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2013 NBA Playoffs |OT| Lakers started from the bottom, and they still there

B

Black Mamba

Member
too much eslim said:
I never saw him as tough. To each his own then, but I think for this to have a bigger impact we would need a marquee player coming out. As of right now this is nothing more than a blip on the radar unless the media and LGBT associations push this.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--j...ong-before-announcing-he-s-gay-193816091.html

I agree a marquis player would matter more. No one prior to this ever looked up to Collins. He was just a post defender and on offense set screens.

But it still matters.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Vahagn said:
Yea he can get fired and probably will. There are Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin because their religion teaches that and they're misinformed, but that doesn't make them bigots.


Christians think not be Christian is a sin. By being anything other than Christian they're going to burn in hell, gay or straight. That's a fundamental hallmark of Christian theology. That doesn't mean all Christians are bigots towards all non-Christians.

There are definitely bigoted Christians, but the very act of accepting the theology of the church doesn't make you a bigot.
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If part of the theology you're accepting is bigoted, you're a bigot.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Vahagn said:
Yea he can get fired and probably will. There are Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin because their religion teaches that and they're misinformed, but that doesn't make them bigots.


Christians think not be Christian is a sin. By being anything other than Christian they're going to burn in hell, gay or straight. That's a fundamental hallmark of Christian theology. That doesn't mean all Christians are bigots towards all non-Christians.

There are definitely bigoted Christians, but the very act of accepting the theology of the church doesn't make you a bigot.
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I spent almost a decade of my life being dedicated in the church. I have my MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary. My in laws are pastors of a church.

Just because one believes that God told them that being gay is immoral doesn't give them a get out of jail free card from being a bigot. Sorry. Now, we can discuss if there are levels of bigotry but Broussard IS a bigot. He may not mind hanging out with gay people, having friends who are gay, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that he holds bigoted views. Whether the views are based on a religious text or not, they are still bigoted.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Devin Harris with a lot of nice plays in a row.

He's more fun to watch play when you can just appreciate his speed and potential bursts of good play instead of focusing on his frequent stupidity.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
ClovingWestbrook said:
He's a grown ass man who is an employee for ESPN/ABC. He doesn't have the excuse of being misinformed. And if you blindly follow a misled religion, guess what, you're still a bigot. The only difference is you believe God told you to be a bigot.
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The Jewish religion teaches that there was a covenant between the Jews and God. That non-Jews weren't part of this covenant and didn't have a relationship with God.

Every religion has a "Us vs. Them" mentality. An idea that he way of life and one belief system is superior in God's eyes than another. By your definition, all Jews and Muslims and Hindus are bigots too
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
NHpUEkP.jpg
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Vahagn said:
The Jewish religion teaches that there was a covenant between the Jews and God. That non-Jews weren't part of this covenant and didn't have a relationship with God.

Every religion has a "Us vs. Them" mentality. An idea that he way of life and one belief system is superior in God's eyes than another. By your definition, all Jews and Muslims and Hindus are bigots too
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There is a difference in saying 'I think you're wrong about your religion but that doesn't matter in the here and now' than in saying 'Gays are immoral'.

Also, Jews don't hold an 'Us vs Them' mentality. Jews believe that they have a responsibility to keep the Mosaic Law. That Christians are God fearers and are not disobeying God. That Muslims too worship God. For those who believe that they are BETTER than those of a different faith and believe they shouldn't be allowed to be treated 100% equally, then yes, they're bigots.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
ClovingWestbrook said:
There is a difference in saying 'I think you're wrong about your religion but that doesn't matter in the here and now' than in saying 'Gays are immoral'.

Also, Jews don't hold an 'Us vs Them' mentality. Jews believe that they have a responsibility to keep the Mosaic Law. That Christians are God fearers and are not disobeying God. That Muslims too worship God. For those who believe that they are BETTER than those of a different faith and believe they shouldn't be allowed to be treated 100% equally, then yes, they're bigots.
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Some more liberal Jews believe this sure. But most Jews believe Jesus and Muhammad to be a false prophet. The word Gentile denotes all non-Jews. There are the Jews who have a direct relationship with God. And the non-Jews who don't. Every religion has this concept.

Muslims say that Jews and Christians are "People of the Book" and worshippers of God, but at the same time denouncing the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad are unforgivable sins which result in Hell. It's safe to say most Jews and Christians denounce the Quran and the Prophet as not being the perfect word and Prophet of God.

"Being gay leads you to the hell fire" is a messed up thing to say. But this same Christian theology says that "Being non-Christian leads you to the hell fire".

To define bigot as loosely as you do, means to call almost every religious person of every religion a bigot.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Vahagn said:
Some more liberal Jews believe this sure. But most Jews believe Jesus and Muhammad to be a false prophet. The word Gentile denotes all non-Jews. There are the Jews who have a direct relationship with God. And the non-Jews who don't. Every religion has this concept.

Muslims soapy that Jews and Christians are "People of the Book" and worshippers of God, but at the same time denouncing the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad are unforgivable sins which result in Hell. It's safe to say most Jews and Christians denounce the Quran and the Prophet as being the perfect word and Prophet of God.

"Being gay leads you to the hell fire" is a messed up thing to say. But this same Christian theology says that "Being non-Christian leads you to the hell fire".

To define bigot as loosely as you do, means to call almost every religious person of every religion a bigot.
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There is a difference if these individuals let their religious views to dictate the stance that members of other faiths shouldn't be treated equally. That is the difference.

