ButtonMasher
Member
Your thoughts? I was looking around at upcomming release lists just on the current consoles and it looks pretty grim on the 2D end. I'm sure Japan devs will continue over there.
2D a thing of the past Next Gen?(U.S. home consoles)
- Thread starter ButtonMasher
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Warm Machine
Member
jarrod said:
PSP does have Dark Stalkers coming out on it. Lack of 2d hardware itself means nothing to the availability of 2d games.
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Yeah, no kidding. The variety of 2D shooters available on PS2 (mostly import) speaks volumes.Warm Machine said:
Games in 2D have been dead on home consoles for awhile now. Besides a few fighters and things like Metal Slug or Alien Hominid, most developers seem to prefer (or are encouraged) to go 3D. Shumps, for instance, are all 3D these days despite the fact that the choice is mostly cosmetic.
I hope we see more 2D on the DS, but I'm expecting more developers to use the 3D hardware that's available in spite of the kind of things they can pump out now. And in the case of the PSP, that is certainly going to be true--I'm still surprised that it's getting a Darkstalkers game while many of the announced games are comparable PS2 ports or remixes.
I think that in a couple of years, 2D's last home is going to be in homebrew development.
I hope we see more 2D on the DS, but I'm expecting more developers to use the 3D hardware that's available in spite of the kind of things they can pump out now. And in the case of the PSP, that is certainly going to be true--I'm still surprised that it's getting a Darkstalkers game while many of the announced games are comparable PS2 ports or remixes.
I think that in a couple of years, 2D's last home is going to be in homebrew development.
PSP has some 2D games coming sure, but over half of the revealed DS lineup happens to use sprites. I think DS is going to be rather 2D heavy actually, while 2D PSP games will likely be restricted to the same infrequent 2D games appearing on consoles (fighters, shooters & puzzlers aimed at the hardcore arcade gamer mainly).Warm Machine said:
ButtonMasher
Member
Well, after playing Contra SS, Gradius V and Ikaruga, I must say it's pretty impressive. 3D graphics with 2D gameplay that is. Same goes for the Street Fighters 3 games, I thought the animation was impressive.
It'd be a shame, not to get anymore games in the 2D gamplay department on home consoles. Don't get me wrong, I love 3D also.
It'd be a shame, not to get anymore games in the 2D gamplay department on home consoles. Don't get me wrong, I love 3D also.
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Judging by what's available in the US, sure, but Cave is sticking to 2D for the time being. It'll be interesting to see whether Sengoku Cannon is 2D or 3D.ge-man said:
SonicMegaDrive
Member
2D will never die in my eyes so long as my NES, Saturn, and Genesis consoles still function.
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Here, here, as well as my PC Engine, SNES, and Dreamcast.SonicMegaDrive said:
Question - when you all say "2D" are you referring to gameplay or graphics? Because if you're referring to graphics then I have to say your complaints are more than a little silly. Just because the graphical style is different doesn't mean the basic gameplay is. Look at Viewtiful Joe or Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. 3D graphics, but the same old school 2D gameplay.
CrimsonSkies
Member
Yeah. I won't miss it.
2d is a thing of the past in this generation. Hell even last generation. It's unfortunate but that the way things go. Black and white tv's aren't made anymore, there are no new model t's and all airplanes are made of metal, not wood. Hopefully game designers will improve their games next generation, giving us the gameplay of 2d with the graphics of 3d, not to metion quality art direction and a damn camera we don't have to fight with.
Sigh... I love sprite-based graphics still, many times preferring them to polygons. There's still a place for lush 2D, look at the backgrounds in Baten Kaitos. 2-D sprite based stuff will probably still be the same way it is in these past 2 generations.
Littleberu
Banned
android said:
There are still black and white movies, a lot of hand painted arts and also a lot of black and white pictures.
soundwave05
Member
2D is probably done, however with cell-shading and the massive jump in horse power next generation, in theory you could have games with close to Disney-styled or Japanese anime level animation that could be "2.5D"
Even with a 2D animated show like South Park, I believe all the models and what not are actually 3D models. I could see something similar happening with games like that.
Even with a 2D animated show like South Park, I believe all the models and what not are actually 3D models. I could see something similar happening with games like that.
