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[ivysaur12]

I appreciate that Code Black at least tried to make their ER look like an ER and not a spa.

EDIT: Yeah, if you told me in December that this was a Good Wife-type show, I could see myself watching it. Great production design, great cast, and I'm really into the idea behind the show. If it has that serialized-arced X factor, I could do that.

 

[firehawk12]

You mean the Supergirl movie with Supergirl in it? I'm not seeing the connection, tbh.

They do pull the HE'S MY COUSIN garbage in both, but otherwise look pretty different. This new one is sadly not likely to have a villain anywhere near as fabulous as Faye Dunaway, tho.

you mean every network

It's more the girly characterization than anything else... but I assume that they're going to try to appeal to someone different than the people who watch SHIELD or Gotham. It's like Gossip Girl and Arrow had a baby. lol

It does seem like it belongs on the Beautiful People Doing Heroic Things Network.

I honestly expected more of that Wonder Woman pilot than what this trailer gave off... but I guess Super Girl has to be a young girl in her twenties and not a strong woman in her 30s?

---

Meanwhile, daddy Sepinwall and daddy Feinberg having a fight about Wayward Pines. It's weird how their standards seem to change from review to review, where Feinberg is fine with the show being bad because it is - in his words - "proficient". Better than Under the Dome seems to be the bar that's being set nowadays.

 

[vatstep]

Life in Pieces had me at Dianne Wiest.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Supergirl trailer is fantastic. I normally avoid the superhero TV shows but I'm watching that.

 

[ivysaur12]

I take issue with the idea that while things that are "for dudes" can be enjoyed by men and women alike, things "for chicks" can only be enjoyed by women.

I don't know if it's happening here, but there seems to be some weird responses with the fact that Supergirl acts like a woman in her twenties with relationships?

 

[Patryn]

Whatever, honestly. Arrow/Flash get really self-indulgent sometimes. Supergirl has a bit of it in the trailer at times, maybe they'll reign it in, maybe they won't. I'm sorta interested regardless even if comic book shows mostly come out sub par unless you are in love with the source material.

I'd rather Supergirl be its own thing. The whole Superman exists but we never see him kind of messes with the Arrowverse.

Honestly, I think Supergirl would have been better if they just did a gender-flipped Superman thing. No Superman, just Supergirl.

Why can't a woman be the cornerstone of the hero universe?

 

[firehawk12]

I take issue with the idea that while things that are "for dudes" can be enjoyed by men and women alike, things "for chicks" can only be enjoyed by women.

I don't know if it's happening here, but there seems to be some weird responses with the fact that Supergirl acts like a woman in her twenties with relationships?

For me, I look at something like Agent Carter, which can feature a strong woman and hints of romance without having to be... well, watching a cliched story about a young single woman living in the big city.

 

[ryseing]

This is CBS we're talking about though.....aren't they masters of taking great concepts like Limitless and turning them into procedural shits?

The description for Limitless says something about the guy solving weekly crimes for the FBI.

Rolled my eyes so hard.

Bradley Cooper in a recurring role was a nice surprise though.

 

[dead souls]

I take issue with the idea that while things that are "for dudes" can be enjoyed by men and women alike, things "for chicks" can only be enjoyed by women.

I don't know if it's happening here, but there seems to be some weird responses with the fact that Supergirl acts like a woman in her twenties with relationships?

I agree.

I just want to know how Supergirl is going to be the only one on the show who doesn't know she's Supergirl. #Iris

 

[ivysaur12]

For me, I look at something like Agent Carter, which can feature a strong woman and hints of romance without having to be... well, watching a cliched story about a young single woman living in the big city.

It's just sort of weird to expect women not to have love interests. That's organic. Think of any female-male buddy cop duo that's on TV right now. That's a love interest from the get go.

Like, people have love interests? That's natural? And it's a natural tension that's on screen? To have a story in that setting devoid of that would be odd. Give her romance! Give her comedy! It's a hell of a lot more interesting than the two episodes of Gotham I stomached through.

firehawk12: All I know is that Mo Ryan haaaates Wayward Pines based on her tweets, lol. That's enough for me to stay away from it because *for the most part* we have fairly similar tastes versus other TV critics.

And, well, there's this scathing review she just put up on HuffPo, too:



daaaamn girl go IN

I try not to do this often unless something really bothers me, but it's. fucking. terrible. Incomprehensible babble.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I thought that was Wayward Pines intent. Sort of like a new attempt at a Twin Peaks kind of show...

