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2015 NBA Finals |OT| the deli is closed

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G

gcubed

Member
piratethingy said:
Hypothetical:

These two teams face off in another series just like this one, where the only difference is Lebron and Curry switch teams.

What would you expect from this series?
Click to expand...

A Warriors sweep, it's an absurd question though. Teams are formed around players strengths and weaknesses.
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
offtopic said:
And what is with the "LeBron isn't getting any help!" narrative? The next top three scorers on the Cavs went for a combined 43 and the next top three scorers on the dubs also went for 43 (one one those was Barbosa lol). At what point are you not getting any help? How is that defined?

When you play iso shit-ball of course other players will have less numbers. I would agree that it was a bad decision by LeBron to not play Mozgov.
Click to expand...

Lol @ stopping at the next three. The whole point is the Warriors are way way way deeper with the Cavs current injury situation. Not two or three dudes deeper. Let's compare the Cavs and Warrios 5-9th scorers, shall we?
 
T

Trey

Member
perfectchaos007 said:
The hate stems from the people who tout him as the greatest of all time. He's a GREAT player, and one of the best of this generation, but he's about to fall to 2-4 in NBA finals. Let's not forget he plays in the Eastern conference where making it to a final is a cakewalk compared to the West. If he moves to a western conference team and wins a title I would have a lot more praise for him.
Click to expand...

The point is he got to the Finals. It's an impressive feat, and he had to defeat some decent ball clubs as his team started to succumb to injuries.

It's not a cakewalk, never is, and it's stupid to belittle that achievement.

Golden State is simply a better, deeper team.
 
E

effzee

Member
perfectchaos007 said:
The hate stems from the people who tout him as the greatest of all time. He's a GREAT player, and one of the best of this generation, but he's about to fall to 2-4 in NBA finals. Let's not forget he plays in the Eastern conference where making it to a final is a cakewalk compared to the West. If he moves to a western conference team and wins a title I would have a lot more praise for him.
Click to expand...

Who touts him as the greatest of all time?

Pointing to the finals record is devoid of any context or logic. His teams, cept the Mavs, finals lost to the better teams. In fact his two rings could be argued were against better teams who they upset.

See this is why these arguments are stupid. He is being punished for losing in the finals. For reaching the finals. Had he only made the finals 2 times and won, people would think that's better? Losing in the first round or 2nd is better?

Why should he go to the west? Is the goal winning the final or going through the toughest road possible so that fans who have no sense can somehow consider him worthy enough? Hell if players were smart they'd migrate more to the East to try to win. It also would help balance the league.

Just say you don't like him and move on. Inventing stupid ass reasons when he is putting up great #S and leading a team of lower level players in the finals is denying everything you can logically see.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
effzee said:
No shit. This is the first time he's averaged so many shots. Lebron has never been a volume shooter. He has to be in this series. But you think this is how he always plays or wants to?

I said it before the series a more efficient Lebron is averaging 25-30 points while being near a triple double every night. That all went out the window with Love and Irving out.

Even with Miami they were at their best when he was facilitating and getting all those shooters in space.

On these Cavs every time he subs out they look like lost school kids playing in traffic.
Click to expand...

Look, I agree that he doesn't have a better choice. Playing ISO ball and crashing the boards like maniacs, slowing the game down and playing good D is really the only option the Cavs have. I'm not sure whether he wants to play this way or not. My inclination is to believe that he would prefer to play this way and have the Warriors miss a bunch of shots they normally make and win the series. But he would rather just win the series regardless of offensive philosophy.

However, my point is that people/media are glorifying his stats when they aren't all that impressive considering their play style and his usage rate. I propose that Curry could probably score more (and draw double teams almost every time) if Kerr just went insane and decided to play the same way. That said, I am impressed at how hard LeBron has been playing and still making pretty good decisions all things considered.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
CHRV5vkUYAAHNDR.jpg:large
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
CassidyIzABeast said:
you basically just asked us "if you put Lebron on the better team what would happen?"
Click to expand...

