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[reilo]

I thought the Time Warner deal was for 10yrs/$300M (not $3B)


I think you're wrong about the amount. No way TWC is paying the Lakers $300M per year.

Yeah, no way. That's how much CBS and NBC pay to the NFL to broadcast their games. And that's all NFL teams. FOX pays $4.27bil. ESPN pays $8.8bil.

 

[K.Jack]

Whoa.

Damn, that it so shitty, for them. Sorry Grizz-AGE.

The race for the 8th seed just got boiling hot.

 

[ph33nix]

.

lmao holy shit

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I didn't even know Deng was black.

More racist.

 

[SamuraiX-]

"You have not affected the winning percentage of this team."

ROFL!

Holy fucking shit. LOL

 

[The Frankman]

Carmelo "More powerful than Andrea Bargnani, Jose Calderon and Solomon Alabi combined" Anthony.

Wait how is this possible?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4pwgsu5

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Who does Thorpe say Hayward should study? Because if it's Mike Miller or Harpring then that's simultaneously racist and stupid since no one should study Mike Miller except on how not to play basketball.

 

[reilo]

Carmelo "More powerful than Andrea Bargnani, Jose Calderon and Solomon Alabi combined" Anthony.

Wait how is this possible?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4pwgsu5

dat PER

 

[ph33nix]

Who does Thorpe say Hayward should study? Because if it's Mike Miller or Harpring then that's simultaneously racist and stupid since no one should study Mike Miller except on how not to play basketball.

We all know Afflalo is now considered to be both a top-flight wing defender and an excellent 3-point shooter. He has also added assertiveness to his mix and become better all-around because of it. But do you remember what he was like as a rookie after two years of college? In his first season, he made just 10 3-pointers and had a player efficiency rating of 10.07 and a true shooting percentage below 50.

Considering that Hayward has already made 19 3s, makes more than 40 percent of his 3s and has a PER of 8.44 (close to Afflalo's 8.95 PER in his second season), it's not a leap to think that Hayward can become an Afflalo-type player. He has the agility and length to be an excellent wing defender, once he grows into his body and adds strength.

He shouldn't focus on playing up to his lofty draft spot but rather on becoming the best player he can be. Afflalo was a bad player for his first two seasons, but if we did a redraft of the 2007 class, he'd be a surefire lottery pick.

.

 

[goldenticket]

I thought the Time Warner deal was for 10yrs/$300M (not $3B)


I think you're wrong about the amount. No way TWC is paying the Lakers $300M per year.

yeah thats crazy high but when the deal was first announced that 3 billion was floated out there by places like the LA Times. Which even in that article it mentions thats prob not the case but thats the number that stuck in peoples heads. In a different LA Times article it said the current deal with fox sports west gets them 30 mil a year. For time warner to kind of swoop in one would think its a decent amount more then that.

 

[SephCast]

.

Would be funnier in GAF context if Thorpe said Luol Deng.

 

[soundscream]

Ex-Knick Kelenna Azubuike, who was released after the trade deadline, will undergo a second knee surgery 16 months after his initial patella tendon operation.

A Knicks source recently said the initial surgery, which was done when he was with the Warriors, went badly. "They put his knee back together wrong," the source said.

Last night, Azubuike confirmed on Twitter, "The 1st surgery in 09 wasn't done right. Gettin it done right this time!"

Damn

 

[reilo]

Damn

Jesus.

I'm curious though, when he had his first surgery, did the team send out a press release saying he underwent successful surgery?

This is one of those rare times you find out about non-successful ones.

 

[ph33nix]

Would be funnier in GAF context if Thorpe said Luol Deng.

actually,

Watching Aminu is often like watching a talented AAU player in an important tournament. He clearly cares, but not as much as some of the other guys on the court do. The same can be said about his overall work ethic -- it might be solid but it's not where it could be.

Deng was a consummate pro from Day 1 in the NBA. Deadly serious about his craft, he has found a variety of ways to impact the game every season. He's been his team's best scorer in some years, he's been his team's best defender in others, and he's allowed his game to change based on what the coach needed. For example, this season he'll make more 3s than he did in any of his previous six seasons, despite being able to make that shot for the past two years.

