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[Joeki11a]

On newish TV's If you get a calibration BluRay you can copy your settings to other inputs i.e. Your Fios input. The problem with the TV's browser is often times you can't make fine adjustments to the picture because a lot of the settings are greyed out, and/or some of the picture modes won't be available while using the browser.

My TV allows all adjusments it has alot from advance to expert, I can run the browser full screen and have Fios or PS4 on the lower corner picture in picture style.
Toshiba 50L 73000 240hz Smart Tv,

 

[Chitown B]

Pioneer was the first to make a plasma that didn't look horribly washed out and reflective inside a lit room.

Buying a 5010FD was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Yeah it was $3K but after 5 years I still am very happy with my purchase every day

 

[spwolf]

Its nice to want things but reality is, that the models from 32 - 46 inch are the top selling devices. So thats what the masses apprently want, not everyone has big apartments or houses with room enough for those 65 inchers. And of course there is always price. 2000$ isnt mainstream, nowhere.

it is certainly price, 42" are cheap, 50" are lot more expensive and 55" and above are crazy expensive. I want to get 55" but I cant justify price difference over my current 50".

 

[IvorB]

Depends on your room/livingroom size. I'm positive that people who have enough space to fit a 50+ inch plasma into their homes don't even care that much about price. Those who can afford 60" and above could be considered enthusiasts due to the extremely overpricing and amazing PQ of those sets.

Well I live in a London apartment so I don't have huge amounts of space but I feel the TV is the centre piece of the living room. So I don't really mind if it totally dominates the space. I could even do... 84 inches I reckon.

 

[AlimNassor]

42" is too big? That's the minimum for me. I'm at 55 and could go bigger.

I can't fit it in my room. I have a small room.

 

[Chitown B]

I find it hard to believe someone has a room with a wall that isn't at least 4' wide

 

[Haint]

Actually, there's a simple and more likely explanation.

Panasonic 30 series plasma models had rising blacks.

It wasn't until a firmware update that the fix was issued.

Now, on series 10 and 20 the first rise was done around the 180 hours of operation and it was 0.03 cd/m^2 rise.

It's only normal, if it was a review that while testing they broke it in and all that, if they didn't measure it straight out of the box then they could be measuring after the rising blacks took place. Back then it was a known issue so reviewers effectively talked about it, that it had rising blacks (some reviews some months afterwards citing that said information was outdated et all)

ST30 had lower blacks than that. For that's roughly what my 42S10 had out of the box. (perhaps a little lower even, V10 was 0.03 cd/m^2 after all.

The XX30's didn't have rising blacks, you are referring to what was coined "Fluctuating Brightness"--which was minimized/improved with a FW update (in EU at least). For some reason the US did not release FW, they did full on A-board swaps with the software fix pre-installed. Supposedly the nature of the fix was such that they could not secure the code and/or medium, so they only allowed first party Panasonic techs to apply the SD card FW fix (of which there were only a handful). It never made it to the public or authorized repair centers, they did A-board swaps instead. The problem had nothing to do with MLL, it looked like a delayed gamma adjustment or auto iris opening/closing as scenes changed.

The likely culprit for outlier measurements is mistaken readings of IR/Phosphorescence. If you try to measure the MLL directly after having run slides for 100 hours, or an hour of calibration windows, you're going to have noticeable IR/Phosphorescence elevating the black level. Spectrophotometers also drift and degrade crazy fast, and I believe Chad used a Chroma 5 for that reading.

 

[demosthenes]

Actually, there's a simple and more likely explanation.

Panasonic 30 series plasma models had rising blacks.

It wasn't until a firmware update that the fix was issued.

Now, on series 10 and 20 the first rise was done around the 180 hours of operation and it was 0.03 cd/m^2 rise.

It's only normal, if it was a review that while testing they broke it in and all that, if they didn't measure it straight out of the box then they could be measuring after the rising blacks took place. Back then it was a known issue so reviewers effectively talked about it, that it had rising blacks (some reviews some months afterwards citing that said information was outdated et all)

ST30 had lower blacks than that. For that's roughly what my 42S10 had out of the box. (perhaps a little lower even, V10 was 0.03 cd/m^2 after all.