 

[firehawk12]

firehawk12: All I know is that Mo Ryan haaaates Wayward Pines based on her tweets, lol. That's enough for me to stay away from it because *for the most part* we have fairly similar tastes versus other TV critics.

And, well, there's this scathing review she just put up on HuffPo, too:

daaaamn girl go IN

It was funny... Fienberg was saying that even the book is barely literate trash, but that as summer tv, it's something that's acceptable. I didn't expect Sepinwall to go in as hard as he did. It's like he resented Fienberg making him watch 5 episodes and he needed to lash out. lol

 

[firehawk12]

It's just sort of weird to expect women not to have love interests. That's organic. Think of any female-male buddy cop duo that's on TV right now. That's a love interest from the get go.

Like, people have love interests? That's natural? And it's a natural tension that's on screen? To have a story in that setting devoid of that would be odd. Give her romance! Give her comedy! It's a hell of a lot more interesting than the two episodes of Gotham I stomached through.

I don't have a problem with romance at all, just the overall situation.

You know what it reminds me of? The trailer for Jem and the Holograms, where it's a young woman trying to navigate the harsh realities of the world as she transitions from her young sheltered life.

I guess I've just seen that play out so many times that I'd rather just have a story where the lead character is already... well, confident and strong and ready to take on the world.

I understand that this is a trailer for a pilot of course, so assuming the show doesn't get cancelled, she'll probably get there... but why can't we just start there?

 

[dead souls]

The ads didn't sell me on Wayward Pines at all. It looks pretty bad. I'll have at least one thing to watch on Thursdays for the rest of the summer so I'm not even trying it out.

 

[beat]

I didn't catch that. Very clever and original contrast with networks that employ lots of ugly people on their shows doing unheroic things like (random example from ABC's front page) Quantico.

To me, the CW has a track record of casting for hotness without regard for acting ability. People have remarked about Flash's younger actors (not the grownups) being surprisingly good for CW, and to me they're still kind of just adequate, but the Flash is the almost only CW show I watch. (I guess I grade iZombie on a different level, and have higher expectations, because it's Rob Thomas.)

 

[Kaladin]

I watched the Wayward Pines pilot while on Hulu. They have an intriguing concept, but I think they blow their load on it too soon.

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't have a problem with romance at all, just the overall situation.

You know what it reminds me of? The trailer for Jem and the Holograms, where it's a young woman trying to navigate the harsh realities of the world as she transitions from her young sheltered life.

I guess I've just seen that play out so many times that I'd rather just have a story where the lead character is already... well, confident and strong and ready to take on the world.

I understand that this is a trailer for a pilot of course, so assuming the show doesn't get cancelled, she'll probably get there... but why can't we just start there?

Okay, I think that's different than what I was hearing, which was "why is this like a romcom this is for chicks."

Your problem seems different, and I get it. But I would also say, from at story POV, it doesn't seem to make sense to have this particular character to already be where you want her to be. I dunno, feels less of an interesting arc. I think the journey of realizing your destiny is an old one, but there's a reason it still resonates.

 

[Corpekata]

Code Black I think has cemented in me that medical dramas just aren't for me.

 

[firehawk12]

Okay, I think that's different than what I was hearing, which was "why is this like a romcom this is for chicks."

Your problem seems different, and I get it. But I would also say, from at story POV, it doesn't seem to make sense to have this particular character to already be where you want her to be. I dunno, feels less of an interesting arc. I think the journey of realizing your destiny is an old one, but there's a reason it still resonates.

Well, this is not to say that David E Kelley is some kind of genius, but I liked that the Wonder Woman pilot just started with her fairly established without any of that origin story BS that gums up superhero/young woman in big city stories.

Maybe I just want Supergirl to be like the girls on Broad City. Slumming around in NYC, celebrating the fact that one of their boyfriends wants to be pegged. lol

 

[ivysaur12]

Some of the dialogue was pretty cringeworthy, but it looks pretty solid otherwise. I might just check out all of CBS' new pilots this fall, which is not something I've done for any network in ages.

I don't think that being terrible is anyone's intent, though?

Yes, I agree, but it's also a bit of pilotitis? Maybe. We'll see. I will check it out, which is weird. At least for me.

Also -- you can sort of see it in the Limitless trailer, but if it's a show about how Deb is knowingly dosing up Mr. Manhattan Love Story and hurting him in the process, that's actually really interesting.

Well, this is not to say that David E Kelley is some kind of genius, but I liked that the Wonder Woman pilot just started with her fairly established without any of that origin story BS that gums up superhero/young woman in big city stories.

