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[Dresden]

Nichijou would have been a much better show if it was JUST about the Professor.

wut

Annoying character, saved only by Nano's presence.

Ideally it'd just be the trio + Nano being bros in school.

 

[hellclerk]

Oh, it's you.

Figures you'd latch on to a terrible show like Nichijou.

Figures you wouldn't be one to not like it yourself.

I just feel that, as it's a show I watched pretty much all the way through, I can speak about it in fairly black and white terms. It's a show that aimed to be, by and large, simply a comedy. There was no pretence at trying to do anything else, it was focused on one thing, which it did not deliver very often. If you're only trying to do one thing, and you can't do it, I don't really have any kind words for you.

There were a few 'evergreen' supporters of it on this forum, but many people here seemed to share the opinion that it was an oddly boring show far too often.

And I found Azumanga Dao to be boring. Doesn't mean I go around proclaiming that Azumanga is objectively boring every chance I get. Every show has their low points, and not every joke will make it through, but on the whole, it was very funny, just not to you. Sometimes you have to take a very confusing five to ten minutes to set up a single, simplistic visual gag, because that's the charm and what brings the laughter.

tl;dr, If you don't like it, tough. There are people who do. Lest you all forget how awesome Hidan no Aria was, even though none of you believed me at first!

Oh, and concerning the Madoka Saimoe thing, Dynedom has it right. Saimoe polls are about moe type rather than anything actually relating to character. That's why Sakura has this competition in the bag. People like their fiery tsunderes a bit more than their confident big-tittied Yamamoto Nadeshikos. It tends to be the deres that win these things.

 

[Jex]

And I found Azumanga Dao to be boring. Doesn't mean I go around proclaiming that Azumanga is objectively boring every chance I get. Every show has their low points, and not every joke will make it through, but on the whole, it was very funny, just not to you. Sometimes you have to take a very confusing five to ten minutes to set up a single, simplistic visual gag, because that's the charm and what brings the laughter.

I don't recall ever declaring Nichijou objectively boring.

 

[Mature]

And I found Azumanga Dao to be boring. Doesn't mean I go around proclaiming that Azumanga is objectively boring every chance I get. Every show has their low points, and not every joke will make it through, but on the whole, it was very funny, just not to you. Sometimes you have to take a very confusing five to ten minutes to set up a single, simplistic visual gag, because that's the charm and what brings the laughter.

Quit using your opinion.

 

[Branduil]

Sakura... tsundere

Even silly words like that have meaning, you can't just use them however you want.

 

[Steroyd]

There's plenty you can say nice in terms of production. The animation, art design, music, etc. was all fantastic. It just wasn't consistently funny, which is bad when you're making a comedy.

That's Kyoani in a nutshell, it's pretty much the standard we expect from them.

Figures you wouldn't be one to not like it yourself.


And I found Azumanga Dao to be boring. Doesn't mean I go around proclaiming that Azumanga is objectively boring every chance I get. Every show has their low points, and not every joke will make it through, but on the whole, it was very funny, just not to you. Sometimes you have to take a very confusing five to ten minutes to set up a single, simplistic visual gag, because that's the charm and what brings the laughter.

Except a number of times there were no simplistic visual gags at the end of the long "setups", just a confusing 5 - 10 minutes.

Oh, and concerning the Madoka Saimoe thing, Dynedom has it right. Saimoe polls are about moe type rather than anything actually relating to character. That's why Sakura has this competition in the bag. People like their fiery tsunderes a bit more than their confident big-tittied Yamamoto Nadeshikos. It tends to be the deres that win these things.

Kyokou isn't a tsundere and Mami isn't a Yamamoto Nadeshiko though she is big titted.

 

[jman2050]

Kyokou isn't a tsundere and Mami isn't a Yamamoto Nadeshiko though she is big titted.

I wouldn't call kyouko a tsundere archetype but she does check several of the boxes.

She's more predominantly the disenchanted cynic type than anything else though.

 

[scy]

Even in battle, they talk a lot Horizon 5 - If this episode came sooner, I imagine there would be a few more people still on board with this.

