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[Boombloxer]

It's like there's two versions of English on that last page.

Here's an easy question. If you replaced Rondo with any of the following guards, would their offense get better?

Nash
Deron
CP3
Parker
Rose

Can't really see anyone doubling off them. That's the difference, being able to make defenses pay and respect your game enables you to be a better point because you are actually playing 5 on 5, and not 4 on 5 because your jumper is YMCA-level.

This singular fact prevents him from being truly elite. It's not unlike Ibaka's shot-blocking, it's great when he does it, but he's out of position too often and consistently faked out of his shoes by better bigs. Rondo's assists = Ibaka's blocks.

That's all anyone is really saying.

 

[DY_nasty]

lol

Telling you Gary should have been his role model

With his wingspan No PG would have been able to stop him on the block

Very few point guards look and move that naturally in the block and around bigger players. Looking back, its easy to see that Sam Cassell definitely left a small mark on him - but oh well.

 

[Triple U]

I keep going back to OEFF because you don't know what it is. Also, you brought up assists before IWMTB jumped in. It was the first thing you hopped to when I said that Boston's offense has been shit for years now. Since then, I, and others, have laid out reasons, numbers, and resources telling you exactly that. Also, I didn't just bring up OEFF. Feel free to look at the post where I told you specifically that your reasoning around assists was silly and the look at the other stats that I referred to. Even when you obviously neglected the option of looking up those statistics and seeing how they were relevant to the topic (and how they could even possibly help your own argument), you instead reached for another, Pace, and tried to throw it out there as if it didn't go directly back to what I was saying about OEFF and Point Per Possession.

Its not "saying nothing". Its waiting for you to catch up - because I don't even need to add anything new until you start sounding like you even vaguely understand where the argument even is right now.

And like everyone but you saw, Ibaka/Rondo is a simile. Ibaka blocking shots and being seen as a defensive juggernaut by casual fans / Rondo racking up assists and being seen as a floor general by casuals. They're both fundamentally broken players.

I know exactly what OEFF is, IDK what you think the big secret about it is. It is an advanced stat that easily can be skewed and is not a great barometer at all by itself. The only one that has laid out any numbers is me(and the only thing you try to key on is the last thing I brought up, assists). The argument is where its always been, you trying your best to downplay how Rondo is one of the very best at his position.


Of course the Rondo/Ibaka thing is a simile, its still the most retarded shit I've every read.

Rose has similar deficiencies as Rondo, shakey J and shitty 3 pt shot and unlike Rondo, he is not very good at running an offense, but I'd take him over Rondo. Rondo requires good pieces around him to be any good, at least Rose can get his if nothing else and he can hit his freethrows.

I'd take Parker over Rondo without hesitation.

Rose is a scorer, Rondo isn't. You want a better scorer you go with Rose, you want a better PG go with rondo....

Huh
Outside of the players names everything in this post is wrong

Amazing really

Um, no. Rose is not good at running offensive sets(haven't been since MEM), he isn't a better PG and yeah the last 4 matchups Rondo has outplayed TP, the latest one not being close.

Rose's J improved a lot actually. He also seems one of the few guys in the league determined to improve his J while he's young, not when his athleticism has left him.

Rose develops that .380 3pt shot and hits it all de time... he just becomes so lethal.

What offence? The chicago coaches have been absolutely terrible at installing an offensive system. Despite rose having asked for it.

Also, yeah, Parker is better than rondo right now. Much better.

TP is what rondo should try to become, same for YNB. TP when he was young had his flaws, but has out grown them. TP was extremely lucky in that he had Pop to do that with though. Who knows about the other 2.

TP is better at putting the ball in the basket himself. Thats it. Rondo outplays him most nights.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=parketo01&p2=rondora01

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I think Rondo is a good point guard but the league has a lot of good and even great PGs at the moment.

 

[giri]

I know exactly what OEFF is, IDK what you think the big secret about it is. It is an advanced stat that easily can be skewed and is not a great barometer at all by itself. The only one that has laid out any numbers is me(and the only thing you try to key on is the last thing I brought up, assists). The argument is where its always been, you trying your best to downplay how Rondo is one of the very best at his position.


Of course the Rondo/Ibaka thing is a simile, its still the most retarded shit I've every read.


Rose is a scorer, Rondo isn't. You want a better scorer you go with Rose, you want a better PG go with rondo....



Um, no. Rose is not good at running offensive sets(haven't been since MEM), he isn't a better PG and yeah the last 4 matchups Rondo has outplayed TP, the latest one not being close.


