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[Articalys]

Un-Go 6

I just remembered that the theaters-only episode 0 is happening this weekend. Wonder how critical the plot details from it will be?

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Guilty Crown 6

Wow each episode keeps maintaining the high action climactic action week after week. Kenji is actually a really compelling character, tied with, Shu, who remains a favorite and we even got

Spoiler

Daryl back in action

.

Spoiler

Taking out the leucophyte with the gravity gun combined with the sword and the precisely time hit from the pen location to the satellite was mind blowing, he needs to unleash it every episode

. With the team finally set up I cant wait to see how the undertakers prevail over the course of the show.

 

[zeroshiki]

Guilty Crown Episode 6

Pro-tip for anime fans with gambling tendencies: Never ever make a bet with anyone that Guilty Crown cannot get any dumber. It will always prove you wrong. I wouldn't make such a bet myself anyway, but just saying, if you plan to, don't. It's amazing how moronic the writing in this show is. Nothing feels "real" honestly. The stuff that come out of the characters' mouths, the way scenes occur, the way one thing leads to another, it's all sketchy at best, and completely retarded at worst. Today's episode is something I would classify under "at worst".

On the plus side, this is the first episode of the show where they bothered to get a mecha animation director and actual animators for the robots, so they're all nice looking instead of ugly CG garbage. The action scenes look nice, and there were some cool moments. But nothing can save the show when the writing feels like a 10 year old trying to do GRITTY SCIFI ACTION DRAMA while pissing all over himself due to lack of self control.

I bet cosmicblizzard will love this episode though. Lulz.

Why do you hurt me so?

-_- I fell asleep waiting for it last night

 

[hellclerk]

And what happens if this business model goes the same way it did in the US when anime companies in the US tried the same thing? Consumers started realizing that a short time after the volumes are complete, there would be a box set at a much lower price. As such, volume sales started declining rapidly as fans simply waited for the box set instead. Eventually it resulted in the companies having to give up and convert completely to a box set only strategy. In the US, the actual price difference between all the volumes combined and the box sets wasn't -that- large. If the same thing happened in Japan, a lot of companies might really go out of business.

Two reasons: Consumer culture, and value for price. Keep in mind, this model DID work in the VHS era if only due to logistics, but when the DVD came to market and matured, you began seeing entire seasons being put into boxsets. It was cheaper and you could add more value for more gain. People became used to this, and because the American otaku is much less ravenous about this sort of product compared to the Japanese (thanks in part to the huge grey market of fansubs, which has only recently started to be monetized), they waited out the volumes and bought the box sets.

And why wouldn't they? The box set of Show X was almost always more feature rich than the volumes. I bought a complete DVD box set of Gunslinger Girl that included interviews with US production staff, voice actors, tons of production art and promotional material, AND the OAVs. It also cost less than buying the individual season box sets on BRD that didn't have those features.

THIS would be the primary differentiating factor between the volumes and the box set: You can save disc cost by putting ONLY the episodes in there and then fill the volume disc space with special features that otaku would be like flies on shit to. If you incentivize buying the volumes (like they already do with extra episodes and such), then the core consumers will purchase them and those without personal investment into the series can still buy the striped down show in the box set.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Hon, I will watch another episode tomorrow and we can start this all over again if you'd like. :3

You'll see why you want to watch more than just one episode at a time soon enough. Episode 2 is a self-contained one, though. You can probably get away with watching that one on it's own.

 

[Uchip]

persona 4 is up to episode 7 now...
did it turn out alright or nah

 

[wonzo]

persona 4 is up to episode 7 now...
did it turn out alright or nah

it's pretty bad. i dropped it @ ep 4

 

[Dedication Through Light]

persona 4 is up to episode 7 now...
did it turn out alright or nah

As one who never played the game, I think its pretty enjoyable, Yosuke keeps the experience fun and the music more than makes up for the occasional slip up in character animation.

