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2012 NBA Offseason |OT2| Lakers Fans Despise Freedom.

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Cloudy

Banned
He was marked as an immediate risk and got a max that kept The Knicks from doing anything meaningful. They now can do very little to bolster their roster, Lin's deal didn't take them out of FA bidding, they were already out of them.

Amare is still a top player. I dunno why people are talking like he's a bum. Yeah he's untradeable but he is still an impact player.

And it's not about FA bidding. It's about paying $40+ mil in 2014-2015 for one guy who might not even be the best PG on your team. Anyone bashing the Knicks for refusing to do that is ridiculous IMO
 
Amare is still a top player. I dunno why people are talking like he's a bum. Yeah he's untradeable but he is still an impact player.

And it's not about FA bidding. It's about paying $40+ mil in 2014-2015 for one guy who might not even be the best PG on your team. Anyone bashing the Knicks for refusing to do that is ridiculous IMO
top player? did you not see him play for the past two seasons?
 
Honestly NOT making a formal offer is the right thing to do when you have the option of matching. Many in the NBA are still skeptical of him as a starter and there's no way they could have anticipated Houston making such an outrageous offer (It is pretty telling that no other team had real interest). His market value was hard to gauge because it's not just based on court production.

So you let Morey negotiate for you? Are you crazy? Have you seen how he operates? The Knicks even told Lin he was going to be the starter upfront.

SI said:
"Woodson was saying, 'You're going to be a starter, you're going to be a big part of the team,'" Lin says. "I came away really excited."

I just can't agree that they had no way to anticipate this. Pretty much the entire news world figured out Houston would make an offer on Lin given their past with Yao and Morey's remorseful comments during the season. The smart move for the Knicks would have been to actually make him an offer early, because it's pretty clear Lin liked the city enough to probably take good money over great money.

SI said:
(and Lin's camp says they did not communicate anything to the Knicks before an offer sheet was actually signed)

Comments on the NY Daily News aside, I'm willing to believe this. Lin didn't sign his offer right away, so Morey knew there was hesitation. The Knicks clearly were happy to drag this out over the summer, so why not up your offer? Why not make the obvious poison-pill deal to prove how much you want Lin, and hurt the Knicks if it doesn't work out? Morey had to taste blood in the water when the Knicks focused on signing Kidd first.
 

Flash

Member
Amare is still a top player. I dunno why people are talking like he's a bum. Yeah he's untradeable but he is still an impact player.

And it's not about FA bidding. It's about paying $40+ mil in 2014-2015 for one guy who might not even be the best PG on your team. Anyone bashing the Knicks for refusing to do that is ridiculous IMO

Amare is the worst kind of player for the reasons you stated. He pretty much is a bum but he isn't cause he was and should be a top PF in the league.

So this means that he'll be expected to turn this team into contenders, and when given the ball he'll be expected to produce. In reality the guy is pretty much done and is only going to kill the ball. Not to mention he's pretty much a system player... he looked his best this season with Lin and D'antoni while Melo was out for a reason.
 

charsace

Member
Actually, the ironic bit is that Dolan was one of those guys that wanted to keep the old CBA because it benefited him the most.

If anything, Dolan letting Lin go for (supposed) tax reasons means that the new CBA is working in some form: the big markets aren't willing to have a $100mil payroll anymore.

Of course that does not excuse the idiocy that was not amnestying Amare and all the other contracts.

But it wasn't the money. And if Dolan backs you he will be your friend for life. Just look at Isiah, Allan Houston, Herb Williams and Larry Johnson.
 

Bowser

Member
Amare is still a top player. I dunno why people are talking like he's a bum. Yeah he's untradeable but he is still an impact player.

And it's not about FA bidding. It's about paying $40+ mil in 2014-2015 for one guy who might not even be the best PG on your team. Anyone bashing the Knicks for refusing to do that is ridiculous IMO

So you're ok with paying that much for 3 guys who are totally mediocre (2 of whom probably won't even be playing still by then)?

John Hollinger said:
The luxury tax hit on Lin's $14.9 million salary in 2014-15 was going to be enormous; depending on your assumptions, it was likely to end up close to $30 million, bringing the total cost of employing Lin that season to $45 million. You could argue that Stoudemire or Anthony's contract is costing just as much, so it's not fair to say that Lin's deal is the one pushing them over. But given the money they've already sunk, an economist would rightly describe the $45 million figure in 2014-15 as the marginal cost of matching the Lin deal.

