So he is the Snoop Dogg of fantasy writers? Respect lost for being a Jets fan but now that I know he isn't a real Jets fan makes it an even bigger deal.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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So he is the Snoop Dogg of fantasy writers? Respect lost for being a Jets fan but now that I know he isn't a real Jets fan makes it an even bigger deal.
Maybe he's just a New York fan?
I'm a Bengals fan, but if they are having a shitty season and the Browns are looking good I'd root for the Browns. I'm definitely a Cincinnati fan first, but I like to see Ohio teams do well.
On a different note, I'd just like to say that I have the utmost respect for those of you who have been keeping up with the series since the first couple books. I only started reading them after the first couple episodes of the HBO show came out, and the wait for the new book is excruciating. I need a new Dunk & Egg or something to quench my thirst.
sooperkool
Member
Bloodraven would wax her ass
SerArthurDayne
Member
I started reading just as Storm of Swords came out. It has been nothing but waiting for me.
Supposedly next Dunk and Egg is in the work, and takes place at Winterfell. Could be cool. I would guess next year. They are only short stories, but I don't think he has even started yet, plus time to publish, plus probably makes more sense to bring to market when Season 3 starts.
Martin grew up in the NJ/NY area. I assume he is just a fan of football, and New York Football. I don't know if he has a true #1. Based on what I remember, I would say probably the Giants, but that could just be because there was more to talk about in the last few years.
Supposedly next Dunk and Egg is in the work, and takes place at Winterfell. Could be cool. I would guess next year. They are only short stories, but I don't think he has even started yet, plus time to publish, plus probably makes more sense to bring to market when Season 3 starts.
Martin grew up in the NJ/NY area. I assume he is just a fan of football, and New York Football. I don't know if he has a true #1. Based on what I remember, I would say probably the Giants, but that could just be because there was more to talk about in the last few years.
New theory I just developed when thinking about how the writers plan to break up Bran's storyline on the show for Clash and Storm.
Maester Luwin will be the "Man" that Jon and the Wilderings encounter in Ch41 in Storms. Hear me out...
- Bran's Season 2 story arc will conclude with Maester Luwin escaping alongside Bran and friends. Theon will skin the millers boys and his Season 2 arc will end there.
- Maester Luwin leads Bran, Hodor, and Osha either North to the Wall or someplace else to keep them safe. Possibly even Greywater Watch and Howland Reed. Either way, they meet the Reed siblings along the way or Greywater Watch if they go there on the show.
- Bran's Season 3 arc ends with Bran and his party arriving at the lake village during the storm at the same time that Jon and the Wildlings do. However, it's Maester Luwin that the Wildlings catch and try to force Jon to kill. This adds more dramatic tension to the scene and further enforces Jon's reason for refusing.
- Ygritte kills Luwin, Summer attacks, Jon flees, all hell breaks loose. Queue Bran and company finding Maester Luwin dying, and the last scene from Clash plays out like it does in the books, except it's in a different location. Osha takes Rickon and Bran and the Reeds continue North to the Wall.
- Season 4 then features Bran's chapter at the Nightfort and some of his Dance chapters.
Would that work, or am I overlooking a big plothole.
Maester Luwin will be the "Man" that Jon and the Wilderings encounter in Ch41 in Storms. Hear me out...
- Bran's Season 2 story arc will conclude with Maester Luwin escaping alongside Bran and friends. Theon will skin the millers boys and his Season 2 arc will end there.
- Maester Luwin leads Bran, Hodor, and Osha either North to the Wall or someplace else to keep them safe. Possibly even Greywater Watch and Howland Reed. Either way, they meet the Reed siblings along the way or Greywater Watch if they go there on the show.
- Bran's Season 3 arc ends with Bran and his party arriving at the lake village during the storm at the same time that Jon and the Wildlings do. However, it's Maester Luwin that the Wildlings catch and try to force Jon to kill. This adds more dramatic tension to the scene and further enforces Jon's reason for refusing.
- Ygritte kills Luwin, Summer attacks, Jon flees, all hell breaks loose. Queue Bran and company finding Maester Luwin dying, and the last scene from Clash plays out like it does in the books, except it's in a different location. Osha takes Rickon and Bran and the Reeds continue North to the Wall.
- Season 4 then features Bran's chapter at the Nightfort and some of his Dance chapters.
Would that work, or am I overlooking a big plothole.