 

[Uchip]

As one who never played the game, I think its pretty enjoyable, Yosuke keeps the experience fun and the music more than makes up for the occasional slip up in character animation.

yes but you seem to be loving guilty crown
so i have to take what you are saying with a salt shaker

 

[duckroll]

Two reasons: Consumer culture, and value for price. Keep in mind, this model DID work in the VHS era if only due to logistics, but when the DVD came to market and matured, you began seeing entire seasons being put into boxsets. It was cheaper and you could add more value for more gain. People became used to this, and because the American otaku is much less ravenous about this sort of product compared to the Japanese (thanks in part to the huge grey market of fansubs, which has only recently started to be monetized), they waited out the volumes and bought the box sets.

And why wouldn't they? The box set of Show X was almost always more feature rich than the volumes. I bought a complete DVD box set of Gunslinger Girl that included interviews with US production staff, voice actors, tons of production art and promotional material, AND the OAVs. It also cost less than buying the individual season box sets on BRD that didn't have those features.

THIS would be the primary differentiating factor between the volumes and the box set: You can save disc cost by putting ONLY the episodes in there and then fill the volume disc space with special features that otaku would be like flies on shit to. If you incentivize buying the volumes (like they already do with extra episodes and such), then the core consumers will purchase them and those without personal investment into the series can still buy the striped down show in the box set.

But this would be just you view on the consumer culture and value for price. It might not reflect the actual reality, and it might not be accurate. What I'm asking is, what insurance does a distributor like Aniplex have against such a plan backfiring on them? You see what I'm saying? There is a pretty significant risk that it could backfire. To want to attempt such a plan to begin with there has to be some sort of security blanket. Otherwise there's no reason for them to do something out of the norm when they're pretty profitable right now.

 

[e_i]

I should be getting my copy of Five Centimeters Per Second Global Edition tomorrow (it also has Voices of a Distant Star and She and Her Cat). Next week it's Hoshi wo Ou Kodomo. I bought the Hoshi wo Ou Kodomo RE from CDJapan that comes with postcards and autographed picture. I really can't shake the feeling that Hoshi wo Ou Kodomo looks like a Ghilbi movie.

 

[hellclerk]

But this would be just you view on the consumer culture and value for price. It might not reflect the actual reality, and it might not be accurate. What I'm asking is, what insurance does a distributor like Aniplex have against such a plan backfiring on them? You see what I'm saying? There is a pretty significant risk that it could backfire. To want to attempt such a plan to begin with there has to be some sort of security blanket. Otherwise there's no reason for them to do something out of the norm when they're pretty profitable right now.

It's because it can be done on a small, low risk scale first. Use the model for lower-key, lower budget releases. If it works, then great! Aniplex can expand the model to increasingly higher profile shows. If it doesn't, then they can scale it back and quietly make it disappear with little to no significant effect on financials. Discs are cheap, so the risk comes in with how heavily it's pushed in the first place. A low-key implementation would allow for some actual market study to be done first.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

it's pretty bad. i dropped it @ ep 4

Wrong, it's gotten better every episode since the first. It's actually quite good now, after the 5th and 6th episodes I was getting pretty excited about the rest of the series.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I dunno, I think he just happened to be in the position to take it, and the sooner they took care of Monarch the better. I'm sure if Yarizui could have taken it herself at that time, she would have.

"Just happened"? These things don't happen by accident...

Is that even a yandere? I always got the impression that Dokoro was just generally psychotic.

Yeah, I don't know if I'd call her yandere either. She's extremely violent, but I don't think she's Yandere crazy... she's crazy in a different way.

Yui's stockings are too high for zettai ryouiki

They're more likely pantyhose, I'd think.

.. Yui with Zettai Ryouiki, though... no, she'd still be really annoying.

There's alot of reasons that women sit with their legs closed. Aside from the painfully obvious sexual cues, women who wear skirts and dresses tend to sit like that to keep people from looking up at their undergarments and is a less threatening posture than cross-knee. Ritsu doesn't because her personality is the "looser, sloppier, tomboyish" one. If anything it shows that they were very deliberately posed for that poster to express their personalities (and remind otaku of the moe~moe) with nothing but a visual cue.