His point was that it certainly isn't looking like Cave is about to quit with the spriteage anytime soon. Both their new games (Mushihimesama and Ibara) are pure 2D. Actually, "pure" is probably a lie as both DAI-OU-JOU and Espgaluda had pre-rendered bosses.ge-man said:
Personally, my thought about 2D/3D and all is that it'll all even out. Once graphics kind of plateau, games will need to rely more on style than on polycounts to stand out. That's when 2D will become the game equivalent of a black and white film, or something.
Your right about photos and art. But what was the last mainstream film you saw that was black and white? There are still 2d games today but they don't sell. At least a film has the chance of winnng awards, allowing the director to move on. In the game industry if you don't sell you don't get a sequel, like ICO or Nights. In a few years we are all going to have to buy hdtv's or convertors because the public and the industry demands it. When films went from silent to "talkies", they weren't very good. Stars like Chaplin and Keaton couldn't transition over. But after a few years the Hitchcocks, Coppolas and Kubricks started appearing. I think this is the time period we are in now in games. We will probably be longing for the age of the great 3d games when we are playing holographic or virtual reality games in the future.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
2D won't die and is far from dead, whether its just a cosmetic perspective or sprites are actually used. There's still plenty of potential for 2D in gaming, its just woefully underexplored. I appreciate that developers such as SNK, S-E, Sammy, Treasure, Nippon Ichi, Konami, Capcom and Nintendo employ the use of 2D in their games.
I wonder what this generation would have been like if Nintendo was a 3D Nazi like Sony is. There would have never been a Viewtiful Joe on any console, that's for sure. Yeah, I know, Sony lets 2D games happen, but its bosom buddies like Konami, Sega, Nippon Ichi and Sammy. They totally shafted SNK last year and for a while, VJ's PS2 potential was looking hazy at best. Even a full 3D game like Killer 7 looked like it wouldn't come to PS2 because of its unique visual style, but thankfully someone knocked some sense into them.
I'm really getting sick of the obsession with realism in gaming, its a dead end street and we're almost there. Just look to Elder Scrolls IV and Quake IV now, how much futher can we go? At some point, its going to have to go deeper than being 3D and looking real. I think people who use a more stylized approach realize that, which is why 2D games and styles like like cel-shading exist.
When I see games like Rez, Ico, VJ, P.N. 03, Disgaea, Jet Set Radio, Mark of Kri, Wind Waker, Four Swords or Tron 2.0, SMT Nocturne, I see the visual potentials gaming could have, but these days, all that is discouraged in favor of looking "real."
What some people can't grasp is 2D isn't a technological defect, its a STYLE, both in gameplay and graphics.
I wonder what this generation would have been like if Nintendo was a 3D Nazi like Sony is. There would have never been a Viewtiful Joe on any console, that's for sure. Yeah, I know, Sony lets 2D games happen, but its bosom buddies like Konami, Sega, Nippon Ichi and Sammy. They totally shafted SNK last year and for a while, VJ's PS2 potential was looking hazy at best. Even a full 3D game like Killer 7 looked like it wouldn't come to PS2 because of its unique visual style, but thankfully someone knocked some sense into them.
I'm really getting sick of the obsession with realism in gaming, its a dead end street and we're almost there. Just look to Elder Scrolls IV and Quake IV now, how much futher can we go? At some point, its going to have to go deeper than being 3D and looking real. I think people who use a more stylized approach realize that, which is why 2D games and styles like like cel-shading exist.
When I see games like Rez, Ico, VJ, P.N. 03, Disgaea, Jet Set Radio, Mark of Kri, Wind Waker, Four Swords or Tron 2.0, SMT Nocturne, I see the visual potentials gaming could have, but these days, all that is discouraged in favor of looking "real."
What some people can't grasp is 2D isn't a technological defect, its a STYLE, both in gameplay and graphics.
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This is more true now than ever. As technology continues to become less and less of a barrier to game design, art design is going to become more and more important, and 2D art will always be a relevant style. It's been so long since console vendors sought to distinguish their 32-bit consoles from the "old" 16-bit systems by excluding 2D that 2D and 3D games are no longer in direct competition. There are genres and gameplay styles to which 2D is better-suited and more feasible, while there are genres to which 3D is clearly more complementary. Neither style needs to exclude the other in order to exist. 2D hasn't died yet, even after all the doomsaying during the current and previous generations, and I think it's here to stay.Foobar said:
With the rising cost of 3D games, I'd imagine alot of the small developers will continue to make 2D games. Although, with the increasing power of handhelds, these projects could be moved from console. But I bet there will still be many on console still. It didn't die out in 32bit, nor 128bit gen like some predicted, I don't think it will next gen either.