Well, we finally get

Spoiler

an explanation as to Horizon's overall significance to the plot -- the 9th Mortal Sin weapon. And Motonobu's goal (...maybe) is explained: To divert from the history of the world as dictated by the Testament by causing a new war. Maybe? Since they're after the destruction of the world ... am I to think of them as the bad guys? Good guys for fighting against the recreation of History as a means to prevent the destruction of the world? Either way, Mikawa is destroyed, Horizon is taken, and shit is going to go down ...

Also, I feel sad that

Spoiler

the first fatality is Kazuno and I feel really bad about meido dying. Even if she was a doll. Unsure if Gin is a doll as well (and where exactly was she hiding those guns anyway?) or if she's just like that. Also looks like Tadakatsu (and Motonobu) are done for it as well. We're starting to thin the crowd of people to keep track of! Hooray!

Well, shit. This is an interesting way to start the serious parts off.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

All I know about Nichijou is it made me laugh a lot and was a joy to look at. That counts as a success in my book. It certainly wasn't consistent and I can see why people don't like it, but all the peer pressure in the world can't stop me from enjoying it.

 

[trejo]

Azumanga rules Nichijou drools.

 

[Branduil]

I wouldn't call kyouko a tsundere archetype but she does check several of the boxes.

She's more predominantly the disenchanted cynic type than anything else though.

Well, a change of opinion on someone isn't being a tsundere.

Spoiler

I mean she started off wanting to murder Sayaka, that's not tsundere, that's actually hating someone.

 

[scy]

All I know about Nichijou is it made me laugh a lot and was a joy to look at. That counts as a success in my book. It certainly wasn't consistent and I can see why people don't like it, but all the peer pressure in the world can't stop me from enjoying it.

The internet has failed!

 

[Articalys]

Idolmaster 18

Well, I guess they had to have a Ritsko episode to appease the fans eventually, even if it ended up as basically filler. I did like

Spoiler

the imagery of the wave of green moving through the crowd

though.
Also, is there any reason why Miki seems to have trouble speaking to Ritsuko with honorifics?

 

[trejo]

B-but I thought every character in Madoka was a worn out archetype that simply fit their respective molds. Why are y'all having such a hard time categorizing Kyouko?

 

[trejo]

The internet has failed!

Or it hasn't tried hard enough.

 

[Steroyd]

I wouldn't call kyouko a tsundere archetype but she does check several of the boxes.

She's more predominantly the disenchanted cynic type than anything else though.

The problem with ticking boxes is that the character A may genuinely hate Character B for reason X, and then grow to like them as time goes on.

That's like 95% of anime characters out there with that description, and it used to be called character development.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Except that it was the best show last season and 90 percent of the time.

Oh, certainly true. You left one thing out, though -- it's not just the best show last season and one of the best comedy animes ever (only trailing things like Azumanga and Excel Saga), it's also certainly this year's best anime series so far. Nichijou is a truly great show, and every episode is absolutely fully of funny stuff. My only real complaint is that it repeats the same jokes too many times, but at least it keeps them funny, if similar.

 

[hellclerk]

I don't recall ever declaring Nichijou objectively boring.

There is no black and white in literary criticism. You made the mistake of claiming there was.

http://i.imgur.com/XnYkG.gif[IMG]

Even silly words like that have meaning, you can't just use them however you want.[/QUOTE]
I'm not. She's an outwardly negatively aggressive character that hides a softer, kinder side behind the "tsun-tsun" (i.e. the combinaion between tsun and dere). That's tsundere, straight and narrow. Only reason that there might be confusion is because there's not clear or even implied romance between any of the characters. Provided with such a predicament, I have no doubts that she'd go all "B-b-baka Shinji!" on us. Just because the traditional symptoms weren't on display due to genre dissonance doesn't mean that there weren't other signs. Besides, tsundere is a pretty damned wide character type. Ostensibly, Mio from [I]K-ON[/I] is a tsundere, and yet her character is very different than say, Taiga from [I]Toradora![/I].

I do however concede that Mami isn't Yamato Nadeshiko though. That was a hasty classification. There's a hint of that Proper Lady thing mixed in with the Big Sister. But ultimately, the fetish tends to fall more strongly on those that say "Onii-chan" rather than those you call "Onee-chan". Sakura will take it, to the rhythmic fapping of a thousand sweaty otaku. Enjoy your horrible mental image. You bastards.