First rise comes in around 295 hours:
http://panasonic.mironto.sk/restoring_black/mll_readings/

 

[lostinblue]

The XX30's didn't have rising blacks, you are referring to what was coined "Fluctuating Brightness"--which was minimized/improved with a FW update (in EU at least). For some reason the US did not release FW, they did full on A-board swaps with the software fix pre-installed. Supposedly the nature of the fix was such that they could not secure the code and/or medium, so they only allowed first party Panasonic techs to apply the SD card FW fix (of which there were only a handful). It never made it to the public or authorized repair centers, they did A-board swaps instead. The problem had nothing to do with MLL, it looked like a delayed gamma adjustment or auto iris opening/closing as scenes changed.

ok, I was under the impression floating blacks were the very same.

Even because they ceased at the same time, I remember talks of flating blacks prior to series 30 after all, as I did for the rising issue.

First rise comes in around 295 hours:
http://panasonic.mironto.sk/restoring_black/mll_readings/

Not according to other dude working on the issue.

According to him first rise happens around 180 hours (perhaps it varies model to model or year to year) and that's why he set the hour count reset devide to 150 hours.

 

[IvorB]

I can't fit it in my room. I have a small room.

Ah okay. Fair enough.

 

[demosthenes]

ok, I was under the impression floating blacks were the very same.Not according to other dude working on the issue.

(I seem to recall people saying the first rise event is around 180 hours or so, but I’ll double check that over the coming days.)

Whereas the link I contributed has specific proof.

They're actually sort of working together. The link I posted is a DIY fix to make V10, V20 black levels back to original. The link you posted is a guy trying to take the original DIY fix just mentiond and make it a permanent attachment to the TV that keeps reseting black levels. Otherwise you'll have to do it once every 295 hours.

 

[lostinblue]

Whereas the link I contributed has specific proof.

They're actually sort of working together. The link I posted is a DIY fix to make V10, V20 black levels back to original. The link you posted is a guy trying to take the original DIY fix just mentiond and make it a permanent attachment to the TV that keeps reseting black levels. Otherwise you'll have to do it once every 295 hours.

cheers, thanks, I've following both to some extent, messing with a arduino was in my plans for a variety of reasons (write eeprom to fork some custom snes carts) but I also felt the whole setup was kinda flimsy.

I'll probably buy the $30 reset board, hence I've been keeping tabs on said dude.

 

[demosthenes]

cheers, thanks, I've following both to some extent, messing with a arduino was in my plans for a variety of reasons (write eeprom to fork some custom snes carts) but I also felt the whole setup was kinda flimsy.

I'll probably buy the $30 reset board, hence I've been keeping tabs on said dude.

I just purchased the board and some excess parts from Miro. As Miro is in Czech I probably won't have his for a week or two. Hopefully I'll have mine done soon and will report results, I will have to reset mine every ~295 hours or so to keep blacks at the original levels which will shorten the lifespan of my TV, but I never wanted it to last 100,000 hours anyway :lol. If you go to the link I posted you will see pictures that Miro took that REALLY show the black level rise and how it impacts your set. Specifically look at the Batman pictures, it is night and day.

Take a look:
Original:

Highest black level:

After reset:

 

[Haint]

ok, I was under the impression floating blacks were the very same.

Even because they ceased at the same time, I remember talks of flating blacks prior to series 30 after all, as I did for the rising issue.

Yea Floating Blacks (common in 2010's) and Rising Blacks ('08, '09, possibly earlier) were 2 separate issues. RB was obviously a significant and permanent elevation of the MLL. FB was a temporary black level fluctuation with scene changes. The 2010's were actually affected by both.

Not according to other dude working on the issue.

According to him first rise happens around 180 hours (perhaps it varies model to model or year to year) and that's why he set the hour count reset devide to 150 hours.

Yea the hour count of rising blacks did seem to vary. I'm not sure if it was model, size, or if they kept track of some variable that could differ based on picture settings/modes/whatever.

 

[demosthenes]

Yea Floating Blacks (common in 2010's) and Rising Blacks ('08, '09, possibly earlier) were 2 separate issues. RB was obviously a significant and permanent elevation of the MLL. FB was a black level fluctuation with scene changes. The 2010's were actually affected by both.



Yea the hour count of rising blacks did seem to vary. I'm not sure if it was model, size, or if they kept track of some variable that could differ based on picture settings/modes/whatever.

See above. It's not permanent. Rising blacks was always based on hours of use. The way to reverse it is to get into the service menu and reset the hour count to 0.

 

[lostinblue]

I just purchased the board and some excess parts from Miro. As Miro is in Czech I probably won't have his for a week or two. Hopefully I'll have mine done soon and will report results, I will have to reset mine every ~295 hours or so to keep blacks at the original levels which will shorten the lifespan of my TV, but I never wanted it to last 100,000 hours anyway :lol. If you go to the link I posted you will see pictures that Miro took that REALLY show the black level rise and how it impacts your set. Specifically look at the Batman pictures, it is night and day.

