-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
- Status
Hanging Freys in the Riverlands with the brotherhood without banners, waiting from Brienne to deliver Jaime to her.
I really don't remember much of this -_- I need to reread them again. I can't believe we have to wait till 2014 or 15 for the next one.
If the tv series keeps going till then he's gonna have to start writing them faster if they're planning on doing a season each year.
She is Stoneheart. You last see her the last Brienne chapter of AFFC.
Diatribe1974
Member
I fucking HATE Fed EX. Ordered the 1st 5 books off Amazon so I could read the entire series up to the most current (so I could naturally later watch the show and enjoy it both ways). Track the package from FedEX, says it's in my town (last Thursday) and I'm all happy and shit. When it doesn't show up, I check tracking again, they claim they "Attempted Delivery", but since there both wasn't any "Sorry we missed you" tag at my door, let alone any FedEX truck even going down my street that day, I call bullshit on their part. The next day, I find out they actually dropped it off at my local post office. Wut? I check my delivery address to make sure I set it to my physical address and not my PO Box. Yeah, it's coming here (as it should, I used the same address a week prior when I ordered the Blu-Ray of Game of Thrones).
TL;DR: FedEX are a bunch of lazy fuckers who didn't want to deliver an in-town package to my house and decided to let my local post office do their job for them.
TL;DR: FedEX are a bunch of lazy fuckers who didn't want to deliver an in-town package to my house and decided to let my local post office do their job for them.
Run.
RUN!
Do not return to this thread until you've read them all. Really. The story is good even if you get a "ZOMGTWIST" spoiler here and there, but I wouldn't risk it.
Diatribe1974
Member
Oh, I won't peek into this thread very much. I've got it subbed so after I've read the first 2-3 books, I'll pop back in. I know Martin writes massive tomes with his books, so I know I've got plenty of reading.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The spoilers are from TWOW sample chapters that were released
ZackieChan
Member
Don't do that either! Read them all first!
PhoenixDark
Banned
Watching this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flIHsZvC1SU&feature=player_embedded
I'm starting to wonder about the longevity of the show. Everything looks amazing, and the new acharacters/actors are great, but my concern is that as the show adds more and more new characters while replacing beloved characters, people will tune out. Will these new characters endear themselves to regular audiences as well as Dany, Arya, and Tyrion have for instance? Once the show gets to AFFC/ADWD it seems it could be harder to keep audiences attention. For instance will we see the Martel storylines from AFFC, or the Greyjoy storylines everyone seems to hate except for me? I can't imagine audiences being particularly interested in that stuff
Audiences will also put up with only so much abuse. I also wonder whether the deaths of the Starks will lead to people being frustrated at the show's gloomy arcs and lack of payback/retribution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flIHsZvC1SU&feature=player_embedded
I'm starting to wonder about the longevity of the show. Everything looks amazing, and the new acharacters/actors are great, but my concern is that as the show adds more and more new characters while replacing beloved characters, people will tune out. Will these new characters endear themselves to regular audiences as well as Dany, Arya, and Tyrion have for instance? Once the show gets to AFFC/ADWD it seems it could be harder to keep audiences attention. For instance will we see the Martel storylines from AFFC, or the Greyjoy storylines everyone seems to hate except for me? I can't imagine audiences being particularly interested in that stuff
Audiences will also put up with only so much abuse. I also wonder whether the deaths of the Starks will lead to people being frustrated at the show's gloomy arcs and lack of payback/retribution.
The Red Wedding is followed not that long after by Joffrey and Tywin's gruesome deaths (and also Jon becoming Lord Commander) so the audience will be thrown enough bones to offset the abuse somewhat.
arglebargle
Member
good video. the casting in general seems pretty good on the show (i have only watched the first couple episodes) but balon and qhorin are particularly inspired. they are exactly as i had pictured them and seem to really understand the characters.
Steelyuhas
Member
AFFC and ADWD being shown chronologically, and hopefully the Red Wedding in the forth season will not leave such a huge gap in time between the destruction of the Starks and the seeds of hope that the North will rise again and get their revenge, and their rightful place of power in the North.
But, yeah still, I'd say it's a concern.
I think the biggest problem facing the tv show is the gradual separation of the characters. In agot there are 3 main storylines that all have very cohesive arcs. Pov characters often interact with each other, allowing him to progress the same plot thread in different pov chapters, whilst also keeping the story contained. By books 4 and 5 all of the main characters are separated both narratively and geographically, so they all have their own sets of supporting characters leading to an enormous cast. Off the top of my head I can think of 10 independant storylines running in adfc/adwd. This coupled with your point in the addition of completely new character and parts of the world makes it just too big and too convoluted to do on tv; there will have to be huge changes.