 

[Branduil]

Ostensibly, Mio from K-ON is a tsundere

See, here's the problem again where you just use words to mean whatever you want.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's like the Moe discussion all over again

 

[MotionBlue]

Penguindrum 17

More questions. More

Spoiler

incest. More everyone but the Hero/Heroines knowing what the fuck is going on. More Yuri being a crazy bitch. Ringo still talks to Yuri? After the attempted rape/molestation? What the fuck? Are we supposed to pretend that roofies magically wiped out that part of the evening?

Also, EPIC music during

Spoiler

the Yuri/Rich Chick confrontation.

Oh, and Tabuki:

Spoiler

Was the death threat all an act to scare Himari away from Yuri, the real threat to her life? It seems both contradictory and out of character for him.

I recognize and appreciate the quality that goes into the show, but I want some god damn answers already.

 

[hellclerk]

See, here's the problem again where you just use words to mean whatever you want.

Or the word has a broader meaning than to which you're assigning. No two characters of archetype are exactly the same. Archetypes are at best wide categories, similar to genre. Like genres, archetypes are combination of convention and innovation. This means that while there's a pool of characteristics for an archetype, no single character can check every box. Similarly, they will have conventions that aren't typical for the archetype. These can be plot, visual, or character based. Simply put though, tsundere describes a character type that uses negative aggression to hide softer feelings and personality towards one or many characters, hence the combination of "tsun-tsun" and "dere-dere". The character can achieve this in many different ways with only a few necessary characteristics, which is why both Mio and Taiga can be tsundere without having to be the same character.

tl;dr, you're thinking too small.

 

[Branduil]

Or the word has a broader meaning than to which you're assigning. No two characters of archetype are exactly the same. Archetypes are at best wide categories, similar to genre. Like genres, archetypes are combination of convention and innovation. This means that while there's a pool of characteristics for an archetype, no single character can check every box. Similarly, they will have conventions that aren't typical for the archetype. These can be plot, visual, or character based. Simply put though, tsundere describes a character type that uses negative aggression to hide softer feelings and personality towards one or many characters, hence the combination of "tsun-tsun" and "dere-dere". The character can achieve this in many different ways with only a few necessary characteristics.

tl;dr, you're thinking too small.

When you can put both Mio and Kyouko in the same box that box has very little meaning at all any more. There's no point in using a word that non-descriptive.

 

[Dresden]

Or the word has a broader meaning than to which you're assigning. No two characters of archetype are exactly the same. Archetypes are at best wide categories, similar to genre. Like genres, archetypes are combination of convention and innovation. This means that while there's a pool of characteristics for an archetype, no single character can check every box. Similarly, they will have conventions that aren't typical for the archetype. These can be plot, visual, or character based. Simply put though, tsundere describes a character type that uses negative aggression to hide softer feelings and personality towards one or many characters, hence the combination of "tsun-tsun" and "dere-dere". The character can achieve this in many different ways with only a few necessary characteristics, which is why both Lelouch and Madoka can be tsundere without having to be the same character.

 

[Steroyd]

I'm not. She's an outwardly negatively aggressive character that hides a softer, kinder side behind the "tsun-tsun" (i.e. the combinaion between tsun and dere). That's tsundere, straight and narrow. Only reason that there might be confusion is because there's not clear or even implied romance between any of the characters. Provided with such a predicament, I have no doubts that she'd go all "B-b-baka Shinji!" on us.

No she doesn't hide a soft kinder side, she starts off

Spoiler

wanting to take over Mami's turf because she needs to the seeds to survive simple as, really would have killed Sayaka if not for Homura, and Homura cockblocked her for a long time, and when Kyuubei kept fucking them over with his "you didn't ask" bullshittery, she realises it's more detrimental to be a lone wolf, and opens up from there.

Just because the traditional symptoms weren't on display due to genre dissonance doesn't mean that there weren't other signs. Besides, tsundere is a pretty damned wide character type. Ostensibly, Mio from K-ON is a tsundere, and yet her character is very different than say, Taiga from Toradora!.

What the fudge!? Mio is a scardy cat, where'd you get tsundere from that!?

 

[PataHikari]

I don't recall ever declaring Nichijou objectively boring.

Actually you did when you said that it being boring was "all that could be said" about it.

 

[trejo]

I really missed you doomed1. Wait, or did I?

 

[Branduil]

I really missed you doomed1. Wait, or did I?