Right.

Uncertain returns my ass. If they can't see the unsustainability of the business model, then they deserve their death. It only takes one studio to release a tiered pricing model with a moderately successful show. Hell, we can already see this model with the American movie DVD and BluRay industry. It's not even very risky to implement either!

Heh... yeah, their current pricing structure is completely insane. I guess their excuse would be that they don't know if there'd be enough of a larger market if they made it cheaper, but seriously, can they really keep on with things as they are? Everyone can see where they're heading on this path.

It's the dere. It's knowing that underneath that sharp and abusive exterior she's really sweet and vulnerable for you (and only you) that just drives the moe~moe through the roof. It's the whole appeal behind the tsundere. It's a bizarre (and very interesting) implementation of a patriarchal influence on a feminist ideal (the aggressive female). Oh heteronormativity, when will you cease to bring me interest.

Pretty much, yeah, for the stereotypical tsundere.

It is extremely easy to play an armchair critic and make very general statements about how easy such a plan is without considering any specifics. It's easy to just assume that such a plan is a guaranteed success and it is stupid that no one ever considered it. But when you sit down and actually look at the sort of numbers shows are pulling in, and you break it down by distributors, and you look at their marketing tactics, it becomes a lot harder to even justify trying anything like this for even a single show.

Let's presume you want to have a serious discussion about this. We'll take a typical 11 episode noitaminA series as a point of discussion.

- How much would you charge for a blu-ray set of the entire series in Japan?

- How many copies more will you have to sell at that price to stand to profit compared to releasing it on 5 blu-ray volumes at 7800yen each?

- What is the likelihood that you will be able to sell that many more copies simply by selling it for cheaper?

- Are the audience for the show even the type who would buy a show on home video? Or are they just interested in watching it once?

- If you end up selling the same number of copies for the cheaper set compared to how many copies of each volume you would normally be able to sell at the normal business model, how much money would you have lost with this experiment?

Let's consider these basic points for now. We can expand the discussion further if there is interest.

I think the question is, have they written themselves into a corner by only targeting this tiny base (that watch shows in the middle of the night and buy extremely expensive DVDs), or is there really no market for anime that isn't Miyazaki or endless shonen?

Otakus are what finance the industry. 99% of what Hollywood and Bollywood make are catering to specific fanbases, to expect the anime industry to be any different is lunacy. Granted, there are many different subsets of fanbases for live-action films, so it seems superficially that 99% of Hollywood and Bollywood produce are more diverse, but it's not the case. Hollywood's production today consists mainly of big-budget summer action movies, generic romantic comedies, torture-porn horror remakes of classic horror films, and the occasional art-house film made primarily to qualify for the Academy Awards voting. There is very minimal original-ness in Hollywood these days, and for the same reasons as the anime industry. You know who gives you money year-in and year-out, and you know what they like. So you make what they like. They give you money. The industry continues. Everyone's happy, except hipsters. Business as usual, in every media market in every developed nation around the world.

The difference is that those Hollywood movies are aimed at the mass market, not just a tiny subset of it. And while you're right that big Hollywood movies usually fit into a few categories, that makes for a quite different tone from something aimed just at one small market. Whether that's better or worse depends on who you ask though of course, I'm sure.

He's kind of like the 'every man' that you find in an American show, except he's far less palatable because of his 'weak' disposition. If it's a character type that truly resonates, and it's persistence throughout the years seems to suggest that it does, then perhaps that says something interesting about the male audience for this kind of work in Japan.

It's the weak disposition part that Western anime watchers seem to find the most frustrating about those characters, I think... and it's a good criticism.

 

[Uchip]

Wrong, it's gotten better every episode since the first. It's actually quite good now, after the 5th and 6th episodes I was getting pretty excited about the rest of the series.

not sure if want

on a random note, there is something about chies eyes that make her look derped out
like her eyes are too far apart
http://videogamesheaven.net/movie-p4-character-003.jpg
this was far worse in the game though

 

[firehawk12]

Oh, I remember the times we had with that show. How could I ever forget?!
Honestly, I actually do think Seikon no Breastmilk got a little dumber in S2 tho.

