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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying (Update: sentenced)

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Dead Man

Member
Tried to search, keep on getting 504s, 400's and database errors, apologies if it is old.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/2nd-child-pa-couple-dies-praying-19020607#.UXZ2K3n8K6o

A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.


Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.

Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.

"There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."

A man who answered the phone at a listing for Herbert Schaible declined to comment and hung up.

A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.


The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.

At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.

"You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Prosecutors on Monday sought to have the couple jailed, but Lerner permitted them to remain free because their seven other children had been placed in foster care.

"He feels they are a danger to their children — not to the community, but to their own children," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore, who prosecuted the couple in 2010, said Tuesday.

Herbert Schaible, 44, and his 43-year-old wife grew up in the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia and have served as teachers there. The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing — From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.

"It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.


A phone message left with the church on Tuesday was not immediately returned.

The church's pastor said in 2010 that the couple had never received medical care themselves beyond the help of a lay midwife who attends home births.

The Schaibles did take their children for medical checkups as required by their probation, according to Jayaraman, the defense attorney. Jayaraman said that Brandon was checked by a doctor when he was 10 days old, but she did not know whether the child had seen a doctor since.

"Nobody argues that these aren't very loving, nurturing parents," she said Tuesday. "Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."

Uh huh. If your seven living kids are taken away, having another kid and then killing it with neglect seems like it needs jail.
 

neobiz

Member
"Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."

I think we do if they pray instead of pay (a doctor)
 

Keyouta

Junior Member
People should tell them that the doctors are put there by God to help them, maybe they'll want to go then?

Yeah, they need to go to jail though.
 

see5harp

Member
curb-your-enthusiasm-season3-8.jpg
 

blackflag

Member
Lock them up forever. Seriously. Your children aren't your property. You don't have the right to deny them healthcare because of your religion....well you shouldn't be able to.
 

Zoe

Member
They need to go to jail. The judge says they're only a harm to their children, but what if they have more even though the rest have been taken away.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
Reminds me of the story of the guy lost at sea.

Short paraphrased version:

Guy is lost as sea, a boat comes by but the guy waves it off. God will save me! A helicopter comes by but he again waves it off. Finally a whale approaches but he clings to his life raft.

He drowns and then asks god why he didn't save him. God says "I sent a boat, a plane and a whale"
 

Dead Man

Member
Reminds me of the story of the guy lost at sea.

Short paraphrased version:

Guy is lost as sea, a boat comes by but the guy waves it off. God will save me! A helicopter comes by but he again waves it off. Finally a whale approaches but he clings to his life raft.

He drowns and then asks god why he didn't save him. God says "I sent a boat, a plane and a whale"

Heh. It's funny when it is a lone dickhead :)
 

EulaCapra

Member
They have seven other kids already in foster care. Seven.

I think it's time for these parents to go away... from the living plane.
 

Zoe

Member
They have seven other kids already in foster care. Seven.

I think it's time for these parents to go away... from the living plane.

I read it like their other children were taken away because of this new instance. If not, that means they chose to keep having children after the state deemed them not fit to have children :\
 
They shouldn't be sent to jail, they should simply not be allowed to adopt and be forcibly rendered sterile.

That's all well and good except that they've killed 2 children due to criminal neglect. Our country's kid gloves when it comes to religious beliefs is what led to them only getting probation the first time.
 

Camp Lo

Banned
There's no basis for this in Christianity.

Luke was a doctor for crying out loud.

They prefer holistic medicine as taught in the bible as opposed to modern science, so yeah, it is in there. It comes down to how literal you want to take it.

What friggin bible verse even suggests this?!

Am I wrong to think that this sect should be held responsible as much a the parents themselves?!

http://www.gotquestions.org/holistic-medicine.html

Note: I'm not an advocate of this, just a curious bystander looking into it.
 
What friggin bible verse even suggests this?!

Am I wrong to think that this sect should be held responsible as much as the parents themselves?!
 

Dead Man

Member

Camp Lo

Banned
Holistic medicine is not no medicine.



That is not saying go holistic, that is saying don't go.

The maximizing of health is certainly line with the Scriptures. The Bible is clear that we are to take good care of our bodies (1 Corinthians 6:19-20) as they are the temple of the Holy Spirit. There are many verses that speak of using “medical treatments” such as applying bandages (Isaiah 1:6), oil (James 5:14), oil and wine (Luke 10:34), leaves (Ezekiel 47:12), wine (1 Timothy 5:23), and salves, particularly the “balm of Gilead” (Jeremiah 8:22). Many of these treatments would be considered holistic today, as holistic medicine often shies away from drugs and surgery at least as first treatments. In addition, many Christians have benefitted from principles embodied in holistic medicine.

Again, it's how literal you want to take the scriptures.

I fail to understand how trusting in medical help and pills is a sin...

gotquestions.org said:
It encourages participants to seek the answers to life's difficult questions within their own conscience instead of in the Word of God. It also leaves one open to deception from God's enemy, who searches for victims that he can turn away from God (1 Peter 5:8). For the Christian, meditation should center on the Word of God, His attributes, and the beauty of Jesus Christ, the Great Physician.
 
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