TP is better at putting the ball in the basket himself. Thats it. Rondo outplays him most nights.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=parketo01&p2=rondora01

Uhh, 6ast is ~~~ where TP should be for SAS over the last 3 or 4 years. Even this year when TP was the best PG in the game he wasn't wracking up 15ast pg, he was around 7.5, because of how the spurs move the ball.

If what you're looking at is Assists for this argument.... you really are showing a fundamental lack of understanding of different team offenses.

 

[Blackace]

Very few point guards look and move that naturally in the block and around bigger players. Looking back, its easy to see that Sam Cassell definitely left a small mark on him - but oh well.

GP young Kidd young BDIDDY and Sam would have been great role models

That pac10 post play

 

[Triple U]

It's like there's two versions of English on that last page.

Here's an easy question. If you replaced Rondo with any of the following guards, would their offense get better?

Nash
Deron
CP3
Parker
Rose

Can't really see anyone doubling off them. That's the difference, being able to make defenses pay and respect your game enables you to be a better point because you are actually playing 5 on 5, and not 4 on 5 because your jumper is YMCA-level.

This singular fact prevents him from being truly elite. It's not unlike Ibaka's shot-blocking, it's great when he does it, but he's out of position too often and consistently faked out of his shoes by better bigs. Rondo's assists = Ibaka's blocks.

That's all anyone is really saying.

4 out of 5 of those players play with trash for offensive firepower.

The 4 on 5 thing you keep alluding two helped rondo be a top 5 scoring PG at a high FG% while still out rebounding players like Marc Gasol this postseason and doing pretty much everything for BOS.

Comparing Rondos assists to Ibaka's blocks makes no sense at all.

 

[giri]

I think Rondo is a good point guard but the league has a lot of good and even great PGs at the moment.

The league has a lot of PG's who are on the verge of making the next step. The question now becomes, how many can?

Dragic, Lawson, Rondo, YNB, Conley, rubio, irving too. All those guys have the potential to be really great. 18 & 10 sort of guys.

Question is who can put it together and do it month in month out. Quite a few of them have had their "hot months" but then failed to back it up.

 

[Triple U]

Uhh, 6ast is ~~~ where TP should be for SAS over the last 3 or 4 years. Even this year when TP was the best PG in the game he wasn't wracking up 15ast pg, he was around 7.5, because of how the spurs move the ball.

If what you're looking at is Assists for this argument.... you really are showing a fundamental lack of understanding of different team offenses.

TP was not the best PG in the game.

Anyways, no assists weren't the only thing I was looking at.....

Edit: the notion that a PG needs 18/10 to be great is pretty ludicrous.

 

[giri]

4 out of 5 of those players play with trash for offensive firepower.

The 4 on 5 thing you keep alluding two helped rondo be a top 5 scoring PG at a high FG% while still out rebounding players like Marc Gasol this postseason and doing pretty much everything for BOS.

Comparing Rondos assists to Ibaka's blocks makes no sense at all.

So he out rebounded Marc for 4 games?

Congrats! i guess? i'm not sure what point you're trying to win with that throw away line you've used 4 times now.

Also, that was probably Marcs worst 2 weeks of the season. He looked so dead out there. Probably the reason the Grizz lost really.

TP was not the best PG in the game.

Anyways, no assists weren't the only thing I was looking at.....

Last year? he was.

 

[diehard]

4 out of 5 of those players play with trash for offensive firepower.

The 4 on 5 thing you keep alluding two helped rondo be a top 5 scoring PG at a high FG% while still out rebounding players like Marc Gasol this postseason and doing pretty much everything for BOS.

Comparing Rondos assists to Ibaka's blocks makes no sense at all.

uh why do you keep bringing up FG% while leaving out his atrocious .48 TS%? Devin Harris had a far superior TS and eFG. Probably don't want to mention Rondo's scoring at all.

oh yeah it's gone down 4 years in a row, so much for that getting better.

 

[Triple U]

So he out rebounded Marc for 4 games?

Congrats! i guess? i'm not sure what point you're trying to win with that throw away line you've used 4 times now.

Also, that was probably Marcs worst 2 weeks of the season. He looked so dead out there. Probably the reason the Grizz lost really.




Last year? he was.

You do realize that its alot harder to out-rebound a guy who only played 4 games when you play all the way to the 7th game of a CF(thats besides the fact that it was more than 4 games). The fact that this is a PG compared to a 7ft center makes it even more hilarious.

 

[theignoramus]

D-Will is great when he's not laying a house of bricks from the top of the arc or blowing layups. I get that a bad shot from him was probably better than a shot from most of his teammates and he has to create alot off the dribble, but c'mon man, 6 threes a game at 34% shooting?

