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$10.10 Minimum Wage Could Lift About 5 Million Out Of Poverty

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Mael

Member
It is easier and less heart breaking to blame others than ourselves for our shortcomings, we can all use these single mother examples but in the end the blame is mostly on ourselves as individuals for the circumstances in which we remain in. We can go for hours talking about whether it is ethically right to have children when you are not in a good economic situation but in the end we are not owed nothing except a chance to make more of ourselves, if we put ourselves in a bad situation than we only have ourselves to blame.

We can do away with sob stories and anecdotal evidence and just use the statistics we have to choose what's better to better the situation of the poor population base.
I know it's a bit cold and heartless but there's really no point in using demagogic sob stories about people being poor because it's their fault or not.
Either way they're poor and that doesn't help them in any way....that is unless you only want to help only one kind of people...
 
If I'm a McDonald's franchisee and I pay minimum wage, I'm employing people who tend to be white, under 25, and do not rely on the income to live. Why should I have to pay some middle class white kid $10 an hour? All raising the minimum wage will do is make it harder for young people to get employed and gain experience so they do not continue to make a minimum wage throughout their life. It's another transfer of wealth from the young to the old.

Are you FUCKING kidding me?

Do you not realize that at one point minimum wage was for a long period time, LESS than $1?!

"What? I barely make ends meet! Why should I pay this boy who works in my factory 1 measly dollar?! I'll go bankrupt!"

By your logic we should never raise the minimum wage ever because, boo hoo, poor business owner will have to pay his employee a goddamn livable wage.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
You're correct. We do have a lot of people that earn a minimum wage and are still poor. But, raising the minimum wage won't solve this problem. I think the problem tends to be more social and the data seems to back that up. If you're poor and don't want your kids to be poor? Tell them to graduate from high school, get married before having any kids, and stay married once you have kids. We have a system that raises us to be consumers and to producers. We have millions of jobs that are unfilled because they require a skilled trade but we got rid of vocational programs in high school because a bunch of rich white people don't like skilled labor.

But...no the minimum wage is the issue. It's not and we should stop being distracted by it.
Hey, wanna talk working wages and benefits in general? Awesome.

You're quite right in wanting to look elsewhere, as minimum wage is pretty much the only thing we have to go on with unions in shambles.
 
If we raise the minimum wage, where does the money to pay the employees come from?

Profits, consumers. For the consumers, it would be a negligible rise in prices.

There are more social issues that are related to being poor and the minimum wage isn't one of them. Having children out of wedlock means you're far more likely to be poor. Being raised without both parents means you're more likely of being poor and if you're a black male, going to jail and not even graduating form high school. The minimum wage is a canard of the income inequality.

I agree that there are other factors for income inequality, but raising the minimum would greatly help those who are struggling to make ends meet.

It is easier and less heart breaking to blame others than ourselves for our shortcomings, we can all use these single mother examples but in the end the blame is mostly on ourselves as individuals for the circumstances in which we remain in. We can go for hours talking about whether it is ethically right to have children when you are not in a good economic situation but in the end we are not owed nothing except a chance to make more of ourselves, if we put ourselves in a bad situation than we only have ourselves to blame.
Most of the poor in this country are children. Are you blaming them for their situation?

If I'm a McDonald's franchisee and I pay minimum wage, I'm employing people who tend to be white, under 25, and do not rely on the income to live. Why should I have to pay some middle class white kid $10 an hour? All raising the minimum wage will do is make it harder for young people to get employed and gain experience so they do not continue to make a minimum wage throughout their life. It's another transfer of wealth from the young to the old.
Why would it make it harder for young people to get employed if the wage was $10?
 

Dai Kaiju

Member
Haha yeah right. Companies that thrive off underpaying their employees would just respond with massive cuts in hours and layoffs. This would end up doing more harm than good.
 

Gannd

Banned
Are you FUCKING kidding me?

Do you not realize that at one point minimum wage was for a long period time, LESS than $1?!

"What? I barely make ends meet! Why should I pay this boy who works in my factory 1 measly dollar?! I'll go bankrupt!"

