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[Aiii]

I never liked Stannis in the books. He's so boring and humorless. In the show he's great, though. But it's the opposite with Dany: I can't stand her in the show, but she's one of my favorite characters in the books (until her storyline screeched to a halt in AFFC, that is).

Nah, I like book Stannis better, though he's portrayed well in the series.

Dany is very much agreed, as pretty as Emilia Clarke is, she makes a terrible Dany, can't quite put my finger on what it is, she just comes off as extremely unlikable compared to book Dany. Maybe it's the writing.

 

[shintoki]

Nah, I like book Stannis better, though he's portrayed well in the series.

Dany is very much agreed, as pretty as Emilia Clarke is, she makes a terrible Dany, can't quite put my finger on what it is, she just comes off as extremely unlikable compared to book Dany. Maybe it's the writing.

Dany is a shitty character. There is no real difference.

 

[Reyne]

I also think book Stannis is good, and not at all boring or humorless. Certainly, he has a gloomy personality and is easy to anger. But his snappy remarks are almost always clever and shows that Stannis understand the irony of things better than most.

Some quotes:

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."

"Without a son of Winterfell to stand beside me, I can only hope to win the north by battle. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one."

"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them cold clear water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes."

Davos: "I do not know this Lord of Light, but I knew the gods we burned this morning. The Smith has kept my ships safe, while the Mother has given me seven strong sons.
Stannis: Your wife has given you seven strong sons. Do you pray to her? It was wood we burned this morning."

Davos: "Give me knights as heralds...-"
Stannis: "I could give you those men, yes, I have at least a hundred knights who prefer reading to fighting."

Renly: "You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid."
Stannis: "In your bed she's like to die that way."

"Weddings have become more perilous than battles, it would seem."

"Everyone else has seen the thing, why not a blind man?"

"You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife?"

Janos: "Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?"
Stannis: "Any of you, I would think. Even the cook."

Asha: "Your Grace's royal brother was renowned for turning fallen foes into friend. Make me your man."
Stannis: "The gods did not make you a man. How can I?"

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

"You chatter like magpies, and with less sense"

So many good gems to choose from.

 

[daripad]

You can't forget the moment he nodded to Jon when Janos slynt's beheading

 

[cubicle47b]

I also think book Stannis is good, and not at all boring or humorless. Certainly, he has a gloomy personality and is easy to anger. But his snappy remarks are almost always clever and shows that Stannis understand the irony of things better than most.

Davos chapters are usually pretty dull but Stannis is great.

 

[Dysun]

lol

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I also think book Stannis is good, and not at all boring or humorless. Certainly, he has a gloomy personality and is easy to anger. But his snappy remarks are almost always clever and shows that Stannis understand the irony of things better than most.

Some quotes:

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."

"Without a son of Winterfell to stand beside me, I can only hope to win the north by battle. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one."

"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them cold clear water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes."

Davos: "I do not know this Lord of Light, but I knew the gods we burned this morning. The Smith has kept my ships safe, while the Mother has given me seven strong sons.
Stannis: Your wife has given you seven strong sons. Do you pray to her? It was wood we burned this morning."

Davos: "Give me knights as heralds...-"
Stannis: "I could give you those men, yes, I have at least a hundred knights who prefer reading to fighting."

Renly: "You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid."
Stannis: "In your bed she's like to die that way."

"Weddings have become more perilous than battles, it would seem."

"Everyone else has seen the thing, why not a blind man?"

"You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife?"

Janos: "Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?"
Stannis: "Any of you, I would think. Even the cook."

Asha: "Your Grace's royal brother was renowned for turning fallen foes into friend. Make me your man."
Stannis: "The gods did not make you a man. How can I?"

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

"You chatter like magpies, and with less sense"

So many good gems to choose from.

Yep. I want more of this from show Stannis. I keep saying he's my favorite in the books (and quite honestly, my choice to win the throne), but my friends who watch the show are like "why do you like this dick?"

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Renly: "You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid."
Stannis: "In your bed she's like to die that way."

This reminds me of something, Is Margaery sleeping with her brother or are these lies by Cersei etc?

 

[phaze]

.

 

[CassSept]

This reminds me of something, Is Margaery sleeping with her brother or are these lies by Cersei etc?

But her brother is gay.

Is she sleeping around - that's a difficult question because apparently she indeed isn't a maiden (more Cersei's lucky paranoia guess than actual knowledge), though with whom she had sex if that is true - I don't think there are hints, huh?

 

[Captain_Spanky]

But her brother is gay.

