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[~Devil Trigger~]

Glad to see I wasn't the only person confused by this episode. I was a bit distracted because I was checking fantasy scores but it just seemed very hard to follow overall.

Gotta say, I didn't quite get the ending. I didn't catch the part where Beth and that fellow developed a bond where she'd be happy that he douched out and left her behind like that.

wut?

did we watch the same eps...

 

[Loke13]

Well...last season builds up towards them meeting each other and little bit of Abraham going to DC.
What they did now basically destroys that momentum.

Now it's character developments all over again with overlaps.

I'm not sure what you want here as of right the current cast stands at about 16 members how would you give them equal amounts of screen time without splitting them up? We can exclude Judith from the count which I guess brings the total to 15 people which is still a whopping of a number.

 

[.GqueB.]

He didn't have a choice, unless he wanted to surrender to those loons again. That's why she smiled at him; she was happy he could at least escape...

Why is this so hard to understand -_-

Maybe my problem was with the actor then. A look of concern would've helped I guess. He just didn't seem to care all that much. He just kept walking as if she wasn't even there. He just kind of peaced. It was an awkward scene. Didn't work for me.

And, again, I didn't really see a bond there where that sacrifice made sense.

 

[blazenumb1]

Maybe my problem was with the actor then. A look of concern would've helped I guess. He just didn't seem to care all that much. He just kept walking as if she wasn't even there. He just kind of peaced. It was an awkward scene. Didn't work for me.

And, again, I didn't really see a bond there where that sacrifice made sense.

I see the bond, if you remember he took the blame for that guy dying when Beth gave him medicine(although she was set up by the doctor in giving the wrong stuff) and got beat pretty good for it.

He saw that was his chance to escape and one of them getting away was better than both getting captured and probably beat again.

 

[Godan]

I liked the episode really shows how far Beth has came and that she can handle herself.


I think that

A: Rick and that all go help get Beth and Carol back as that dude is with Daryl and tells them about it all.

B: Carol wakes up and Beth tells her about everything without them know and Carol takes care of them all cause shes a badass

 

[Zalasta]

I love how one episode with Daryl and one episode by herself automatically have people declaring that Beth is a good character now, it also somehow excused her from two seasons worth of doing nothing. To a lesser extent that was what happened with Carol as well. Give her some bad ass scenes and let us all praise how great she has become. And again with Michonne when she had her flashback. How long ago did that happen? Look at her now, back to being just another no personality character (well, I guess at least she talks a little more and maybe emote once in a while). What about Glenn? He is a pale comparison to what he was back in season 1. I'm sorry, good character development take arcs and time. The Walking Dead have always had problems like this, so the writers take these shortcuts and the fans eat them up.

Anyway, I actually thought the episode was decent. It was an interesting look at how another group has managed to survived. Unfortunately, it was made less compelling due to Beth being the focus. I didn't really care about her before the episode and I remained unconvinced after. I actually thought everyone else around her had a more interesting story than herself, to be honest.

 

[Alpende]

I think Beth didn't really consider them as evil (The rapist guy aside) and just wanted to get out of there. Murdering half of them would have been a bit hardcore .

Bring in... Carol.

 

[Byakuya769]

I love how one episode with Daryl and one episode by herself automatically have people declaring that Beth is a good character now, it also somehow excused her from two seasons worth of doing nothing. To a lesser extent that was what happened with Carol as well. Give her some bad ass scenes and let us all praise how great she has become. And again with Michonne when she had her flashback. How long ago did that happen? Look at her now, back to being just another no personality character (well, I guess at least she talks a little more and maybe emote once in a while). What about Glenn? He is a pale comparison to what he was back in season 1. I'm sorry, good character development take arcs and time. The Walking Dead have always had problems like this, so the writers take these shortcuts and the fans eat them up.

Anyway, I actually thought the episode was decent. It was an interesting look at how another group has managed to survived. Unfortunately, it was made less compelling due to Beth being the focus. I didn't really care about her before the episode and I remained unconvinced after. I actually thought everyone else around her had a more interesting story than herself, to be honest.

Movies cram character arcs into 90 minutes all the time. I don't think a few dedicated episodes is so outlandish.

 

[.GqueB.]

I love how one episode with Daryl and one episode by herself automatically have people declaring that Beth is a good character now, it also somehow excused her from two seasons worth of doing nothing. To a lesser extent that was what happened with Carol as well. Give her some bad ass scenes and let us all praise how great she has become. And again with Michonne when she had her flashback. How long ago did that happen? Look at her now, back to being just another no personality character (well, I guess at least she talks a little more and maybe emote once in a while). What about Glenn? He is a pale comparison to what he was back in season 1. I'm sorry, good character development take arcs and time. The Walking Dead have always had problems like this, so the writers take these shortcuts and the fans eat them up.