Did you watch all of S2 or something??

 

[7Th]

I think the question is, have they written themselves into a corner by only targeting this tiny base (that watch shows in the middle of the night and buy extremely expensive DVDs), or is there really no market for anime that isn't Miyazaki or endless shonen?

Japan's view of animation isn't particularly different from USA's view of animation; cartoons are for families, kids and lonely nerds.

 

[duckroll]

It's because it can be done on a small, low risk scale first. Use the model for lower-key, lower budget releases. If it works, then great! Aniplex can expand the model to increasingly higher profile shows. If it doesn't, then they can scale it back and quietly make it disappear with little to no significant effect on financials. Discs are cheap, so the risk comes in with how heavily it's pushed in the first place. A low-key implementation would allow for some actual market study to be done first.

The problem with the small low risk scale for lower-key, lower budget releases is that the market has actually shown that when it comes to shows that bomb, even a low price won't save it. I can list a few examples.

The Marvel Anime shows by Madhouse are all being released by Sony Pictures in Japan as complete series sets. Each complete blu-ray set for all 13 episodes of a Marvel Anime series only costs 10,000-12,000yen, depending on the store. How are they selling? They don't even chart so they have to be selling less than a thousand copies each.

Another example would be movies like Sword of the Stranger and Redline. These are movies which don't really go for otaku pandering thing, but are just general action movies. If they were life action, they would probably get a decent amount of attention from mainstream audiences. For these movies, there's usually a very cheap bare-bones DVD version that goes for about 3800yen, specifically meant for low barrier of entry, while the higher end versions with storyboards, tons of special features, etc are regular priced for fans. What's the result? It's not really effective at all in attracting a larger audience. No one cares.

That's why I mentioned before that based on existing market research and sales trend evidence, it is totally pointless to "try" something with an unpopular product to begin with. To really know if they can tap into a MUCH larger audience with a lower price point, they would need to risk it with a major release which is popular enough that mainstream audiences would have actually heard of it and would consider buying it at a lower price. At the same time, the risk with trying this with a release that actually matters is so risky that no one would do it. That's why we're back to square one.

 

[hellclerk]

Japan's view of animation isn't particularly different from USA's view of animation; cartoons are for families, kids and lonely nerds.

Are you really sure? I mean, the market for 15-35 cartoons in America is almost exclusively comedic (The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, Venture Brothers, etc.) but there's a proportionately sizable enough market for serious content seinen to get a few shows in that genre a season.

 

[Ezalc]

Oh, I remember the times we had with that show. How could I ever forget?!
Honestly, I actually do think Seikon no Breastmilk got a little dumber in S2 tho.

I'm a fan of boobs and even I didn't watch this shit. How did you survive it. I have to comment on Seikon no Qwaiser that I think it's premise (the whole everybody can control a different element one) is incredibly interesting and I would have loved to see it done in a proper battle shounen without all the fanservice.

 

[7Th]

Are you really sure? I mean, the market for 15-35 cartoons in America is almost exclusively comedic (The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, Venture Brothers, etc.) but there's a proportionately sizable enough market for serious content seinen to get a few shows in that genre a season.

Where is my "serious content seinen" show this season? The only "serious content seinen" show we got this year was Kaiji S2 and it was nothing but glorified advertisement for the extremely popular manga.

 

[Uchip]

I'm a fan of boobs and even I didn't watch this shit.

wait
there are guys that aren't boob fans?

 

[Ezalc]

wait
there are guys that aren't boob fans?

There are ass men and legs men. I tend to fall to the latter category to be honest. Though anime boobs are something to behold.

 

[duckroll]

wait
there are guys that aren't boob fans?

Probably the DFC fanclub. Sickos, all of them. They should be joining Sennorin!

 

[watervengeance]

wait
there are guys that aren't boob fans?