With the extra power, they can make even better looking 2D games with even higher resolution sprites/backgrounds.
With the extra power, they can make even better looking 2D games with even higher resolution sprites/backgrounds.
jiggle said:With the rising cost of 3D games, I'd imagine alot of the small developers will continue to make 2D games. Although, with the increasing power of handhelds, these projects could be moved from console. But I bet there will still be many on console still. It didn't die out in 32bit, nor 128bit gen like some predicted, I don't think it will next gen either.
With the extra power, they can make even better looking 2D games with even higher resolution sprites/backgrounds.
Now those are nice looking 2-d sprites!!!
GIVE ME MORE OF THAT BUT BETTER!!!
Sprite tech just hasn't evolved much it's retarded!
Is that from Aterlier Iris: Eternal Mana?
because if it's not AI:EM looks pretty sweet too.
edit: And in defense of Sony, their beef wasn't "oh noz, your game is 2d", it was "we're not going to let you release a ugly-ass 2d fighter for the full $50 price point"
It was SNK's choice to bundle them (or not, as the case of Metal Slug).
because if it's not AI:EM looks pretty sweet too.
edit: And in defense of Sony, their beef wasn't "oh noz, your game is 2d", it was "we're not going to let you release a ugly-ass 2d fighter for the full $50 price point"
It was SNK's choice to bundle them (or not, as the case of Metal Slug).
The thing I love best about 2D games is the simplicity of the gameplay. Maybe if they can refine 3D gameplay to the point where it is as tight as 2D games I would enjoy more 3D games. When I play a Castlevania game on the SP I am never worrying about the camera or wondering where to go next, all you worry about is killing the enemies and staying alive.
anotheriori
Member
as far as major developers:
Arc Systems (Sammy) responsible for Guilty Gear Series
SNK (last original remain 2D dev.)
Arc Systems (Sammy) responsible for Guilty Gear Series
SNK (last original remain 2D dev.)
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
I like 2D graphics, quite a lot actually, but they can die if the industry needed them to.
2D gameplay on the other hand, I sincerely want to stay healthy.
2D gameplay on the other hand, I sincerely want to stay healthy.
2D isn't just about visuals, it's about the game mechanic. Some games benefit from being 2D. It is also worth noting that I have never played Yoshi's Island before, until a couple of days ago. And it has held my attention longer than most modern games already. People should not be so quick to dismiss 2D, if anything is forces the developers to concentrate on the actual gameplay rather than super expensive movie-like production values.
2D gameplay, I believe, is much more masterful than 3D gameplay. This is just a function of the nature of our displays. TV, computer screens, and projectors are 2D displays, so any 3D game is still going to be represented in 2D, meaning you're missing a dimension when viewing it. Since 2D gameplay is designed for 2D displays, you're getting everything the game has to offer, and a more complete gaming experience is to be had.
I know this sounds like vague mumbo jumbo, but it's a very conceptual thing that's hard to explain.
By the way, you can have 3D games with 2D gameplay, such as racers. In racing games, since the road is moving under a vehicle that is basically stationary on the Z axis, you're just controlling the vehicle in 2 dimensions. In a case such as this any others, 3D helps gain a better perspective on the game, simply augmenting the 2D gameplay. And it works wonders -- F-Zero GX.
This is why Z-/L-targetting, one of Nintendo's more ingenious ieas, is so brilliant: it eliminates gameplay in 1 dimension, temporarily, so the player can go back to playing a 2D game on a 2D display.
Until 3D displays are mastered, 2D gameplay will be the best fit for 2D displays.
I know this sounds like vague mumbo jumbo, but it's a very conceptual thing that's hard to explain.
By the way, you can have 3D games with 2D gameplay, such as racers. In racing games, since the road is moving under a vehicle that is basically stationary on the Z axis, you're just controlling the vehicle in 2 dimensions. In a case such as this any others, 3D helps gain a better perspective on the game, simply augmenting the 2D gameplay. And it works wonders -- F-Zero GX.
This is why Z-/L-targetting, one of Nintendo's more ingenious ieas, is so brilliant: it eliminates gameplay in 1 dimension, temporarily, so the player can go back to playing a 2D game on a 2D display.
Until 3D displays are mastered, 2D gameplay will be the best fit for 2D displays.
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
You control the craft in 3 dimensions every time you jump. It could be said that shades of this were in even the first F-Zero. Bad example.Mihail said:
What the hell does this mean?