the W900A costs (although I would gladly pay the extra cost if I felt it would give me a better set).

You should go with the S60, imo. The W900 has poor viewing angles, and it's not really a better set than a S60 either for that matter. It's a great LCD, but I'd still take a good plasma over a great LCD. Especially considering the price differences.

 

[mkenyon]

Hmm... the W900A does seem like a good set, but my concern is off-axis viewing since none of my seating are directly in front of my TV. This is why I went plasma six years ago, and this is still the reason why I'm leaning towards plasma again; especially considering that I can get an S60 for less than half of what the W900A costs (although I would gladly pay the extra cost if I felt it would give me a better set).

I'd really look at the W900 as a very gaming-oriented panel. Definitely S60 for movies and colors.

 

[ElNino]

I'd really look at the W900 as a very gaming-oriented panel. Definitely S60 for movies and colors.

While I'm sure the W900 is great for games, isn't it's input lag with Motionflow Impulse enabled around 30ms in Game mode? That would be almost the same as the S60 which is supposedly around 34ms.

 

[lostinblue]

Yeah, but that's only for PC monitors. HDMI can not put out a 1080/120Hz signal, with a very tiny few exceptions.

TVs do not do 3D @ 60Hz per eye.

There's only one TV I know of that can do 1080p@120Hz, which is the Seiki 4K.

Thanks for having my back.

While I'm sure the W900 is great for games, isn't it's input lag with Motionflow Impulse enabled around 30ms in Game mode? That would be almost the same as the S60 which is supposedly around 34ms.

You're juggling fast camera method with leo bodnar.

Paraphrasing:

S60 is 34 ms in Leo Bodnar, 16 ms on fast camera method.
W650 is 15 ms in Leo Bodnar, 6 ms on fast camera method.

It's no big deal, nothing you'll notice, but they're not the same thing, no. Even if S60 is a pretty good gaming set.

 

[mkenyon]

While I'm sure the W900 is great for games, isn't it's input lag with Motionflow Impulse enabled around 30ms in Game mode? That would be almost the same as the S60 which is supposedly around 34ms.

<1 frame of input lag is not noticeable in console games.

If you were talking about something like a twitch shooter with M&KB that is running at 120+ FPS, different story. But when frames are only being delivered every 33.3ms or less, it's not going to be a concern at all.

On top of that, you get CRT quality motion resolution when it's enabled. Well worth it.

 

[ElNino]

You're juggling fast camera method with leo bodnar.

Paraphrasing:

S60 is 34 ms in Leo Bodnar, 16 ms on fast camera method.
W650 is 15 ms in Leo Bodnar, 6 ms on fast camera method.

It's no big deal, nothing you'll notice, but they're not the same thing, no. Even if S60 is a pretty good gaming set.

I thought the W900 was ~15ms with Leo Bodnar without Motionflow Impulse, but was ~30ms with it.

<1 frame of input lag is not noticeable in console games.

If you were talking about something like a twitch shooter with M&KB that is running at 120+ FPS, different story. But when frames are only being delivered every 33.3ms or less, it's not going to be a concern at all.

On top of that, you get CRT quality motion resolution when it's enabled. That's nothing.

You are right, there is no "real" reason to get fixated on the difference between 10-15 ms of input lag when both are <40ms. I really like the looks of the Sony, but I'm still not convinced that it would be the right choice for me in my home... it does look like a hell of a TV though.

 

[Animal]

Forgive me for not reading the whole 93 page thread guys but I'm wondering what is the consensus on the low end scale of televisions for gaming.

I have a budget of no more than 400 to 500 dollars Canadian and this television will be exclusively for gaming mounted on a wall arm.

Priorities are response time and image quality of course.

 

[Dead]

Hmm... the W900A does seem like a good set, but my concern is off-axis viewing since none of my seating are directly in front of my TV. This is why I went plasma six years ago, and this is still the reason why I'm leaning towards plasma again; especially considering that I can get an S60 for less than half of what the W900A costs (although I would gladly pay the extra cost if I felt it would give me a better set).

W900 will provide better color than the S60, a far better panel that is less reflective by quite a margin, just as good motion if not better with the impulse motion flow. S60 isnt even close to the 900.

If you're comparing the 900 to a plasma it should be the VT60. VT60 is cheaper and has better blacks but is still the better comparison.