That could work, as long as they move Greywater Watch up north, which would deemphasize the defense of Moat Cailin, as the moat is not only hard to breach, but also surrounded by Crannogmen IIRC. Or they can move the Reed kids north somehow; Jojen had a greendream telling him to find Bran or something.
shadowsdarknes
Member
I have a new theory on Varys:
After browsing tWoW section in Westeros.org, I came across a post mentioning a detail that I had forgotten. When the Mad King was still ruling over the realm, Varys claimed he heard a voice. He details this to Tyrion when he is asked about his castration.
He never tells Tyrion what the voice said. The "voice" is obviously a passage in a book he in turn recommended to Rhaegar Targaryen. Around this time, Rhaegar, I believe learns of his destiny, or of the PtwP.
I think it is obvious Varys had a roll in influencing Rhaegar to believe in such a prophecy. Perhaps Varys sensed a bad omen many years before the threat began looming in the Haunted Forest.
He claims he is merely a servant of the realm. It may have been this voice that caused his decision to put forth a plan to save the seven kingdoms.
Varys may after all be anticipating an invasion from evil forces beyond the Wall.
After browsing tWoW section in Westeros.org, I came across a post mentioning a detail that I had forgotten. When the Mad King was still ruling over the realm, Varys claimed he heard a voice. He details this to Tyrion when he is asked about his castration.
He never tells Tyrion what the voice said. The "voice" is obviously a passage in a book he in turn recommended to Rhaegar Targaryen. Around this time, Rhaegar, I believe learns of his destiny, or of the PtwP.
I think it is obvious Varys had a roll in influencing Rhaegar to believe in such a prophecy. Perhaps Varys sensed a bad omen many years before the threat began looming in the Haunted Forest.
He claims he is merely a servant of the realm. It may have been this voice that caused his decision to put forth a plan to save the seven kingdoms.
Varys may after all be anticipating an invasion from evil forces beyond the Wall.
Cool theory! But I see some flaws.
Why would Luwin go with Bran and Rickon and abandon everyone else? There are more people living in Winterfell, like Old Nan and Beth Cassel. Besides, Luwin is a bit old and would probaly slow them down. We also wouldn't have anyone trying to talk sense into Theon.
But I like the idea of Luwin travelling with Bran & Co.
Jojen en Meera could turn up at any number of locations, guided by a dream. Shoehorning Luwin into the anonymous old man is also a good idea, although they'll probably skip that scene entirely :/shadowsdarknes said:
It has always bothered me that Varys, who has spies everywhere, seems to ignore the crisis at the wall. Perhaps he's just really preoccupied by his own plans for Aegon, but he hates the supernatural so it seems really out of character to do nothing about it.
Steelyuhas
Member
The only thing I can think of is aren't abandoning Winterfell be a pretty massive violation of the Maester's code/rules for Luwin?
Other than that (and I'm not really sure if that's that big of deal) I love that idea. Gets more Luwin, how is fantastic in the show, and makes Jon's refusing to kill the old man a powerful decision for him (as he's known him since he was little), and keeps Osha with Bran longer, and still makes for a natural separation where her and Rickon leave.
Wow, I actually really really like that idea.
Basileus777
Member
The show hasn't hinted at any such code, so I'm not sure it matters.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah I was thinking that's why it wouldn't really be that big of a deal in the show.
I really like that idea, I'm hoping for it now.
SerArthurDayne
Member
It is a pretty cool idea. It's just one of those things that I'm not sure would occur to the show runners. We shall see.
I don't like taking the Reeds away from the bog, but I think Moat Cailin will definitely be downplayed in the show, so its strategic significance is lost, and therefore Greywater Watch's location doesn't mean that much to the show's geography.
Hell, they could just create a bog North of Winterfell if they really wanted to keep that aspect. A trade I'll make to get the Reeds.
I don't like taking the Reeds away from the bog, but I think Moat Cailin will definitely be downplayed in the show, so its strategic significance is lost, and therefore Greywater Watch's location doesn't mean that much to the show's geography.
Hell, they could just create a bog North of Winterfell if they really wanted to keep that aspect. A trade I'll make to get the Reeds.