Is she sleeping around - that's a difficult question because apparently she indeed isn't a maiden (more Cersei's lucky paranoia guess than actual knowledge), though with whom she had sex if that is true - I don't think there are hints, huh?

She claims she broke her hymen horse riding, which is possible I believe.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

But her brother is gay.

Is she sleeping around - that's a difficult question because apparently she indeed isn't a maiden (more Cersei's lucky paranoia guess than actual knowledge), though with whom she had sex if that is true - I don't think there are hints, huh?

Doesn't mean anything, he may be bi or he may just be attracted to her, look at Jaime, he's only committed to Cersei. I was just wondering, it seems unlikely but I couldn't remember what made Cersei suggest it.

 

[hemtae]

Doesn't mean anything, he may be bi or he may just be attracted to her, look at Jaime, he's only committed to Cersei. I was just wondering, it seems unlikely but I couldn't remember what made Cersei suggest it.

I thought she specifically told the bard person not to say it since Ser Loras was a hero?

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I thought she specifically told the bard person not to say it since Ser Loras was a hero?

I don't know but I can just remember her thinking it was true or at least thinking about accusing her and him, wasn't sure whether it was true or if she was making it up/imagining it.

 

[Reyne]

She claims she broke her hymen horse riding, which is possible I believe.

Yeah. I would also think that Maester Pycelle testimony of her using moon tea to be worth less than a fart in the wind, considering he was more or less coerced into the confession by Cersei. That is not to say Margaery is definitely virgin. I just don't think she would put her confidence in a Lannister maester.

 

[otake]

Upon re-reads, Davos chapters are some of the most enjoyable, Stannis further enhances them. Davos and Victarrion chapters are amazing.

 

[phaze]

Moff It seems we will have to agree to disagre.

No, I already said he has the best claim and no reason to bend the knee to Daenerys.

It breaks down like this:

7 kingdoms
aegon conquers them -> legitimacy through conquest
now important for you: the heirs of the old 7 kingdowms lost their claim because of that, only targaryens matter now
targaryens rule for 800 years -> legitimacy through heritage
now important for you: sill, only targaryen heritage matters now, the 7 old kings still dont mean anything
robert host smashes aerys IIs army and kills him -> legitimacy through conquest
now important for you: just like before with the targaryens, the old rulers lost ALL their claim, only the baretheon line is important now
robert dies, he has no kids of his own, his oldest brother, sannis, is the one true king -> legitimacy through heritage

I don't think Aegon gained legitimacy through conquest nor that heirs of 7 kingdoms lost their claim. For me the Targaryens are rightful heirs to iron throne precisely because they warmed it for the past centuries. The throne is theirs by usucaption if you want to call it that.
Given that no one outside of Robb fought or fights for the independence from Iron Throne the question of their claim is largely moot but I would say Robb was right in his.

The thing about kingship that it's important to remember is that at the end of the day, it's always about leadership/effectiveness and all that guff about legitimacy and a divine right to rule etc. is just propaganda to mollify that bit of human nature that doesn't think it's very wise or particularly fair for that one guy should be in charge just because his dad was.

In medieval France (sort of... it was Francia, so it was technically proto-France or a ß-version of France), the kings came from the Merovingian line of succession. Thing is that somewhere along the way, they had either delegated away or had their effective power/control usurped by their nobles and officials, to the point where the king was just a bearded puppet for the man who was really in control - the Mayor Domo, Charles Martel.

It got to the point where Martel pulled an Odoacer and just declined to appoint a new king when the old one died. His son Pepin later wrote to the Pope, asking whether kingship lay in titles and heritage or where actual power resided. The Pope, needing Pepin to keep local Italian powers in check and himself wanting to break from the nominal power of the Emperor in far-off Qarth Constantinople, answered that the latter was true and anointed Pepin the king of Francia.

Incidentally, this story is why I think the Tyrells in Highgarden and the Martells in Dorne are badly named. The Martells should be ruling in Highgarden (France) and the Dornish (Spanish) should be the Castels/Aragorns/Asturians or something equally pseudo-Spanish-sounding.

If we're showing France as a example then lets remember that from Hugo Capet in 987 on, up to 1830 and the Orleanist usurpation, the throne always passed to the rightful heir according to the Salic Law.

 

[daripad]

Upon re-reads, Davos chapters are some of the most enjoyable, Stannis further enhances them. Davos and Victarrion chapters are amazing.