Maybe I just want Supergirl to be like the girls on Broad City. Slumming around in NYC, celebrating the fact that one of their boyfriends wants to be pegged. lol

Didn't the Wonder Woman pilot also have her crying, eating ice cream while watching romcoms?

 

[Jest Chillin]

I don't think that being terrible is anyone's intent, though?

True enough, though something like Twin Peaks is very divisive by nature. Think of the "so bad it's good" contingent. Now, I've never watched Twin Peaks but that's what I've always thought of when people describe it. So I had assumed Wayward Pines was inspired by that and thus would play to the same concept. Overacting, leaning intro tropes really hard, convoluted plotlines, etc..

 

[firehawk12]

Didn't the Wonder Woman pilot also have her crying, eating ice cream while watching romcoms?

Honestly, all I remember is the single white female lawyer part... because, well, David E Kelley. lol

 

[ivysaur12]

Honestly, all I remember is the single white female lawyer part... because, well, David E Kelley. lol

Just like Harry's Law!

 

[firehawk12]

Just like Harry's Law!

And she didn't need to have an origin arc!

 

[ivysaur12]

And she didn't need to have an origin arc!

The problems with an early cancellation :-(

 

[Jest Chillin]

No, not at all. People like Twin Peaks because it's quirky and has a very distinctive atmosphere and set of characters, not because it's bad. (It isn't, just so we're clear. Save for chunks of season 2.) It plays on the "small town with a big secret" trope pretty hard, but it is also the origin point for a lot of aspects of that trend, too.

See, your description of Twin Peaks is very different than what I've heard previously. Usually people talk about the overt soapy-overacting and the absolutely weird characters that don't follow any kind of normal logic, and a plot line that pretty much makes no sense if you take even a second to stop and think about it.

I mean at the very least, given that was my impression, you can surely see how I thought that kind of stuff was intentional via inspiration/homage.

As an aside, I'll still give it a shot even if just to see if something like that appeals to me. I mean I was able to enjoy Hemlock Grove, so I could potentially enjoy Wayward Pines.

 

[Kaladin]

Yes, you and everyone else. ;p They're a bit worse than the other networks in the casting-only-pretty-people department, but not significantly so, imo. Casts on nearly every broadcast TV show tend towards being unrealistically attractive and have done so for a long time; I suppose it stands out more on the CW because their audience, and correspondingly their actors, skew a bit younger. This is kind of how mainstream American media works, though. I'm just getting tired of everyone dismissing the network and its output out of hand for something that everyone does to some degree or other.

My comment isn't meant to dismiss the network and it's output. I actually enjoy a few CW shows. It's just hard to ignore that trend on CW. I get your point that is does expand to most networks with prime time dramas, but CW's just sticks out like a sore thumb and I think they were doing it long before other networks started casting just ridiculously hot people.

 

[OceanicAir]

I thoroughly enjoyed the Wayward Pines pilot, then again I tend to give a lot of lee-way to shows that I have been waiting for and I am a sucker weird happenings and conspiracies (some but not all!), so who knows how I will feel after a couple more episodes. But I haven't let bad reviews deter me before and I won't start now!

 

[Sober]

I'd rather Supergirl be its own thing. The whole Superman exists but we never see him kind of messes with the Arrowverse.

Honestly, I think Supergirl would have been better if they just did a gender-flipped Superman thing. No Superman, just Supergirl.

Why can't a woman be the cornerstone of the hero universe?

Honestly I would've preferred that as well but as long as they sorta keep Superman hands off (and the trailer kinda hinted to it), she's supposed to be her own thing instead of a "me-too"-er. I guess it's as good as it can get in that direction. Which is fine with me.

Yes, I agree, but it's also a bit of pilotitis? Maybe. We'll see. I will check it out, which is weird. At least for me.

Also -- you can sort of see it in the Limitless trailer, but if it's a show about how Deb is knowingly dosing up Mr. Manhattan Love Story and hurting him in the process, that's actually really interesting.

I get the feeling that might not happen, unless that was part of what the movie was exploring. And even then I hear in the show, the drug is "perfected"? anyway, so until I see the entire pilot I get the feeling the only adverse affects is "coming down" and people wanting to kill you for your dosage. It sounds like a tag scene if we're at all being honest.

I find iZombie good but a little bit grating as of episode 3 or so (it feels like Rob Thomas is trying a little too hard at clever dialogue and I don't really care for the tone it's setting) and though I don't watch Flash or Arrow now so I can't compare with those, it's my least favorite of the three shows I watch on that network after The 100 and Jane the Virgin. I don't think the cast is any more talented or less attractive than either of those two, at any rate.

iZombie is actually a good show though. Flash and Arrow rely too much on comic book tropes to carry them to the finish line.