Supermanisdead
Member
Then we won't be able to see Theon regretfully kill Luwin as Yara pressures him on
It would be cheaper to film as much on the Winterfell sets as possible. I think Osha and Bran will meet Meera and Jojen when they are hiding in the crypts. Bran will ask Jojen and Meera who they are and and how the pair knew that Bran would be hiding in the crypts and that is how we get the explanation of green dreams and their introduction. Winterfell will burn in episode 4 or 5 of season 3 but we will continue to see Theon and Ramsay at the Dreadfort. The rest of season 3 and 4 will cover Theon's torture and conversion to Reek. We simply can't leave the characters out of the show. Meera, Jojen, Bran, Rickon, Hodor, and Osha will head to the Wall and the rest of season 3 will show them on the road. Osha will leave them at Queenscrown to go off with Rickon to Skagos. Bran's story on the road is a good place for filler and exposition. Actually it may be cheaper to skip all the road travels altogether and have them hang around a burned Winterfell until they leave and boom they are at Queenscrown tower in time for Jon to arrive.
Basileus777
Member
You raise some other good points, but I doubt they'd cast kids as the Reeds. You can cast actors in their 20s in those roles with no real issues.
ok so here we go. Sansa is going to screw over littlefinger with some epic plan. Jon is going to be rezzed by Melisandre and be like Beric dondarrion. Bran becomes the first green seer who can talk through the trees. Tyrion just better not die soon. I feel like jaime and cersei will die together or jaime will kill her. I give up on Dany. Fuck too many characters. I'm excited to read what Arya will become.
They could just put him in a situation where he has no choice but to flee. Like, something happens suddenly where they dont have time to think and just need to gtfo.
Though, as somebody else brought up. I would miss the interactions between Luwin and Theon while Theon is holding Winterfell with the looming threat of Rodrick. Luwin trying to convince Theon to take surrender and take the black and all that.
Is there somebody else they could move his lines to?
They even mentioned the children of the forest in episode 3 which tells me they are planning to show Bran's arc in ADWD. It is much simpler to cast them instead of having to alter the plot so much, I think they have an important role to play in the story. They can be 20 year olds who play teenagers, don't have to be kids.
I don't remember the exact quote but a recent interview with D&D they implied that the Reeds will be in season 3. This is extreme paraphrasing but it went something like 'just because we haven't cast someone doesnt mean they won't be in the show. We already have the biggest cast on television so it doesn't make sense to cast people that don't have a prominent role in the story yet,' which is sort of fair enough, as long as they find a decent way to introduce them next season. There was another quote recently that I do remember, "if we cast every character from the books we'd spend our entire budget on actors salaries" which gave me a lot of perspective on just how challenging of an adaptation it must be.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I could see the children being cut, depending on their importance later. They have done nothing yet, and would be expensive to cast/costume.
And I am assuming that Howland Reed will matter at some point in the books, but he basically doesn't exist at all in the show. But if the Tower of Joy becomes important at all later they kind of need him in it, since we didn't get any flashbacks from Ned in jail.
Reeds don't have to be that young. You could easily do Meera as 18 or so, or maybe even older and have Jojen be 18ish. Sure he is supposed to be a kid, but as a plot device it doesn't really matter. Not that they have been afraid to cast kids, generally.
I just am afraid it will be awkward if they completely come out of nowhere.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I just finished DwD last night and I have a few questions/observations:
At the end Daenerys has the pale mare right? When she's shitting herself in the Dothraki Sea? I mean, I guess it could be due to dehydration/starvation or eating the berries, but it seemed to me like everything was pointing towards the pale mare. I ask because I was looking through her wikia page and I didn't see it mentioned, so I thought I might be mistaken.
Damn. I was so shocked that Jon was being stabbed, I didn't even process that his wounds/hand was smoking. Hmm...
Am I the only one who not only really liked every book, but also liked reading every POV character? I even like Daenerys. >_>
These books are so dense (or maybe it's just me) that I missed a lot of details and clues. Renly and Loras being lovers completely flew over my head. Jon maybe being Azor Ahai, or Rhaegar's son? Never guessed. Aegon maybe being the bastard of Ned? Wat. Arya planting poison on the coin, so when the guy bit it, he died. I thought that she planted a coin that had markings of the faceless men, so when he saw it, he knew he was being targeted and died of shock. Manderly serving Frey pies. Damp hair. (O_O) Etc. Etc. Damn.
Anyway, awesome book!