Anyway, I actually thought the episode was decent. It was an interesting look at how another group has managed to survived. Unfortunately, it was made less compelling due to Beth being the focus. I didn't really care about her before the episode and I remained unconvinced after. I actually thought everyone else around her had a more interesting story than herself, to be honest.

I was a big fan of the doctor personally. He had a nice story in this episode.

I disagree a bit with your first paragraph. The things you mentioned were attempts to remedy the problems everyone had with those characters before. So what is it? Damned if you do damned if you don't? You say Michonne is back to being a no personality character? They haven't really had much opportunity to build out the "human" aspects of these characters because they haven't had a moment to breath in a while.

And Why would Gleen still be the guy from season 1? He's changed (who wouldn't) but why do you consider it a downgrade?

I personally think breaking them up again was the best thing they could do at this point. From what I saw last season, smaller groups work. Those were some of the best episodes by far.

 

[Chopper]

I enjoyed the episode, but thought the suggestions about the dangers of the hospital were far too vague. Gorman was obviously a nasty piece of work, but otherwise I failed to realise what was really going on, aside from having a control-freak leader.

 

[Loke13]

I love how one episode with Daryl and one episode by herself automatically have people declaring that Beth is a good character now, it also somehow excused her from two seasons worth of doing nothing. To a lesser extent that was what happened with Carol as well. Give her some bad ass scenes and let us all praise how great she has become. And again with Michonne when she had her flashback. How long ago did that happen? Look at her now, back to being just another no personality character (well, I guess at least she talks a little more and maybe emote once in a while). What about Glenn? He is a pale comparison to what he was back in season 1. I'm sorry, good character development take arcs and time. The Walking Dead have always had problems like this, so the writers take these shortcuts and the fans eat them up.

Anyway, I actually thought the episode was decent. It was an interesting look at how another group has managed to survived. Unfortunately, it was made less compelling due to Beth being the focus. I didn't really care about her before the episode and I remained unconvinced after. I actually thought everyone else around her had a more interesting story than herself, to be honest.

I disagree with most of what you said but this here most of all have you even been watching this Season? Did you completely miss the Rick and Michonne exchange that they had in episode 2? That conversation alone showed that she was growing as a character and distancing herself from Season 3/pre-season 3 persona.

I enjoyed the episode, but thought the suggestions about the dangers of the hospital were far too vague. Gorman was obviously a nasty piece of work, but otherwise I failed to realise what was really going on, aside from having a control-freak leader.

Having a control freak for a leader pretty much was the root of the problem every other danger of the hospital pretty much stemmed from that, the forced servitude, the physical abuse, the emotional abuse, the rapes.

 

[Overdoziz]

It wasn't great at all. It was awful. And I question the judgment of anyone who dares to justify that as a good episode. It had some of the worst wooden acting I have ever seen in a television show. And that's saying quite a lot for the Walking Dead, the king of bad acting. I've seen better acting on reality television. It's like they asked a bunch of their stage hands if they wanted to act and then gave them the job to avoid hiring some actual actors.

The dialogue as I've mentioned before was dreadful. Beth asks the new amputee what the guard had done to her and instead of simply answering the question she responds with some drivel about Satan or something. Just the typical bunch of fucking nonsense and filler crap that's a staple of this show. It's like none one can answer each other on the show straight. Everything has to be in riddles or as vague as possible.

And, what was the point of the Dr bringing Beth down to the zombies in the lower levels? Like telling her they can't leave because there are zombies all over the place wasn't enough? Hey it's that same 'ol zombies-behind-a-blockade-to-show-they're-a-threat scene which we've seen like over a 100 times by now. Yeah, those zombies which many characters can now seemingly dispatch of in droves with a butter knife are totally impossible for a small army of officers with guns to take care off. Yeah, this situation is a total conundrum. And, how pointless was it that he had to get Beth to kill for him when he could have simply done it himself. It's not as if any of those officers had equal medical training so he could have made it look like it wasn't a murder.

Nothing in his episode made any damn sense. And the idea that these guys would just knock her out and kidnap her out of nowhere is equally as confusing. Why were they driving around in the middle of the woods at night? What's the point of rescuing people if you're going to act like assholes and allow people to deplete your resources? At least Terminus made sense since they wanted food.

amen


less terrible acting and dialogue, more dumb action scenes please

 

[Lothar]

It doesn't have the same effect though. Because the pain of the slap wasn't the intent. It was a threat to Beth. It was "do as I say or she'll suffer for your refusal."