Aminu has a higher ceiling than Deng, thanks to terrific rebounding talent and a better deep perimeter shot at a younger age. To reach that ceiling, though, he'll have to up his effort in and out of season, while playing each NBA game as if it will be his last. Bulls teammates have always singled out Deng for his commitment to the team. What will Clippers players say about Aminu in a few years? "Be like Luol" would be a good mission for him.

 

[giri]

All businesses try to cut costs, that's not a shock.

They'd be sold if they're making money but the profits were not as high and the owners are old and want to go away.

As with any business, it's not what they say but rather what they do. NOH was losing money, this was evident by their deals. But other teams? they wouldn't add payroll on like that if they couldn't afford it.

Detroit just a couple games ago donated all gate receipts an in stadium receipts for a game to a charity, something they do every year for 5 years now. They could afford that and their team is considered one of the worst ones right now, financially.

Teams have added payroll and operating costs all the while. This is America. What people say is almost always bullshit. What matters is what people actually are doing. You can't trust the books in this country, either.

Stern claimed doom and gloom last season, if you recall. When more official numbers were crunched this past off-season, his claims ended up being way off and teams actually had more income than the previous year!


edit: as for the maloofs, the kings aren't a problem at all (I even had a friend who once worked for em). The issue is their Vegas investments are losing money badly. That's why they want to move, their entire portfolio sucks right now and the Kings can be improved but not the other stuff.

No, it's not at all about what they do. GM said for years it wasn't making great money and now....... AIG wasn't making money (despite that they declared to everyone, that they were_............. I'm not saying some owners aren't abusing the situation, but you're acting very naively.

And explain to me the business theory behind "damn, i'm going to sell this business making me 5million because it's not making me 10million". Because i'd love to know it.

So far all yours is based on the dr. house addage, everyone lies. Not based on actual events. The grizz owner has for a long time whined about how much money he's had to pour into the business. He's not pouring in his own money, if its turning its own profit.

I agree with the players, the GMs are stupid for continually splashing on sallaries, i disagree that proves they aren't making a loss. If they didn't, they'd basically be fielding D-league squads.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

.

Wow, that was actually logical from Thorpe even if I think Hayward has more offensive skill than Afflalo. Thanks for posting that.

 

[SoulPlaya]

About the Lakers deal. It's a 20 year deal that's being estimated to be at $3 Billion, meaning $150 mil a year.

EDIT: Although, TW says that the estimate is "incorrect".

 

[Rodeo Clown]

I agree with the players, the GMs are stupid for continually splashing on sallaries, i disagree that proves they aren't making a loss. If they didn't, they'd basically be fielding D-league squads.

I'm with this. On one hand, the owners are basically asking to be helped from themselves and that's ridiculous, but I also know the Wolves lost some $20M last season.

Some things legitimately need fixing. The system needs to not be so have and have not. It'll probably end in a hard cap, and I'm alright with that. It fixed hockey. (That and no more ties.)

 

[SamuraiX-]

Wow, that was actually logical from Thorpe even if I think Hayward has more offensive skill than Afflalo.

It's logical to assume a 6'8" wing, with a different skill set than a 6'5" wing who had similar PER numbers compared to the former, can potentially pan out to the extent of the latter?

I think your homerism is showing.

 

[ph33nix]

I think Hayward has more offensive skill than Afflalo.

of course you would

 

[Derwind]

Dat "PER"

=D

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm with this. On one hand, the owners are basically asking to be helped from themselves and that's ridiculous, but I also know the Wolves lost some $20M last season.

Some things legitimately need fixing. The system needs to not be so have and have not. It'll probably end in a hard cap, and I'm alright with that. It fixed hockey. (That and no more ties.)

Isn't Hockey less popular than ever in the states?