Joe Johnson is a very good mid range shooter, so D-Will doesnt have the excuses he had last year. If he chucks a half dozen treys a game this season, Ima laugh my ass off.

 

[giri]

You do realize that its alot harder to out-rebound a guy who only played 4 games when you play all the way to the 7th game of a CF(thats besides the fact that it was more than 4 games). The fact that this is a PG compared to a 7ft center makes it even more hilarious.

Is it harder? when those are the worst games the C plays all year and then never gets to atone for it?

Rondo is a great rebounder for his position. There's really no contention about the point. But it doesn't make him a great PG.

 

[Triple U]

uh why do you keep bringing up FG% while leaving out his atrocious .48 TS%? Devin Harris had a far superior TS and eFG. Probably don't want to mention Rondo's scoring at all.

oh yeah it's gone down 4 years in a row, so much for that getting better.

TS% is a poor metric to look at for Rondo. He doesn't take very many FTs or 3PAs.

 

[diehard]

TS% is a poor metric to look at for Rondo. He doesn't take very many FTs or 3PAs.

sorry i must have confused those with parts of scoring

eFG takes into account his lack of 3 point shooting, and it is still bad.

 

[giri]

TS% is a poor metric to look at for Rondo. He doesn't take very many FTs or 3PAs.

Don't look at the bad aspects of his game, only the good!

 

[Blackace]

Um, no. Rose is not good at running offensive sets(haven't been since MEM), he isn't a better PG and yeah the last 4 matchups Rondo has outplayed TP, the latest one not being close.

Rose runs CHI offense great

Under Vinny they had no O
Last year he was really good

Didn't they only play once last season and rondo had the better losing game

 

[theignoramus]

TP is ass among from beyond 16 feet.

 

[ph33nix]

All I know is when I drafted Rondo in the fantasy 2k league he was a fucking headache because all assholes would do is literally camp around the paint; I eventually benched him for Ty Lawson

That should tell you enough

 

[Triple U]

sorry i must have confused those with parts of scoring

eFG takes into account his lack of 3 point shooting, and it is still bad.

They are apart of scoring. He still managed to score without them though at a pretty good clip.

Also his efg is higher than tony parkers...

 

[Blackace]

TS% is a poor metric to look at for Rondo. He doesn't take very many FTs or 3PAs.

That's the kicker for a player who eats off the dribble drive he doesn't even try to draw fouls because he can't shoot

That seems like great basketball IQ

 

[Triple U]

Rose runs CHI offense great

Under Vinny they had no O
Last year he was really good

Didn't they only play once last season and rondo had the better losing game

It was a one point game.

Don't look at the bad aspects of his game, only the good!

I have said like four times that Rondo isn't a good shooter. Still doesn't change the fact that TS% is a poor measure to judge him without context...

 

[diehard]

They are apart of scoring. He still managed to score without them though at a pretty good clip.

Also his efg is higher than tony parkers...

45.6% is higher than 48%?

Without looking i couldn't think of a worse eFG for a starting point other than John Wall.

Rondo is not only a poor shooter, he is a poor scorer... period. You would be better off sticking off with his ability to run an offense and never mentioning scoring.

 

[Blackace]

It was a one point game.

And that changes it from a loss to moral victory?

On my phone so don't feel like looking for it but what is the spurs and Cz record Internet those 4 games rondo owned TP?

 

[Triple U]

45.6% is higher than 48%?

Without looking i couldn't think of a worse eFG for a starting point other than John Wall.

Rondo is not only a poor shooter, he is a poor scorer... period. You would be better off sticking off with his ability to run an offense and never mentioning scoring.

I been talking playoffs this whole time. 48.2(Rondo) is better than TP has shot the past 3 years....

And that changes it from a loss to moral victory?

On my phone so don't feel like looking for it but what is the spurs and Cz record Internet those 4 games rondo owned TP?

3-1 Rondo.

 

[diehard]

I been talking playoffs this whole time. 48.2(Rondo) is better than TP has shot the past 3 years....

Ehh im pretty sure those are regular season games between Parker and Rondo.

 

[Triple U]

Ehh im pretty sure those are regular season games between Parker and Rondo.

The post where you quoted me and brought up TS was about the playoffs. You asked to look at eFG so I brought up playoff eFG. I brought up TP's eFG for context....

 

[Flash]

lol Rondo =/ Ibaka in any way.

he's shot is seriously a huge fault in his game, but his court vision and defense are good enough to make him one of the top point guards in the league. He was seriously great this playoffs, and him and KG were instrumental in getting them as far as they did.

and the whole 4 on 5 thing is a legit complaint, but the same story applies with Nash on defense... he's pretty much just a standing pylon but no one is going to compare him to Ibaka

 

[pilonv1]

I see Triple U is back.