If someone wants to believe that Jesus died and was raised and if you don't believe this you're going to hell, that is one thing.
If someone wants to believe that God says being gay is immoral and therefore gays shouldn't be treated equally as heterosexuals, that is bigotry.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
ClovingWestbrook said:
There is a difference if these individuals let their religious views to dictate the stance that members of other faiths shouldn't be treated equally. That is the difference.

If someone wants to believe that Jesus died and was raised and if you don't believe this you're going to hell, that is one thing.
If someone wants to believe that God says being gay is immoral and therefore gays shouldn't be treated equally as heterosexuals, that is bigotry.
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Bingo! Now tell me where Chris Broussard said this? He didn't. He said the opposite. Bigotry is treating different people differently, or attempting to enact laws or execute laws differently for differently people. Supporting different people having different rights. To my knowledge, Broussard never said any of this. What he said was a purely theological point, and while I think he's misinformed and his position isn't well thought out - his practical real world treatment of gays doesn't reek of bigotry from what I've seen so far.
 
T

THRILLH0

Banned
SamuraiX- said:
Just read about Clown Broussard's evangelical outburst.

The fact that this guy is still employed is pretty disgraceful on ESPN's part.
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I wouldn't really call it an outburst and as long as he applies his beliefs consistently - and they don't manifest themselves as discriminatory - I don't really have a problem with it.

There's no disputing that the bible categorises homosexuality - alongside adultery and pre-marital sex - as a sin. How much stock you put in the bible is irrelevant, that's what it says.

I have no issue then with Broussard, as a Christian, labelling Collins a sinner, as long as he would apply the same label to Kobe, LeBron or any other player who has cheated on their spouse or fathered a child out of wedlock.

Calling homosexuality a sin is not homophobic in and of itself.

If he were to go on and sat that he would have a problem playing with Collins or make an issue out of the shower situation, well then it would be a problem.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
I don't really have a problem with Broussard saying what hes said, it's dumb and everything but hes entitled to it. Obviously his employer can take issue to what he said but this is the part that really confuses me greatly.

Much bigger problem with ESPN enabling him to have a "debate" on air. They knew his opinions, they weren't a secret and they put him on air to say what he said. Honestly he did what they pay him to do, he went on the air and said his opinions which are generally stupid as it is (lol Mempis).

Honestly its fucked up if they suspend him or fire him now. He did exactly what was expected out of him given his previous remarks on this issue. Literally nothing he said today was any different than his previous remarks before today and this has been the case for years. Suddenly its a problem now because you chose to gave him that platform and he said exactly what you expected him to say.

Whoever chose to put him on TV should be fired before Broussard himself.
 
Z

zychi

Banned
AShep said:
I wouldn't really call it an outburst and as long as he applies his beliefs consistently - and they don't manifest themselves as discriminatory - I don't really have a problem with it.

There's no disputing that the bible categorises homosexuality - alongside adultery and pre-marital sex - as a sin. How much stock you put in the bible is irrelevant, that's what it says.

I have no issue then with Broussard, as a Christian, labelling Collins a sinner, as long as he would apply the same label to Kobe, LeBron or any other player who has cheated on their spouse or fathered a child out of wedlock.

Calling homosexuality a sin is not homophobic in and of itself.

If he were to go on and sat that he would have a problem playing with Collins or make an issue out of the shower situation, well then it would be a problem.
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Kobe cheated on his wife, Broussard, to my knowledge, was still blowing him back then. He's a pick and choose from the Bible idiot. Dude should get canned. Other people from Espn have been fired for less.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Vahagn said:
Bingo! Now tell me where Chris Broussard said this? He didn't. He said the opposite. Bigotry is treating different people differently, or attempting to enact laws or execute laws differently for differently people. Supporting different people having different rights. To my knowledge, Broussard never said any of this. What he said was a purely theological point, and while I think he's misinformed and his position isn't well thought out - his practical real world treatment of gays doesn't reek of bigotry from what I've seen so far.
Click to expand...

Except the fact that he is so willing to argue that gays are unable to live openly and carry on romantic relationships with other men disqualifies them from being in good standing before God tells me enough. There are many MANY Christians who disagree with him and argue that gays who are in a non monogamous relationship are living in just as much sin as straights who are not married. That the passages about gays in the Bible aren't as clear cut as many on the Right would like them to be. There is debate within the Christian community about this very issue.

If these individuals are correct (it's theological so there is no way to prove) then being gay will not send someone to hell. The only thing sending people to hell is to deny Christ. Therefore Chris has chosen an issue that isn't a cornerstone of the Christian faith nor is it an essential point of salvation. He has chosen to make it an issue and announced as such in this situation.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
zychi said:
Kobe cheated on his wife, Broussard, to my knowledge, was still blowing him back then. He's a pick and choose from the Bible idiot. Dude should get canned. Other people from Espn have been fired for less.
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He specifically said homosexuality is a sin just as adultery is a sin and fornication or sex before marriage is a sin. It's all the same to him. He also said, he doesn't allow that to affect whether he's friends with anyone, but that he still believes that these are sins against God and between them and God.

You didnt see the interview did you?

I don't agree with Chris, I'm just defending his right to be a Christian as long as he doesn't try to change other people's lives in his religious principles. Whether he's judging someone for being gay, that's up to him. People judge people all the time for all sorts of nonsense, it is what it is.
 
E

effzee

Member
Maybe I missed it but I heard SAS saying the Lakers can offer Dwight 30M more than any other team in the league. Why?

Dwight first two choices were Dallas and Brooklyn right? Wouldn't Dallas be able to offer the most?
 
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