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2011 Fall Anime Thread - Bad Shows & Self Hating Nerds
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MotionBlue
Member
Pun intended?
They can also represent a scalpal, consider he holds it like one, but I understand your position too. Either way, its gross and I feel bad for Yuri, which is the intention.
Krev said:
I've gone on record numerous times that I think
She'll die since she was first introduced. Ikuhara is an asshole like that. I do hope she survives, if any character has gone through hell, its been her.
The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.
If the writers wanted to imply that she was being given a penis, wouldn't it have been better to state that the father had some kind of medical background and was capable of such surgery, or at least show something to suggest that surgery was going on? There's also Momoka saying that Yuri was about to be killed. This makes sense if it's abuse that's going on, but not if the father's objective was to give his daughter a penis. Then there's that the whole penis theory came about because of people's interpretation of a line in episode 14, so it would have to be something persisting into the present. If this was a horrible thing done to her by her abusive father, as it was depicted in episode 15, wouldn't the rich, famous, adult Yuri have gotten it removed by now? Why would she want to keep it? Lastly, if the writers wanted us to get the impression that she had a penis, shouldn't they have included Shoma expressing shock at Yuri's appearance when he saw her nude?
â Narayan
Member
Krev said:
This is the same justification I'm finding in supporting her not having one. That line in episode 14 was certainly strange and I definitely had the same reaction as everyone else, but everything in episode 15 just doesn't allow it to add up.
MotionBlue
Member
Krev said:
The penis came from the fact that she declared she was going to take Ringos virginity, and she wasn't running around with a dildo or similar object. Also the fact that the injuries on her arm, leg and cheek- common areas that skin is taken for genital reassignment surgery. Plus the whole obsession with David and the statues changing from mostly female to mostly male.
And as I said earlier, Momoka changed her fate. So she would not have it now.
And as I said earlier, Momoka changed her fate. So she would not have it now.
Both theories work
(abuse/rape vs Surgery)
MotionBlue said:
But the constant hammering sound on the soundtrack implies penetration. It points towards a more direct reading of the chisel symbolism and away from reading it as a scalpel.
MotionBlue said:
If she doesn't have it now, then it would have nothing to do with taking Ringo's virginity in the present. Her line, 'women don't need men to feel pleasure' also points away from this 'futanari' interpretation.
MotionBlue
Member
Krev said:
Oh, hrm. Good point. Wasn't paying attention. You've changed my mind!
Crash Station
Member
Mirai Nikki 3
Damn, the amusement park was a lot more heartwarming than in the manga. Then all hell breaks loose, :lol
Glad I read the manga. Knowing the significance of what is in the room and all the foreshadowing involved makes this a great series to reread/watch.
Damn, the amusement park was a lot more heartwarming than in the manga. Then all hell breaks loose, :lol
Glad I read the manga. Knowing the significance of what is in the room and all the foreshadowing involved makes this a great series to reread/watch.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Kimi to Boku 4
The mixer in the beginning was hilarious. Yuki always cracks me up. Kanamecchi focused episode was great. Chizuru's addition to the cast has worked wonders.
The mixer in the beginning was hilarious. Yuki always cracks me up. Kanamecchi focused episode was great. Chizuru's addition to the cast has worked wonders.
Mawaru Penguindrum 15 Potential Spoilers Still Or Whatever:Krev said:
I am probably not the right person to say this, but you guys are imposing a lot of sex over something that never really hints at anything like that. Maybe I just missed something but there didn't really seem to be anything sexual about the deformation Yuri's father was doing.
Penguindrum 15
Really really cheap looking episode. Pretty disappointing actually.
That's really my only problem with this episode though.
Really really cheap looking episode. Pretty disappointing actually.
That's really my only problem with this episode though.
Looks like we're finally at a semi-complete picture for what's going on, really interested to see the endgame for all this.
Dance In My Blood said:
99% sure it was supposed to be ambiguous, just to mess with us
chickdigger802
Banned
gintama 231
ahhh good old dick jokes. Remind me of the good old shounen era.
ahhh good old dick jokes. Remind me of the good old shounen era.
Dance In My Blood said:
The word I used, 'penetration', can be interpreted in multiple ways in this context.
Nonetheless, I think hints at sexual abuse are definitely there. Yuri comes back from school (dressed in her uniform) and tells her father about Momoka, only for him to explain that she can't trust strangers, and pure, beautiful love only exists among family members. He says, 'come over here if you understand', and in the next shot, Yuri is suddenly naked as she walks towards him. Then comes the rhythmic chiseling sound effect.