 

[tim.mbp]

Life In Pieces looks like the best show of the fall.

 

[TJ Bennett]

Life In Pieces looks like the best show of the fall.

We all know Scream Queens will be the best show of the fall.

*Thanks in advance for keeping me employed.

 

[WarrenMax007]

Limitless - looks good. I liked the lead dude, Jennifer Carpenter, and Bradley Cooper will recur.
Life in Pieces - trailer was weird, but the show could be good, i need to see the pilot.
Code Black - looks fucking awful. Dialogue is so bad. I was a little interested when Maggie Grace was supposed to be in it, but then she left the show.
Angel From Hell - was this supposed to be funny? I didn't see anything funny in there.
Supergirl - looks pretty bad. With CGI straight from 2004.

And people actually liked Supergirl trailer? GAF's supeheroes hard on never ceases to amaze me.

 

[maxcriden]

I thoroughly enjoyed the Wayward Pines pilot, then again I tend to give a lot of lee-way to shows that I have been waiting for and I am a sucker weird happenings and conspiracies (some but not all!), so who knows how I will feel after a couple more episodes. But I haven't let bad reviews deter me before and I won't start now!

At least tell me Happy Town didn't suck you in

 

[Jest Chillin]

At least tell me Happy Town didn't suck you in

I really liked Happy Town. ;/

 

[maxcriden]

I really liked Happy Town. ;/

Maybe I was too hard on it based on the pilot?

 

[Sober]

And people actually liked Supergirl trailer? GAF's supeheroes hard on never ceases to amaze me.

I think the trailer was mostly good, though I doubt the music in it was indicative of the score (I rewatched the Flash upfronts trailer, they used the show's actual score there). Whatever, seems like it was cut differently on purpose.

Superhero shows are fine but I judge them on their own merits and honestly they don't have much beyond a surface level reading of the text not counting comic book references most of the time. That's also fine but people generally lack perspective and think all sorts of things but it takes too much energy to tell them otherwise so whatever.

Superhero movies and shows being a big thing now is hilarious though, because threads/online discussion in generally eventually devolve into dick measuring contests to see who read more issues before X superhero became live action and it became cool and who can recite comics lore better.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Maybe I was too hard on it based on the pilot?

Probably not considering how quickly it was nuked from orbit. But I did like it.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

From the station that brought you Three Rivers and Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman.

Even better!

We all know Scream Queens will be the best show of the fall.

*Thanks in advance for keeping me employed.

You work on Scream Queens? In what capacity?

 

[OceanicAir]

At least tell me Happy Town didn't suck you in

Huh, never heard of that show. Although that came on while I lived overseas when I mainly followed shows that family recommended or shows that I continued watching from late summer/early fall. But I may or may not have watched if I did know about it

 

[TripOpt55]

I thought all the CBS shows looked pretty watchable except Code Black (which just isn't for me). I've never seen Limitless, but it is pretty cool Bradley Cooper will be popping up in the show. I will have to give the movie a look. Supergirl looked fine, but I fear I am a little superheroed out. Life in Pieces looked more interesting and funnier to me than the other one as far as comedies go.

 

[jamesinclair]

So some of you may know me as the guy who absolutely detests comic-book movies and more so, comic book TV shows.

And by that, I mean series based off existing franchises, and not the original stuff like Heroes (not that Heroes ended up being good though).

Sometimes Ive been asked "why do you care? Just dont watch it"

Of course my response was "every hour of TV eaten up by crap is an hour not available for good stuff"

However, there was a thread posted in OT that linked to some very long article about why Marvel is killing movies. While I dont agree 100% with the article, I felt this paragraph has summarized what Ive been thinking for years:

It kills me that I am so bothered by this. I understand that these movies are power fantasies for nine-year-olds: At the end of the day, accepting that they’re stupid is probably smarter than wishing for them to be smart. But this is the epicenter of pop culture. Everyone is expected to share power fantasies with nine-year-olds now, and worse than that, to take them seriously; to make them into a lifestyle. The Marvel virus has already overtaken movies; now, it’s infiltrated a new host, TV, and is hollowing it out from within.