 

[Curly]

W900 will provide better color than the S60, a far better panel that is less reflective by quite a margin, just as good motion if not better with the impulse motion flow. S60 isnt even close to the 900.

If you're comparing the 900 to a plasma it should be the VT60. VT60 is cheaper and has better blacks but is still the better comparison.

This post is... highly debatable and completely subjective.

Personally, I was more impressed with the image quality of the HX850 than the W900 and nearly purchased a leftover 65" of the former earlier this year. However, a few things put me off: I didn't like the post-tweaking PQ as much as the S60 or higher model Panasonics (by which you can formulate where I rank the W900 relative to the S60) nor the F8500 Samsung when comparing in a dimly lit Magnolia showroom with Blu Ray content, off-axis viewing was poor and I feared the wrath of my significant other, (comparable to the W900) and there was a high probability of having to deal with a panel uniformity issue. (vertical banding was a prevalent issue with these models)

On the whole, backlit > side lit... and even a cheap plasma bests them both in contrast, saturation, and motion handling.

My recommendation when television shopping? Go with the cheapest option that you have a high level of interest in and make sure you can exchange it if it doesn't fit your needs. Demo it in your home with your preferred sources/usage. If you're happy/wowed, stick with it. If not, exchange it and go to your next most expensive option.

*Keeping in mind that a return does affect the income of someone, somewhere and you're potentially increasing your carbon footprint.

 

[op_ivy]

cross posting this in the xbox one launch thread - not sure if its an xbox one issue or something that needs to be modified with my new tv (panasonic s60).

problem: when playing on the xbox, the blacks have a lot of noise in the form of green pixels dancing about. it looks like tv "snow" but only with black and green pixels. its not super noticeable, except during transitions/loading in which the whole screen is black - but its obviously something i'd like to correct. it also seems to have gotten a bit worse over the last few days. i dont recall even seeing it until a few days ago and now its rather obvious.

any ideas to what the cause may be and how to fix it?

 

[Dead]

This post is... highly debatable and completely subjective.

Personally, I was more impressed with the image quality of the HX850 than the W900 and nearly purchased a leftover 65" of the former earlier this year. However, a few things put me off: I didn't like the post-tweaking PQ as much as the S60 or higher model Panasonics (by which you can formulate where I rank the W900 relative to the S60) nor the F8500 Samsung when comparing in a dimly lit Magnolia showroom with Blu Ray content, off-axis viewing was poor and I feared the wrath of my significant other, (comparable to the W900) and there was a high probability of having to deal with a panel uniformity issue. (vertical banding was a prevalent issue with these models)

On the whole, backlit > side lit... and even a cheap plasma bests them both in contrast, saturation, and motion handling.

My recommendation when television shopping? Go with the cheapest option that you have a high level of interest in and make sure you can exchange it if it doesn't fit your needs. Demo it in your home with your preferred sources/usage. If you're happy/wowed, stick with it. If not, exchange it and go to your next most expensive option.

*Keeping in mind that a return does affect the income of someone, somewhere and you're potentially increasing your carbon footprint.

Theres tons of arguements for why a higher end Panny panel or even an F8500 are better. But something like an S60...Lower end Plasmas look odious for the most part imo unless you plan on never watching your TV during the day. I love the tech but they have to have a decent panel/filter...

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

Theres tons of arguements for why a higher end Panny panel or even an F8500 are better. But something like an S60...Lower end Plasmas look odious for the most part imo unless you plan on never watching your TV during the day. I love the tech but they have to have a decent panel/filter...

Co-signed...

 

[Mobius 1]

cross posting this in the xbox one launch thread - not sure if its an xbox one issue or something that needs to be modified with my new tv (panasonic s60).

problem: when playing on the xbox, the blacks have a lot of noise in the form of green pixels dancing about. it looks like tv "snow" but only with black and green pixels. its not super noticeable, except during transitions/loading in which the whole screen is black - but its obviously something i'd like to correct. it also seems to have gotten a bit worse over the last few days. i dont recall even seeing it until a few days ago and now its rather obvious.

any ideas to what the cause may be and how to fix it?

Nevermind.

 

[ReyVGM]

I've never seen a Plasma before, but are all those Image Retention "problems" something that serious or are all those complainers just young'uns that never used a CRT?

CRT TVs also had image retention and that never bothered me. And you could get permantent image retention if you abused it too, but that never ever happened to me.

Are plasma's IR "problems" similar to CRT TV's or are they really more serious/delicate?