I hope is true, because the first time I just read the Davos chapters for Stannis and Victarion is just a lame character IMO

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I hope is true, because the first time I just read the Davos chapters for Stannis and Victarion is just a lame character IMO

Let's be honest, the 'The North Remembers' chapter is so awesome that it makes all his other chapters enjoyable (I liked his chapters anyway).
There seems to be a split decision about Victarion, I think he's pretty awesome but I do see a lot of dislike for him, one thing that most people seem to agree on though, is that he won't make the end of the series

 

[Reyne]

I don't think Aegon gained legitimacy through conquest nor that heirs of 7 kingdoms lost their claim. For me the Targaryens are rightful heirs to iron throne precisely because they warmed it for the past centuries. The throne is theirs by usucaption if you want to call it that.

Aegon definitely gained his legitimacy as king of Westeros through conquest. He is known as Aegon the Conqueror, after all.

As for being the rightful heir or not, from the Targaryen perspective, certainly only a Targaryen could be a heir to their dynasty. And so long a Targaryen lives, they can certainly press their claim, but what does that matter, when Westeros is primarily a feudal society? By all reckoning, it was feudal long before the Targaryen landed and it is probably like to stay that for a while more.

Hence, my opinion on the matter is that whoever gains the support of most or all the lords in Westeros would be rightful ruler. And since it is also a primogeniture, the child of that King/Queen would be the rightful heir. That is the perspective the lords of Westeros.

So even if there is a rightful heir to the Targaryen dynasty, they won't care none, unless he manages to gain the support of enough lords to take the Iron Throne back by force, in which case it all comes down to conquest again. The same is true for all the other houses, large and small, regardless if they have ruled the castle and land for thousands of years.

Given that no one outside of Robb fought or fights for the independence from Iron Throne the question of their claim is largely moot but I would say Robb was right in his.

Well, the Iron born did too, as they have before. Only Euron actually thought about taking the Iron Throne.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I also think book Stannis is good, and not at all boring or humorless. Certainly, he has a gloomy personality and is easy to anger. But his snappy remarks are almost always clever and shows that Stannis understand the irony of things better than most.

Some quotes:

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."

"Without a son of Winterfell to stand beside me, I can only hope to win the north by battle. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one."

"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them cold clear water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes."

Davos: "I do not know this Lord of Light, but I knew the gods we burned this morning. The Smith has kept my ships safe, while the Mother has given me seven strong sons.
Stannis: Your wife has given you seven strong sons. Do you pray to her? It was wood we burned this morning."

Davos: "Give me knights as heralds...-"
Stannis: "I could give you those men, yes, I have at least a hundred knights who prefer reading to fighting."

Renly: "You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid."
Stannis: "In your bed she's like to die that way."

"Weddings have become more perilous than battles, it would seem."

"Everyone else has seen the thing, why not a blind man?"

"You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife?"

Janos: "Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?"
Stannis: "Any of you, I would think. Even the cook."

Asha: "Your Grace's royal brother was renowned for turning fallen foes into friend. Make me your man."
Stannis: "The gods did not make you a man. How can I?"

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

"You chatter like magpies, and with less sense"

So many good gems to choose from.

Stannis is definitely awesome. I didn't care much for him when I first read the books, but over the years I've warmed to him.

 

[Navidson REC]

Stannis is definitely awesome. I didn't care much for him when I first read the books, but over the years I've warmed to him.

Sooo, as someone who only just (three days ago) finished ADWD:

What's the consensus: Is Stannis dead?

Seriously, ADWD - again - was full of such bummers (in a good way, I guess).
For instance, when Tyrion apparently drowned. Boy, was I angry.
And Jon's final chapter... I got so mad at Ramsay's letter... Then, Jon's plan got me extremely pumped! But, well, we all know how that ended.

What's the community's take on this, anyway? I've learned not to trust GRRM when it comes to apparent character deaths. I got the impression that Jon actually died. I personally drew the conclusion that he will live on through Ghost though, as established by the prologue and Bran's chapters, among others. Any opinions?

 

[Dysun]

Nobody really thinks Stannis is dead and if Jon is dead it's temporary with Melisandre being there and the Azor Ahai stuff

 

[Helmholtz]

Sooo, as someone who only just (three days ago) finished ADWD:

What's the consensus: Is Stannis dead?

Seriously, ADWD - again - was full of such bummers (in a good way, I guess).
For instance, when Tyrion apparently drowned. Boy, was I angry.
And Jon's final chapter... I got so mad at Ramsay's letter... Then, Jon's plan got me extremely pumped! But, well, we all know how that ended.