Yeah, I did ask you that. Because we all know Lebron with that team would sweep the hypothetical Curry led Cavs in a 20 game series. Curry could never do what Lebron has done these Finals. It's silly to ignore that.

Also silly to ignore that the better team is about to win these finals with the help of a beautiful performance from the league MVP.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
LeBron has a winning Finals record if he was on the other teams that beat him.
Click to expand...

Damn, this one got me.

Jpi9CvA.gif


It's funny man, the series isn't even over yet but people are in here providing laughs like it is. Guess I might as well take it all in just in case it all goes wrong. This has been the most hilarious aftermath of the series yet.
 
E

effzee

Member
neptunes said:
hopefully he misses the finals next year, if only to improve the quality of discussion in these threads. it's been 5 years,
I wonder if finals threads would still be as one-note and predictable without his appearance.
Click to expand...

Nah then they'd be shitting up the thread with LOL best player in the world? Couldn't even make the finals in the East.

See they have it all covered. If he wins cause he took the easy road. If he loses lol he Sucks.
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
effzee said:
Yup you heard here first folks. Lebron, who most know and recognize as the current best player in the league, is actually the problem on this team. Too ball dominant. Remove him and they can play team ball and win!
Click to expand...
Not saying that. In short, going forward in his career after this series, he just needs to stop playing the 1 and the 2 at the same time. Even when he's loaded with talent, his offense always comes down to him and his shooters.
 
D

Dion Blaster

Member
offtopic said:
And what is with the "LeBron isn't getting any help!" narrative? The next top three scorers on the Cavs went for a combined 43 and the next top three scorers on the dubs also went for 43 (one one those was Barbosa lol). At what point are you not getting any help? How is that defined?

When you play iso shit-ball of course other players will have less numbers. I would agree that it was a bad decision by LeBron to not play Mozgov.
Click to expand...

Because those players suck compared to the Warriors players an wouldn't score nearly as many points without Lebron on the court.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
piratethingy said:
Lol @ stopping at the next three. The whole point is the Warriors are way way way deeper with the Cavs current injury situation. Not two or three dudes deeper. Let's compare the Cavs and Warrios 5-9th scorers, shall we?
Click to expand...

At the next three (4-7) the Warriors outscore the Cavs 22-18 which is something you'd expect from a team that shares the ball and asks everyone to take open shots. That is what the LeBron glorifiers are missing...he doesn't get support because that is officially not part of the game plan.

While Curry gets more support and has a superior offensive system, his presence on the floor is absolutely essential the Warriors success. Although I don't have the numbers for the playoffs, the Warriors +/- was among the top teams of all times for the regular season. Do you realize that when Curry wasn't on the floor that number was actually negative? They go from a historically great team to one with a losing record. That is mind-blowing.
 
E

effzee

Member
offtopic said:
Look, I agree that he doesn't have a better choice. Playing ISO ball and crashing the boards like maniacs, slowing the game down and playing good D is really the only option the Cavs have. I'm not sure whether he wants to play this way or not. My inclination is to believe that he would prefer to play this way and have the Warriors miss a bunch of shots they normally make and win the series. But he would rather just win the series regardless of offensive philosophy.

However, my point is that people/media are glorifying his stats when they aren't all that impressive considering their play style and his usage rate. I propose that Curry could probably score more (and draw double teams almost every time) if Kerr just went insane and decided to play the same way. That said, I am impressed at how hard LeBron has been playing and still making pretty good decisions all things considered.
Click to expand...

I don't get what you don't get.

This is the only way Cavs can play and even then after game 1 people were all but assured they would be swept.

Lebron has never played iso ball and this is a first in terms of minutes, shots, ball dominance. But that he is doing it and led the team to 2 wins is what's impressive. Averaging a triple double is phenomenal.

Like I said he can't win. When with Miami is fg% and efficiency was through the roof people said yeah well he has such a great cast and he is a front runner. Now that he is leading this team by himself we are going to pick at his fg%? If this was with Kyrie and Love there then yes but that'S not how they were playing before.