Both the NHL and NFL have hard caps, but only the former still has guaranteed contracts. I think the only thing that will save owners from themselves is getting rid of guaranteed deals; the ability to cut guys at the beginning of the off-season, effectively offloading their contracts. It will cut down on "contract year" effort from decent players, and promote frontloading of contracts so that teams can shed salary if their players don't pan out or become injured.

At the very least, you'd never see deals as bad as Arenas', Redd's, or Kirilenko's preventing a team from improving for years at a time. A hard cap doesn't prevent bad contracts, just the number one GM can accumulate at any given time. They'd have to accept full responsibility at that point.

 

[AgentChris]

Damn

Ouch.

 

[charsace]

Wow, that was actually logical from Thorpe even if I think Hayward has more offensive skill than Afflalo. Thanks for posting that.

I don't think its logical. Hayward is an iso player that can create off the dribble. Two different players. Maybe they can be similar defenders?

 

[Rodeo Clown]

Isn't Hockey less popular than ever in the states?

The NHL has always been a niche sport. It convinced itself it wasn't and overexpanded. But if I remember right, the ratings for last season's NHL playoffs were the best they've been in a long time and their primary TV partner is Versus. So they're doing something right.

But my point was more that the NHL's hard cap has resulted in something closer to parity than has ever existed in the NBA. I'd love that.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's logical to assume a 6'8" wing, with a different skill set than a 6'5" wing who had similar PER numbers compared to the former, can potentially pan out to the extent of the latter?

I think your homerism is showing.

Both are great three point shooters who defend very well and are pretty clutch.

I don't think its logical. Hayward is an iso player that can create off the dribble. Two different players. Maybe they can be similar defenders?

Hayward is years away from being able to iso effectively. He needs to tighten up his handle, get a pump fake, and get a pull-up jumper and he won't be able to work on any of those things this Summer because he has to work on his finishing skills first. I think he could become a scary iso player eventually though.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

of course you would

Hayward is MUCH better off the dribble than Afflalo.

 

[ph33nix]

Hayward is MUCH better off the dribble than Afflalo.

hey so I don't know if you've seen this but

woo lockout here we come!

 

[Red Blaster]

Dat "PER"

=D

HIBACHI IS STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT

 

[Jeff-DSA]

hey so I don't know if you've seen this but

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/03/21/0321-chad-henne-drag-launch-credit.jpg

woo lockout here we come!

Why is he doing this to us? He better be working on his accuracy this (soon to be extended) offseason and not just screwing around.

 

[diehard]

Why is he doing this to us? He better be working on his accuracy this (soon to be extended) offseason and not just screwing around.

am i the only one who doesn't know who that is?

Oh. Henne. ..Dolphins lost their great white hype when they let Beck go.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Sullinger not declaring for the draft, awesome. He was never going to be picked by the Jazz since he's a terrible fit, but he's still a player who could occupy other slots to drop other guys to the Jazz. Brandon Knight is now the 7th best player in this class and he will never be a starter in the NBA. Jazz need to get Irving or Valanciunas with the Nets' pick or it's going to be someone terrible.

edit: Well, terrible is a bit of a stretch, but I do think Knight will never be a starter in the NBA and he might top the Jazz's Big Board for the 6th pick at this point. Even a really good bench player isn't what you want at 6.

 

[diehard]

Jazz need a shooter. Who is the best shooter out there? Hmmmmm...

 

[giri]

Jazz need a shooter. Who is the best shooter out there? Hmmmmm...

Jazz need everything but a PF.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Jazz need a shooter. Who is the best shooter out there? Hmmmmm...

Jimmer will still be on the board at 12 even with Barnes and Sullinger going back to school.

Jazz need everything but a PF.

Our SFs are going to be awesome as well, now we just need 3 positions, take that.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Our SFs are going to be awesome as well, now we just need 3 positions, take that.

Harris is good enough at PG if he stays healthy. We really just need some reliable shooters and slashers.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Can someone tell me how OKC had a "model" for rebuilding? They lucked into Durant and then picked Westbrook, that was the entire model/plan unless you count trading Ray Allen for Jeff Green in which case it's not that amazing of a model. I've seen tons of people mentioning it today and I don't see how they had a model.