DFCs.

 

[Uchip]

There are ass men and legs men. I tend to fall to the latter category to be honest. Though anime boobs are something to behold.

if only we had anti-gravity boobs in reality
ours is a sad existence

DFCs.

is that like DLC?

 

[Ezalc]

if only we had anti-gravity boobs in reality
ours is a sad existence



is that like DLC?

One day in the future there will be anti-gravity bras that will make our dream a reality. BELIEVE.

No it's more like... weirdos and heretics. There is nothing D about FC.

 

[firehawk12]

BokuTomo 7:

Rika is pretty much a member of animeGAF:

Also, Yozora is as horrible as Taichi man.

 

[watervengeance]

Anime boobs are actually pretty disgusting. The larger they are, the less attractive they are to me in anime. It's not even comparable to boobs on a real person.

 

[Hitokage]

Anime boobs are actually pretty disgusting. The larger they are, the less attractive they are to me in anime. It's not even comparable to boobs on a real person.

Balloon tits are just so ridiculous.

 

[Ezalc]

For me there's a certain level of hugeness they can get to before it gets disgusting. Tsunade level is still hot, that Cattleya shit from Queen's Blade is too much.

 

[Uchip]

Anime boobs are actually pretty disgusting. The larger they are, the less attractive they are to me in anime. It's not even comparable to boobs on a real person.

I agree
though there are always exceptions

 

[watervengeance]

I agree
though there are always exceptions

The woman on the left looks anorexic as fuck.

Can't really comment on the one on the right, since that's a misleading angle.

 

[Morris]

Oniisama e 9 - 12

Saint Juste Sama, keeping it classy all day everyday.

 

[zeroshiki]

BokuTomo 7:


Also, Yozora is as horrible as Taichi man.

Yozora is pretty bad. This is why Sena > Yozora.

But Taichi > Arata.

 

[Ezalc]

I agree
though there are always exceptions

Those two are hot but nowhere near Cattleya level. I don't think I can even link pics of her, just search Cattleya Queen's Blade on google and you'll see what I mean.

 

[firehawk12]

Yozora is pretty bad. This is why Sena > Yozora.

But Taichi > Arata.

That's like saying 0 > 1!

 

[watervengeance]

Those two are hot but nowhere near Cattleya level. I don't think I can even link pics of her, just search Cattleya Queen's Blade on google and you'll see what I mean.

Pretty disgusting. First result looks like she has two penises where her breasts are.

 

[Ezalc]

Pretty disgusting. First result looks like she has two penises where her breasts are.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Branduil]

Japan's view of animation isn't particularly different from USA's view of animation; cartoons are for families, kids and lonely nerds.

But they have no problem buying manga, so... the question is, what makes it impossible for anime to be viewed the same way as manga?

 

[hellclerk]

The problem with the small low risk scale for lower-key, lower budget releases is that the market has actually shown that when it comes to shows that bomb, even a low price won't save it. I can list a few examples.

The Marvel Anime shows by Madhouse are all being released by Sony Pictures in Japan as complete series sets. Each complete blu-ray set for all 13 episodes of a Marvel Anime series only costs 10,000-12,000yen, depending on the store. How are they selling? They don't even chart so they have to be selling less than a thousand copies each.

Another example would be movies like Sword of the Stranger and Redline. These are movies which don't really go for otaku pandering thing, but are just general action movies. If they were life action, they would probably get a decent amount of attention from mainstream audiences. For these movies, there's usually a very cheap bare-bones DVD version that goes for about 3800yen, specifically meant for low barrier of entry, while the higher end versions with storyboards, tons of special features, etc are regular priced for fans. What's the result? It's not really effective at all in attracting a larger audience. No one cares.

That's why I mentioned before that based on existing market research and sales trend evidence, it is totally pointless to "try" something with an unpopular product to begin with. To really know if they can tap into a MUCH larger audience with a lower price point, they would need to risk it with a major release which is popular enough that mainstream audiences would have actually heard of it and would consider buying it at a lower price. At the same time, the risk with trying this with a release that actually matters is so risky that no one would do it. That's why we're back to square one.