At the end Daenerys has the pale mare right? When she's shitting herself in the Dothraki Sea? I mean, I guess it could be due to dehydration/starvation or eating the berries, but it seemed to me like everything was pointing towards the pale mare. I ask because I was looking through her wikia page and I didn't see it mentioned, so I thought I might be mistaken.
Damn. I was so shocked that Jon was being stabbed, I didn't even process that his wounds/hand was smoking. Hmm...
Am I the only one who not only really liked every book, but also liked reading every POV character? I even like Daenerys. >_>
These books are so dense (or maybe it's just me) that I missed a lot of details and clues. Renly and Loras being lovers completely flew over my head. Jon maybe being Azor Ahai, or Rhaegar's son? Never guessed. Aegon maybe being the bastard of Ned? Wat. Arya planting poison on the coin, so when the guy bit it, he died. I thought that she planted a coin that had markings of the faceless men, so when he saw it, he knew he was being targeted and died of shock. Manderly serving Frey pies. Damp hair. (O_O) Etc. Etc. Damn.
Anyway, awesome book!
PhoenixDark
Banned
There's a lot of debate over what happened to Dany. Some argue she was having a miscarriage
Some "little things" missed in ADWD:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53780-adwd-spoilers-all-of-the-little-things/
PhoenixDark
Banned
Jeyne Westerling! *giggles*
arglebargle
Member
i felt borderline illiterate when i read the books then came into this thread and realized how many subtle clues i had missed.
do people really think aegon is neds bastard? what does that come from?
i thought the arya poisoning episode was fairly clear, but i missed a lot of the rest of what you mention.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Yeah, I was reading that link earlier actually. Thanks though!
When it mentioned the bleeding, it crossed my mind that she might have had some sort of miscarriage or something, but then I remembered the prophecy and shrugged it off. (then I read the GAF thread about how the prophecy might be coming true with the sun rising in the West, etc. holy fuuuuuuuu) I just figured the blood was mixed in with her shit, which is a symptom of the flux.
I know that feel bro.
Yeah, I don't know about that one. I just saw some people mention it in the DwD thread.
Man, if you really want to read a more shallow and archtypical fantasy so badly, why don't you? There are plenty of them out there. Most people here love Martin's books because they have so much depth to them and are atypical of the average fantasy.
I don't mean this as an insult exactly, but you are the worst ASoIaF fan I've ever seen. Every post I see from you has you bitching about some good part of the book for reasons I don't really see (aside from the cannogman actors complaint, I agree with that). I'm really not trying to be insulting or anything, I don't think your dumb or anything. You just seem to have vastly different values in this series from me. But if anyone listened to your suggestions, the series would be completely ruined as far as I'm concerned.
I don't mean this as an insult exactly, but you are the worst ASoIaF fan I've ever seen. Every post I see from you has you bitching about some good part of the book for reasons I don't really see (aside from the cannogman actors complaint, I agree with that). I'm really not trying to be insulting or anything, I don't think your dumb or anything. You just seem to have vastly different values in this series from me. But if anyone listened to your suggestions, the series would be completely ruined as far as I'm concerned.
Read the Night Angel Trilogy or something like that, faster pace, lots of deaths, not a lot of writing. I read that as well as ASOIAF and it's a nice change of pace.
And speeding thorugh a couple of books in a few months (well, that's not that fast), glossing over important things like the incredible density of the books, then complaining how boring it all is and calling it geeky. Classy.
There're several tc show threads where you can discuss the story without boring details like cuisine, prophecies, lots of characterisation and other geeky stuff like that.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I got like 80% of that. Yay me! But I've also read all the others multiple times, and get into the history and backstory a bit.
Where is the Lemore as Ashara Dayne speculation coming from? She gets almost no description, but violet eyes would probably be noteworthy, especially after Aegon. And based on Barristan, wouldn't she be too old? He talks about her as a young maiden at Harrenhall, so I'm assuming 16-20ish tops. Westeros says Lemore is mid 40's, Ashara would be mid 30s at worst.
If you know who Bloodraven actually is I don't know how you would have missed him being the greenseer. I thought the Blackwood/Bracken hill conflict was much more subtle, but a nice touch.
Where is the Lemore as Ashara Dayne speculation coming from? She gets almost no description, but violet eyes would probably be noteworthy, especially after Aegon. And based on Barristan, wouldn't she be too old? He talks about her as a young maiden at Harrenhall, so I'm assuming 16-20ish tops. Westeros says Lemore is mid 40's, Ashara would be mid 30s at worst.
