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2013 NBA Playoffs |OT3| Don't believe the pipe

Wow I feel bad for pheenix today, keep fighting the good fight brother.

Anyway I just found out that my work schedule will have me in St. Louis for game 6 and 7 of the NBA Finals. We better win in 5, yeah that probably i'snt happening.

(Yes if we get passed the Pacers, I now acknowledge it is a possibility we may lose, if ever so slightly :p)
 

Nori Chan

Member
so psy is like hurr durr avatar bet me and doesn't even set the terms of agreement

Lol shit vag and syphon say the bet was for forever
 
Alan Hahn said:
When it comes to flopping, Red Auerbach and LeBron James differ in opinion. The game is in a dangerous place.

"Some guys have been doing it for years, just trying to get an advantage," James said in a story by Brian Windhorst on ESPN.com. "Any way you can get an advantage over the opponent to help your team win, so be it."

That sounds like a strong endorsement for flopping by the game's greatest player. And that should be alarming.

Flopping has existed in the game since Dr. James Naismith tacked up a peach basket at the Springfield Y, but it has never been more prominent than it is today. Four decades ago it was already becoming a disturbing trend to the point where the great Red Auerbach expressed outrage in a basketball instructional video. (h/t to @RedsArmy_John).

Auerbach roared about how coaches were teaching players how to flop and draw fouls.

"This is unreal!" he barked. "They're teaching them HOW TO FALL!"

The legendary coach later added, "I'm very, very much opposed to this type of basketball."

Auerbach brought in Mendy Rudolph, who was one of the most respected referees in NBA history, to offer his thoughts on flopping.

"The official should ignore it totally," Rudolph said, "to eliminate this kind of acting in our game."

But the game these days moves much faster than it did 40 years ago. Most referees are caught reacting to movement without actually seeing what the viewing audience sees with the benefit of television replay.

The NBA has made efforts to control the issue by fining players for flopping. Four players have been fined in the playoffs this season, including the Knicks' J.R. Smith. The fine is $5,000.

Ironically, no one on the Heat has been fined, despite the universal belief that they practice flopping more than any other team in the league. Don't believe me? Ask Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau and Pacers coach Frank Vogel, who were each fined $15,000 for expressing his opinion that the officials let the Heat get away with flopping.

So $5,000 for flopping or $15,000 for complaining about flopping.

What have they done to your game, Red?

We'll let Dwyane Wade answer that.

"We would have no NBA, possibly," he said, "if they got rid of all the flopping."

Is this an issue to you as a fan or no?
.
 
Advance stats elitism is always stupid, but in basketball, it's fucking comical.

How is counting an advanced metric?

I'm not remotely sure how pace or ORtg could be considered "advanced" and ignoring possessions per game for how effective an offense and defense is is an incredibly stupid idea (the exact calculation for pace is more complicated than counting, but understanding that teams have different amounts of possessions per game and that this matters is a ridiculously basic idea)
 

Chichikov

Member
How is counting an advanced metric?

I'm not remotely sure how pace or ORtg could be considered "advanced" and ignoring possessions per game for how effective an offense and defense is is an incredibly stupid idea (the exact calculation for pace is more complicated than counting, but understanding that teams have different amounts of possessions per game and that this matters is a ridiculously basic idea)
I don't want to get into the definition of "advanced" (probably 'recent' or 'new' is a better moniker, I'll grant you that) but your suggestion that not knowing what stuff like Ortg means your basketball understanding is limited is fucking retarded.
Those type of stats don't grant you any insight that watching the fucking game wouldn't yield, it's useful for sites like basketball reference as it allow you easy sorting and give you a rough idea about how teams that you don't watch are doing.
But countering observations about the actual game with such stats betray a fundamental lack of understanding of the game of basketball, and being a dick about it is just sad.
 