The aim is not one or two bad movies a year, it’s a total lifestyle regimen of bad pop culture: In order to keep up with Avengers, you need to keep up with Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor, and in order to keep up with those, you should probably be watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which will really help you keep up with Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, and Guardians of the Galaxy, and in order to make sure you’re on top of these nine essential movie franchises and able to make sense of their plots, you’ll need to keep a constant stream of Marvel product in your life, so make sure to tune in for Agent Carter, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and, of course, the forthcoming Hulu triumphs, Ant-Man’s One Weird Friend Gary and Guy Running Away From Explosion In Panel 17.

http://www.wired.com/2015/05/marvel-killing-the-popcorn-movie/

I dont want to steal from the conversation going on in that dedicated thread, but I thought it made sense to throw this in here.

 

[Hours Left]

^ That article is hyperbolic dreck. Pop culture will always follow trends, that's precisely what pop culture is. If it's not superheroes, it'll be something else, and so on and so on. There is nothing that needs to be "protected".

 

[TJ Bennett]

You work on Scream Queens? In what capacity?

Associate Producer

 

[Hours Left]

CBS
Supergirl: Looks cute. I hope it does end up being part of the Arrowverse. I'll give it a go.
Limitless: Didn't wow me. Pass
Code Black: Still not getting back into medical dramas, despite the great cast. Pass.
Life in Pieces: An "edgier" Modern Family? It might have potential but no thanks.
Angel from Hell: Not for me. Pass.

 

[Wiktor]

And people actually liked Supergirl trailer? GAF's supeheroes hard on never ceases to amaze me.

I would say this forum is probably the place that reacted least positively to this trailer from places I frequent.
Regular tv sites/critics seem to be in love.

 

[Wiktor]

Of course my response was "every hour of TV eaten up by crap is an hour not available for good stuff"
.

That's nonsense now. It might have been true ten years ago. But not today. There's no limited ammount of space for tv shows. Their numbers are growing and growing constantly. And this is CBS. You really think yet another CSI or NCSI procedural would be better use of their air time than Supergirl? At least it's somethin fresh and new compared to the rest of this network's shows.

So it just feels like you don;t like that other people don't share your taste and you are looking for justifications for those feelings.

 

[ivysaur12]

I mean, it's right on the one hand - these shallow teenage power fantasies can feel grating and overbearing now that they've blossomed into an all-consuming obsession see e.g. front page of OT any day of the week - but on the other? Without these shows we would just have some variant of the cop/lawyer/doctor procedural, honestly, and I don't find that any more inspiring a formula 99% of the time. Even with as much love as British TV gets, the majority of the shows I've seen coming out of the UK these days have been crime dramas, period dramas, and workplace comedies, even if many of those are quite good. There's always Doctor Who for variety, I guess.

Television has a tendency to get stuck in ruts- what's successful must be repeatable for every season until eternity- but I honestly don't find the recent explosion of these shows to necessarily be some sign that the medium is slowly dooming itself to a comic book hell. At least not yet, and not greater than any other trend that has dominated before. Like, I definitely don't feel like there are fewer great shows on television now than there were at any particular unspecified before-time.

That's sort of where I am on it. I'm open to a female-lead superhero TV show, at least, because it doesn't seem to be living out this power fantasy that I feel some other comic book media does. And Supergirl looked really fun.

And yeah, it's not a zero sum game. It is on broadcast, I guess, the other shows you were going to get wouldn't be any better. We have more shows now than we ever did. Superhero shows did not stop that.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Associate Producer

Wow, way to go man!

I mean, it's right on the one hand - these shallow teenage power fantasies can feel grating and overbearing now that they've blossomed into an all-consuming obsession see e.g. front page of OT any day of the week - but on the other? Without these shows we would just have some variant of the cop/lawyer/doctor procedural, honestly, and I don't find that any more inspiring a formula 99% of the time.

Agree. I mean, take Supergirl for example. Let's say CBS decided to pass on it - what would be on their schedule instead this fall?

Doubt - "Centers on a smart, chic, successful defense lawyer at a boutique firm..."

A law procedural.

For Justice - "An FBI agent who works in the Criminal Section of the Department of Civil Rights Division..."

A cop procedural.

Spoiler

probably. just go with it

LFE - "High-octane medical procedural centering on second-year residents at New York City’s top hospital..."

A medical procedural.

Sneaky Pete - "A thirtysomething con man uses his considerable charm and criminal prowess to take down bad guys far worse than himself..."

A con man procedural.

Is Supergirl really any less preferable than the above shows? At least it has the novelty of being a superhero show going for it.

 

[ivysaur12]

Actually, the scripts for Doubt, For Justice, and Sneaky Pete were really good, but I'd rather have Supergirl on the schedule and take one of those over Limitless or Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders.

 

[Pachimari]

Damn, Wayward Pines were my most anticipated show of the upcoming new ones.