Whatever I'm going to bed. Can't believe how the discussion hasn't evolved in the past 5 years. It's hard to comment on the games when the same group of Lebron haters shit up every discussion.
 
D

Dion Blaster

Member
offtopic said:
You'll have to give me statistical proof from the regular season. I just supplied it for Curry (see post above).
Click to expand...
It's a bit hard to do that when this team is completely different from the regular season team. You're getting players who are not used to playing many minutes having to play most of the game.
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
offtopic said:
At the next three (4-7) the Warriors outscore the Cavs 22-18 which is something you'd expect from a team that shares the ball and asks everyone to take open shots. That is what the LeBron glorifiers are missing...he doesn't get support because that is officially not part of the game plan.

While Curry gets more support and has a superior offensive system, his presence on the floor is absolutely essential the Warriors success. Although I don't have the numbers for the playoffs, the Warriors +/- was among the top teams of all times for the regular season. Do you realize that when Curry wasn't on the floor that number was actually negative? They go from a historically great team to one with a losing record. That is mind-blowing.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what Curry's brilliance has to do with this discussion. Curry being the best shooter of all time doesn't have anything to do with it.

I just don't know what you want Lebron to do? Sit back and let a hyperactive D-league PG handle the ball for the whole finals?
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
offtopic said:
And what is with the "LeBron isn't getting any help!" narrative? The next top three scorers on the Cavs went for a combined 43 and the next top three scorers on the dubs also went for 43 (one one those was Barbosa lol). At what point are you not getting any help? How is that defined?

When you play iso shit-ball of course other players will have less numbers. I would agree that it was a bad decision by LeBron to not play Mozgov.
Click to expand...
Nice.
offtopic said:
So, I'm super impressed with LeBron's effort this series but, just like WestFraud through a month or two, his numbers are the byproduct of a highly inefficient philosophy. They can bludgeon their way to 35-40% shooting every game playing this shit-ball and hope the Warriors don't make their normal shots. In doing so LeBron's usage rate is astronomically high and that doesn't even count his crashing the defensive boards on every play for rebounds. I guess I'm not super impressed with huge numbers produced at a low percentage when you take every shot and the other team doesn't double team you.

People saying he is way outplaying Curry...I'm not so sure even though Curry hasn't been as hot as he can be. It is almost impossible to compare as the offensive philosophies are completely different - the warriors play a ball movement game while the Cavs just iso every single play and then crash the boards when shots go up. OF COURSE the numbers will be unbalanced.

I mean, if Curry just ran around jacking up contested 3s he would probably still hit 33%. If he took LeBron's 40 shots/game that equates to 13 3s or 39 points per game. I just wouldn't find that as impressive as, obviously, a lot of LeBron fans would. I'd rather have him average 25 and have the team play as they do now.
Click to expand...
offtopic said:
Look, I agree that he doesn't have a better choice. Playing ISO ball and crashing the boards like maniacs, slowing the game down and playing good D is really the only option the Cavs have. I'm not sure whether he wants to play this way or not. My inclination is to believe that he would prefer to play this way and have the Warriors miss a bunch of shots they normally make and win the series. But he would rather just win the series regardless of offensive philosophy.

However, my point is that people/media are glorifying his stats when they aren't all that impressive considering their play style and his usage rate. I propose that Curry could probably score more (and draw double teams almost every time) if Kerr just went insane and decided to play the same way. That said, I am impressed at how hard LeBron has been playing and still making pretty good decisions all things considered.
Click to expand...

I'm feeling all of this. I have the help tonight that LeBron apparently doesn't.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
So next game do we finally see the Splash Brothers show up to close this thing or what? As it's been said, we've but seen them do their thing in a game this series. It's been one or the other.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
effzee said:
I wouldn't say hate. I'd say stupid.

As always NBA gaf is pretty much 90% stupid know it alls who know nothing at all. All conversation is formulated based on dislike of Lebron. Any and everything is then twisted into him doing or saying wrong.

