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[robo_robo]

It takes 1 second to turn around compared to 3 sec with a controller and 1/4 sec with a mouse.

By the way Red Steel is open-ended, you get missions from the masters in the game and can do them in the order you want. I'm not sure if the game will be open like GTA but it won't be a level by level FPS.

 

[Danydrunk]

It takes 1 second to turn around compared to 3 sec with a controller and 1/4 sec with a mouse.

By the way Red Steel is open-ended, you get missions from the masters in the game and can do them in the order you want. I'm not sure if the game will be open like GTA but it won't be a level by level FPS.

but the turning around is just a matter of tweaking the sensitivity, etc. I havent touched the revolution controller nor played red steel but it is quite obvious that developers can decide on the sensitivity of movement just like with any controller.

 

[SuperPac]

I don't get what this piece is trying to say. We see screenshots of an Ubi game and that means the Rev is doomed? (As if the system hasn't already been doomed via analysts and mainstream press that consider Nitnendo a non-runner in the console "wars.")

 

[M3wThr33]

It takes 1 second to turn around compared to 3 sec with a controller and 1/4 sec with a mouse.

How long did it take you to turn around with the Revmote?

 

[Beer Monkey]

I can't judge the Revmote until it's out. I can say how I'm excited to see how it turns out and say it could be worth a shot. That's a completely different ballpark from saying it sucks.

Yeah, about that, where did I say that it sucks? That's how you can tell the fanboys; by how they overreact.

I remember questioning the N64 and getting pissed with Super Mario 64, hating the controls. I learned to get used to it.

Wasn't really a problem for me. I was using analog controls on my Vectrex and my 5200 back in 1982. I can see how it'd be a problem for a little boy, though.

 

[Chris Remo]

Wasn't really a problem for me. I was using analog controls on my Vectrex and my 5200 back in 1982. I can see how it'd be a problem for a little boy, though.

Hahahahahaha, oh man what a post.

 

[Monk]

Yea, because i bought a 100 million PS2's and 25 million Xbox's. You're right, i'm clearly the only lone gamer who likes where the industry is going.

And before that 100 million psx's and 35million N64's. So there are a lot of gamers that have lost interest in gaming over the years.

 

[M3wThr33]

Yeah, about that, where did I say that it sucks? That's how you can tell the fanboys; by how they overreact.



Wasn't really a problem for me. I was using analog controls on my Vectrex and my 5200 back in 1982. I can see how it'd be a problem for a little boy, though.

Totally didn't read the rest of your post after the initial remark. Usually I don't have to when you make claims talking about how long it takes to use it.

Edit:
With this I'm out for lunch. This'll be fun when i get home later tonight.
I expect more pictures, though.

 

[civilstrife]

Yeah, about that, where did I say that it sucks? That's how you can tell the fanboys; by how they overreact.

Wasn't really a problem for me. I was using analog controls on my Vectrex and my 5200 back in 1982. I can see how it'd be a problem for a little boy, though.

And that's how you can tell the meanies.
that was completely uncalled for, meany.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

A thread runner-up is you.

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

 

[yoopoo]

Did people want the DS when they first saw it? General consensus was 'NO!' and it was likely to fail. People want it now.

Did people want MS' Origami when they first saw it? General consensus was 'NO!' Its a horible device and servers no purpose. ITS CRAP. IT'LL FAIL!

Well anyway...no one really knows what product they want till an idea comes around to the consumer, consumers dictates which idea will say and which will fail.

 

[jarosh]

hey guys, listen: because we think you are wrong in your enthusiasm about a product you're looking forward to, we have put together this unnecessarily long piece and offer it to you in a bouquet of condescension. later we will say it's not condescending, which is a free pass to write whatever we want, however derogatory we want.

what we know is that you are mentally ill, have a low iq and that nintendo hates you. sorry for being assholes. it's not personal. we are adults and you are stupid little kids.

i'm sure we have convinced you to join our side now. you know you're wrong, so just join us in our supremacy and you will grow up too.