 

[DCX]

Can someone tell me how OKC had a "model" for rebuilding? They lucked into Durant and then picked Westbrook, that was the entire model/plan unless you count trading Ray Allen for Jeff Green in which case it's not that amazing of a model. I've seen tons of people mentioning it today and I don't see how they had a model.

True. Most do it through free agency or trades not solely drafting. Which is the "model " they speak of.

DCX

 

[reilo]

Can someone tell me how OKC had a "model" for rebuilding? They lucked into Durant and then picked Westbrook, that was the entire model/plan unless you count trading Ray Allen for Jeff Green in which case it's not that amazing of a model. I've seen tons of people mentioning it today and I don't see how they had a model.

Not only that, but the two years prior to the Thunder making the playoffs, it was called the "Portland" model. Before that, ugh, I don't know, the "Spurs" model? There's so many ways to look at really good and even championship teams and factually say that they built through the draft. Hell, the 90s Bulls two best players were drafted by the Bulls. Ditto to the Jazz and Rockets and late 80s early 90s Blazers teams. The only player from the 1986 Celtics' top three players that didn't play his entire career in Boston was Parish. Bird and McHale were both drafted. So was Danny Ainge.

It's just an idiotic thing for the media to talk about.

 

[lawlohwhat]

Not only that, but the two years prior to the Thunder making the playoffs, it was called the "Portland" model. Before that, ugh, I don't know, the "Spurs" model? There's so many ways to look at really good and even championship teams and factually say that they built through the draft. Hell, the 90s Bulls two best players were drafted by the Bulls. Ditto to the Jazz and Rockets and late 80s early 90s Blazers teams. The only player from the 1986 Celtics' top three players that didn't play his entire career in Boston was Parish. Bird and McHale were both drafted. So was Danny Ainge.

It's just an idiotic thing for the media to talk about.

seems like it's just an espn bullet point antithesis to the heat signings

 

[reilo]

seems like it's just an espn bullet point antithesis to the heat signings

That's a really good way of putting it.

 

[giri]

Can someone tell me how OKC had a "model" for rebuilding? They lucked into Durant and then picked Westbrook, that was the entire model/plan unless you count trading Ray Allen for Jeff Green in which case it's not that amazing of a model. I've seen tons of people mentioning it today and I don't see how they had a model.

Sure, they had a model of trading anythnig and everything to get multiple draft picks over a short period of time, as high as possible. They weren't the first, but they did it well.

They have to be over a short period of time, so that when you dont have talent, your pick is very high, but once you get a durant you're not stuck in the middle of never having a pick good enough to add another player.

Multiple in one year, for the above reason, and because drafting isn't an exact science.

Why does it get spat into peoples faces a lot? because there's a lot of teams that are happy to run in mediocrity (Hi Suns!) just to avoid sucking for a year or two and not making as much $$$. OKC / Sonics actually had a plan, and executed it well.

There's also a lot of teams afraid to trade away ALL talent. I'm not sure what year these two were drafted/wound up in Washington, but imagine if the wiz had've got rid of mcgee & blatche and got wall, aminu, & DMC? people would be a lot more optimistic about their future.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Seattle didn't trade away their talent until after they got Durant, they were just a terrible drafting team for the years previously with Saer "The worst draft pick of all time" Sene being the final nail leading to them being a 25 win team and putting them in position for Durant. They traded Ray for Jeff Green which was horrible and got nothing for Roided Shard.

 

[Oozer3993]

On a related note to this discussion of the Thunder, the CPU GMs in The Association in NBA 2K10 were apparently modeled after David Kahn. As head of the Thunder, I swindled the Cavs (Harden for AP and two 1sts) and the Nets (Collison, Nate Robinson, & a 1st for Brook Lopez and 2 firsts). I just needed to share that with someone.

