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2012 NBA Offseason |OT3| The Barclays Center is covered in rust

He averaged 19 mpg against ORL and 25 mpg against BOS, LO averaged 27 mpg against BOS.

LO got those minutes because he could produce more consistently than Bynum who was plagued with injuries and immature on the court, Bynum was what 21 or 22 during those two chips? Dwight being able to play 40+ as a legit defensive C kind of negates the need of a LO type to pick up forward duties so our PF can play C.

Yes. Howard is good enough to negate most of our deficiencies.
People have to remember how many mistakes he had to erase in Orlando, without another 7-footer beside him and worse players at every other position.

We'll be much, much better.
Arguing otherwise for the sake of conjecture is pretty silly.
 

giri

Member
You have every right to be ecstatic by the nash pickup but please don't act like him being a liability on defense is something you can just brush off because of Howard.

Dwight covered for a defensively horrible pg, sg, and sf in orlando.

all at the same time.

He's pretty good you know.
 

The M.O.B

Member
A15eiOxCMAAvIdT.jpg
 

h3ro

Member
Some motherfucker pulled a gun on me two blocks from a bodega. Bitch checked my pockets. Of course I'm not walking around with bills on me. So I laughed at him and told him, "Nigga, you wasting your time." Then his bitchass stole me. Holiday and shit and dudes are still grimey. If I was younger I would pay his punk ass back. Good thing dude punched like a limp wristed bitch because I can't deal with visible damage to my face right now.
Glad you're ok man. Thankful it didn't escalate.


D Wayne sway

afEXw.jpg
 

Triple U

Banned
Dwight covered for a defensively horrible pg, sg, and sf in orlando.

all at the same time.

He's pretty good you know.

Except when he didn't. He's the best but he can't be everywhere on the court.

Not all at the same time.

Now he has to cover for the oldest team in the league.

You talk all the shit about how horrible rondo is on O but he dropped 28 on them....
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Except when he didn't. He's the best but he can't be everywhere on the court.

Not all at the same time.

Now he has to cover for the oldest team in the league.

You talk all the shit about how horrible rondo is on O but he dropped 28 on them....

That's why he's one of the most important defenders the league has seen.

Dwight's impact goes beyond a few blocked shots here and there. Dude is the definition of a defensive anchor.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Yeah and those same 2, 3 and 4 showed they can get ran of a gym with the quickness..

LA's defense was never an issue last year. Hell, it was one of the few things that didn't suffer from inconsistency on that team.
 
Yeah and those same 2, 3 and 4 showed they can get ran of a gym with the quickness..

Their defense was great at the beginning of the year and by the end of the year became...average to above average. They lost due to shitty offense, Kobe dominating the ball, Pau not being utilized properly and Bynum not caring every now and then.....enter Steve Nash and Dwight Howard.
 
Their defense was great at the beginning of the year and by the end of the year became...average to above average. They lost due to shitty offense, Kobe dominating the ball, Pau not being utilized properly and Bynum not caring every now and then.....enter Steve Nash and Dwight Howard.
do you think kobe will shoot less though? i dont see it.
 

giri

Member
Except when he didn't. He's the best but he can't be everywhere on the court.

Not all at the same time.

Now he has to cover for the oldest team in the league.

You talk all the shit about how horrible rondo is on O but he dropped 28 on them....

wait

what

Orlando was constantly one of the best defensive teams in the entire league despite having only one defender on the court. Dwight.

WTF are you going on about now?

I may consider dwight an incomplete and flawed offensive player. But he's the best defender in the league and has been for about 5 years.

He's basically the pippen of centers.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Yeah it was a huge problem when they faced OKC.

The issue vs OKC wasn't so much the defense though. It was the fact that LA's offense sputters along like hell. Anytime you're relying on Ron Artest for scoring in any facet, you're wrong.

Even if you call Nash worthless on defense - on the same level as Ramon and Blake - it impossible really understate what all a healthy Dwight brings to any team in the league.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Dwight is the most underrated player in the league defensively.

I can buy the offensive arguments against him, maybe, its true hes got a bunch of flaws in his game (like he has obvious limitations in end of game situations) and that the Magic offense scored more points when he was on the bench, but he is by far the best defensive player in the league, the Magic would be bottom 5 in the league every single year without him and yet with him were a top 5 defense in the league. Every single season.
 
do you think kobe will shoot less though? i dont see it.

Kobe's game can work with a ball dominate PG, he'll always be in love with shooting, but he'll be in better position and have less defensive pressure. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll allow Nash to be Nash. We'll see when the season starts, any argument for either side is just guessing.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Dwight is the most underrated player in the league defensively.

I can buy the offensive arguments against him, maybe, its true hes got a bunch of flaws in his game (like he has obvious limitations in end of game situations) and that the Magic offense scored more points when he was on the bench, but he is by far the best defensive player in the league, the Magic would be bottom 5 in the league every single year without him and yet with him were a top 5 defense in the league. Every single season.

gtfo..

no...

not buying this...
 

Triple U

Banned
The issue vs OKC wasn't so much the defense though. It was the fact that LA's offense sputters along like hell. Anytime you're relying on Ron Artest for scoring in any facet, you're wrong.