If you know who Bloodraven actually is I don't know how you would have missed him being the greenseer. I thought the Blackwood/Bracken hill conflict was much more subtle, but a nice touch.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Nice pickups on the potential identities of Lemore and Lanna. No other real (speculative) revelations for me, sadly.
I am hoping she is one of the Wolf Women of Winterfell, whom we will hear more about in the next Dunk & Egg book. It would be just like George to drop this tease into ADWD ahead of his next D&E story.
bengraven
Member
1) yeah, after missing so many clues in the previous books, I went into Dragons trying to analyze EVERYTHING. I'm about to read that list, but I have a feeling I missed a lot.
2) I actually have had the theory since before Dance that Ned did in fact have a bastard. I've talked about it here on the forums.
I think there was some kind of switcheroo, though which way it went I don't know.
Ned's bastard could be Aegon, or that Dayne kid Arya met or maybe even Jon but that would mean that Lyanna's kid is Aegon maybe.
I'm not sure, but when Jon was forced to switch children to prevent Mel from killing a prince, I don't think I'm alone in thinking that's a heavy, heavy, HEAVY foreshadowing of what his "Father" was forced to do at the Tower of Joy.
Yeah, that seemed like a huge new revelation and addition to the story and I have a feeling it won't be touched much in the actual series, but will be a part of the next D&E, like you said.
bengraven
Member
First I saw this. These made me go WTF:
- Bran, the Reeds and Hodor ate people!? They were eating the Night's Watchmen?!
- "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," Quentyn Martell's death, he is the sun.
"When the seas go dry" The Dothraki Sea has gone dry.
"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." The dragons' destruction of the pyramids seems the most likely here. They are burned by the dragons and the ashes blow in the wind. (slow clap)
- It is possible that Drogo (and Rhaego?) are living on in some form in their dragons as we know that that sort of thing it possible from Varamyr and that fits with the prophesy of Drogo being returned to Dany (maybe). (a stretch, but if true...!?!?!?)
-"Mance" says "I'm not the king" while being burned. Bit tip-off there. Especially when combined with: "Inside his cage, Mance Rayder clawed at the noose about his neck with bound hands and screamed incoherently of treachery and witchery, denying his kingship, denying his people, denying his name, denying all that he had ever been."
-The bit from Bran's vision: "Then there came a brown-​haired girl slen*der as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor." refers to Duncan the Tall it would seem. Is Hodor his descendant? Are we going to get to see Nan in the next Hedge Knight book? [I never really thought of Hodor as Dunk's grandson, but I'm pretty sure Brienne is related to him: from her shield to how tall she is]
-The bit in Jon's mind about killing the boy so the man can be born might end up coming true rather literally if the various Jon resurrection theories are true.
-Bonifer the Good, who leads the Holy Hundred and is very religious and who is given guardianship of Harrenhall in AFfC seems to be Queen Rhaella's lost love who she was forced to abandon when marrying Aerys. (Oh shit, I don't even know how he got this)
But this...this is the strangest thing. If true, that means that since Jaime is Kingsguard, Cersei is queen (and probably will die) and Tyrion is a criminal, then this girl is the heir to Casterly Rock.
-The appendix confirms that Lanna is the Sailor's Wife's daughter. Apparently whores go to Braavos and Tyrion has a trueborn daughter.
I forget, was it confirmed that the Sailor's Wife is actually Tysha? I remember there being a lot of speculation on that fact after AFFC came out, but no actual confirmation, and I don't think ADWD added any more clues.
bengraven
Member
I'm a bit confused: the thread is long, so I haven't seen any of the proof for it. I'm trying to find it now because this is the thing I want to know about the most.
There were rumors that Tysha was the SW in Feast, but I don't know where in Dance it would have proved (?) it.
Edit:
From the Tower of the Hand ---
These books are like a game, when you think of it. Reading Ice and Fire is like reading a Where's Waldo book. Sure, you want to find Waldo right away and end the book, but there's literally thousands of little easter eggs to find if you examine every page carefully.
George deserves his title if even half these "easter eggs" fans found are proven true.