I didn't see this posted yet and thought NBA-GAF would get a kick out of it: Andrew Mooney, of the Harvard Sports Analysis Collective, went through and created a statistical breakdown of the movie Space Jam. Some highlights:

But the Tunes uncork a 48-2 run in the second half to pull within two points late in the fourth quarter. The dearth of offensive production by the Monstars during this stretch is puzzling. Turnovers? Did they abandon the three-point-line dunk? The answer no doubt lies on the cutting-room floor. There's an equally confusing run at the end of the game. As paramedics inflate Jordan's assistant Stan Podolak following his lone bucket, the scoreboard clearly shows the Monstars ahead 77-67 with 10 seconds remaining. Yet following his treatment and the surprise entrance of Bill Murray, the score has changed to 77-76 with no time having elapsed. Perhaps Marvin the Martian, the head official, got fed up with the Monstars' rugged defense—they injured all but four of the players on the original Tunes roster—and issued a slew of technical fouls. We'll never know. All we know is that the game ends on Jordan's dramatic, half-court arm-stretching dunk as time expires. How about that: The team with the widest appeal and most marketable superstar wins the big game by some mysterious contrivance. You might say this is ridiculous. I call it verisimilitude.

• Tunes scored 132 points per 100 possessions. The Monstars scored 154. That's obviously impossible, since the team with the higher offensive efficiency is pretty much by definition the team that wins the game. The issue is selection bias — we see more successful Monstars' possessions in the movie. The other issue is that the movie doesn't make any sense.

• Jordan's usage rate is 44 percent, meaning he used 44 percent of his team's possessions. For comparison's sake, the NBA single-season record is Kobe's 39 percent in 2006. MJ is second at 38 percent. There were plenty of games in which Jordan actually exceeded that 44 percent usage rate. In Game 6 of the 1998 Finals, for instance, he checked in at 55 percent. This is probably the second-most realistic part of the movie.

More at the source.

 

[giri]

Seattle didn't trade away their talent until after they got Durant, they were just a terrible drafting team for the years previously with Saer "The worst draft pick of all time" Sene being the final nail leading to them being a 25 win team and putting them in position for Durant. They traded Ray for Jeff Green which was horrible and got nothing for Roided Shard.

I thought that by then, the new GM was in place? (as in, the new GM drafted KD).

I don't remember exactly though.

 

[Boombloxer]

On a related note to this discussion of the Thunder, the CPU GMs in The Association in NBA 2K10 were apparently modeled after David Kahn. As head of the Thunder, I swindled the Cavs (Harden for AP and two 1sts) and the Nets (Collison, Nate Robinson, & a 1st for Brook Lopez and 2 firsts). I just needed to share that with someone.

I didn't see this posted yet and thought NBA-GAF would get a kick out of it: Andrew Mooney, of the Harvard Sports Analysis Collective, went through and created a statistical breakdown of the movie Space Jam. Some highlights:





More at the source.

:lol

 

[jobber]

And who is this league is a "god-like coach" thats willing to take the reigns? Phil is retiring, Doc Rivers is retiring, Sloan is through with basketball, Riley is ours, Popovich is gonna retire a Spur

BAM

 

[Black Mamba]

Yeah, no way. That's how much CBS and NBC pay to the NFL to broadcast their games. And that's all NFL teams. FOX pays $4.27bil. ESPN pays $8.8bil.

Sorry, it's a 20 year deal, not 10. So that's $150 mil a year (it is believed to be worth $3billion. I bet incentives are part of it to get that high, though). I goofed, thought it was 10 years.

No, it's not at all about what they do. GM said for years it wasn't making great money and now....... AIG wasn't making money (despite that they declared to everyone, that they were_............. I'm not saying some owners aren't abusing the situation, but you're acting very naively.

And explain to me the business theory behind "damn, i'm going to sell this business making me 5million because it's not making me 10million". Because i'd love to know it.

So far all yours is based on the dr. house addage, everyone lies. Not based on actual events. The grizz owner has for a long time whined about how much money he's had to pour into the business. He's not pouring in his own money, if its turning its own profit.

I agree with the players, the GMs are stupid for continually splashing on sallaries, i disagree that proves they aren't making a loss. If they didn't, they'd basically be fielding D-league squads.