By your logic we should never raise the minimum wage ever because, boo hoo, poor business owner will have to pay his employee a goddamn livable wage.

We have a labor market. You continue to ignore facts in order to make an argument...well I'm not sure what argument you're making other than you don't like business owners.


You're not also reading the argument I'm making. The minimum wage being raised won't impact the problems you all seem to say you care about.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Do people think the minimum wage was always $7? I would love to hear precisely just what they think happened when it was raised in the past and how people would be managing if it was still, say $3
 

Jado

Banned
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm#2


The minimum wage isn't earned primarily by people who need it to survive.

I don''t think you understand what those figures really signify and yet you keep posting them. That your average minimum wage job now goes to the lowliest, unskilled teen is actually a big problem, when it was once something an adult could take on to support effectively support himself.

Employers generally know that most working adults won't accept rock-bottom minimum wage, so they pay a few dollars more on top of that, which is effectively "below minimum wage" adjusted for inflation, and still not enough to get many of these people out of a cycle of poverty and misery. Your "minimum wage is just for teens buying junk" rhetoric doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
 
Why would it make it harder for young people to get employed if the wage was $10?

The key benefit to the young is that, whilst they are inexperienced, they are typically cheap - that's why they tend to do unskilled jobs or the most junior positions in skilled areas. As they get older, gain experience and skills, they get paid more.

If you force companies to pay more for the same quality of labour, the benefits to hiring these younger people goes down. Someone else has mentioned it, but if you have a job opening that pays $8 an hour, and you have one potential employee expecting $8/hr and another, slightly better and more experienced candidate that expects $10 an hour, you have to decide - is that extra experience worth the extra cost? If it's an unskilled job, you'll possibly decide that it is not. If the minimum wage goes up to $10 an hour, then of course you'll take candidate number two - if you're paying them the same anyway, you'll always go for the better candidate. The problem here is that the young - those who have just graduated school or college and who have little experience - then find themselves in a situation where they are potential priced out of the market; Not because their labour is worthless, but because there are other, more experienced candidates available at the same price.

As a real life example, the UK didn't have a minimum wage before 1997. It was introduced and employment continued to rise (we were in the middle of a large boom, of course) for all demographics - except the young. For them, it more or less stayed stagnant - they were the only ones whose employment prospects didn't really improve in the boom. From 2005, in fact, they started to get worse.

This is the case for anyone who's unskilled, but it affects the young the most because they are the most likely to be unskilled and inexperienced.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Guys like King Cobra just don't get it. I grew up lower middle class (at best), went to college, now make a very very good salary and live in a much nicer neighborhood than I ever lived in when I was young. So from one POV you could say I "pulled myself up" and yes I did work very hard and still do. But I also got lucky - I'm good at stuff that tends to pay well in this economy, I graduated during a time of decent job opportunities, I found myself in a stable company, etc. As someone up thread said, we're not all closed systems. Just one or two different breaks here or there and I would be in a very different situation. I know plenty of people who work very hard too and can't get out of the death spiral that is poverty or struggling. Being poor is self-perpetuating.

You're not also reading the argument I'm making. The minimum wage being raised won't impact the problems you all seem to say you care about.

Actually it would, because studies have shown that people making minimum wage tend not to be young middle class white kids. Hell they even said that in the article the OP referenced.
 

Gannd

Banned
I don''t think you understand what those figures really signify and yet you keep posting them. That your average minimum wage job now goes to the lowliest, unskilled teen is actually a big problem, when it was once something an adult could take on to support effectively support himself.

Employers generally know that most working adults won't accept rock-bottom minimum wage, so they pay they pay a few dollars more on top of that, which is effectively "below minimum wage" adjusted for inflation, still not enough to get many of these people out of a cycle of poverty and misery. Your "minimum wage is just for teens buying junk" rhetoric doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Except the data says it does. A job at McDonalds does teach useful skills to the young: work ethic which is being on time, how to work, how to act at work. These are all useful skills. If you want training so people can earn money you should be pissed that we tossed vocational programs from high schools in the 70's because a bunch of rich white fuckers think those jobs are beneath us. There are millions of jobs unfilled that pay very good wages and carry benefits that are unfilled because we do not have the labor to fill them.

