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$10.10 Minimum Wage Could Lift About 5 Million Out Of Poverty
- Thread starter Protein
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heliosRAzi
Banned
Hey man, that's dangerous talk. Empowering the worker? Sounds like some kind of Communist!
diffusionx
Gold Member
You really don't think luck plays a factor? Studies have shown that people who graduate school during a recession make significantly less money for their ENTIRE life, even after controlling for different variables. So, basically, these people end up worse off solely because of the year they were born. I guess they could have just chosen to be born earlier or later?
Good for you, I'm glad you made it out. But really, do you think that inflicting "hunger and humiliation" is the optimal policy for the US or another developed nation? You really think that would achieve your desired goals? Because that's not how it has worked historically, what it has led to is the elites' heads being separated from their bodies, usually in gruesome fashion.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Yes because every poor person from your third world country didn't obviously have your work ethic and/or wasn't nearly as hungry enough to climb the social ladder like you oh great one?
dysonEA
Member
Yes because each and every company has magic money machines to raise every employees pay.
Cymbal Head
Banned
For every hard worker who was able to overcome a hard financial circumstance, there's someone who worked equally hard just to stay where he was. Hard work is not a magic ticket to anything, no matter how big your bootstraps are.
Edit: Looks like I'm late to this conversation.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
Noble Neckbeard
Banned
I'm not sure there's anything that can be done, including raising the minimum wage, that would help those who are struggling the most in this country without monetary interests hijacking and exploiting it in some way. These entities have become quite skilled at using their money to get what they want out of most political situations.
I feel as though there would be both intended and unintended consequences to such a move, but the economic power in this country is weld by people who are interested in maintaining the status quo, not the inverse.
I feel as though there would be both intended and unintended consequences to such a move, but the economic power in this country is weld by people who are interested in maintaining the status quo, not the inverse.
You should probably also state that people should work smarter, not just harder, else you'll get the single moms who work 9-10 minimum wage jobs with 15 kids to feed arguments from people.
It's a combination of working harder and smarter to advance and achieving what you want. And for smarter that includes learning new skills and education. Not too many people can learn new skills and advance if the only jobs a person gets are minimum wage jobs.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Well, those magic money machines are usually their products or services.
King Cobra
Banned
Calm down there fella, don't get your jimmies in a bunch. And that's good that your family did what they did, just further proof that you shouldnt have to bottle feed people in order for them to succeed.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Of course they don't. But "can I afford to pay what my employees are asking for" needs to become an actual consideration again
Watch this be ignored by people who will complain about the costs to the consumer of paying a decent wage.
the 1.6 number is the people who earn a minimum wage. the 2 million is people who earn less than a minimum wage and those end to be in the hospitality business and with tips tend to earn more than the minimum wage and are harder to quantify because of the unknown factor that are tips. That is that. Since you don't believe anything I say I'll not engage you any further so we don't waste each others time.
Actually considering how inflation usually works, not raising employees mean that the company is improving its margin.
In some case it's totally justifiable but it's a bit silly to think Mc Donalds or Walmart doesn't have enough to raise their employees either...
Could you cite some support for that, because I've just gone through the data you linked and don't see that criteria.
And while they "tend" to be white (because, of course, everyone in America "tends" to be white, as whites account for more than 70% of the population) they do include a significant number of non-white employees, roughly on par with standard U.S. racial demographics.
No you should keep kicking them till they punch you in the face. America might be better than some places with opportunity, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it couldn't be better.
CyclopsRock
Member
I'm surprised by how many people here think that the minimum wage shouldn't be regionally altered.
I would definitely like to see the methodology they used to come up with the 10 cents a day figure. Do you have a link to the study?
dysonEA
Member
Which they have to raise the prices for to meet higher minimum wage requirements which means paying more. If they don't, they'll lose profit.
diffusionx
Gold Member
It's also worse than a lot of places, including those Nordic countries which do "bottle feed people", sometimes quite literally (they have very generous services for new mothers, if I recall correctly).
The US is really quite stratified and is rather poor for moving up in economic class, it's not what it used to be for sure. I'm saying that it is time to adopt the Nordic model but we have this fantasy of the US being the "land of opportunity" which is quite outdated.
For ease of my time does AEI work or does that source not count? If you're okay with waiting until this evening when I'm home I can get you some some sources other than AEI, it's just an easy source that I have access to now.