I've been showing those images to people I know with panasonics models ending with 10 and 20 while pointing them to the new board.

Because telling them to go macgyver is too much. I'll probably end up buying one and having to reset a few in the area as I have some friends with G10's and G20's, but it's intended to have my old plasma as it's resting place.

I'm not under the impression of it hampering the panel lifespan, but it's as you said, the panel lasting 100.000 hours without servicing should be bar impossible too.

PS: I brought my grandpa to the hospital since he took a fall and called... and I don't know what's with the place but the net coverage is horrid, I'm having severe problems in getting the replys across here.

 

[Haint]

See above. It's not permanent. Rising blacks was always based on hours of use. The way to reverse it is to get into the service menu and reset the hour count to 0.

Thanks, I was aware. The hour count certainly varied based on something though (model, size, who knows). I recall Cnet still had some units measuring 0.008 at 500 hours. I know my G10 doubled between 300 and 400 hours, and there was a user with very specific notes who had apparently doubled by 146 hours.

 

[demosthenes]

Thanks, I was aware. The hour count certainly varied based on something though (model, size, who knows). I recall Cnet still had some units measuring 0.008 at 500 hours. I know my G10 doubled between 300 and 400 hours, and there was a user with very specific notes who had apparently doubled by 146 hours.

That's concerning. Hopefully mine is more along the lines of what Miro tested.

 

[Rex_Harrison]

Depends on your room/livingroom size. I'm positive that people who have enough space to fit a 50+ inch plasma into their homes don't even care that much about price. Those who can afford 60" and above could be considered enthusiasts due to the extremely overpricing and amazing PQ of those sets.

You really don't need that much space for a 60". Sure, it'd be a bit much in a small bedroom, but I've never seen a Living Room that was too small to fit a 60". I install home internet/cable, so I've seen 1,000's of homes. There are entertainment centers which do limit space though. I can't stand huge entertainment centers, they are so unnecessary. They turn a 10 second wire swap into a 15min 2 man job. Why people ? Why ?

Also, I wouldn't call someone an enthusiast just because they have a 60". Vizio's flagship M 60" sold for $1100 at the end of last year. They also had the E series which was under $1k for a 60".

IMO a lot of people have distorted views of what's too big. Anything under 50" is too small for just about every living room

 

[Canon]

I was gonna call the S60's motion handeling terrible but I realized it may just be DmC on PS3 being choppy. I'll test more stuff. That game skips frames and moves like a slideshow sometimes.

 

[batman2million]

I'm thinking of getting the Samsung UN40EH5000. Does any one have any impressions or opinions?

 

[lostinblue]

I'm thinking of getting the Samsung UN40EH5000. Does any one have any impressions or opinions?

panel lottery going on in there, with some very bad panels too.

And I think it is a 2012 model?

 

[Canon]

Are 2014 TV's coming out in March or April approximately?

 

[lostinblue]

Are 2014 TV's coming out in March or April approximately?

I believe so, yes. The ones announced at CES that is. There's always some surprise models launched when they're ready throughout the year.

Doesn't mean current models are not worth it specially if they're on discount, but samsung's 5000 range is plagued by panel lottery, sadly. You can always buy one knowing that and see if you're lucky.

In case you're not... Trade it as many times as it takes. That said I pretty much avoid Samsung due to that kind of behaviour of theirs.

 

[Bluenova]

Hey have a general question of you experiences with Ghosting.

Is the appearance of ghosting natural to occur/increase as the panel ages? As it gets used?
This can apply to multiple panel types so I mean LCD generally. I realize brightness and color fade happens but seems this is discussed less.


As it would follow I bought a nice 40" 1080 Toshiba in 2008, and aside from some cinematic 24p pulldown judder, no other perceived faults.

Now, though tires of other cars in GT6 leave ugly ghost trails as I drive around them.. a few other games too :-(

 

[Jack cw]

Now, though tires of other cars in GT6 leave ugly ghost trails as I drive around them.. a few other games too :-(

Depends on the quality of the panel of course. Abration is something that happens over the years but things like ghosting or smearing that you describe have more to to with LCD technology because its based on hold type images. So you need an ultra fast panel to avoid those. Have you turned off all the enchancements like motion plus and those stupid filters?

 

[batman2million]

panel lottery going on in there, with some very bad panels too.

And I think it is a 2012 model?

After reading your post I started looking into this whole panel lottery! Thanks for the warning!