If you want to break the cycle of poverty you should be worried about out of wedlock births and divorce. Those things impact your chances of poverty more than raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour will.
 
It's nice that some people think a $10 minimum wage is a great victory for poor, lazy people. Such a thing would really hurt Merril Lynch's bottom line I guess.

Or maybe society just thinks that if you're working, no matter how unskilled or menial that job may be to some white collar worker, that we want/expect the employer to offer you enough to actually pay rent and buy food.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
As a real life example, the UK didn't have a minimum wage before 1997. It was introduced and employment continued to rise (we were in the middle of a large boom, of course) for all demographics - except the young. For them, it more or less stayed stagnant - they were the only ones whose employment prospects didn't really improve in the boom. From 2005, in fact, they started to get worse.

This is the case for anyone who's unskilled, but it affects the young the most because they are the most likely to be unskilled and inexperienced.

The Economist ran an article on this not too long ago. Their takeaway was that minimum wage increases tend to be good for the economy and even for the young provided they aren't too high - around 50% of the median wage of the country and you start to see the effects you describe. Even $10 an hour is not close to that.

It's worth noting that teenage employment is very low in this country relative to the past, even with our crappy minimum wage.
 
These threads are amazing. The fucking OP is about a study, and references other studies, showing the benefits of raising the minimum wage. Most economics think this would, at worst, only help people a little bit, while many think it would be a pretty substantial help to the economy, as the economists in the OP believe.

Moreover, history tells us that the minimum wage has historically been much higher than it is today, back when income inequality was drastically lower and the employment situation was far better. The economy did not crash when the minimum wage was at an adjusted $22 per hour, so history suggests that the sky will not come anywhere close to falling if it is raised slightly to $10 per hour.

And yet, everyone seems to have an opinion based on shitty anecdotal experience or ridiculous reasoning to argue against the minimum wage. If anything, this thread shows how fucking amazing businesses are at getting people to buy into their bullshit arguments. And how willingly people follow arguments that validate their own shitty, selfish values, regardless of the veracity of those arguments.

Haha yeah right. Companies that thrive off underpaying their employees would just respond with massive cuts in hours and layoffs. This would end up doing more harm than good.

Truly amazing.
 
The minimum wage was actually at $10 in today's dollars before, but raises in the minimum wage did not keep up with inflation and so now our minimum wage is considerably less than that.
A big part of why I hope min wage is at least tied to inflation in some way if Obama intends to tackle it.
 

Gannd

Banned
These threads are amazing. The fucking OP is about a study, and references other studies, showing the benefits of raising the minimum wage. Most economics think this would, at worst, only help people a little bit, while many think it would be a pretty substantial help to the economy, as the economists in the OP believe.

Moreover, history tells us that the minimum wage has historically been much higher than it is today, back when income inequality was drastically lower and the employment situation was far better. The economy did not crash when the minimum wage was at an adjusted $22 per hour, so history suggests that the sky will not come anywhere close to falling if it is raised slightly to $10 per hour.

And yet, everyone seems to have an opinion based on shitty anecdotal experience or ridiculous reasoning to argue against the minimum wage. If anything, this thread shows how fucking amazing businesses are at getting people to buy into their bullshit arguments. And how willingly people follow arguments that validate their own shitty, selfish values, regardless of the veracity of those arguments.



Truly amazing.

It is truly amazing. The problem with your minimum wage adjusted would be worth X is if you go back and study who earned the minimum wage back in those times and what % of the population is that you cannot make that transition to days times. This is another reason why social studies isn't a science.
 

Hubb

Member
They reference a University study and the Federal Reserve Bank. Attack the data and the argument not the source.

The source twists numbers to say what they want them to say as they have done in past "campaigns" of theirs. It also helps that the two sources they list cannot be found anymore. Have you actually looked in to what they are saying or do you just take it at face value?