 

[BatiGOOOOOOL]

This is one of the great mysteries of life for me.

How is it that FUCKING GAMES make people disrepect other people's tastes and opinions? FUCKING GAMES!!!

I'll never get it.

 

[Zenith]

1. Relating Sony to the "Toy Story" shit cooked up by journalists. Sony never said shit about Toy Story graphics - that was Microsoft. Find me one quote by a Sony executive which compares PS2 graphics to Toy Story.

2. The "more than twice what can even be perceived by the human eye" crap. Can we just shut the fuck up about this already? Different people can pick up different things in regards to framerate. Some people are more sensitive thant others.

wait, you don't like this article because it's slagging Sony?

Of course, that means that with any Revolution game you'll have to hold the controller perfectly level in your hand, or else your character will inadvertently stop to reload in the middle of the action or go diving behind something at an inopportune time.

That means a lot of uncomfortable fatigue in your wrists if you plan on playing all night (try holding your TV remote in front of you, keeping it level, for three hours). And that isn't a problem for the Rev target audience. It's not designed for people who play hours a day. It's designed for people who don't generally like to play games and get bored with them quickly. It's for the Freecell crowd.

this point concerns me. what if you do have to hold the revmote in the same general pose? you know how natural it is to let your TV remote flick downwards when you're pausing between channels. if you have to use the revmote's axis to execute commands then I don't really see how you can avoid this given the small number of buttons on it.

That kind of interactive controller, like the Eye Toy (the camera gadget for the PS2) and the dance pads for the DDR games and the plastic guitar for Guitar Hero... they have their place. But imagine if the PS3 turned out to be just a PS2 with an Eye Toy included. I think you'd say it was a cheap gimmick.

so true. I agree with pretty much everything the article said.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

so true. I agree with pretty much everything the article said.

nintendo has proven they can take a new interface and build complete game experiences around it (see ouendan, meteos, kirby), I really havent seen eyetoy evolve past minigame compilations. Fps is covered by the revmote, and the four buttons on the revmote means it will probably be able to handle most genres effectively with the exception of fighting games.

 

[Zenith]

the PS2's guncon has just as many buttons and the pointer. you could use it with most genres but would you want to?

 

[Chris Remo]

the PS2's guncon has just as many buttons and the pointer. you could use it with most genres but would you want to?

Not if the games in question aren't explicitly designed with that control mechanism in mind.

 

[radioheadrule83]

the PS2's guncon has just as many buttons and the pointer. you could use it with most genres but would you want to?

You can't see the flaws in this line of thought?

Its totally different from any controller, lightgun or Sony branded webcam you might have used before.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Of course they do. The difference between Nintendo and Sony/Microsoft is that two of these at least attempt to invest in something customers want. You don't see Sony or Microsoft attempting to regress the market for the sake of their pocketbooks.

That's not true. Nintendo is one of the only companies that cares enough about the customer's experience to work hard at eliminating load times in disk-based huge adventure games like Metroid Prime or TWW. Sony and Microsoft's philosophy on the matter is "Eh, they'll live with it."

 

[EmCeeGramr]

the PS2's guncon has just as many buttons and the pointer. you could use it with most genres but would you want to?

The guncon tracks one point on screen, the revolution can detect the tilt/angle/pitch/yaw in a 3d space, its much more versatile. The pointing aspect isnt the main feature of the revmote, its more of a byproduct of the 3d positioning sensor.

 

[Error]

the PS2's guncon has just as many buttons and the pointer. you could use it with most genres but would you want to?

:lol

 

[jaundicejuice]

At least they are trying to cater to gamers like me who have lost the spark.

You think a new way of interacting with largely "the same old software" is somehow The Answer to your ennui with the medium as it is today? Okay.

I know that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation, but using the Nintendo DS as a point of comparison because the supposed aim of the DS is the same as the Revolution, to provide developers with the tools to create new kinds of gaming experiences, I think it's a somewhat safe statement to currently make.