Basileus777
Member
AFFC and ADWD are going to have to be heavily restructured and changed just to fit on a TV budget, whatever they end up being in the show will be much different.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, ADWD/AFFC can not be done as they are in the book. So it will be interesting to see how they do it. Do they risk alienating viewers by a ton of time with new characters at the expense of the more established (and in my opinion generally better) characters? They're going to need to restructure things a lot to get it to work.
There's a lot of repetition in the storylines for many of the characters in these two books that will get old after a few episodes. And also the many different locations will put a strain on the budget. I don't envy Dan and Dave the task of shaping these two books into compelling TV. I still think the best option is to fit both books in a season and a half (if not less).
There's a lot of repetition in the storylines for many of the characters in these two books that will get old after a few episodes. And also the many different locations will put a strain on the budget. I don't envy Dan and Dave the task of shaping these two books into compelling TV. I still think the best option is to fit both books in a season and a half (if not less).
You guys are assuming they'll even get to AFFC/ADWD on TV, which I wouldn't be so sure about. I could see the TV show ending after they finish the ASoS content.
Assuming they do get there though, I would imagine the best way would be to do AFFC/ADWD together as one season. I think that could easily be done. The obvious problem is that there would be some characters, like Arya or Sansa or Jaime, etc. who would only be in maybe 2 episodes of the season, which might not work very well for TV. The main arcs of Tyrion, Jon, Dany, and Cersei during those books can easily be handled it one season though. The problem is that there are just so many characters/locations/storylines going on by that point in the books that the season would feel very disjointed. The content itself can easily be covered in one season if you cut a lot of the filler/world building.
Assuming they do get there though, I would imagine the best way would be to do AFFC/ADWD together as one season. I think that could easily be done. The obvious problem is that there would be some characters, like Arya or Sansa or Jaime, etc. who would only be in maybe 2 episodes of the season, which might not work very well for TV. The main arcs of Tyrion, Jon, Dany, and Cersei during those books can easily be handled it one season though. The problem is that there are just so many characters/locations/storylines going on by that point in the books that the season would feel very disjointed. The content itself can easily be covered in one season if you cut a lot of the filler/world building.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I'd say the odds of getting to AFFC/ADWD is pretty good. The show has been rather successful so far and the creators have said they want to do about 8 seasons. So unless we see a spectacular decline in the ratings and people stop buying the merchandise, there's little reason for HBO not to go forward.
Hopefully. I'm just a little pessimistic about viewers getting tired of it and quitting after the Red Wedding. Hopefully the creators have the sense to not end a season on that, and make sure Joffrey and Tywin's deaths, as well as the UnCat reveal (this seriously needs to be the last scene of the season just like in the book. It's so perfect and chilling) are in the same season as RW.
Out of curiosity, since the UK release of Storm was in two parts, where did they end Part 1 at?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I'm not 100% sure but I think someone on here said that the first book ends with Jon escaping from the Wildlings.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm also doubtful about the series' future past ASOS. I'd imagine the show will get renewed shortly after April 1st, most likely to shoot two seasons back to back. That's a huge commitment that will have to be backed by some impressive ratings and DVD sales. HBO is already on record saying GoT is one of their most profitable shows (alongside True Blood) but given the costs, that can change quickly.
why wouldnt it tho? this was a worry before hbo released financials, but they've said this show and true blood are basically whats making them money at this point
they want this to keep going as long as possible
Steelyuhas
Member
As juicy at the idea of ending season 3 with the red wedding must be to the showrunners, it really should be in Season 4. If it happens in the middle of that season, not only will viewers get some redemption with evens after that, but I feel that the red wedding is the beginning of basically a rolling climax of many of the plot lines and character arcs of the first three novels. Having all those in the same season is important.
If they go with the same amount of content for each book covered during a season, they could have the Red Wedding on episode 9 and finish it off with Joffrey's death on a two hour season 3 finale. (with Beric reviving Cat to end the episode)
Then have the rest of ASOS/AFFC/ADWD happen in S4.
Then have the rest of ASOS/AFFC/ADWD happen in S4.
Steelyuhas
Member
That would be some crazy chronological mash up.
They've already said that ASOS will not be one season, and it will likely be two full seasons (with some stuff slide around). Red Wedding is almost exactly 2/3 through ASOS for reference.