See you in a month.

 

[giri]

It was a one point game.




I have said like four times that Rondo isn't a good shooter. Still doesn't change the fact that TS% is a poor measure to judge him without context...

Yes, you have, it's also what makes your argument dumb.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

and the whole 4 on 5 thing is a legit complaint, but the same story applies with Nash on defense... he's pretty much just a standing pylon but no one is going to compare him to Ibaka

Defense usually takes more than 1 guy, a jumpshot on the other hand...

 

[etiolate]

I like Rondo more than most people. With the Celts big three falling off, he's upped his scoring to compensate.

I would take Rondo's cohesive game over Deron's. This is the same as I would always pick Kidd over Marbury. Not that Marbury and Deron have the same game, but I see Kidd and Rondo as guys who create wins and winning mentalities. Kidd's offensive game didn't really become a threat until very late in his career. Regardless of that, he created wins. Knowing how to create offense and baskets is akin to making shots. You may think you can ignore a guy like Rondo, but he'll still find ways to break you down.

 

[giri]

I like Rondo more than most people. With the Celts big three falling off, he's upped his scoring to compensate.

I would take Rondo's cohesive game over Deron's. This is the same as I would always pick Kidd over Marbury. Not that Marbury and Deron have the same game, but I see Kidd and Rondo as guys who create wins and winning mentalities. Kidd's offensive game didn't really become a threat until very late in his career. Regardless of that, he created wins. Knowing how to create offense and baskets is akin to making shots. You may think you can ignore a guy like Rondo, but he'll still find ways to break you down.

I wouldn't equate rondo and kidd's games at all. From year one, kidd was a decent 3pt shooter and an average to above average foul shooter.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html

You didn't play off of Kidd.

Its also why he was so effective for so long

 

[etiolate]

People played off Kidd all the time early in his career.

 

[diehard]

Kidd was also the best player on his team

that comparison isn't very good.

 

[DY_nasty]

People played off Kidd all the time early in his career.

There's a difference between Ason Kidd and Rondo.

Kidd was dared to shoot in the same way young Parker was. There was a respect there. Also, Kidd could get to the line. They had to be accounted for. Rondo is entirely different.

lol Rondo =/ Ibaka in any way.

metaphors and similes

how do they work

and boston isn't a 2nd round team without KG. Rondo's effect is consistently negligible. He could play out of his mind and still not help his team as much as a healthy Paul Pierce.

 

[Blackace]

There's a difference between Ason Kidd and Rondo.

Kidd was dared to shoot in the same way young Parker was. There was a respect there. Also, Kidd could get to the line. They had to be accounted for. Rondo is entirely different.

Kidd would also post you up

 

[Knux-Future]

Rondo is worth 3-4 pages of bickering?


The season needs to start so we can argue about stuff actually happening lol.

 

[Sanjuro]

Oh, this conversation is still going on.

Rondo is a better point guard than Rose. Send him to the Bulls.

 

[Nori Chan]

so yeah guys

football is almost here eh

 

[reilo]

Rose is a great player at his position.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Rose is a great player at his position.

Rose is a great basketball player, but I'm not sure about his pure point guard skills. However, I believe that has more to do with the lack of any real offensive system than anything else.

 

[theignoramus]

I love this post from the J-Lin thread

Every time I've lurked the NBA-GAF threads over the years I've been offput by how agressive and smug a small but vocal group of guys sitting at home liveblogging games on their computer are towards new posters.

lol. The best thing about that thread is the shitty, poorly written articles that exposed one hack sportswriter after another.

 

[pilonv1]

No one is aggressive towards posters just because they are new.

Dumb/arrogant new posters, yes, but not new posters in general.

 

[diehard]

No one is aggressive towards posters just because they are new.

Dumb/arrogant new posters, yes, but not new posters in general.

Remember when that guy came in asking simple questions about basketball and nobody was helpful at all and everyone was a huge dick!?

 

[pilonv1]

Turns out the guy complaining was banned anyway. Funny how things work.

 

[ph33nix]

Remember when that guy came in asking simple questions about basketball and nobody was helpful at all and everyone was a huge dick!?

My post of Heat highlights had to be so extremely offensive

Spoiler

to Puddles

 

[DY_nasty]

No one is aggressive towards posters just because they are new.

Dumb/arrogant new posters, yes, but not new posters in general.

Now they know how the slaves felt

 

[Syphon Filter]

Rondo is worth 3-4 pages of bickering?


The season needs to start so we can argue about stuff actually happening lol.

next month gon be gud.