Even if you call Nash worthless on defense - on the same level as Ramon and Blake - it impossible really understate what all a healthy Dwight brings to any team in the league.

It very well was the defense.

Anytime you let their second best player average 25 on 49%(including a 37pt game) you're probably gonna lose.

Dwight is a godsend for their D, don't get me wrong. Still, he can't do everything. He aint superman. Him and Ron still have their hands full out west.

The best players never really struggle against him.


Call me crazy but the Lakers still are far from out of the woods in the West.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Eh, in a lot of ways, he is. People forget just how much he does.

I mean, that anyone else but him gets a dpoty first vote is sort of silly.

nope.. in no way anything people have said about D12 makes him underrated.. before LBJ went to the Heat ESPN only talked about LBJ D12 and Melo 24/7 until they lost..
 
I would probably go with Rubio, Hayward, and Diaw as the most underrated defenders in the NBA since some think those guys are bad defensively whereas they're actually good to great defenders, but I can see the argument for Dwight. He's considered a great defender, but he not really an all-time great defender and he could easily be viewed as one.
 

Triple U

Banned
I would probably go with Rubio, Hayward, and Diaw as the most underrated defenders in the NBA since some think those guys are bad defensively whereas they're actually good to great defenders, but I can see the argument for Dwight. He's considered a great defender, but he not really an all-time great defender and he could easily be viewed as one.

He isn't dude cmon. He can't defend all-time greats, old-shaq used to shit on him...
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
He isn't dude cmon. He can't defend all-time greats, old-shaq used to shit on him...

People aren't referring to his man defense in the post. They're talking specifically about his team defense. Dude may even be better than Duncan in that regard.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
He isn't dude cmon. He can't defend all-time greats, old-shaq used to shit on him...
It's funny because he said he isn't an all time great

And you can count the number of good low post players today on one hand
 

Triple U

Banned
People aren't referring to his man defense in the post. They're talking specifically about his team defense. Dude may even be better than Duncan in that regard.

All-time great defenders are great in all regards of defense. If you want to call him an all-time help defender then say that. Saying he is the Pippen of Centers is well........
 

giri

Member
nope.. in no way anything people have said about D12 makes him underrated.. before LBJ went to the Heat ESPN only talked about LBJ D12 and Melo 24/7 until they lost..

Defensively?

ESPN always ran LBJ for DPOTY campaigns when, realistically, he's no where near what D12 brings defensively.

Same as the josh smith for DPOTY campaigns.

Both are good to great defenders, but dwight is probably up there on pippen tier.


All-time great defenders are great in all regards of defense. If you want to call him an all-time help defender then say that. Saying he is the Pippen of Centers is well........

What?

No they aren't

KG is an all time great defender. But he's not a brilliant post defender.

Thats not me hating on KG, thats just truth.
 

Triple U

Banned
It's funny because he said he isn't an all time great

And you can count the number of good low post players today on one hand

I think he meant he isn't seen as an all-time defender but could easily be viewed as one. The whole underrated thing.

Otherwise his post doesn't make sense to me.
 
All-time great defenders are great in all regards of defense. If you want to call him an all-time help defender then say that. Saying he is the Pippen of Centers is well........

Ehh, Magic is considered one of the three best offensive players of all time and his jumper was not particularly good.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
All-time great defenders are great in all regards of defense. If you want to call him an all-time help defender then say that. Saying he is the Pippen of Centers is well........

The first, played out knock that people bring against Dwight in this repetitive argument is "Well, Dwight would've been killed by Xhofplayer!"

He never got to play against any - so why even harp on that? Instead, we can look directly at what he is doing which is some of the best pnr defense the league has ever seen and effecting the perimeter more than any center in history despite the fact that the league is now more perimeter oriented than ever. That is what people are referring to when they speak about Dwight being a great.
What?

No they aren't

KG is an all time great defender. But he's not a brilliant post defender.

Thats not me hating on KG, thats just truth.

True. KG wasn't having any part of any part of banging around down low. Still managed to create an amazing defense for Boston and Minnesota.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Defensively?

ESPN always ran LBJ for DPOTY campaigns when, realistically, he's no where near what D12 brings defensively.

Same as the josh smith for DPOTY campaigns.

Both are good to great defenders, but dwight is probably up there on pippen tier.

He is easily one of the most talked about player in NBA and he is underrated? Yeah not buying that

Also pip could mark the 1 - 4

D12 does change games with his D
But I won't mention him with the mountain or dream
Shit prime TD was so much on D than him

Underrated lol
 
It very well was the defense.

Anytime you let their second best player average 25 on 49%(including a 37pt game) you're probably gonna lose.

Dwight is a godsend for their D, don't get me wrong. Still, he can't do everything. He aint superman. Him and Ron still have their hands full out west.

The best players never really struggle against him.


Call me crazy but the Lakers still are far from out of the woods in the West.

Well, you're arguing against most of the thread over two different players, even though multiple people have pointed out the problems in both of your arguments.

Again, LA has better players than Orlando, and Dwight alone made them Top 5 defensively.
LA has better players than Phoenix, Nash made them a top 10 offense.