I think they can cover a little more than 2/3rds during season 3, then have ASOS finish with as much AFFC and ADWD they can cover to end the next season. Martin has to finish up TWOW before season 5 in that case so I can see them stretching out the entirety of of book 3 to give him time.
Having a long chapter in a book doesn't necessarily mean anything considering how much time is spent on details. Also remember the world is being experienced through the eyes of the character. In the TV show we are seeing it from the outside so to speak. I think there are a lot of ways they can adapt feast for crows and dance with dragons.
I wonder if they'll just go with a similar split as the book has then. I don't remember a lot about the chronology of what happens in Storm until after the RW, so I'm not sure what event(s) they could use as a climax for the first season. I suppose Jon escaping the wildlings would be a really good way to end his arc. What about Dany sacking Astapor? Is that near the midpoint, or closer to the beginning? I could imagine that being a great scene to end a season on.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Red Wedding plus everything after it has to be in one season. It all just flows so fast and closely after that.
dead souls
Member
Yep. Four seasons covering the first three books is my guess for the totality of the show. People keep talking about how many seasons Benioff and Weiss want to do, but HBO dramas just don't run that long. Six seasons seems to be the limit, and that's for a game changing show like The Sopranos, and there's no chance GOT will ever be as important to HBO as it was.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Although to be fair The Sopranos ended because Chase decided to end it, not because HBO interfered. Based on ratings, the show could have lasted a few more seasons. Same with The Wire, although not so much based on ratings but critical acclaim. The show runners typically tend to move on.
I had thought Weiss/Benioff just wanted to do the Red Wedding, but they've said many times they want to do the entire series. I doubt it'll happen but we'll see
ThisWreckage
Banned
The Sopranos did not have the merchandising opportunities that shows like A Game of Thrones and True Blood does. Just look at HBO's shop and how much Game of Thrones stuff they have on there. Not to mention that the Blu Rays and DVDs are going to be enormously successful for HBO.
The ratings for Game of Thrones do not need to be exceptional as long as True Blood is around. True Blood is a merchandise and ratings juggernaut that can fuel other HBO shows for years and years.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that they should really do Storm of Swords in 2 complete seasons all on its own, without adding any of AFFC/ADWD to the end of season 4. The way that every single character arc ends in ASOS is just perfect for ending a season on, and making the UnCat reveal epilogue the final scene of the season would just be incredible (it's my favorite epilogue to anything ever, and one of my favorite scenes in the books). Adding on 3-5 episodes of AFFC/ADWD content after all that would just ruin the pacing of the season.
Plus, if they never got to move onto a season 5, ending the series on the climactic high notes would be better than starting all the new arcs introduced in the following books without finishing them.
edit: Also, interesting anecdote, I've never even heard of True Blood outside of Gaf, nor do I know anybody who watches it. But I know tons of people who have started watching Game of Thrones, many of which are far from the 18-35 male demographic (my aunt and my mom, both of whom are in their 50's, watch the show). I had no idea True Blood was such a ratings juggernaut.
Plus, if they never got to move onto a season 5, ending the series on the climactic high notes would be better than starting all the new arcs introduced in the following books without finishing them.
edit: Also, interesting anecdote, I've never even heard of True Blood outside of Gaf, nor do I know anybody who watches it. But I know tons of people who have started watching Game of Thrones, many of which are far from the 18-35 male demographic (my aunt and my mom, both of whom are in their 50's, watch the show). I had no idea True Blood was such a ratings juggernaut.
Steelyuhas
Member
Pretty good guess for the middle of the book. The UK paperback version is split into two books and the last chapter of the first book (Ch 41 of 81) is when Summer attacks the group in the village and Jon escapes.
True Blood is massive. The past two seasons (3 and 4) and both averaged 4.97 million viewers per episode.
Game of Thrones had good first season ratings, which improved as the season went along, very good merchandise sales from what I hear, and great DVD sales. It should be poised for a significant ratings jump for season 2. D&D will be able to make the show as long as they want to.
BertramCooper
Banned
I'm finally caught up. Just finished ADWD.
Honestly, I only see two outcomes at this point: Either the Seven Kingdoms fall into complete anarchy (which has arguably happened already), or Westeros begins to move toward something resembling democracy. Almost all of the major houses have fallen, and of those remaining, none is capable of controlling the entire continent, dragons or no dragons.
Or perhaps it will simply go back to resembling Westeros before Aegon's conquest, though I doubt it, since no one, save the northerners, seems to accept the idea of multiple kingdoms in Westeros.
Honestly, I only see two outcomes at this point: Either the Seven Kingdoms fall into complete anarchy (which has arguably happened already), or Westeros begins to move toward something resembling democracy. Almost all of the major houses have fallen, and of those remaining, none is capable of controlling the entire continent, dragons or no dragons.