The Knicks, as our Larry Coon pointed out, could have reduced that bill to an extent by using the stretch provision on Lin, but that's almost as bad -- it's perhaps $25 million instead of $45 million, depending on which years the Knicks are in the tax, but you're paying Lin not to play and still need to spend more money (and tax) on somebody to play point guard.

Matching Fields and Lin would have produced an even more obscene wage bill that year; the Knicks' starting backcourt would have cost around $75 million in salary and tax, which is more than nearly every team's payroll in the NBA right now.

But again, the Knicks operated like this wasn't a problem. The tax on Lin's deal might be much easier to handle if they weren't also paying a combined $7.2 million in guaranteed money to Camby, Kidd and Felton that season, even though the first two will be in their 40s and the third might be 300 pounds by then. That's half of Lin's 2014-15 salary and nearly two-thirds of his tax hit right there, on players who likely will give the Knicks little or nothing that season.

That's not all: In the preceding two years, Camby, Felton, and Kidd will make $21 million to Lin's $10 million, and the Knicks are in the tax both seasons. Do the math and you'll see that the Knicks will pay just as much to Camby, Felton and Kidd over the next three seasons as they would have paid for Lin, even allowing for the two minimum salary players that would replace Camby and one of the guards.

I'll take a 23 year old potential star point guard that brings a whole new set of fans and marketing dollars over two over the hill "vets" and a guy who can't even keep himself in shape when that's basically his only job.
 
I can think of 20+ PGs better than Lin. I can't do the same with Amare. He is a top player when he gets his touches and that should be there with Felton and Kidd
i believe his avg was below 20. he was getting blocked by raptor scrubs easily,no jump shot and literally lets guys pass right by without any attempt.
 
Gery Woelfel: Chatter continues Andrew Bynum will wind up being dealt to Cavs in multi-team, multi-player trade. now
Tony Mejia: Despite talks of #Lakers being Howard's destination, the chances of that has been and continues to be unlikely. Andrew Bynum wants to stay. 3 minutes ago
fuck you clown. you dont deserve to be a laker with your shitty attitude.
 

Cloudy

Banned
The smart move for the Knicks would have been to actually make him an offer early, because it's pretty clear Lin liked the city enough to probably take good money over great money.

If they thought this could have happened, they'd have signed him to a deal when he got hurt during the season and he'd have signed it right away. They didn't and let him go on the market assuming that any offer he got would be matchable. They assumed wrong but I don't think it was the wrong thing to do.

Again, no other team went after him. That tells me a bit of what the talent evaluators think. They may be wrong but I doubt it...
 

Reave

Member
Chatter continues Andrew Bynum will wind up being dealt to Cavs in multi-team, multi-player trade.

On again, off again. Ugh.

Not sure if that tweet has anything to do with this, but ESPN just put something up about about a "new team" in the running for Dwight Howard, and that Ric Bucher will be talking about it at 2:05 EST.
 

Cloudy

Banned
So you're ok with paying that much for 3 guys who are totally mediocre (2 of whom probably won't even be playing still by then)?

They acquired Camby via S&T and they badly needed another big. Kidd and Felton are signed to cheap contracts by NBA standards. Yes, it makes sense to pay luxury tax for those 3 guys and NOT make it worse by signing Lin to a ridiculous deal
 

Bowser

Member
Hollinger's conclusion sums it all up nicely:

All of this, however, gets back to one simple truth: The Knicks stopped following their own script just as the play reached its climax. It's great that they care about money and fit, but if that's the case they might have wanted to heed their own advice at some point between the Melo trade and yesterday.
 

Flash

Member
If they though this could have happened, they'd have signed him to a deal when he got hurt during the season and he'd have signed it right away. They didn't and let him go on the market assuming that any offer he got would be matchable. They assumed wrong but I don't think it was the wrong thing to do.

Again, no other team went after him. That tells me a bit of what the talent evaluators think. They may be wrong but I doubt it...

why would they think that? The guy was the hottest commodity in the NBA last year. The guys jersey sales were unbelievable and the public interest in the NBA and Knicks was high. If you're gonna overpay a player, it might as well be someone who adds to the bottom line. Even though I don't think he deserves that money from a basketball perspective, he absolutely deserves contract (and possibly even more, especially from the Knicks) from a business stand point.