Duane Cunningham
Member
(Quoted from the show thread so I could remove the spoilers)
I've thought for a long time that the geography is based loosely on the real world:
Westeros = North America
Winterfell = Canada
Dorne = Mexico
Lannisterville = California (where the gold is)
Kings Landing = Washington DC or NY
Storms End = Florida (the place where hurricanes constantly happen)
The Reach = The lower midwestern "bread basket" states
Riverlands = the upper midwest, with all the rivers and Great Lakes
Dragonstone = England
Essos = Europe/Asia
Valyria = Ancient Rome
etc etc
And the Summer Isles are south of Essos, so yeah, Africa.
Yep. I even made a custom map like this for a game once to see how well it would work.
bengraven
Member
I'm glad that there are least two other people who agree with me that this is likely North America pre-history. I think Martin basically says it's a Robert E. Howard/JRRT like "pre-Earth". Explains the flora and fauna, including the gators in the neck which didn't make sense to me at first.
I never realized how well it matched up though.
And omg, Dorne are Aztecs!
I never realized how well it matched up though.
And omg, Dorne are Aztecs!
smokeandmirrors
Banned
The only thing I don't like is Beyond The Wall is west and not north as is described by the books. But something like that had been loosely floating in my mind whilst reading
Fuck Yes! I live beyond the wall!
West or North, doesn't really matter. Still farther away from the other places by land and kinda hard / impossible to sail around.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Westeros is based loosely on Western Europe (England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Spain), not the Americas. The history of Westeros matches the history of England pretty closely too. England even had seven kingdoms until a hundred years prior to the Norman invasion of 1066.
Aegon the Conquerer - William the Conquerer
The Wall - Hadrian's Wall
The Iron Islands - Ireland (Dublin was originally a Viking colony, which is why the ironborn use longships and like to rape and pillage)
Dorne - Spain
The North - Scotland and parts of Scandinavia
Highgarden - France
The Westerlands - Wales (the name Cleggayne sounds awfully Welsh, doesn't it?)
Valyria - Ancient Greece / Rome
The thing is, it's all remixed historically and geographically anyway so it doesn't matter. Direwolves were a prehistoric American wolf, for instance, and the Dothraki are at once based on the Mongols and the Great Plains Native American people. The idea is that all these peoples are meant to feel vaguely familiar so your own mind can fill in the blanks which leaves GRRM free to focus on telling the story.
Aegon the Conquerer - William the Conquerer
The Wall - Hadrian's Wall
The Iron Islands - Ireland (Dublin was originally a Viking colony, which is why the ironborn use longships and like to rape and pillage)
Dorne - Spain
The North - Scotland and parts of Scandinavia
Highgarden - France
The Westerlands - Wales (the name Cleggayne sounds awfully Welsh, doesn't it?)
Valyria - Ancient Greece / Rome
The thing is, it's all remixed historically and geographically anyway so it doesn't matter. Direwolves were a prehistoric American wolf, for instance, and the Dothraki are at once based on the Mongols and the Great Plains Native American people. The idea is that all these peoples are meant to feel vaguely familiar so your own mind can fill in the blanks which leaves GRRM free to focus on telling the story.
And Joffrey is still king. Peeps are gonna be maaad.
I have a question about a particular speculation that's been flying around for some time now (it's about Jon Snow):
Where the hell did people get the idea that Jon is a Targaryen? How does it even remotly make any sense? Even a half-targaryen seems unlikely as hell... So what's the general consensus regarding this speculation, and again where the hell did it come from? To me it seems just insanely ridiculous, but I've only read all the books...
http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html
This does a pretty good job of showing why the Lyanna and Rhaegar theory makes a lot of sense. (Make sure you set the "scope" thing at the top to DwD).
This does a pretty good job of showing why the Lyanna and Rhaegar theory makes a lot of sense. (Make sure you set the "scope" thing at the top to DwD).
SerArthurDayne
Member
Consensus is about 95% certain that he is the son of Lyanna Stark (who died in childbirth) and Rhaegar Targaryen, who was already dead on the Trident when he was born. Lots of clues, and the only counterpoint has been a passage in Dance. And the fact that he is raised as a Snow, obviously.
edit: I forgot about Edric in storm mentioning Wylla. Ashara seems to have the least support, to my mind, other than that Eddard actually liked her.
And above post is fantastic in explaining why.
And if we ever see Howland Reed, we might get some more information on the situation!
edit: I forgot about Edric in storm mentioning Wylla. Ashara seems to have the least support, to my mind, other than that Eddard actually liked her.
And above post is fantastic in explaining why.
And if we ever see Howland Reed, we might get some more information on the situation!
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