Your examples are proving my point.

As for the $5mil to $10 mil, it's about opportunity cost. Why spent so much money and resources to get a 2% return when you can get a 7% return elsewhere, etc.

Again, last year the owners and Stern claimed massive losses, bigger than this year's claims. When the calculations went through, the league made more money than the previous season. I don't know how it is in Australia or anywhere else, but in America you can do a lot of shady things to make a profit seem like a loss.

John Vrooman, a professor in sports economics at Vanderbilt University, said that the revenue numbers for the League should be accurate because they’re used to determine basketball-related income, which helps determine the following season’s salary cap. The problem might lie on the cost side.

“Acceptable accounting costs include depreciation of 50 percent of the franchise price in the first five years of ownership, salaries paid to ownership and families, interest on ownership loans to the franchise and fees paid to management companies that have the same team owners,” Vrooman wrote in an e-mail message.

He added that when owners in all sports leagues complain about the costs of running their team, people remain skeptical until they “see behind the smoke and mirrors,” as Vrooman wrote. “Sports accountants are paid to turn profits into losses for federal/state tax shelters but also for cries of poverty when posturing for public sentiment in the collective bargaining process,” Vrooman said.

Furthermore, Washington Wizards were sold for $500 million and Nets for $200 million. There is no way these franchises would be bought for this much if they were hemorrhaging money. For comparison's sake, look at how Newsweek was sold. New Orleans, however, is truly losing money which is why no one wanted it. Stern has claimed that right now 10-15 teams are losing money, yet only 2 teams are up for sale!

When it comes to actual profit making, asset prices mean more than accounting.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Gordon Hayward wants a rat for his birthday, I'm not sure what this means for his future.

 

[giri]

Sorry, it's a 20 year deal, not 10. So that's $150 mil a year (it is believed to be worth $3billion. I bet incentives are part of it to get that high, though). I goofed, thought it was 10 years.



Your examples are proving my point.

As for the $5mil to $10 mil, it's about opportunity cost. Why spent so much money and resources to get a 2% return when you can get a 7% return elsewhere, etc.

Again, last year the owners and Stern claimed massive losses, bigger than this year's claims. When the calculations went through, the league made more money than the previous season. I don't know how it is in Australia or anywhere else, but in America you can do a lot of shady things to make a profit seem like a loss.



Furthermore, Washington Wizards were sold for $500 million and Nets for $200 million. There is no way these franchises would be bought for this much if they were hemorrhaging money. For comparison's sake, look at how Newsweek was sold. New Orleans, however, is truly losing money which is why no one wanted it. Stern has claimed that right now 10-15 teams are losing money, yet only 2 teams are up for sale!

When it comes to actual profit making, asset prices mean more than accounting.

My examples don't prove your point. Your point is that they lie about making money, but tell the truth with their actions. Which those companies prove other wise, AIG and GM were actually making large losses, but continued to spend spend spend. I don't know how you intepret examples in america...

It depends whose calculations you want to believe. I prefer to believe the owners, as the players assocation refused to account on the books for the repayments of loans, and acrewal of interest on the loans as net out goings, saying they had nothing to do with the accounting of the franchise (which is flat out retarded). It's a big reason i can't take anything the PA says seriously on the topic. Yes, there are ways to make money for your self, but net the franchise a loss. And they could all be cooking their books or... they could be selling.

You don't sell an asset that grows in value due to a extremely limited supply (which there is of NBA franchises) and is turning a good profit, just for the hell of it. They aren't bought as business investments by most of these guys. That doesn't mean they want to lose money, and have it turn into a huge sink hole.

200M for an NBA team isn't a lot, NOH who ARE strugling and losing money, sold for 300M, whats that figure of 200M mean then? (I know it's only for a majority share, not the whole team). But if they were all such proven long term investments making regular annual profit other companies would be lining up to buy them.

Just because a house in hollywood sold for 500M, doesn't mean thats what it cost to build and maintain, it just means that's its current market value.