The vast majority of the best software currently on the DS is from both existing franchises that make suprious use of the hardware's unique features and largely focus on its greater technical capabilities compared to the GameBoy Advance models. Sonic Rush, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, Animal Crossing DS, Mario Kart DS, Super Mario 64 DS, Pheonix Wright: Ace Attourney--none of these games really require a touchscreen or second screen, and could've been possible on standard hardware with the same technical capabilities. The DS could've just been the GameBoy Evolution, and I would've been happy with it.

Anyhow, there's very little software that requires all of the DS's unique capabilities, that would not be able to function on any other hardware. Kirby's Canvas Curse, Metroid Prime Hunters, Nintendogs, Ouendan, Meteos (although I could envision this being played through more normal means minus a stylus) and...I can't think of another DS game that makes intergal use of the unique feature set.

There's been very little innovation on the DS as of now, wasn't that the whole point of the hardware? Even Nintendo struggling to make games with more than tacked on functionality of the hardware's more unique capabilities. What are some of the next big DS games? The New Super Mario Bros and The Legend of Zelda: The Phantom Hourglass, two more games that seem to make spurious use of the feature set again, and are largely "normal" games.

My point is, I don't see why people are looking at the Nintendo Revolution as though its new input deivce is some sort of Philosopher's Stone of Gaming. It's a 3D mouse, not this mystical relic that will take the kind of software so many seem to be suddenly tired of and make it palatable and interesting. It won't turn shovelware and mediocre games into triple A titles. It won't make devs stop suddenly using tired design crutches, make them program better A.I., ect., ect.

I'm not saying there's no potential for some new creative software, but it just seems some here, and on other forums, have these unrealistic expectations.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

:lol

I can't believe that so many people here still don't know how the revmote works. :\

 

[levious]

Is there a list of things that I'm allowed to be excited about in the videogame world?

 

[CajoleJuice]

Everybody owns a PS2 nowadays

Not me. :/

 

[Chris Remo]

Is there a list of things that I'm allowed to be excited about in the videogame world?

Graphics, apparently

 

[boredJonathan]

That's not true. Nintendo is one of the only companies that cares enough about the customer's experience to work hard at eliminating load times in disk-based huge adventure games like Metroid Prime or TWW. Sony and Microsoft's philosophy on the matter is "Eh, they'll live with it."

The flip side of this though is that they produced a disc that couldn't fit all of the content that both XBox and PS2 games could on one disc. Most times if the info was squeezed on to that one disc the fidelity of audio or video clips were degraded. I don't think its such a matter as Nintendo looking out for the customer's experience as a nice by product of a hard to pirate media. Besides, I don't think pinning loading times on the hardware companies is exactly fair either. That comes down to the developers and how much effort they want to put into avoiding loading times, (i.e. Halo 2. Despite the graphical flaws that came from it, you never encounted a load screen beyond the first one.)

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Not me. :/

well you're poor

 

[Battersea Power Station]

jaundicejuice, what you say is actually pretty intelligent.

However, it would only be true if the Rev controller is as underwhelming as the DS's touch control is. But everything we've heard about it from people that have used it leads me to believe it IS the controller that will replace the control stick. It's that effective.

If you think about it, the touch screen of the DS and the Rev control actually go in different directions. The greatest fault of the touch screen is that you are forced to make contact with it in order to manipulate the game. With the Rev control, since you're always holding it, your hand is ALWAYS the control. Tilt your hand slightly forward, and Mario will move forward as if you were tilting the control stick.

But I can't expect you, or me for that matter, to fully grasp the concept of the controller without experiencing it. Speculating sure is fun, though, and I'm glad you actually put some thought into your post.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

stuff.

What I like about the ds is both the traditional button stuff and the touch screen exclusive stuff. Its like having two different systems in one package. And for the record my library stands at an even 3/3 split for traditional and touch games.

Phantom hourglass is actually going to be entirely touchscreen controlled btw.