You're tsundere, obviously.

 

[Geneijin]

Actually you did when you said that it being boring was "all that could be said" about it.

You're misreading it.

Nichijou was boring like, 75% of the time. This was a problem throughout it's run, apart from a few episodes in the middle that there were much stronger. There isn't really anything else to say about it.

 

[trejo]

What the fudge!? Mio is a scardy cat, where'd you get tsundere from that!?

I thought Mio was the tsukomi to Ritsu's boke.

You're tsundere, obviously.

shut up shut up shut up!

 

[PdotMichael]

I would say she is just shy? but I guess I am wrong

 

[Branduil]

I would say she is just shy? but I guess I am wrong

What's the point in using words that more accurately describe a character when you can just classify everyone as the same generic thing?

 

[Steroyd]

Or the word has a broader meaning than to which you're assigning. No two characters of archetype are exactly the same. Archetypes are at best wide categories, similar to genre. Like genres, archetypes are combination of convention and innovation. This means that while there's a pool of characteristics for an archetype, no single character can check every box. Similarly, they will have conventions that aren't typical for the archetype. These can be plot, visual, or character based. Simply put though, tsundere describes a character type that uses negative aggression to hide softer feelings and personality towards one or many characters, hence the combination of "tsun-tsun" and "dere-dere". The character can achieve this in many different ways with only a few necessary characteristics, which is why both Lelouch and Madoka can be tsundere without having to be the same character.

I see Tsundere in the same light as I do the Yandere and Kuudere(?) which describe a very specific outline of a character which anime has followed religiously since it died, and doomed1 himself even said:

I have no doubts that she'd go all "B-b-baka Shinji!" on us.

Which points that he's looking at the word Tsundere that is pretty much the same that everyone else plus the whole anime industry sees a tsundere as.

 

[hellclerk]

No she doesn't hide a soft kinder side, she starts off

Spoiler

wanting to take over Mami's turf because she needs to the seeds to survive simple as, really would have killed Sayaka if not for Homura, and Homura cockblocked her for a long time, and when Kyuubei kept fucking them over with his "you didn't ask" bullshittery, she realises it's more detrimental to be a lone wolf, and opens up from there.

Perhaps I should restate. Sakura is a tsundere in everything but role. Her appeal to the fanbase is that of a tsundere, and I do believe such "tsun-tsun" discussions were going on in these threads when the show was actually airing. Her role in the story might not classify her as "the Tsundere", though I contend that's a matter of genre. In that regard, she's as much "the Atoner" as "the Dragon". However, I find her core personality archetype was Tsundere Type A, just without a "dere trigger".

What the fudge!? Mio is a scardy cat, where'd you get tsundere from that!?

Tsundere Type B. Do you SEE how Mio acts around Ritsu and Yui when they're being silly? SO very tsun-tsun...

When you can put both Mio and Kyouko in the same box that box has very little meaning at all any more. There's no point in using a word that non-descriptive.

Did you read a thing I wrote? There's more than one type of tsundere is what I'm saying. Mio is tsundere in the same way that Kagami from lucky star is tsundere and Sakura is tsundere the same way that taiga is tsundere. Kagami and Taiga are both tsundere, but they're still two completely different characters!

 

[Branduil]

Did you read a thing I wrote? There's more than one type of tsundere is what I'm saying. Mio is tsundere in the same way that Kagami from lucky star is tsundere and Sakura is tsundere the same way that taiga is tsundere. Kagami and Taiga are both tsundere, but they're still two completely different characters!

Kyouko is nothing like Taiga. This is just silly.

 

[scy]

The world is tsundere.

 

[hellclerk]

Kyouko is nothing like Taiga. This is just silly.

Their primary differences are caused by requirements of genre, not character. Perhaps another Rie character would be appropriate? Shana from SnS is resembles Sakura so closely it's amazing that Rie didn't voice her too.

 

[Infinite Justice]

I see TVtropes is in full force around here.

 

[zeroshiki]

I went to sleep and there are 5 pages on Nichijou, Madoka and K-on. Its like I'm stuck in a time loop.

 

[Mature]

Do these seasonal threads normally devolve like this? I was having a good time in here until recently. =/

 

[Branduil]

Their primary differences are caused by requirements of genre, not character

What in Omigawa's name are you talking about? It has nothing to do with genre. It's not like tsunderes can't exist in magical girl anime. Kyouko isn't a tsundere because she's a different character type.