BTW anyone can and usually does twist numbers to make them say what they want them to say. I am more interested in where they get their money from and what they have done in the past. It doesn't surprise me at all that they wrote this article.
 

obin_gam

Member
These threads are amazing. The fucking OP is about a study, and references other studies, showing the benefits of raising the minimum wage. Most economics think this would, at worst, only help people a little bit, while many think it would be a pretty substantial help to the economy, as the economists in the OP believe.

Moreover, history tells us that the minimum wage has historically been much higher than it is today, back when income inequality was drastically lower and the employment situation was far better. The economy did not crash when the minimum wage was at an adjusted $22 per hour, so history suggests that the sky will not come anywhere close to falling if it is raised slightly to $10 per hour.

And yet, everyone seems to have an opinion based on shitty anecdotal experience or ridiculous reasoning to argue against the minimum wage. If anything, this thread shows how fucking amazing businesses are at getting people to buy into their bullshit arguments. And how willingly people follow arguments that validate their own shitty, selfish values, regardless of the veracity of those arguments.



Truly amazing.

This is why I love US-economy-discussions. Coming from a social-democracy like Sweden, it always baffles me how hardcore-capitalistic the default mind set seems to be in the US.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
This is another reason why social studies isn't a science.
Empirical investigation being hampered primarily by ethics doesn't earn a field of study ridicule. We could set controls, but then we'd be monsters for doing so. All we have to go on is observation.
 
The Economist ran an article on this not too long ago. Their takeaway was that minimum wage increases tend to be good for the economy and even for the young provided they aren't too high - around 50% of the median wage of the country and you start to see the effects you describe. Even $10 an hour is not close to that.

It's worth noting that teenage employment is very low in this country relative to the past, even with our crappy minimum wage.

I saw one that said it was 45% but yeah - the problem is that these need to be adjusted per metric. Ie, you need different minimum wages for different parts of the country, different ages etc. I daresay you're right about that figure for $10 but... is that the case everywhere? In places like New York in San Francisco and Washington DC the median wage will be much higher than in Bumfuck, Nowhere. You get similar problems (here in the UK, at least) with public sector jobs - the government doesn't want to regionally vary the wage for the same job as it might enhance regional discrepancies, but at the same time it means that in areas where the median salary is lower, public sector jobs become like gold dust, which isn't good for the local economy as many of the most skilled end up working for the local government, leaving the private sector - which in theory has to pay for it all - to suffer. Meanwhile, the public servants in London end up getting the sticky end of the wicket (British for "shit end of the deal") because their pay is limited despite living in a much more expensive place. You have the same thing for minimum wages which is why, from my vague understanding of the US legislative process, it might be best to leave it up to states or even devolve it down further?
 
Still more bs bootstrap rhetoric. You are the exception, not the norm, and once again people underestimate or don't take into account how much luck plays into it.

Luck, really? Are you going to start taking into account what stars we were born under as well now?

Guys like King Cobra just don't get it. I grew up lower middle class (at best), went to college, now make a very very good salary and live in a much nicer neighborhood than I ever lived in when I was young. So from one POV you could say I "pulled myself up" and yes I did work very hard and still do. But I also got lucky - I'm good at stuff that tends to pay well in this economy, I graduated during a time of decent job opportunities, I found myself in a stable company, etc. As someone up thread said, we're not all closed systems. Just one or two different breaks here or there and I would be in a very different situation. I know plenty of people who work very hard too and can't get out of the death spiral that is poverty or struggling. Being poor is self-perpetuating.
Oh I get it trust me, I was born in the bottom tier in a third world country, trust me if anyone would appreciate this rally behind those with lower income it should be me. But I have experienced firsthand that my astrology sign or my “luck” did nothing for me, I can assure you hunger and humiliation helped me climb the ladder way more than luck ever could.
 
It is truly amazing. The problem with your minimum wage adjusted would be worth X is if you go back and study who earned the minimum wage back in those times and what % of the population is that you cannot make that transition to days times. This is another reason why social studies isn't a science.

No one's saying it's a science, and no one is suggesting raising it to $22 per hour. You are arguing against a strawman.

This is about raising it to $10 per hour. Which is extremely historically low, but which the vast majority of economists believe would help the economy.
 