Or perhaps it will simply go back to resembling Westeros before Aegon's conquest, though I doubt it, since no one, save the northerners, seems to accept the idea of multiple kingdoms in Westeros.
Basileus777
Member
Democracy is impossible with Westeros' social conditions. A rural, uneducated population doesn't lead to democracy, you'd just get a fragmented feudal realm. Other than the Faith (which was run by nobles before recent events), there isn't anything to oppose the feudal class.
Steelyuhas
Member
I don't know about some form of democracy, but I seriously doubt that Westeros will be one united kingdom at the end of the series. At the very least, I think there is no way that the North is not an independent kingdom.
planar1280
Banned
Should i get the book or the graphic novels i am not a big big book reader so i wanted to know how the graphic novel compare
I think there's a precedent for this.
Seasons 3 and 4 of The Wire have a lot of separate storylines going on. Sure, they're tied together by being in the same city, but a lot of the characters never interact with each other. You hardly see McNulty at all in Season 4, and he was basically the main character.
Books 4 and 5 of this series would be more spread out and convoluted than The Wire, but not a lot more so.
I've never seen the Wire, but I'll take your word on the comparison. I do think it can be done effectively as far as covering the content giving, and covering it well, I just worry that the seemingly lack of focus in those two books even compared to the previous 3 would cause viewers to start to lose interest.
I do hope they manage to keep up the show though, as I would love for them to be able to do the entire series.
Adapting AFFC and ADWD will not be a problem. A lot of the bullshit that made these books boring will be cut out. Also you won't have the problem that AFFC had where a lot of the major characters don't appear as POVs. This is because the events of these two books run concurrently for the most part. Thus it will be easier for viewers to lean into the Greyjoy and Dorne storylines of AFFC because they will be shown alongside Dany's and Jon's and Tyrion's storylines from ADWD. Not to mention it seems like they're already playing up the Greyjoys in the new season much more than they were in ACOK. This will make it easier for audiences to be invested in their story once we get to AFFC material. I assume they'll take a similar approach with a lot of the Dorne characters when they introduce the Red Viper in the next season.
I think the only problem the show will face is that it will catch up to the books. GRRM will probably get TWOW out before that material airs on the show, but the final novel will most likely not be close to finished by the time the show catches up. This will be further exacerbated by the fact that the series may very well end up going beyond seven books.
I think the only problem the show will face is that it will catch up to the books. GRRM will probably get TWOW out before that material airs on the show, but the final novel will most likely not be close to finished by the time the show catches up. This will be further exacerbated by the fact that the series may very well end up going beyond seven books.
I may have to go back and read through Storm of Swords but I like the idea of Season 3 ending with the Red Wedding, probably most of episode 10 could be dedicated to it. They are already developing Robb's story a lot in season 2 where he meets Jeyne. Sure some viewers may be mad but I think people understand what Game of Thrones is like. They will get over it during the summer. I don't think Robb is as loved as Ned anyways.
I'm someone who started out as a fan of the tv series and then read the books and honestly I don't care too much about tv adaptation beyond Storm of Swords. If we get all the way upto Winds of Winter and the tv show ends without a final season, I am just fine with it. That is way more than anyone expected.
I'm someone who started out as a fan of the tv series and then read the books and honestly I don't care too much about tv adaptation beyond Storm of Swords. If we get all the way upto Winds of Winter and the tv show ends without a final season, I am just fine with it. That is way more than anyone expected.
The stuff in the north in ADWD is good enough to hold together a season. Would make for amazing television. But hopefully by the time that comes on tv TWOW will be out and they can toss in some ends to those cliffhangers.
Im interested in seeing what the hell martin is going to do if he show outpaces his books. I don't want him to rush to the finish line but I also don't want the tv show to ruin the books.
Im interested in seeing what the hell martin is going to do if he show outpaces his books. I don't want him to rush to the finish line but I also don't want the tv show to ruin the books.
Basileus777
Member
I don't think the Red Wedding is going to be as much of a shock as we'd like when it finally happens.
There are so many trolls out there who seem intent on posting "Robb and Catelyn die!!!!" on every youtube video that's even tangentially related to the show. A few people I know have already had it spoiled for them. Those trolls should all be teleported into the sun.
There are so many trolls out there who seem intent on posting "Robb and Catelyn die!!!!" on every youtube video that's even tangentially related to the show. A few people I know have already had it spoiled for them. Those trolls should all be teleported into the sun.
- Status