Nonetheless, I think hints at sexual abuse are definitely there. Yuri comes back from school (dressed in her uniform) and tells her father about Momoka, only for him to explain that she can't trust strangers, and pure, beautiful love only exists among family members. He says, 'come over here if you understand', and in the next shot, Yuri is suddenly naked as she walks towards him. Then comes the rhythmic chiseling sound effect.
jman2050 said:
I'm pretty sure it was ambiguous to be (somewhat) tasteful, discrete, and to cut costs when dealing with a scene that would potentially be fairly gory. It is a fairly common device in storytelling to magnify violence by obscuring it, because people always tend to assume the worst. Which is well evidenced in this thread of course.
Master Milk
Member
Krev said:
My initial response to you was about you being flabbergasted because someone questions whether Yuri has a penis or not. To me that's an odd response because the show hints at it. It's an even odder response when you have an argument to shoot down her having a penis ready, because the only reason you'd have one ready is if you were anticipating someone thinking she might have a penis. And it's even odder still when by your own admission you at first thought she might have a penis. I don't understand how you could have once thought that, but be flabbergasted when someone who just watched it thinks that.
As far as Yuri actually having a penis goes, I don't have an argument to project. I've made it clear that I prefer Yuri with a penis, but that's it. The show threw some hints out that she might have one, and is still ambiguous on whether she has one or not.
As far as Yuri actually having a penis goes, I don't have an argument to project. I've made it clear that I prefer Yuri with a penis, but that's it. The show threw some hints out that she might have one, and is still ambiguous on whether she has one or not.
To chime in late on the Penguindrum,
Most of the penis thoughts (...) extends from the wordings in the prior episode. It was still a hard sale to a point (because her partner there seemed to appreciate her enough and Yuri still considered herself unloved for her body) but it was a relatively easy logic jump based off other events. And because it seems like a pretty common point.
Episode 15, though, has a bit less of it; if anything, it seems more set on genderless form than hermaphroditic. But even that's a stretch. The only really obvious conclusion is that her body is scarred from something and there's abuse involved; whether or not it's sexual depends on how you want to take the chiseling scenes.
Personally, I'm on the camp that said she had one in 14 and is less sure with the events of 15. Really, the lone loose bit that puzzles me is her fellow actress she was with; clearly whatever it is that plagues her so is something that even she didn't think that her body was loved despite that. So I assume it's something less physical and more emotional, a trauma of her past that she holds onto rather than a physical "deformity".
Episode 15, though, has a bit less of it; if anything, it seems more set on genderless form than hermaphroditic. But even that's a stretch. The only really obvious conclusion is that her body is scarred from something and there's abuse involved; whether or not it's sexual depends on how you want to take the chiseling scenes.
Personally, I'm on the camp that said she had one in 14 and is less sure with the events of 15. Really, the lone loose bit that puzzles me is her fellow actress she was with; clearly whatever it is that plagues her so is something that even she didn't think that her body was loved despite that. So I assume it's something less physical and more emotional, a trauma of her past that she holds onto rather than a physical "deformity".
Master Milk said:
Yes, I was anticipating people thinking she might have a penis, because, as I wrote in the post you quoted, many people were speculating that she did last week. The big talking points about episode 15 were, 'will Ringo be raped', and 'will it be revealed that Yuri has a penis?'.
As I said in my last post, my being able to form arguments just means that I'm able to look back on the show and recall things that clash with that interpretation. If you read over this thread you'll see that I come out with more counter-arguments as time goes by and I think about it more. Your and Motionblue's initial posts on the subject caused me to think about the subject and create a counter-argument. What is so 'odd' about that?
As I said in my last post, my being able to form arguments just means that I'm able to look back on the show and recall things that clash with that interpretation. If you read over this thread you'll see that I come out with more counter-arguments as time goes by and I think about it more. Your and Motionblue's initial posts on the subject caused me to think about the subject and create a counter-argument. What is so 'odd' about that?
The thought didn't occur to me until I'd seen it suggested by others on the internet.
Episode 15 presented a lot of material that clashed with that interpretation, which I've already outlined in this thread, yet some people are still sticking to it.
scy said:
All the 'evidence' there was in that episode was Tsubasa threatening to reveal the 'secret' of Yuri's body. It's silly to me how this whole theory has sprung up from such an ambiguous line, especially when nothing else points in that direction.
scy said:
Yuri suddenly appearing naked as the father beckons her to him after he explains that love only exists between family members is pretty suggestive though, no?