Oh I get it trust me, I was born in at the bottom tier in a third world country, trust me if anyone would appreciate this rally behind those with lower income it should be me. But I have experienced firsthand that my astrology sign or my “luck” did nothing for me, I can assure you hunger and humiliation helped me climb the ladder way more than luck ever could.

Tell us your rise to prominence
 

Downhome

Member
So the cost of living goes up when the minimum wage doesn't go up...and the cost of living goes up when the minimum wage does go up...is there any solution or is everyone just fucked?

I wouldn't say that, things can change and can improve. With that said however, there will always be poor, there will always be poverty, and that will never change, ever. It has been like that from the start and it will forever and always be the case. There is no magical fix for it, as much as we all would like for there to be. Now we can take steps to decrease the numbers. For some people all they needs it just a tiny bit of help, something to go their way for once, and it will raise them up.

For others however, have it be for a variety of reasons, they will never get past that point. Maybe just where they live, education, and for a lot of people it's just a flat out lack of motivation and laziness with maybe a bit of feeling content right where they are mixed in as well. It may sound harsh, but some people really truly are too lazy to do anything to get past a certain point. For those, nothing will ever be done, nor should anything change for them if they don't care enough to do anything at all in the first place.
 

Koppai

Member
I just got a raise to $13, but Obamacare shit made my healthcare cost jump from $73.26 a paycheck to $109.69 a paycheck. So the raise from $12 to $13 an hour was basically eaten by the healthcare, thanks Obama!

$10.10 an hour isn't going to get people out of poverty since your healthcare cost would be ridiculous.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Oh I get it trust me, I was born in at the bottom tier in a third world country, trust me if anyone would appreciate this rally behind those with lower income it should be me. But I have experienced firsthand that my astrology sign or my “luck” did nothing for me, I can assure you hunger and humiliation helped me climb the ladder way more than luck ever could.
It's a shame that other people in your situation were not sufficiently hungry or humiliated enough to succeed.
 

KingGondo

Banned
I think the problem tends to be more social and the data seems to back that up. If you're poor and don't want your kids to be poor? Tell them to graduate from high school, get married before having any kids, and stay married once you have kids.
This kind of logic is the reason my state pours millions into an idiotic program called The Oklahoma Marriage Initiative, because statistics show that married couples have more prosperous, healthier lives.

Could it be that people with more money tend to stay married in the first place, and not that the institution of marriage somehow magically transforms people into more responsible, prosperous citizens? I think so.

I suspect that the divorce rate, childbirth rate, and graduation rate would all go up if we simply force employers to pay their workers a livable wage.
 
Empirical investigation being hampered primarily by ethics doesn't earn a field of study ridicule. We could set controls, but then we'd be monsters for doing so. All we have to go on is observation.

That's not really what he was saying, I think - I believe his point was that a lot of the jobs that now earn minimum wage were ones that didn't exist in anywhere near the same number as they do today, and that back then the recipients of those wages were more highly skilled workers (who, today, earn far more than the minimum wage). As such, the idea that it was OK then so it'll be OK now isn't really applicable. Hell, maybe it WOULD be OK today, but the fact that it used to be $22 dollars and everything was fine isn't evidence of that, because the labour market has changed so much in that time.
 

Gannd

Banned
The source twists numbers to say what they want them to say as they have done in past "campaigns" of theirs. It also helps that the two sources they list cannot be found anymore. Have you actually looked in to what they are saying or do you just take it at face value?

BTW anyone can and usually does twist numbers to make them say what they want them to say. I am more interested in where they get their money from and what they have done in the past. It doesn't surprise me at all that they wrote this article.