And what the fuck was that bullshit about Knicks players being resentful if NYC matched. WTF? why the hell should these guys care about another guy trying to get paid. Idiots.
 

Owzers

Member
I'd take Kidd, and overweight Felton, and an old Camby over Lin. Lin would have been best off the bench and the Knicks seem like they were going to refuse to do that, so who wants Lin walking the ball down the court just to pass it to Melo as he tries to shoot over two people from the wing? A larger, chunkier point guard could do that.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
They need to get rid of SAS on First Take. He's become a caricature of himself, and he talks way too much over other people. He's trying to turn every debate into a discussion about himself.
 

Reave

Member
They need to get rid of SAS on First Take. He's become a caricature of himself, and he talks way too much over other people. He's trying to turn every debate into a discussion about himself.

What bugged me more than that is how he acted like HE was the one who broke the story about Lin going to Houston; as if the mountains of tweets we saw before he came on Sportscenter the next morning didn't happen.
 

Cloudy

Banned
why would they think that? The guy was the hottest commodity in the NBA last year. The guys jersey sales were unbelievable and the public interest in the NBA and Knicks was high.

They were right though. Again, only ONE team went after him seriously
 
I don't know how true the rumor about Dwight sitting the whole year but can the Magic allow him to show up in the locker room after all this? There are rumors of Jameer and others turning on him and I heard Big Baby brush him off at the Summer League game. Shit would be so intense.

They need to get rid of SAS on First Take. He's become a caricature of himself, and he talks way too much over other people. He's trying to turn every debate into a discussion about himself.

Man how many times a week do you bitch about FT and/or SAS a week. That show is bad for your health man.
 

Flash

Member
They were right though. Again, only ONE team went after him seriously

I'm sure part of it was everyone thought the Knicks would match anything. I know that the Raptors (another city with a large Asian population) had interest as well.
 

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
So you're ok with paying that much for 3 guys who are totally mediocre (2 of whom probably won't even be playing still by then)?

I'll take a 23 year old potential star point guard that brings a whole new set of fans and marketing dollars over two over the hill "vets" and a guy who can't even keep himself in shape when that's basically his only job.

If Camby plays like he did last year he could be the best backup Center in the league next year. Also Camby can play PF allowing the knicks to sit Amare down when they need defense, I mean realistically Camby could start on about 10 teams right now if he had wanted. And him backing Tyson means when Tyson get in foul trouble the Knicks still have a center anchoring the defense

Kidd obviously is out of place now that Lin is gone but the intention was for him to mentor Lin but even then he is better than TD or Bibby as a backup PG. Kidd is old but he still has something left in the tank and his style hasn't been about athleticism for years.

They acquired Camby via S&T and they badly needed another big. Kidd and Felton are signed to cheap contracts by NBA standards. Yes, it makes sense to pay luxury tax for those 3 guys and NOT make it worse by signing Lin to a ridiculous deal

Exactly its called depth. there are a lot of team whose depth is made of younger player who arguably are worse than Camby or Kidd. Felton is a big question mark but like I said before all he needs to do is be a stable PG and the knicks should be able get a higher seed this year. Lin's leaving sucks but its not like he was Lebron and the Knicks are the Cavs.
 
Nash/Blake/Morris
Mamba/Glock/Eyenga
MWP/Ebanks/SUPREME1
Pau/Jamison/McRoberts
Dwight/Hill/CAPSTEAM

Best duo of all time:

Magic-and-Kareem.jpg
 
My only issue with Lin is the rumor that re-worked the original Houston offer after NY agreed to match. That's bullshit if true and any NY fan has a right to be mad at him for that.

That's the Knicks being dumb then. They should've just kept their mouth shut until they received the actual contract instead of proclaiming to the world that they'd match any offer that came their way. That's just asking to be outbid..
 
So now Orlando is going to get Varajeo and Cleveland bynum?

From ESPN.com:

One source familiar with the talks, though, cautioned to not make too much of that shift just yet.

The Cavaliers would land Lakers center Andrew Bynum for a package of draft picks and veteran power forward Anderson Varejao, according to one league source. The Lakers would receive Howard for Bynum. Orlando would get Varejao and draft picks. The source said this was merely the framework of a deal being discussed.

Not buying this. This shit needs to end, already
 
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