He could cure cancer and they'd say "but Jordan would have cured world hunger".
Click to expand...
As it shall always be.
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
Bluekaveli said:
So next game do we finally see the Splash Brothers show up to close this thing or what? As it's been said, we've but seen them do their thing in a game this series. It's been one or the other.
Click to expand...
I'd love to see them rain threes and drive all the fans out of the arena early, but I don't know if the NBA will be denied its 7 games.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
The crazy thing about this whole help narrative is that outside of Delly and Tristan, everybody getting minutes are the players Lebron hand picked to to play with him.

Mike Miller
James Jones
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert
Shawn Marion
Kendrick bleeping Perkins
Mosgov

He approved all those guys.
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
CassidyIzABeast said:
The crazy thing about this whole help narrative is that outside of Delly and Tristan, everybody getting minutes are the players Lebron hand picked to to play with him.

Mike Miller
James Jones
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert
Shawn Marion
Kendrick bleeping Perkins
Mosgov

He approved all those guys.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he picked the deep bench shooters he'd like to come in for small stretches to keep him, Kyrie, Love, etc fresh.

Now that those guys are playing 34 minutes they should still be good right!?
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
piratethingy said:
I don't understand what Curry's brilliance has to do with this discussion. Curry being the best shooter of all time doesn't have anything to do with it.

I just don't know what you want Lebron to do? Sit back and let a hyperactive D-league PG handle the ball for the whole finals?
Click to expand...

No. Read what I've been writing. I agree the Cavs don't have much choice since the only thing they have is an Iso playbook and nobody to create other than LeBron. But whose fault is that really to have that lack of a playbook?

My point is that LeBron's numbers that people are circle-jerking about are a byproduct of that shit-ball. "OMG TRIPLE DUBBLE!", "40 POINTS AGAINT WTF GOAT!!!!!". Get a grip. He is playing well but his numbers are hyper inflated by the shit-ball he is required to play to have any prayer of winning the series. Even then that prayer requires the Warriors to just go cold from the field.
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
Anyway, this is clearly pointless.

I want some of you to watch me do something amazing here before I head to bed:

I cannot stand Kevin Garnett. I think he's a prick and a fake tough guy and I can't stand the Celtics.

Kevin Garnett is an all time great who, at his prime, was a generational superstar and deserved his championship.

He was really really really good at basketball and I absolutely hate him.

See guys? Just admit it! It's not that bad! They still let me watch the games!
 
paolo11

paolo11

Member
Curry showed his shooting prowess tonight but gotta give credit to Lebron for 40 points plus triple double performance.

Can't wait for game 6.
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
offtopic said:
No. Read what I've been writing. I agree the Cavs don't have much choice since the only thing they have is an Iso playbook and nobody to create other than LeBron. But whose fault is that really to have that lack of a playbook?

My point is that LeBron's numbers that people are circle-jerking about are a byproduct of that shit-ball. "OMG TRIPLE DUBBLE!", "40 POINTS AGAINT WTF GOAT!!!!!". Get a grip. He is playing well but his numbers are hyper inflated by the shit-ball he is required to play to have any prayer of winning the series. Even then that prayer requires the Warriors to just go cold from the field.
Click to expand...

So the two all stars sitting on his bench in suits have nothing to do with the way Lebron is running the team? It's a playbook problem that would be happening if Kyrie and Love were out there? Wow.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
piratethingy said:
So the two all stars sitting on his bench in suits have nothing to do with the way Lebron is running the team? It's a playbook problem that would be happening if Kyrie and Love were out there? Wow.
Click to expand...

I would propose that their best chance to win would be to play this shit-ball even with those two out there. We know that was their choice when Kyrie was in the line-up in game one. Thompson is an infinitely better defender and offensive rebounder than Love so not sure that he would even be playing that much.

Still ignoring my main point though that LeBron's numbers, to a large extent, are a by-product of the system they are playing. I actually think he is playing really well but just not to this orgasmic state other people seem to believe based on just "the numbers!".
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
Gotta watch NBATV to keep the highlights and analysis going since ESPN is bullshitting. They're real quick to talk baseball right now.
 
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