Alright, this makes sense. That's a good answer. I wonder how many people got that though. This might be one of those times where it may have better for her to say it straight out. I didn't even understand her relationship with the doctor at the time. I thought they were equals. I need to watch this episode again.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Alright, this makes sense. That's a good answer. I wonder how many people got that though. This might be one of those times where it may have better for her to say it straight out. I didn't even understand her relationship with the doctor at the time. I thought they were equals. I need to watch this episode again.

Well the concept for the episode, as another Gaffer pointed out earlier in the thread, was that everything we saw, we saw from Beth's perspective. So the viewer is only ever as knowledgeable as Beth is at any given time. This is why few things are explicitly stated and things only start being confirmed later in the ep as she's gained enough information to actually understand things. To put us in the same shoes as Beth.

The only exception being the last scene with the Doc, where Beth surmises that the patient he made her kill was a Doctor. That's supposed to help signify the amount of growth Beth has had. Early on she has ideas of what's happening based on various insinuations from other characters but by the end she fully trusts her intuition and instincts.

 

[Kinyou]

Bring in... Carol.

lol, true. She's the right woman for that.

 

[eso76]

i love how every character in the show keeps forgetting the "disguise as a zombie by wearing zombie guts to walk among them completely unnoticed" trick.


Also, no matter how much slow motion and strobo they applied to the escape scene, there were a grand total of like 7 or 8 zombies scattered in a 1000square yards field that Beth could easily avoid and outrun...

But anyway, liked the change of pace, hope this doesn't turn into another rick's group going commando against a new governor.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

i love how every character in the show keeps forgetting the "disguise as a zombie by wearing zombie guts to walk among them completely unnoticed" trick.


Also, no matter how much slow motion and strobo they applied to the escape scene, there were a grand total of like 7 or 8 zombies scattered in a 1000square yards field that Beth could easily avoid and outrun...

But anyway, liked the change of pace, hope this doesn't turn into another rick's group going commando against a new governor.

are we sure that everyone knows about that trick? I'm not sure I recall beth ever being exposed to it. I could be wrong and just don't remember.

 

[eso76]

are we sure that everyone knows about that trick? I'm not sure I recall beth ever being exposed to it. I could be wrong and just don't remember.

Maybe we haven't seen Beth being exposed to it but

a) even those who we've seen using the trick before keep forgetting about it.
b) that shit basically allows you to walk across zombie herds unharmed. it's not exactly minor. You'd imagine that whoever thought of it in the group would have spread the knowledge

anyway

Yeah, those zombies which many characters can now seemingly dispatch of in droves with a butter knife are totally impossible for a small army of officers with guns to take care off.

Uh, and why would they ? they run the place and have no interest in escaping.

Nothing in his episode made any damn sense. And the idea that these guys would just knock her out and kidnap her out of nowhere is equally as confusing. Why were they driving around in the middle of the woods at night? What's the point of rescuing people if you're going to act like assholes and allow people to deplete your resources? At least Terminus made sense since they wanted food

uh..they're having them work for them ?
and we don't know what happened to Beth or Carol.

 

[someday]

Alright, this makes sense. That's a good answer. I wonder how many people got that though. This might be one of those times where it may have better for her to say it straight out. I didn't even understand her relationship with the doctor at the time. I thought they were equals. I need to watch this episode again.

Hm, it seemed from the very beginning that they weren't equals. Beth is locked in a hospital room alone, then immediately told by the cop that she owes them.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Best episode this season. There's usually one good episode per season, so I guess this is it.

Sexy doctor man too! Assuming he's going to get eaten next episode though

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

It's basically slavery. They "abduct" people who look like they're in need and then manipulate/trap them into working for them so they can survive.

It's actually pretty twisted. I'm gonna enjoy Carol/Daryl wrecking them.

 

[Ecrofirt]

This episode was a slow burn, but I enjoyed it.

Beth outsmarted me with the doctor. I just thought he was being a prick, and hadn't connected the dots like she did for his reasoning.

That lollipop scene was so uncomfortable, and the violation hung in the air like a thick fog.

Definitely not the caliber of the previous episodes, though.