I'm going to try and get the better brand ones if hopefully if I can find out properly how to tell the difference.

 

[lostinblue]

After reading your post I started looking into this whole panel lottery! Thanks for the warning!

I'm going to try and get the better brand ones if hopefully if I can find out properly how to tell the difference.

There's a way to check the panel on them via menu, what people do then is get home and check that straight away.

Personally it's just too much for me, because I'm really anal, I test for dead pixels and panel uniformity and if anything's just too much I take it straight back, I'm simply not open to yet another thing to check or be screwed on that spectrum.

I's already rare as it is for me to get a LCD I'm happy with, I feel the whole panel lottery thing kinda makes you settle for the first so-so thing you land because you're the dude that went there 5 times already.

 

[batman2million]

There's a way to check the panel on them via menu, what people do then is get home and check that straight away.

Personally it's just too much for me, because I'm really anal, I test for dead pixels and panel uniformity and if anything's just too much I take it straight back, I'm simply not open to yet another thing to check or be screwed on that spectrum.

I's already rare as it is for me to get a LCD I'm happy with, I feel the whole panel lottery thing kinda makes you settle for the first so-so thing you land because you're the dude that went there 5 times already.

So there's no way to tell from the box? I'm reading mixed things online.

 

[Rex_Harrison]

So there's no way to tell from the box? I'm reading mixed things online.

When I went TV shopping at Costco I checked the box's for the panel model. All of the Samsungs had panel models on the side of the box, on the same sticker as the Serial #. The 55" F7050's only had 1 panel. The F6300 and F6400 had about 3 different panels apiece.

 

[batman2million]

When I went TV shopping at Costco I checked the box's for the panel model. All of the Samsungs had panel models on the side of the box, on the same sticker as the Serial #. The 55" F7050's only had 1 panel. The F6300 and F6400 had about 3 different panels apiece.

Awesome!! Thanks for the info. Now I hope the best buy frys employee are able and willing to look for me.

 

[Neuromancer]

I have a question about my Panasonic P65VT50. Is it possible to set the sound to come out of the TV speakers, even though I have my sound system hooked up through optical? Reason being, sometimes I want to play games and have that sound come out of the TV speakers and listen to music on my sound system at the same time. My old TV let me do this, but I can't figure it out on this one. Thanks.

 

[Hindl]

Any thoughts of 42LN5400 vs 47LN5200? I can't decide between the extra size vs extra Hz

 

[AlimNassor]

So, do all LED?LCD TVs have that lag? I was playing Knack on the W900 at best buy and the frame rate was in the toilet. It was uneven, and it bothered me because the IQ was amazing.

 

[wowzors]

So, do all LED?LCD TVs have that lag? I was playing Knack on the W900 at best buy and the frame rate was in the toilet. It was uneven, and it bothered me because the IQ was amazing.

The W900 has the lowest lag of any tv, if you noticed frame lags it wasnt from the TV it was the games frame rate.

 

[AlimNassor]

The W900 has the lowest lag of any tv, if you noticed frame lags it wasnt from the TV it was the games frame rate.

It wasn't input lag, but, it was like janky as hell. I guess that was knack...

 

[Haint]

It wasn't input lag, but, it was like janky as hell. I guess that was knack...

Yea Knack runs around 40fps and is juddery as hell for it.

 

[ReyVGM]

I have a question about my Panasonic P65VT50. Is it possible to set the sound to come out of the TV speakers, even though I have my sound system hooked up through optical? Reason being, sometimes I want to play games and have that sound come out of the TV speakers and listen to music on my sound system at the same time. My old TV let me do this, but I can't figure it out on this one. Thanks.

I've read several people asking for the complete opposite of that. Anyway, apparently the option to enable/disable the TV's speakers is not the in TV's menu, but on the apps thingie.

 

[Duebrithil]

Looked a bit around the other day, and the Sony KDL-32W650 caught my attention. Anyone have first hand experience with it? The 42" version seems to have less input lag but I think it might be too big (for reference, wall to wall distance is 1,84m while wall to table edge is 68cm). On the other hand, I guess the problems arising from having an edge-lit TV might be less noticeable on a smaller screen.

How are Asus' VG248QE and MX279H for console use? The specs seem nice enough on paper.

 

[Lostconfused]

How are Asus' VG248QE and MX279H for console use? The specs seem nice enough on paper.

Both are PC monitors so they won't be as nice for console use as a TV. Not to mention that one is a TN panel thats meant for 120hz or Stereo 3D gaming.