Agreed. Not to say she's notscy said:
physically scarred
firehawk12
Subete no aware
KimiBoku 4: I think the episode is a bit weaker, by virtue of having a flashback sequence that didn't quite mesh with the second half of the episode (thematically, they were connected, but they were introducing a different set of characters in each). And we get a random love triangle to think about, which is always... well, in this case, I'm sure it will be fine, but you never know.
Although, the episode did have a mom who trolls her son, and that trope is always funny. Forget brocon - now it's soncon!
Although, the episode did have a mom who trolls her son, and that trope is always funny. Forget brocon - now it's soncon!
Unknown Soldier
Member
zeroshiki said:
Don't we all.
Master Milk
Member
Krev said:
I thought it odd because before there were hints of rape or anything else, there were hints of a penis. Yea, some things happened in this episode that you want to take as proof that she doesn't have a penis, but the show still hasn't made it clear that she doesn't. If it were some other show it might be nonsensical to think that she has a penis, but this is Penguin Drum, she could have a penis. To be flabbergasted at people considering a possible possibility is odd.
MotionBlue
Member
Ben-To 01-03
Why did I hestiate to watch this? Its awesome fun. Silly humor, good fight scenes, its like traveling back in time.
Why did I hestiate to watch this? Its awesome fun. Silly humor, good fight scenes, its like traveling back in time.
Don't cross the streams!Krev said:
Master Milk said:
MPD
Wait, why would he need to prove to you that she doesn't have a penis? Common sense dictates that a woman doesn't have a penis so the burden is on you, in this argument, to prove that she does. You're seeing Yuri with a penis because you've conditioned yourself to want to see it at this point.
Penguindrum Redacted Documents
It probably is but
Krev said:
It's honestly not a huge leap of logic. She has "something" about her body that is normally unacceptable. Combined with the presumed happy fun rape time the episode left us with, it's one of those "Wait, so she's ...?" moments. Something about her body plus her going to take Ringo such that she can only appreciate her body. It snowballs from there as more and more people jump to the same conclusion based off of that.
Plus, all we think about are dicks. I won't be surprised either way, though I'm leaning more towards just the mental/emotional trauma rather than that she's packing. It's a pretty huge stretch that her father did anything close to making a penis for her, y'know? He's a sculptor, not a surgeon; he chisels away at the material given, not reconstructs it.
Plus, all we think about are dicks. I won't be surprised either way, though I'm leaning more towards just the mental/emotional trauma rather than that she's packing. It's a pretty huge stretch that her father did anything close to making a penis for her, y'know? He's a sculptor, not a surgeon; he chisels away at the material given, not reconstructs it.
It's highly, highly, highly suggestive to that regard. But, at the same time, it could just be there as a red herring and just used as part of him working on her as canvas. Still, it takes some ignoring of the talk of love to get to this point, at least in my opinion. Plus, phallic imagery and all that.
It probably is but
not in the way people were leaping at. Still, those physical scars are probably not the abnormality she was referencing. Unless she's really that vain on the whole thing :x
firehawk12
Subete no aware
That's an insult to Malick.zeroshiki said:
â Narayan
Member
FUCKHitokage said:Monster 53-56
It's clear who the real monster of this show is.
YES
One of the best shows, ever.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I can be your stalker.zeroshiki said:
Master Milk
Member
He doesn't need to prove anything to me. There's nothing he can prove anyway, because the show hasn't made anything clear. And this is Penguin Drum, don't talk about common sense like it matters.zeroshiki said:
Crash Station
Member
Sengoku Basara 2
THIS is why I watch anime. Extreme, badass, manly; none of these words do justice to the jaw-dropping spectacle I have just experienced. And I'm on the 2nd fuckin episode!
This is definitely something that has been missing from my life.
THIS is why I watch anime. Extreme, badass, manly; none of these words do justice to the jaw-dropping spectacle I have just experienced. And I'm on the 2nd fuckin episode!
This is definitely something that has been missing from my life.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Mawaru-Penguindrum 15 spoilers (nsfw maybe?)
I can grow them. I doubt I will get them any firm though...zeroshiki said:
CornBurrito
Member
MotionBlue said:
That isn't really implied at all. Well the "fucked up" part is, but not the latter part.
MotionBlue said:
It might be that
you remember the change in fate if you were the one that had their fate altered. Momoka remembers by doing the spell, but Yuri remembers by being the target.
Malick films do have points and stories. They're just different sorts to what you find most everywhere else.zeroshiki said:
Penguindrum spoilers
Yeah, I was agreeing about that.scy said:
The show also hasn't made it clear that Ringo isn't the reincarnation of Ringo Starr yet, has it? With the whole Octopus Garden and star motifs her scenes have had going on, I guess there's a possibility...?Master Milk said:
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