What's the community's take on this, anyway? I've learned not to trust GRRM when it comes to apparent character deaths. I got the impression that Jon actually died. I personally drew the conclusion that he will live on through Ghost though, as established by the prologue and Bran's chapters, among others. Any opinions?

Eh, one of the things I'm not sure I care for in the books is the bait and switch on deaths. Arya getting hit in the head in aSoS, Tyrion "drowning", Bran and Rickon to name a few. It makes me seriously doubt a character like Jon's fate unless the death is 100% confirmed. Even then you have cases like Catelyn getting brought back to life.

 

[Trasher]

Eh, one of the things I'm not sure I care for in the books is the bait and switch on deaths. Arya getting hit in the head in aSoS, Tyrion "drowning", Bran and Rickon to name a few. It makes me seriously doubt a character like Jon's fate unless the death is 100% confirmed. Even then you have cases like Catelyn getting brought back to life.

We still don't even really know if the Hound is dead right? I think he is, but I know others still have hope that he lived.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

We still don't even really know if the Hound is dead right? I think he is, but I know others still have hope that he lived.

It's pretty obvious from Brienne's chapter on the Quiet Isle in Feast that Sandor Clegane is alive.

 

[Trasher]

It's pretty obvious from Brienne's chapter on the Quiet Isle in Feast that Sandor Clegane is alive.

Oh yeah, shit. I had forgotten about that chapter. It has been a while since I read that book, and I literally just finished ADWD. So he's apparently just chilling at that monastery? Healing up etc?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Oh yeah, shit. I had forgotten about that chapter. It has been a while since I read that book, and I literally just finished ADWD. So he's apparently just chilling at that monastery? Healing up etc?

Yeah, he's there digging graves or something.

 

[blainethemono]

Oh yeah, shit. I had forgotten about that chapter. It has been a while since I read that book, and I literally just finished ADWD. So he's apparently just chilling at that monastery? Healing up etc?

I've probably posted this twice in the thread already but I love it so much I have to post it again

The Golem and the Gravedigger

 

[Trasher]

Yeah, he's there digging graves or something.

Oh yeah Brienne stares at a "grave digger" or whatever. Seems kinda silly though because he's like the easiest person ever to recognize.

I've probably posted this twice in the thread already but I love it so much I have to post it again

The Golem and the Gravedigger

Oh wow. That makes it blatantly obvious. Now I feel stupid ha.

I do remember thinking that the grave digger was peculiar, but I guess I didn't put much thought into it.

 

[Memento Mori]

That was probably the first time Brienne had met Sandor. Jorah didn't recognise Arstan Whitebeard as Selmy and he's one of the most famous people in Westeros.

 

[Trasher]

I found my answer for that.

the brothers and novices go cowled, with scarves wrapped around their faces. Clegane's distinctive burned face would be invisible to Brienne.

 

[CloudWolf]

Sooo, as someone who only just (three days ago) finished ADWD:

What's the consensus: Is Stannis dead?

I think Ramsay was bluffing about Stannis. Not too sure about the fate of Mance though.

 

[Trasher]

I think Ramsay was bluffing about Stannis. Not too sure about the fate of Mance though.

Your false king is dead bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.
Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.
I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.
I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.
Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

He's asking for Jon to return "Arya" and Theon to him, but we know she and Theon were last at Stannis' camp. Therefore it is likely a lie since if he had actually defeated Stannis then he would have discovered the actual whereabouts of them.

 

[timetokill]

Arya is going to kill Zombie Gregor.

Qyburn: "My queen, your champion stands ready. There is no man in all the Seven Kingdoms who can hope to stand against him."

Arya will straight up do the LotR style "I am no man" kill of him. Ohhhhhhhhhh

 

[Jack Scofield]

Eh, one of the things I'm not sure I care for in the books is the bait and switch on deaths. Arya getting hit in the head in aSoS, Tyrion "drowning", Bran and Rickon to name a few. It makes me seriously doubt a character like Jon's fate unless the death is 100% confirmed. Even then you have cases like Catelyn getting brought back to life.

This is a major problem I have with the books. I just don't believe it whenever a character "dies" anymore. I want to be emotionally affected and surprised, but I can't help thinking, "eh, he's probably not dead."

I blame Martin's constant use of bait-and-switch regarding character deaths. They're just meaningless by now. Is Jon dead? Probably not. Stannis? Nah. It's funny, Tyrion's drowning didn't even register to me as a death. I just saw it as an chapter-ending cliffhanger, and it didn't even cross my mind that he might have died.