 

[LAM09]

I was just wondering if Curved TV's make a major difference to your viewing experience compared to straight sets?

 

[lostinblue]

I was just wondering if Curved TV's make a major difference to your viewing experience compared to straight sets?

Hell fucking no.

Curved only makes sense at 100 inches and over, it's mostly an IMAX gimmick that someone thought would sell TV sets if it made it across.

On smaller sets it means only one person is really in the right position to see it, even if the curvature is slight, it's the principle.

 

[Neuromancer]

I've read several people asking for the complete opposite of that. Anyway, apparently the option to enable/disable the TV's speakers is not the in TV's menu, but on the apps thingie.

Weird thanks. I'll look for that.

 

[LAM09]

Hell fucking no.

Curved only makes sense at 100 inches and over, it's mostly an IMAX gimmick that someone thought would sell TV sets if it made it across.

On smaller sets it means only one person is really in the right position to see it, even if the curvature is slight, it's the principle.

Cheers for the info. I thought that was probably the case.

 

[Rex_Harrison]

Hell fucking no.

Curved only makes sense at 100 inches and over, it's mostly an IMAX gimmick that someone thought would sell TV sets if it made it across.

On smaller sets it means only one person is really in the right position to see it, even if the curvature is slight, it's the principle.

Agreed.

The G word gets thrown around pretty loosely sometimes but a 55" TV with a curved screen has no benefit and is purely a gimmick to get people in showrooms. Off center viewing is atrocious. In an IMAX theater it makes sense because it's like the screen is surrounding you, but in home, it makes no sense. There is nothing wrong with flat panels.

Manufacturers have been trying to reinvent the TV for quite a while now. Now that everyone and their grandma has an HDTV, sales aren't what they used to be. So manufacturers have been scrambling to find something that everyone will want to upgrade to. 3D failed to do that. They were hoping that people would upgrade their "Smart" TV's every couple of years like they do religiously with their smartphones, but that failed. Now it's 4K and curved screens !

The whole idea of " Smart TV's" is crap. What's the need ? The built in tech will be outdated in 1-2 years from purchase, it will be slow as hell and not offer all of the features that are available on new devices. Sure, Samsung offers the joke "Evolution Kit" for $300, but why the hell would anyone buy it when you can buy a Google Chromecast for $35 !!!? I just don't get it.

I wish they would just get back to the basics, amazing PQ and nothing more.

 

[Hindl]

Any thoughts of 42LN5400 vs 47LN5200? I can't decide between the extra size vs extra Hz

Sorry to bump this and keep asking but I actually found the 47LN5400 which has the bigger size and extra Hz. But the 47LN5200 is deal of the day at best buy for a lot cheaper and I could pick it up today, whereas the 5400 would have to be shipped and cost extra. Is the extra 60hz worth all that trouble?

Thanks for any help

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Sorry to bump this and keep asking but I actually found the 47LN5400 which has the bigger size and extra Hz. But the 47LN5200 is deal of the day at best buy for a lot cheaper and I could pick it up today, whereas the 5400 would have to be shipped and cost extra. Is the extra 60hz worth all that trouble?

Thanks for any help

I think the 55" version of that was sold during Black Friday for $500.
The lower end model is stripped of the 120hz motion options I think. Other than that they are the same exact panel.

Picture quality is pretty mediocre.

I would go in store to see them in person before buying online, you might regret it after seeing how it looks.

 

[Hindl]

I think the 55" version of that was sold during Black Friday for $500.
The lower end model is stripped of the 120hz motion options I think. Other than that they are the same exact panel.

Picture quality is pretty mediocre.

I would go in store to see them in person before buying online, you might regret it after seeing how it looks.

Yeah I knew they were the same aside from the hz motion and I figured it would be the same. I knew the picture quality wouldn't be great but I get what I pay for. Honestly I really wanted the tc p42s60 plasma but I can't find any 1080p for the right price. I'll go to the store tonight to look thanks

 

[Duebrithil]

Both are PC monitors so they won't be as nice for console use as a TV. Not to mention that one is a TN panel thats meant for 120hz or Stereo 3D gaming.

That's the thing though, it would also double as a PC monitor. Finding a good compromise is a pain in the ass...

 

[ReyVGM]

I'm now the proud owner of the 55'' VT60!

It's still in the box though because I have to make space for it, but jeez that screen sure is glossy! Even more than my old CRT (I have never used LCD).
I just turned it on after delivery to see if it worked and the blacks in the menu were grey. But I know that's because it's not calibrated or anything like that. I don't know what I was expecting

I will give more impressions after a few days.