I absolutely have looked into it. I originally learned about this when I was in business school getting my MSPA and had to take some economics courses about one of the downsides of raising the minimum wage. I also have read about it in the WSJ and hear about it from many of my clients who are businesses owners. I do a lot of accounting work for franchisees and I go through their books. I know what their margins are and what their wages are. I also pointed to a government source showing who earns the minimum wage. Look at what has happened with Obama care and small businesses. We see them cutting hours and number of full time employees to avoid the cost. If you raise the minimum wage to a "living wage" (whatever that means because a living wage in Chicago is different than Green Bay) you'll see the something. Think about it, intuitively, if you were a business owner and had a significant rise in your wage expense you're going to change your hiring practices. Who would you hire a kid with no experience or someone older with more experience? In a tightening labor market, experience matters.
 

dysonEA

Member
If minimum wage goes up, the cost of living will rise. Companies will want to make the same profit so they'll raise the price of goods. What sucks is, those of us who already make more than minimum wage will have to pay more for everything without seeing a pay increase. I'm already tightening my belt, this would be disasterous.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
That's not really what he was saying, I think - I believe his point was that a lot of the jobs that now earn minimum wage were ones that didn't exist in anywhere near the same number as they do today, and that back then the recipients of those wages were more highly skilled workers (who, today, earn far more than the minimum wage). As such, the idea that it was OK then so it'll be OK now isn't really applicable. Hell, maybe it WOULD be OK today, but the fact that it used to be $22 dollars and everything was fine isn't evidence of that, because the labour market has changed so much in that time.
Oh, I just meant that "social studies aren't science" line that has become popular recently.
 
Luck, really? Are you going to start taking into account what stars we were born under as well now?


Oh I get it trust me, I was born in the bottom tier in a third world country, trust me if anyone would appreciate this rally behind those with lower income it should be me. But I have experienced firsthand that my astrology sign or my “luck” did nothing for me, I can assure you hunger and humiliation helped me climb the ladder way more than luck ever could.
Unless you somehow figured out what causation truly is and how it works....rofl no.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Yep, we're long overdue for a notable minimum wage increase. The current minimum wage is laughable.

Make it completely universal (no exemptions for certain service industry jobs) too. If I can pay a little more money to get tons of people out of poverty.. that'd be awesome.
 
As an American, I think people who are asking for minimum wage to be increased are just crazy. We're such a nanny state of a country now it's pathetic. What happened to the days of working for $4 an hour and working your way to 6 digit salary? $7.25 is plenty of money for anyone as long as they don't indulge in luxurious items like refrigerators, heating, and electricity. If they're really struggling then they're not working hard enough simple as that. Honestly we need to decrease minimum wage to like $4.25; and get rid of medicaid, medicare and everything else nanny. If you work hard you'll be successful; can't stand people crying about working 60-70hrs a week it's just crazy talk; working that long is how you know you're working hard and you're on the path to success. Hell, working 70hrs a week IS AMERICUH literally! This thread in addition to the healthcare and vacation threads just scream entitlement. The people asking for all this social-commie stuff probably live with their parents anyway. Buy some all American bootstraps and pull yourselves up America. We should have voted for Santorum for; I'm hella tired of giving free stuff to black people.

It's Americuh, not Canaduh!
 
2870937-minimum_wage_frsqr.jpg
 

Gannd

Banned
No one's saying it's a science, and no one is suggesting raising it to $22 per hour. You are arguing against a strawman.

This is about raising it to $10 per hour. Which is extremely historically low, but which the vast majority of economists believe would help the economy.

Someone is saying that and I responded to him.

I'm not saying raising the minimum wage is BAD HORROR. I'm saying if you're trying to fight poverty, the minimum wage isn't the best way to do so. But, GAF orthodoxy, wants to make this into the battle of bunker hill when it's not. I think one of the reasons why there are so many proponents for the hiking of the minimum wage is that based on the demographics of this forum that we have a lot of posters that this will directly benefit.

Now, I have to get back to work so I'm not bouncing from this forum to avoid discussion it's just a work day. If I have time I'll check in later today.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Luck, really? Are you going to start taking into account what stars we were born under as well now?


Oh I get it trust me, I was born in the bottom tier in a third world country, trust me if anyone would appreciate this rally behind those with lower income it should be me. But I have experienced firsthand that my astrology sign or my “luck” did nothing for me, I can assure you hunger and humiliation helped me climb the ladder way more than luck ever could.

So why do you think our wealth inequality has spiked so heavily in recent decades? Did hundreds of millions of people spontaneously get lazier? Some fundamental change in human nature?
 