 

[Revolver]

Not my favorite episode but at least we see what happened to Beth. I guess we'll get another Woodbury situation where the gang goes in to save their own from yet another twisted survivor community or better yet Carol goes beast mode again and shuts that noise down from the inside. The worst thing that annoyed me was when Beth and Everybody Hates Chris were running away they just ran past a line of cars without even trying to use one to escape. It reminded me of that Geico horror movie commercial where everyone hides behind the wall of chainsaws instead of getting into the running car.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Not my favorite episode but at least we see what happened to Beth. I guess we'll get another Woodbury situation where the gang goes in to save their own from yet another twisted survivor community or better yet Carol goes beast mode again and shuts that noise down from the inside. The worst thing that annoyed me was when Beth and Everybody Hates Chris were running away they just ran past a line of cars without even trying to use one to escape. It reminded me of that Geico horror movie commercial where everyone hides behind the wall of chainsaws instead of getting into the running car.

trapping yourself in a car is pretty risky when you don't know how to jack one. Hoping for keys to be in there in an organized place is risky.

 

[Joni]

The worst thing that annoyed me was when Beth and Everybody Hates Chris were running away they just ran past a line of cars without even trying to use one to escape. It reminded me of that Geico horror movie commercial where everyone hides behind the wall of chainsaws instead of getting into the running car.

Okay, I just now realized it was the white friend from Everybody Hates Chris that appeared in season 4. I was thinking that couldn't be 'Young Chris Rock' because he had already appeared last year. Stupid of me.

 

[TheCrazyGuru]

Best episode this season. There's usually one good episode per season, so I guess this is it.

Sexy doctor man too! Assuming he's going to get eaten next episode though

I assume this is sarcasm? Sometimes hard to tell.

The doctor seems like an interesting character, but unfortunately the episode revolved around Beth who is one of the weakest / less interesting characters.

 

[Linius]

trapping yourself in a car is pretty risky when you don't know how to jack one. Hoping for keys to be in there in an organized place is risky.

Yeah, wouldn't have made sense to try and get a car. Though it could have made sense to prepare and get a car key before escaping

 

[sometimes i game]

a) even those who we've seen using the trick before keep forgetting about it.
b) that shit basically allows you to walk across zombie herds unharmed. it's not exactly minor. You'd imagine that whoever thought of it in the group would have spread the knowledge

Yeah, this went missing for a long time. Seems like they'd share it with the whole group. That said this must be riskier than it seems - smearing zombie blood and bacteria on your pores like Carol did is dumb and could act to spread infection the way a bite does, especially on a small paper cut you might not realize you have.

 

[Revolver]

Yeah, wouldn't have made sense to try and get a car. Though it could have made sense to prepare and get a car key before escaping

That plan didn't seem to be thought out very well. I wonder how Carol got taken and Daryl got away? I get they'd probably want Carol because she fits the "weak" profile they seem to have going.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I assume this is sarcasm? Sometimes hard to tell.

The doctor seems like an interesting character, but unfortunately the episode revolved around Beth who is one of the weakest / less interesting characters.

Not sarcastic. Guess it's just different strokes, this was the best episode this season so far to me.

 

[Ties]

Yeah, wouldn't have made sense to try and get a car. Though it could have made sense to prepare and get a car key before escaping

did they even know where the car keys were hidden tho

 

[Lothar]

Hm, it seemed from the very beginning that they weren't equals. Beth is locked in a hospital room alone, then immediately told by the cop that she owes them.

Are you talking about Beth and Dawn? I was talking about Dawn and the doctor. I didn't know Dawn was above the doctor until the end of the episode.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Are you talking about Beth and Dawn? I was talking about Dawn and the doctor. I didn't know Dawn was above the doctor until the end of the episode.

The Doctor actually says something along the lines of "Dawn doesn't want us to waste supplies and resources on lost causes" right after he unplugs the comatose man. That's supposed to be what informs that Dawn is in charge.

 

[someday]

Are you talking about Beth and Dawn? I was talking about Dawn and the doctor. I didn't know Dawn was above the doctor until the end of the episode.

I see. I thought you were talking Beth and Dawn.

 

[Sibylus]

The Doctor actually says something along the lines of "Dawn doesn't want us to waste supplies and resources on lost causes" right after he unplugs the comatose man. That's supposed to be what informs that Dawn is in charge.

Gorman also alludes to her being in charge after he did his gross thing with the lollipop.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Fuck, I just got spoiled about something that happens in the mid season finale via the shitty TV By the Numbers comment section. As if you needed another reason to avoid that cesspool, here it is.

:/

 

[Cornballer]

Fuck, I just got spoiled about something that happens in the mid season finale via the shitty TV By the Numbers comment section. As if you needed another reason to avoid that cesspool, here it is.

:/

Oh, that's a bummer. Be careful out there, everyone.