 

[Robobandit]

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

err sorry for not explaining myself.. someone else already claimed a "winner" for this thread, so for such a display of anti-fanboy wisdom, I was "awarding" you with second prize

 

[CajoleJuice]

well you're poor

Pretty much. I have to live with a Panda for Christ's sake.

 

[levious]

Phantom hourglass is actually going to be entirely touchscreen controlled btw.

it is?

 

[Justin Bailey]

1. It's bad to be a fanboy.

2. It's bad to be a fanboy before a product is out.

3. Fanboys love to fight.

4. By the way, Virtual Console sucks.

5. 80s Nintendo business practices sucked.

6. If something attracts a new audience, it must necessarily suck for the old audience.

7. Waggle wand non-game total! Your arms will get tired!

8. You cannot buy PS3 games to use on your Revolution.

9. Inflation shows that $400 and $500 consoles are a good thing. Also, inflation somehow makes 1999's $200 Dreamcast a cheaper launch than 2001's $200 GameCube.

10. Don't buy Revolution until 2008. Let the price drop, even though $400 would be a good deal.

11. Nintendo isn't really trying to be #1. Even though this has been the first fallback statement of the Nintendo apologist crowd for the last several years, I will now teach it to them.

12. Sorry if this article came off condescending, baby.

No one needs to read the actual article now.

 

[Y2Kev]

The DS has been a nice system to me because I like the games on it. The touch screen functionality has proved almost superfluous for everything I play except Metroid Prime Hunters.

In fact, I think Brain Age selling like nuts in Japan along with Nintendogs is kinda bad for gaming. Why develop real games if you are a small-budget studio if you can seriously make a personality survey you'd find in a magazine into a game and sell a billion copies of it? I had Nintendogs 10 years ago when it was called tamagotchi.

The Rev looks neat. I want to try one. I don't think it will replace controllers. I don't think it will attract nongamers.

Such is life.

 

[Snow]

it is?

That's what people deduced from the GDC trailer. That it would have touchscreen as its main interface device. No official word on it yet though.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I'm not saying there's no potential for some new creative software, but it just seems some here, and on other forums, have these unrealistic expectations.

To be fair, I think the DS is a totally different thing. Its got normal, rather quite-dated controls framing the screen(s). Its built to play old-style games (GBA backwards compatability says hello). So I'm not really surprised we have DS renditions of existing Nintendo and third party titles. In fact, I'm still quite impressed with some instances of touch screen, microphone and WiFi use so far..

And yeah -- I think the Rev is different. The Revolution controller doesn't look anything like any contemporary controller, or any classic one either. It looks like a TV remote. You hold it in one hand, unless you tether it to an analog attachment. People will make one hand games, two hand games, games that use one remote and one analog, maybe even games that use two remotes. THIS is a fundamental change in the interface that HAS to be adapted to, unless they go the way of the controller shell (which we've still heard nothing about).

I think you're right that many many of the existing game styles will be rehashed with these new controls, even by Nintendo themselves. But at the same time, surely you can see how, at the very least, more thought will be required before they will even be able to attempt doing so.

E3 is when Nintendo will have their opportunity to convince the media, and by extension, us. If its half as good as last year's impressions sounded, I have a strong feeling they will.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

blah blah blah

 

[Zenith]

I can't believe that so many people here still don't know how the revmote works. :\

I know how it works but the extra tilt won't make a difference with most genres. how will it feature in RTS, sports games, driving and the rest of it?

 

[levious]

I know how it works but the extra tilt won't make a difference with most genres. how will it feature in RTS, sports games, driving and the rest of it?

people like you don't make games I guess.

 

[Chris Remo]

I know how it works but the extra tilt won't make a difference with most genres. how will it feature in RTS, sports games, driving and the rest of it?

We should probably let the actual game designers figure that out. EA was one of the earliest publishers to comment on the controller, saying their sports games would see great benefit. I'm not going to buy their sports games on Revolution, just as I don't buy them on other consoles, but just because we aren't sitting here thinking of ways for sports games to work doesn't mean the people who actually make them aren't.

