PhoenixDark
Banned
I thought she was clearly tricking him in order for him to follow her.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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I thought she was clearly tricking him in order for him to follow her.
Not a chance, I think. She may have that realization at some point however - possibly after finding out that Rickon and Bran are still alive*.
Either way, by series end, shes dead (again).
*More likely, some one kills her to force her into rest.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Well, keep in mind that Martin originally planned the series as a trilogy with the first book covering roughly what the first three did. It was while he was writing A Game of Thrones that he realized eventually that he had written too much to fit in one book and wasn't even halfway done with the plot he had planned for it. So, while writing both Clash and Storm he had a large amount of leftover material, and he was still essentially writing the plot he had planned out for a single book. He obviously would have had the first book planned out the most clearly when he started; that just wound up turning into the first three books. I think this is the biggest reason that he was able to turn around Clash and Storm so quickly, and why the later books have taken much longer. He's gotten into the point in the story where his initial plans were likely much less specific.
Coupled with that, the aborted five year gap screwed up a lot of things, and the story in general has gotten more complicated. Each book winds up more complex than the last, and it's tough to keep piling things on. A Clash of Kings had 9 POVs centered around about five main locations, while Dance has sixteen POVs spread all across the globe. It's no great surprise that the latter was a more complicated book to write.
Steelyuhas
Member
Steelyuhas
Member
Joffrey's wedding is after the Red wedding. Sansa was still in King's Landing during Joffrey's wedding (married to Tyrion), and in the chaos of Joffrey's death she escapes.
Obviously since we're aware of Sansa's current situation, but I just found it odd that she would single out the Hound as threatening Sansa, rather than just saying bandits had taken her or something along those lines. I mean if she really wanted him to come, couldn't she have said she found Tyrion? That would seem like something much more likely to convince Jaime to come with her than anything.
I just have a feeling that the Hound still has a part to play, and this is a great place for him to re-enter the story.
bengraven
Member
Okay, I suddenly realized that if Joffrey doesn't die until Season 4 likely, then that means Jaime will be traveling with Brienne until at least midway through Season 4. Since he arrives during Joff's wake.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I still think they end next season with Joffrey's death, the episode after the Red Wedding. Or 2 episodes after. I know it doesn't make 100% sense logistically but they'll figure it out.
I think they have to squeeze that into season 3. If they don't, the season will be super dark, and turn a whole bunch of people off.
Also a climactic event like that would make no sense to happen in the first couple of episodes of a season.
Plus not much really happens in between those events(certainly nothing major that needs to be in between in order to fit the timeline). Plus season 4 will have plenty of it's own climactic events. The viper/mountain duel, tyrion's escape, the climax of the arya/hound storyline.
Im worried they might push it to season 4 though, I hope they don't.
As you guys know by now Shireen has been cast and they got quite an accomplished young actress, Kerry Ingram to play her. What role do you guys think Shireen will play? It seems like they need to cast Patchface as well.
I hope I don't need to tell you which one will be playing Shireen.
I hope I don't need to tell you which one will be playing Shireen.
Photoshops plz
They could have a Blackwater type episode for episode 10, simply focusing on the events in King's Landing and Joffrey's wedding to end the season, and have everything that happens to the other characters in between during the start of season 4.
They don't have to follow the story in the order it was presented in the books as this season has shown.
nah he is probably going to tell her to come along and she is going to say no. I don't know what the will do with the face change
I definitely have Dance as my number two, but i should reread the series again. I read the Dark Tower series as they came out, and they had a drop in quality after the fourth book, and there was also a long wait in between books. I was terrified that Dance would be awful, and was elated that it wasn't. Perhaps with a reread that will change.
28 Posts Later
Member
All this says is that Shireen will be a somewhat important character in future novels. Her role so far is so minute and her characterization so lacking she's exactly the kind of character I'd have expected the show to cut.
And since we're making lists:
ASoS > ACoK > AGoT > AFfC > ADwD
Upon reflection I thought Dance ended up pretty terrible; it's the only novel in the series I've had to force myself to finish. AFFC was pretty weak too, but I put that down to being the novel after ASOS and the fact it has a slower pace given the events that occur. Unlike ADwD however, I rarely felt [with the exception of the Brienne chapters] that AFFC was deliberately wasting my time.