Come on, Martin. Make deaths important and permanent again.

 

[EviLore]

This is a major problem I have with the books. I just don't believe it whenever a character "dies" anymore. I want to be emotionally affected and surprised, but I can't help thinking, "eh, he's probably not dead."

I blame Martin's constant use of bait-and-switch regarding character deaths. They're just meaningless by now. Is Jon dead? Probably not. Stannis? Nah. It's funny, Tyrion's drowning didn't even register to me as a death. I just saw it as an chapter-ending cliffhanger, and it didn't even cross my mind that he might have died.

Come on, Martin. Make deaths important and permanent again.

Strongly agree. Huge failing of ADWD.

 

[Basileus777]

When you look back at the books, it's actually pretty surprising how few main characters have actually died. The only non-guest POV characters that have been killed off are Ned and Catelyn, and Cat was back by the end of the same book.

And even with Ned the only surprising part about Ned is that he was given a POV, not that he was killed. That's where GRRM tricked us, Ned is essentially the wise older advisor, not the main character, which should have been obvious, and is blindingly so in hindsight.

But in AFfC and ADwD I think you do see Martin become increasingly reliant on cheap literary tricks. The false deaths, the false identities, and false cliffhangers, he's done it before. But in ADWD it finally reaches the point where I the reader have become numb to it and simply don't trust the author. It actually removes tension from these scenes. And even where he would otherwise have pulled it off in the past, he fucks it up anyway: Quentyn was supposed to be the shocking death of ADwD, but unlike Ned in AGoT or Robb and Cat, Martin utterly failed convincing most people of his importance to begin with.

 

[daripad]

He's asking for Jon to return "Arya" and Theon to him, but we know she and Theon were last at Stannis' camp. Therefore it is likely a lie since if he had actually defeated Stannis then he would have discovered the actual whereabouts of them.

You know what is corious in that letter? He wrote black crows. Only the wildlings think of the Night's Watch as black crows

 

[Judderman]

You know what is corious in that letter? He wrote black crows. Only the wildlings think of the Night's Watch as black crows

Mance, you shifty bastard.

 

[Drkirby]

Yeah, there is a decent amount of evidence that Mance wrote the letter, such as the info being a bit to specific for Ramsey to have even asked about, to the fact that there is no skin sent with the letter.

 

[lingiii]

You know what is corious in that letter? He wrote black crows. Only the wildlings think of the Night's Watch as black crows

hah how did I not catch that?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Whoa, I've never thought of the possibility that Mance wrote the letter, very interesting.

 

[exYle]

You know what is corious in that letter? He wrote black crows. Only the wildlings think of the Night's Watch as black crows

Yeah, there is a decent amount of evidence that Mance wrote the letter, such as the info being a bit to specific for Ramsey to have even asked about, to the fact that there is no skin sent with the letter.

Whoa.

WHOA.

 

[Dresden]

You know what is corious in that letter? He wrote black crows. Only the wildlings think of the Night's Watch as black crows

Nice.

 

[Aiii]

If it wasn't for the internet 90% of the hidden stuff in those books would've gone right over my head hehe.

 

[m3k]

You know what is corious in that letter? He wrote black crows. Only the wildlings think of the Night's Watch as black crows

damn lol

 

[FootballFan]

It was either Stannis, Ramsey or Mance who wrote the pink letter. Some of the content is questionable. How would Jon know who Reek is for example, why would Ramsey need the Red Priestess or Stannis' wife and daughter if Stannis is dead. The person who wrote the letter seems to know much about the happenings at the Wall. If it is Ramsey, then he extracted the info from Mance or possibly his companions. But the letter could very easily be written by Stannis or Mance himself.

My other theory is that it was Melisandre. Why? I don't know, I saw it in the fire.

Bastard

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess.

I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton,

Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

 

[Apath]

What would that mean if Mance wrote the letter?

 

[lingiii]

What would that mean if Mance wrote the letter?

potentially he knows more the world than he's let on: he knows about Dany or Jon being Targaryen? or he's playing some long-game we can't see; maybe he wants to be King in the North and pulling the Night's Watch off the Wall is part of his strategy?

maybe he's just bitter and wants to stab Jon for double-agenting him (not likely)

regardless, I see it as part of some bigger North play than we're privy to yet.

Spoiler

maybe Mance got to Winterfell and Bran possessed him through the Tree Internet and made him send the letter because the once-ler is threatening the truffula trees or somesuch bullshit. fucking Tree Internet.