 

[kenta]

I like how this thread has become a pretty good reference point for the article itself

Fanboys be gettin all crazy up in here

 

[radioheadrule83]

I like how this thread has become a pretty good reference point for the article itself

Fanboys be gettin all crazy up in here

people post completely ignorant flame bait up in here too

 

[Chris Remo]

I like how this thread has become a pretty good reference point for the article itself

Fanboys be gettin all crazy up in here

Threads like these bring out the worst in everybody, be they fans, non-fans, fan-haters, or fan sympathizers.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

I know how it works but the extra tilt won't make a difference with most genres. how will it feature in RTS, sports games, driving and the rest of it?

"extra tilt"? We're talking about 2d control versus 3d control.

 

[Prine]

so true

 

[Oblivion]

In fact, I think Brain Age selling like nuts in Japan along with Nintendogs is kinda bad for gaming. Why develop real games if you are a small-budget studio if you can seriously make a personality survey you'd find in a magazine into a game and sell a billion copies of it?

While I don't care for BT or Nintendogs, I think GTA clones and the like are FAR more threatening to gaming then something like Nintendogs will EVER be.

 

[Maridia]

Not that some of the points here aren't somewhat valid, but being as the article is centered around a factual inaccuracy and basically loaded with the same brand loyalty bullshit that they try to call out, only in reverse, (which is even worse in my opinion) why is anyone taking this seriously?

 

[ghostlyjoe]

While I don't care for BT or Nintendogs, I think GTA clones and the like are FAR more threatening to gaming then something like Nintendogs will EVER be.

Who started this myth? Did the success of Final Fantasy spell the death of platformers?

Just because a game is successful, it doesn't suddenly mean that no one will ever explore another genre again.

 

[jaundicejuice]

What I like about the ds is both the traditional button stuff and the touch screen exclusive stuff. Its like having two different systems in one package. And for the record my library stands at an even 3/3 split for traditional and touch games.

Phantom hourglass is actually going to be entirely touchscreen controlled btw.

That kind of re-enforces the point I made above. It's still a Legend of Zelda, it still has the same core design I expect, you still probably progress through the game in the same fashion you have in every other Zelda, largely gain the same items, do what you always do in a Zelda game. If how you interact with the software is the only radical difference, how is that better? Legend of Zelda with touchscreen control, that's different? That's innovative?

Look, I don't care one whit about innovation so long as I have fun, and if it's a good game, I'll probably buy it, it's just that I don't see how the new input alone makes what is potentially the same kind of game we've been playing for years better or all that signifigantly different for those tired of gaming as is. Which seems to be the main reason so many are looking forward to the Revolution because they're tired of the status quo. Even Nintendo is somewhat struggling, in my eyes, to redefine gaming on the unique hardware they're creating.

Ubisoft's Red Steel is just some unknown quantity of first person shooter right now, albeit with a potentially superior controller set-up compared to other consoles. Supposedly standard games and genres are a problem, until they're on a new input device, then they're okay? That screams a bit of hypocrisy on some peoples parts.

And there's still so many unknowns at this point about the game. Red Steel might not, no scratch that, won't look as good as other FPS's by the time it's out--we don't even know what it looks like in motion, we just have an idea, an approximation of what it may look like from doctored screen shots, or projection video captures (*cough*SeeGRAW*cough*). But hey, it doesn't look too shabby, thus far, it's giving a nice hint at this systems capabilities, and even giving that whole "designing games in SD takes less power" theory some legs.

We don't know how good the A.I. is, if GRAW is any indication of the skill of Ubi's code monkies, I wouldn't hope for anything amazing. We don't what environmental interaction will be like, or if any physics are indeed being employed (kind of a standard now I'd think because of Half-Life 2)...there's just so many unknowns at this point for what is a fairly standard looking game that might only be unique or notably different because of its input device.

The new input isn't going to fix everything and make it all better...and honestly I don't quite understand the hype storm surrounding it, except for the fact that it's the first genuine bit of Revolution news since last years Tokyo Game Show.