Do these seasonal threads normally devolve like this? I was having a good time in here until recently. =/

Sorry, this just seems to be what happens when we talk about Madoka when doomed is here.

 

[Steroyd]

Perhaps I should restate. Sakura is a tsundere in everything but role. Her appeal to the fanbase is that of a tsundere, and I do believe such "tsun-tsun" discussions were going on in these threads when the show was actually airing. Her role in the story might not classify her as "the Tsundere", though I contend that's a matter of genre. In that regard, she's as much "the Atoner" as "the Dragon". However, I find her core personality archetype was Tsundere Type A, just without a "dere trigger".

If she's tsun tsun without the dere trigger, than how the heck is she a tsundere!?

This is like calling a platformer game with RPG elements an RPG, it's just not.

Kyouko fanbase comes from Kyouko being a bro when it mattered, trying to show Sayaka how much despair the path of the Puella magi was and those snaks she eats, and dat fang, I definately think it was the fang that was her biggest appeal just like Mami's boobs.

Tsundere Type B. Do you SEE how Mio acts around Ritsu and Yui when they're being silly? SO very tsun-tsun...

But Mio isn't putting up a scardy cat front because she likes Yui and Ritsu.... she's just a scardy cat.

Did you read a thing I wrote? There's more than one type of tsundere is what I'm saying. Mio is tsundere in the same way that Kagami from lucky star is tsundere and Sakura is tsundere the same way that taiga is tsundere. Kagami and Taiga are both tsundere, but they're still two completely different characters!

I've got to say you're the only person I've seen use the term Tsundere so loosely in this way.

 

[zeroshiki]

Do these seasonal threads normally devolve like this? I was having a good time in here until recently. =/

Meh, its usually quiet until people find something to argue about. The insanity is nonstop though.

 

[Steroyd]

Do these seasonal threads normally devolve like this? I was having a good time in here until recently. =/

It used to be worse, but thanks to the existance of the IRC chat it's become a rarer occurance.

 

[Branduil]

"Stop being so tsundere, Jack."

"It's not like I like you or anything, baka Island. I just had to go back, that's all."

 

[Articalys]

I went to sleep and there are 5 pages on Nichijou, Madoka and K-on. Its like I'm stuck in a time loop.

e: ah, never mind. I'm about to watch Endless Eight anyway.

 

[hellclerk]

Ugh... this isn't going to get anywhere unless I decide to pull out specific instances in the show, and for the life of me I do NOT want to rewatch that travesty of a

Spoiler

secret Magical Girl Groundhog's Day

again if I can avoid it, and that analyzing from an archetypal perspective is about as fluid as the rest of lit criticism. I can understand where everyone is coming from with my more loose definition of tsundere, but like I said before, archetypes, by their nature have to be fast and loose or else they end up being so strict that there's really no purpose for them. Archetypes are approximations and subject to an individual's reading of the piece. Would anyone agree with me if I said that Romeo and Juliet was a black comedy?

Do these seasonal threads normally devolve like this? I was having a good time in here until recently. =/

Heh, sorry. Only with the particularly controversial, such as Madoka, Nichijou, other popular things. Thankfully, things apparently died on the K-ON! front with more people warming up to it.

 

[Hitokage]

Ugh... this isn't going to get anywhere unless I decide to pull out specific instances in the show, and for the life of me I do NOT want to rewatch that travesty of a

Spoiler

secret Magical Girl Groundhog's Day

again if I can avoid it, and that analyzing from an archetypal perspective is about as fluid as the rest of lit criticism. I can understand where everyone is coming from with my more loose definition of tsundere, but like I said before, archetypes, by their nature have to be fast and loose or else they end up being so strict that there's really no purpose for them. Archetypes are approximations and subject to an individual's reading of the piece. Would anyone agree with me if I said that Romeo and Juliet was a black comedy?

There really wasn't any danger of that. Even if it just meant most kugilolis that'd be something to talk about.

 

[Haly]

Do these seasonal threads normally devolve like this? I was having a good time in here until recently. =/

It comes in cycles, like girls' periods or the phases of the moon.

 

[trejo]

I blame 7th, as per usual.