If minimum wage goes up, the cost of living will rise. Companies will want to make the same profit so they'll raise the price of goods. What sucks is, those of us who already make more than minimum wage will have to pay more for everything without seeing a pay increase. I'm already tightening my belt, this would be disasterous.

Cost of living already rises without an increase in minimum wage. Plus, if companies wanted to pass on the cost of increasing their wages, the consumer will only have to pay just a few more dollars every year.
 
Oh I get it trust me, I was born in at the bottom tier in a third world country, trust me if anyone would appreciate this rally behind those with lower income it should be me. But I have experienced firsthand that my astrology sign or my “luck” did nothing for me, I can assure you hunger and humiliation helped me climb the ladder way more than luck ever could.

Your shitty opinions are more abhorrent than the people born into rich families who believe in bootstraps nonsense. At least those guys don't know any better. I cannot stand people who were lucky/smart/risky enough to get out of poverty, who then wear it as a badge of pride and pretend that anyone could have done it. The worst fucking kind of people.

Before you ask, I came from a poor as shit immigrant family, and am now a lawyer.

Someone is saying that and I responded to him.

I'm not saying raising the minimum wage is BAD HORROR. I'm saying if you're trying to fight poverty, the minimum wage isn't the best way to do so. But, GAF orthodoxy, wants to make this into the battle of bunker hill when it's not. I think one of the reasons why there are so many proponents for the hiking of the minimum wage is that based on the demographics of this forum that we have a lot of posters that this will directly benefit.

Now, I have to get back to work so I'm not bouncing from this forum to avoid discussion it's just a work day. If I have time I'll check in later today.

I agree with everything you said here. The way I see it, even if it's not the best way or most efficient way to reduce poverty, why the hell not do it anyway? Most experts agree it would at least help somewhat.

If minimum wage goes up, the cost of living will rise. Companies will want to make the same profit so they'll raise the price of goods. What sucks is, those of us who already make more than minimum wage will have to pay more for everything without seeing a pay increase. I'm already tightening my belt, this would be disasterous.

Amazing post.
 
If minimum wage goes up, the cost of living will rise. Companies will want to make the same profit so they'll raise the price of goods. What sucks is, those of us who already make more than minimum wage will have to pay more for everything without seeing a pay increase. I'm already tightening my belt, this would be disasterous.

Prices of goods will ALWAYS increase. If they didn't, something would be very, VERY wrong in the economy.

Compare what a dollar buys you today what it did in the 50s.
 
You mean the cost of everything? People don't understand that when wages go higher, things get more expensive.

If that's the case, raising the minimum wage makes all the more sense.

Show of hands, who in the thread thinks "cost of everything" stayed stagnant for the amount of time the minimum wage stayed $7.25?

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Since 2009, inflation increased 8.6%, the year the minimum wage went up to $7.25. I think we may want to reevaluate our current stances on this. At the very least, if we thing raising the minimum wage will increase the cost of everything, when the cost of everything increases, the minimum wage should also increase. Simple logic yeah?
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah, it would definitely suck if as an effect of minimum wage increases other, higher paying jobs ended up paying more for their lives because their employers didn't feel like increasing their wages as well.

If only there was some, I dunno, some way in which the labor could be organized so they could say things like "no, we're worth more then two dollars above the new minimum wage". Some kind of...some kind of group, like a coming together thing, like...
 

Hubb

Member
I absolutely have looked into it. I originally learned about this when I was in business school getting my MSPA and had to take some economics courses about one of the downsides of raising the minimum wage.....

I'm glad you've looked into it. The thing is I find it hard to believe anything you say. Earlier in this thread you stated that only 1.6 million of the population makes minimum wage in 2012. However if you look at the link you listed they actually have it 3.6 million who make minimum wage OR less. That doesn't even take into account people who make 7.50 an hour just so the employer can say they don't pay minimum wage.

Personally I am not for a federal minimum wage increase, instead I think it should be left to the states to handle. I do agree that 10 dollars in NY is different then 10 dollars somewhere else in the country.

All that being said, if I have a business that needs X amount of employees, even if they make me pay them 1 dollar an hour more, I still need X amount of employees to run my business.
 
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