Then do it on a large scale. It's really not that hard to try it for one series and then scale back if it doesn't work. The thing is, no matter what the case, they're making money on those discs. If an attempt to make more money ends with you making slightly less money, then it's no big deal if you decide to revert back to your previous method. Risk is something you have to at least try to stay alive. Like I said earlier, if the analysts at these anime production studios don't see the risks of oversaturating a market for the benefit of a proportionately small and unsustainable core consumers, then they deserve to go under. Better take a relatively small risk now than risk the entire sustainability of the business later.

Where is my "serious content seinen" show this season? The only "serious content seinen" show we got this year was Kaiji S2 and it was nothing but glorified advertisement for the extremely popular manga.

Who do you think watches Usagi Drop? That show positively screams 15-35 female and sensitive male. Or Mirai Nikki? "Cool" enough for your teen viewer and in depth enough for your young adult/adult viewer. Remember, Seinen is a general age demographic, not exactly a genre.

 

[zeroshiki]

That's like saying 0 > 1!

Wait in regards to Sena or Taichi? I can accept Taichi as being a matter of taste but Sena is objectively better than Yozora in every conceivable way.

 

[firehawk12]

Wait in regards to Sena or Taichi? I can accept Taichi as being a matter of taste but Sena is objectively better than Yozora in every conceivable way.

Taichi of course. He is mathematically worse than Arata!

In BokuTomo land, Rika is the best anyway.

 

[zeroshiki]

Taichi of course. He is mathematically worse than Arata!

In BokuTomo land, Rika is the best anyway.

I don't really understand the appeal with Arata. Oh hey he can memorize poems whoop dee doo.

 

[duckroll]

Then do it on a large scale. It's really not that hard to try it for one series and then scale back if it doesn't work. The thing is, no matter what the case, they're making money on those discs. If an attempt to make more money ends with you making slightly less money, then it's no big deal if you decide to revert back to your previous method.

This is the part I don't understand though. Why would you assume that they'll be making money on those discs regardless? The price difference we're looking at for this to be meaningful would be very substantial, so that would have a very big impact.

Risk is something you have to at least try to stay alive. Like I said earlier, if the analysts at these anime production studios don't see the risks of oversaturating a market for the benefit of a proportionately small and unsustainable core consumers, then they deserve to go under. Better take a relatively small risk now than risk the entire sustainability of the business later.

And now you're talking as if these companies are in danger of dying. I already pointed out that the reason they're unwilling to change is because they're actually making money. They have cash cows, they're stable, and anime which counts is actually selling MORE now than it did in the past. Sales are not declining.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't really understand the appeal with Arata. Oh hey he can memorize poems whoop dee doo.

Absence of character. He's not a dick. Also, he's tall, dark and handsome!

 

[Uchip]

Those two are hot but nowhere near Cattleya level. I don't think I can even link pics of her, just search Cattleya Queen's Blade on google and you'll see what I mean.

thats just disturbing

 

[firehawk12]

Haha, nope.

Schoolgirl/boy breast sucking is perfectly normal then!

----

Persona 4 episode 7: Man, they didn't even try with the gay jokes for Kanji's arc. Hey look, it's some effeminate yet muscular gay men. Laugh at them because we assume you're small minded!

 

[7Th]

Who do you think watches Usagi Drop? That show positively screams 15-35 female and sensitive male. Or Mirai Nikki? "Cool" enough for your teen viewer and in depth enough for your young adult/adult viewer. Remember, Seinen is a general age demographic, not exactly a genre.

Usagi Drop is jousei (serialized in Feel Young); Mirai Nikki is shounen (serialized in Shounen Ace). Stop moving the goal posts, bro.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I don't really understand the appeal with Arata. Oh hey he can memorize poems whoop dee doo.

I liked Arata as a youngster. I always root for the sensitive, intelligent, bullied child. But then he grew up to be a dick.