I don't want to get into the definition of "advanced" (probably 'recent' or 'new' is a better moniker, I'll grant you that) but your suggestion that not knowing what stuff like Ortg means your basketball understanding is limited is fucking retarded.
Those type of stats don't grant you any insight that watching the fucking game wouldn't yield, it's useful for sites like basketball reference as it allow you easy sorting and give you a rough idea about how teams that you don't watch are doing.
But countering observations about the actual game with such stats betray a fundamental lack of understanding of the game of basketball, and being a dick about it is just sad.

uh what

advanced stats are incredibly important given that tons of people still think monta ellis and rudy gay aren't terrible players
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
I don't want to get into the definition of "advanced" (probably 'recent' or 'new' is a better moniker, I'll grant you that) but your suggestion that not knowing what stuff like Ortg means your basketball understanding is limited is fucking retarded.
Those type of stats don't grant you any insight that watching the fucking game wouldn't yield, it's useful for sites like basketball reference as it allow you easy sorting and give you a rough idea about how teams that you don't watch are doing.
But countering observations about the actual game with such stats betray a fundamental lack of understanding of the game of basketball, and being a dick about it is just sad.

ORtg isn't an advanced stat though.

Its hardly a 'basic' one but its not advanced. I think +/- could be considered more of advanced stat tbh.
uh what

advanced stats are incredibly important given that tons of people still think monta ellis and rudy gay aren't terrible players

this too lol
 

Chichikov

Member
uh what

advanced stats are incredibly important given that tons of people still think monta ellis and rudy gay aren't terrible players
If you need advance stats to know that Monte Ellis sucks, you already failed at understanding basketball.
Fuck, the whole idea that he's a good basketball player come from people who spend more time reading box scores than watching the game.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
If you need advance stats to know that Monte Ellis sucks, you already failed at understanding basketball.
Fuck, the whole idea that he's a good basketball player come from people who spend more time reading box scores than watching the game.

There are people out there who can't see past their bias though.

Like Carmelo Anthony fans.
 

Chichikov

Member
There are people out there who can't see past their bias though.

Like Carmelo Anthony fans.
And you really think they're one composite stat away from seeing the light?
People who can't see how retarded it is for someone with his build to play like a shooting guard are not going to be convinced by math.
 

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
for the 2k sim fans

Spurs up on the Heat (in Miami) 39-31 at the half. Heat scored 6 points total with LeBron on the bench. Nobody in double figures :|
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
^^some do, some don't
You were hyping up Augustin to be a top10 PG right while he was shooting 37%

Saint DJ was literally the only offensive threat on the team and the only player that opposing teams had to guard. He was still somehow one of the top 10 most efficient point guards in the league at that point. Its a shame that Larry Brown's voodoo magic destroyed what little was left of his soul though.
 

thekad

Banned
I don't want to get into the definition of "advanced" (probably 'recent' or 'new' is a better moniker, I'll grant you that) but your suggestion that not knowing what stuff like Ortg means your basketball understanding is limited is fucking retarded.

Vag and Black Mamba just went through a whole exercise showing that this isn't true. Not knowing what pace is might lead one to believe that the Pacers defense is the thing keeping them in this series rater than their offense (or Miami's bad defense really). Obviously, it isn't a perfect example since Vag is a moron anyway.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Vag and Black Mamba just went through a whole exercise showing that this isn't true. Not knowing what pace is might lead one to believe that the Pacers defense is the thing keeping them in this series rater than their offense (or Miami's bad defense really). Obviously, it isn't a perfect example since Vag is a moron anyway.

"Revert to the mean"

wizardry
 

Chichikov

Member
Vag and Black Mamba just went through a whole exercise showing that this isn't true. Not knowing what pace is might lead one to believe that the Pacers defense is the thing keeping them in this series rater than their offense (or Miami's bad defense really). Obviously, it isn't a perfect example since Vag is a moron anyway.
I'm a math major, and trust me, no one came out looking good from that discussion.
And saying shit like "pacers offense not their defense is what keep them in the series" is beyond simplistic, and claiming to divine that from pace is downright silly.
 

linsivvi

Member
Vag and Black Mamba just went through a whole exercise showing that this isn't true. Not knowing what pace is might lead one to believe that the Pacers defense is the thing keeping them in this series rater than their offense (or Miami's bad defense really). Obviously, it isn't a perfect example since Vag is a moron anyway.

And yet, he won an avatar bet.

There's always a bigger moron.
 
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