Rereading a Feast for Crows, 21% in. Something that now strikes me as odd/sorta annoys me, is Sansa's ambivalent, confused stance towards Littlefinger. If she had put a little more thought in it, she'd make sure to somehow force some meeting with Royce after her aunt's death, try and convince him of her true identity. Royce and the other houses seemed totally ready to go ballsdeep for the Starks (close to revolt against Lysa before Littlefinger even arrived, if I remember correctly), unhappy with both Lysa and even more pissed of when Littlefinger comes out of leftfield. And I might be mistaken but I'm under the assumption Sansa knew this at this point. No use dwelling on what could've happened, but I still hope she backstabs Petyr at some point in the future (maybe Martin wants more timing setting up a 'pupil outdoes the master' scenario or something) so the Vale can finally start kick ass and take names.
Steelyuhas
Member
Thought this was funny:
Thought this was funny:
Someone posted this in the NO SPOILERS thread, and I cringed inside. I swear, too many of the non-readers are going to see the RW coming a mile away at this rate.
I honestly doubt it.
That's what makes the Red Wedding so damn shocking--in one fell swoop, GRRM snuffs out several of the "good guys," the primary rooting interest in the war, and the main members left of the Stark family. It's unspeakably brutal and unfair.
I didn't see it coming at all on the first read-through, and I got a genuine sense of dread on the second read-through when I picked up on the hints GRRM was dropping. It's STILL shocking even if you know what's gonna happen, much like Ned's death.
RW was intense, and utterly shocking. I swear I had to put down the book for a couple of days just to recover (ok I lied I didn't, just too good). But the fact that no such events like the RW and beheading of Ned Stark happens again is kind of... I don't know... sad? I know that I would rage hard to see a major character go again, but the sudden deaths of people I love is what makes the books so amazing to me.
I guess Jon's "death" is pretty surprising, but I knew from the prologue that he will not die "really" so the shock is not there.
As quoted, Quentyn was a pretty lame character
I guess Jon's "death" is pretty surprising, but I knew from the prologue that he will not die "really" so the shock is not there.
As quoted, Quentyn was a pretty lame character
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM still had a major shock or two in him. I'm pretty sure he's always had a basic idea of the broad story strokes. While the whole 5 year gap/AFFC&ADWD thing got out of control, for the last couple books I would imagine he at least knows what he wants to happen from here out.
LegendofJoe
Member
I'm pretty sure something terrible is going to happen to either Arya or Dany before the end of the series, both of them won't survive. It's going to be brutal reading it.
So, how does Gaf feel about the "Jon as royalty theory"?
I've seen this being discussed a lot lately, the basic gist is this:
Jon Snow is not a bastard, nor Ned's son. Jon Snow is in fact the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, who was conceived during the time Lyanna was kidnapped. Ned has been raising Jon as his own son, keeping him protected. This might explain Lyanna's last words to Ned, "Promise me".
I can certainly see it being a possibility, but I'm not sure.
Edit: Sorry if this has already been discussed, first time I've heard of it.
I've seen this being discussed a lot lately, the basic gist is this:
Jon Snow is not a bastard, nor Ned's son. Jon Snow is in fact the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, who was conceived during the time Lyanna was kidnapped. Ned has been raising Jon as his own son, keeping him protected. This might explain Lyanna's last words to Ned, "Promise me".
I can certainly see it being a possibility, but I'm not sure.
Edit: Sorry if this has already been discussed, first time I've heard of it.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Well, no shit.
I must have either totally forgotten that or missed that completely when reading AFfC.
Oh I pray so much that something terrible happen to Dany. If GRRM actually killed her off though I would be very surprised. She seemingly has the thickest plot armor of any character in the series. Maybe she'll die at the every end in some kind of bittersweet ending, but a Dornish Red Wedding scenario for Dany would be fantastic.
The last time she tried getting the help of another great house she ended up married to Tyrion. Not surprising that she would not want to put herself out there again.
Honestly after the way Dany acted in the last two books specifically how she treated Quentyn and the idea of a Dornish alliance in general I'm rooting for a death as bad/worse than Red Wedding.
Jorah or someone from Dorne killing her would be great.
The only thing about her dying that would bum me out would be the fact that Tyrion would most likely die/get super fucked in this situation unless he caught back up with Aegon.
What would/could Royce do? Kill LF and then plot to marry her to Robert as well? It's not as if the North isn't in fucking shambles in terms of # of dead soldiers.