 

[FartOfWar]

Not my favorite episode but at least we see what happened to Beth. I guess we'll get another Woodbury situation where the gang goes in to save their own from yet another twisted survivor community or better yet Carol goes beast mode again and shuts that noise down from the inside. The worst thing that annoyed me was when Beth and Everybody Hates Chris were running away they just ran past a line of cars without even trying to use one to escape. It reminded me of that Geico horror movie commercial where everyone hides behind the wall of chainsaws instead of getting into the running car.

Why haven't the lollicops at least secured their lot? They in the habit of fighting walkers to get to their cars every single time? How are the lollicops getting down from the fifth floor? Why didn't Beth and Chris take that route? Why not take the stairs instead of the videogame cutscene route specifically designed to dump Chris into a charnel pit after failing the QTE? Why did Lollicop throw his neck into the walker's mouth after Beth bopped him with, what was it, a glass?

 

[Chopper]

Fuck, I just got spoiled about something that happens in the mid season finale via the shitty TV By the Numbers comment section. As if you needed another reason to avoid that cesspool, here it is.

:/

How does that happen? What is that website?

One thing I didn't understand was what the key that Beth stole from the office was for? I assumed it was for the cops' special exit, but then they just went down the elevator shaft.

 

[Dysun]

Not the greatest episode, but it had its moments. A bit boring overall

 

[Hylian7]

I hope they wrap this thing up next episode, I don't want another fucking governor.

 

[RadioHeadAche]

Based on the preview for next week's episode,

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get closure on the hospital story. It seems that will be wrapped up later.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Why did Lollicop throw his neck into the walker's mouth after Beth bopped him with, what was it, a glass?

Actors are supposed to act like break away glass is real glass. Also glass fucking hurts, whether it breaks or not.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They need something "explosive" for the midseason finale so I'm guessing the conclusion to the hospital arc and something else. Then for the second half of the season we begin the next big leg of the story.

Or it ends next episode, you know, whatever I really hope Rick gets to the hospital before this arc is over just so he can mess everyone up.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Why haven't the lollicops at least secured their lot? They in the habit of fighting walkers to get to their cars every single time? How are the lollicops getting down from the fifth floor? Why didn't Beth and Chris take that route? Why not take the stairs instead of the videogame cutscene route specifically designed to dump Chris into a charnel pit after failing the QTE? Why did Lollicop throw his neck into the walker's mouth after Beth bopped him with, what was it, a glass?

These are all excellent questions. I mean, we see people brought in on stretchers ... but they go down the pit of doom? The entire lower floor seemed pretty 'non reinforced' if that guy could slip through a gate like that when they park their cars there.

I won't call it the worst episode (I honestly hated the farm more than the last season of Lost) but it just seemed like writer's strike stuff. Or maybe they do clear each time and kept the walkers there to keep others from escaping, since Super Cops with harems seem to be pretty good at going WAY out into the wild and securing hotties and cripples for their jobs.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Why haven't the lollicops at least secured their lot? They in the habit of fighting walkers to get to their cars every single time? How are the lollicops getting down from the fifth floor? Why didn't Beth and Chris take that route? Why not take the stairs instead of the videogame cutscene route specifically designed to dump Chris into a charnel pit after failing the QTE? Why did Lollicop throw his neck into the walker's mouth after Beth bopped him with, what was it, a glass?

makes sense that the main entrance the coppers use would be guarded. It's literally the entrance to the building. And they obviously seem like a pretty organized lot. Not that far of a leap to make. Some of you killin me with your overthought questions.

As for the walkers on the lot, maybe they keep them there to keep intruders out.

 

[Fuu]

I thought it was fairly obvious that any stairs and exits they normally use would be guarded by other cops.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Also this episode reminded me that Andrea encouraged a suicidal Beth to slit her wrists and then was real proud of herself when she found out that Beth didn't go through with it because it was, like, all part of her fucked up plan to push people over the edge. God I'm so glad Andrea is dead.

 

[Sibylus]

makes sense that the main entrance the coppers use would be guarded. It's literally the entrance to the building. And they obviously seem like a pretty organized lot. Not that far of a leap to make. Some of you killin me with your overthought questions.

As for the walkers on the lot, maybe they keep them there to keep intruders out.

I thought it was fairly obvious that any stairs and exits they normally use would be guarded by other cops.

Additionally, someone (I believe it was Noah) explicitly said the stairwells were secured while talking about the elevator dump chute.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I thought it was fairly obvious that any stairs and exits they normally use would be guarded by other cops.

Wasn't obvious to me. I thought it was a very small band of people, not enough to warrant a full hospital detail on each floor/exit or something.

Honestly, when they started climbing down I figured they'd get in on one of the lower floors and find a way out.