Yes, all the ones who work hard get rich, and the rest never tried anyway. :/
The myth of self sufficiency is alive and well, and you are providing near textbook examples of the fundamental attribution error and actor/observer bias.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yes, but the increases on prices don't match the increases on wages because they're distributing the cost of the wages across more people then they have employees.
heliosRAzi
Banned
King Cobra
Banned
There is no doubt about that, but it certainly isn't a place where you are doomed to forever live in the circumstances you were born in which is what some people here are trying to imply.
This made me laugh quite hard.
Thanks. I'm going to take a look at it.
I'd guess I'm fine with any reasonable source, but I'm also not in a hurry. Just didn't see any data on the page you linked that discussed how much people needed the money they were making. There was some data about married or non-married, but it didn't seem to include who was or wasn't living with their parents.
Well as a whole, the rise in spending power for the lower income would mean more products and services being purchased ... so the bottom line in profits may be fine.
The problem is that's in aggregate. Whether company A actually sees it is entirely dependant on what products and services they offer.
That's fine, you can prove my point and continue to twist my words. Nothing you have posted proves your point. You post a blog from about as biased a website/think thank as possible with 2 sources that they don't even link to anymore. Everything else is anecdotal, or a government site that doesn't prove raising the minimum wage a bit would cause a huge unemployment problem. I also take issue with people between the ages of 16-25 not needed the money to survive.
King Cobra
Banned
Yeah, this is basically code for the "I don't want to / don't have what it takes to, bust my ass to get ahead in life" ideology.
I bet if you thought real hard about it you'd realize why you're wrong. Maybe not. Life experience is sometimes necessary.
Which child has a better chance of minimal interruption in their routine of doing their homework, participating in extra curriculars and learning how to live a healthy lifestyle?
The one with TWO people helping under the same roof?
Or the one with ONE person immediately available, and is then shuttled back and forth between households?
This shit isn't rocket science.
As a single dad, I know which situation my son would be better off under.
But you don't always control your circumstances.
layzie1989
Member
It's disgusting how much people can lack compassion and empathy for the poor and those not as fortunate as them. I honestly think that's what a lot of this comes down to. I don't think they'll ever be convinced.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Class war: the thread.
People have the right to work for a living wage just as much as they have the right to vote.
People have the right to work for a living wage just as much as they have the right to vote.
As a grown man, I've never met a mentally stable adult that wanted to get ahead and couldn't.
So I'm all for better community provided assistance for the mentally ill or incapable.
But if you're capable and still struggling? You're probably not really trying.
And to those that point to unmarried mothers with 3 kids struggling to get by - why do you think she felt comfortable enough to get in that situation? Becaus she knew shed get bailed out.
And between food stamps (which provide more food a month than I can afford) and unemployment and every other social service, you can get by pretty well without doing much of shit. I know several people that live this lifestyle. I work hard all day so they don't have to. You'd never guess that they're "poor". And you can't tell me it's not true because I KNOW these people.
So how hard do you have to work to get ahead in life?
Carnby
Member
Oh good, I'm glad you think any increase in my cost of living is negligible.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Good, your happiness is my concern.
Not true at all. Some people just get shit on. My dad did everything the "right" way, went to the military then college then attempted to work his way up from the bottom and hit a dead-end early on. The main reason for his financial success is due to hsi cousin getting him a job that didn't require any of the experience he spend close to a decade of his life getting. Sometime people just have shit luck.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
your post combined with your avatar lol
Carnby
Member
*woosh*
I never said that growing up in a married household isn't advantageous for most children. I wouldn't argue that at all. I'm simply saying that people in better financial situations also tend to have more stable life situations.
Gannd stated that the reasons for poverty are the societal factors such as lower marriage rates, higher birth rates, and lower graduation rates, and I'm arguing that we have increased prevalence of those societal problems because of poverty.
Gannd was advocating attempting to address the symptoms of poverty (high divorce rate, low graduation rate, high birth rate) instead of poverty itself. Exactly how, I'm not sure. Maybe he'd care to elaborate.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Ah yes, more bs rhetoric from anecdotal evidence that is used to make a blanket statement on everyone that is using some type of government assistance.
You might as well call out college students using Pell grants while you're at it. Afterall, they shouldn't be getting any type of financial aid and instead use the bootstrap method of having two jobs to pay for their tuition.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Just like how those studies about the impact on consumers went over yours.
Carnby
Member
Huffington Post: borderline banned site
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