My bigger problem was her being such a dick to Tyrion. He was the only person in all of King's landing who ever seemed to care what happened to her (Tyrells a teeny tiny bit but only in the context of keeping her claim to the north away from the Lannisters). If it wasn't for Tyrion Joffrey probably would have commanded some lannister men to rape her and then beat her within an inch of her life.
Random prediction: Her moment of realization and coming to peace will be with Stannis, once she sees that he's taken revenge on the Boltons and Freys and has rescued Rickon and put him in his place as Lord of Winterfell. Further random prediction: Stannis stumbles into the Brotherhood while marching south and Brienne takes the moment to kill him. Catelyn, having snapped out of her revenge-lust due to Stannis, sacrifices herself to revive him.
There's no way Joffrey's wedding can be in Season 3. That would make the King's Landing plot in Season 4 be nothing but Tyrion's trial. If they want Joffrey and Robb to die in the same season, I think it's got to be by delaying the RW into the beginning of Season 4, not by rushing Joffrey's into season 3.
Basileus777
Member
Zombie Cat getting "redemption," would be a pretty awful development.
Steelyuhas
Member
Basileus777
Member
No, Davos is captured by Pirates on the way to Skagos and we get 6 chapters about his trials as a captive. We never see Rickon.
I'm guessing you are from an English speaking country, right? Either way, believe me, it's not as easy as you think.
I've read the series in English and whenever someone checked "what book I've been reading" they were overwhelmed within few sentences. Even these "few old words" are a gamechanger. Especially as it increases as the series goes on.
Then again, if M.D can understand GAF just fine he shall have no problems (besides the mentioned phrases, like "fortnight", which on itself threw me off for quite a while).
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
This is likely. Davos will find Rickon in book 7 and Rickon will return to Westeros in book 9.
GRRM can do whatever he wants though as long as Dany dies.
I really hope the tv series makes it until ADWD. I have to see the scene with Davos and Manderly and then the hill tribesman speech about dying for neds girl.
On another note does Sansa not know about Arya's marriage to bolton yet? I'm sure littlefinger will keep it away from her attention but word of that spread even before joffreys death and her escape. I predict she will eventually find out but i'm surprised she hasn't already.
On another note does Sansa not know about Arya's marriage to bolton yet? I'm sure littlefinger will keep it away from her attention but word of that spread even before joffreys death and her escape. I predict she will eventually find out but i'm surprised she hasn't already.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I can see why Sansa wouldn't approach the Royces. She doesn't know them well, and by now she certainly realizes while LF is a creep...he has a plan. And his plan ultimately benefits her.
I'm still baffled at what LF's plan is now though. He said that after Sansa is revealed as a Stark it won't be hard to amass an army to re-take Winterfell for her. But Stannis is currently on the verge of re-taking Winterfell, the Northern lords support him, and there is already a plan to proclaim Rickon as the Stark heir. I don't see where Sansa fits in with that.
Plus with Aegon wrecking shit, perhaps LF might want to pledge Sansa to him
I'm still baffled at what LF's plan is now though. He said that after Sansa is revealed as a Stark it won't be hard to amass an army to re-take Winterfell for her. But Stannis is currently on the verge of re-taking Winterfell, the Northern lords support him, and there is already a plan to proclaim Rickon as the Stark heir. I don't see where Sansa fits in with that.
Plus with Aegon wrecking shit, perhaps LF might want to pledge Sansa to him
That would be the smartest thing he could do but at this point he is being creepy and thinking with his dick. His obsession for Sansa is going to be his downfall. Plus she is still married to tyrion, and if rickon is found she loses her marriage value.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Interesting Stannis theory/discussion
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...m-fire-to-ice-the-story-of-stannis-baratheon/
A rather different theory than what we tend to discuss in relation to Stannis being the last Night's Watch commander, and ultimately giving his life to (try to) stop the Others. Stannis has done some pretty shady things to secure his crown, including fratricide. But would he sell his soul to the Others, and ultimately damn the entire realm just to be king? It's possible, but I tend to think it's more likely that he'd fight against The Others.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...m-fire-to-ice-the-story-of-stannis-baratheon/
A rather different theory than what we tend to discuss in relation to Stannis being the last Night's Watch commander, and ultimately giving his life to (try to) stop the Others. Stannis has done some pretty shady things to secure his crown, including fratricide. But would he sell his soul to the Others, and ultimately damn the entire realm just to be king? It's possible, but I tend to think it's more likely that he'd fight against The Others.
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