They are being added to a team that finished 3rd in the west with our best player giving no fucks at 43%, and a top 10, but underutilized PF.

Nash will be the primary ball handler, Dwight will be a defensive anchor, ie the thing he's best in the league at doing. They'll be playing alongside Pau and Kobe, who anchored two teams to 2 rings by themselves before, and in Pau's case, had big fun shitting all over team USA's frontline this past summer.

Saying "oh man, I don't know about their offense", when the pg position has gone from complete liability to defensive sieve, offensive powerhouse, or wondering if D12 can really cover for 2 other guys, when he had to do it for 4 in Orlando is comedy.

Worrying if Kobe will actually dial down his shot selection and happily average 20-22? Sure, easily debatable.
Injuries? Sure, although that's a concern with every team.
Coach? Fuck yes. COTY Mike Brown is always a question mark.

But will Nash and Howard play like themselves? C'mon son.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Ehh, Magic is considered one of the three best offensive players of all time and his jumper was not particularly good.
Being able to effectively guard your position should be a must to be considered great

D12 doesn't do well against other great centers

Luckily for there aren't any now
 

giri

Member
He is easily one of the most talked about player in NBA and he is underrated? Yeah not buying that

Also pip could mark the 1 - 4

D12 does change games with his D
But I won't mention him with the mountain or dream
Shit prime TD was so much on D than him

Underrated lol

I think i infer that others are more over rated i guess, than D12 underrated.

But D12 does as much for any defensive system as KG has done. And maybe as much as TD.

They're all 3 sort of different players, but dwight did guard from 1 - 5 on the floor.
 

Triple U

Banned
Ehh, Magic is considered one of the three best offensive players of all time and his jumper was not particularly good.
On what planet is magic considered a top three offensive player?

MJ
Kobe
Bird
Wilt
Oscar
Kareem
Hakeem

really the list goes on and on
The first, played out knock that people bring against Dwight in this repetitive argument is "Well, Dwight would've been killed by Xhofplayer!"

He never got to play against any - so why even harp on that? Instead, we can look directly at what he is doing which is some of the best pnr defense the league has ever seen and effecting the perimeter more than any center in history despite the fact that the league is now more perimeter oriented than ever. That is what people are referring to when they speak about Dwight being a great.


True. KG wasn't having any part of any part of banging around down low. Still managed to create an amazing defense for Boston and Minnesota.

All-time great players would dominate at all times in the league. Dwight is an undersized version of David Robinson with worse skills. He would get shit on and you know it.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
All-time great players would dominate at all times in the league.

And he fucking has lol

Orlando's defense has been great for all these years because of one guy. Nobody said he's an all-time great all-around center. He's no Dream. But is his team defense, what we were arguing, on that level? Fuck yeah it is.
 
On what planet is magic considered a top three offensive player?

MJ
Kobe
Bird
Wilt
Oscar
Kareem
Hakeem

really the list goes on and on


All-time great players would dominate at all times in the league. Dwight is an undersized version of David Robinson with worse skills. He would get shit on and you know it.

None of this made any sense.

And the #4 guy on your list couldn't post up a version of Willis Reed who couldn't walk and shot 40% from the line. Every player has weaknesses. Dwight makes a legendary impact on defense (and so did Robinson)
 

giri

Member
All-time great players would dominate at all times in the league. Dwight is an undersized version of David Robinson with worse skills. He would get shit on and you know it.

The argument gets dumb because in an era with great C's dwight would be a PF.
 

Triple U

Banned
And he fucking has lol

Orlando's defense has been great for all these years because of one guy. Nobody said he's an all-time great all-around center. He's no Dream. But is his team defense, what we were arguing, on that level? Fuck yeah it is.
By all-times I mean across all eras
None of this made any sense.
You literally said Magic is a top 3 offensive player. Literally
The argument gets dumb because in an era with great C's dwight would be a PF.

In alot of eras Dwight wouldn't be an all-star.

Should I list PF's that would shot on Dwight?
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I think i infer that others are more over rated i guess, than D12 underrated.

But D12 does as much for any defensive system as KG has done. And maybe as much as TD.

They're all 3 sort of different players, but dwight did guard from 1 - 5 on the floor.

He changed shots of the 1-5 it's not the same as guarding them

Pip guarded 1-4

And TD is the victim in this

Saying D12 is as good as he was on D? Horrible

On what planet is magic considered a top three offensive player?

MJ
Kobe
Bird
Wilt
Oscar
Kareem
Hakeem

really the list goes on and on

Magic is not a top 5 player because of his D

So...
 

Triple U

Banned
Magic is not a top 5 player because of his D

So...
LOL. Magic is not a top 3 offensive player. Please stop this madness and let the man live.
okay

so how about you take note of what we were specifically talking about? dwight's effect on team d. which is some of the best of all time.

I already said you could call him a top help defender. Still doesn't make him "Pippen of Centers"
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
okay

so how about you take note of what we were specifically talking about? dwight's effect on team d. which is some of the best of all time.
I can dig it

But underrated? Not buying it

Sheed Wallace was underrated
 
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