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[Pollux]

Bought. Now I'll be able to actually read the damned thing.

Can you give a review of how all the art and stuff looks on the kindle? I'm afraid that it will be too small and I'll have to try and zoom in all over the place

 

[TestOfTide]

I looked this up and I think the only case was Lucamore the Lusty who got gelded and sent away by Jaehaerys I.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lucamore_Strong

So there is a chance that Jaime takes the black. I have a feeling that the following the happen at some point in WoW:

Spoiler

- brienne dressed as the hound loses to the mountain
- a heartbroken jaime will take the black to stay away from Cersei (thus cersei loses jaime)
- jaime and jon snow revived duel to fulfill jaime's prophetic dream
- aegon/connnington and the golden company invade kings landing and kill tommen and myrcella
- other bad shit happens to cersei
- a heartbroken cersei decides she has been through enough and wishes she were dead
- arya gives cersei the gift of mercy.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

So there is a chance that Jaime takes the black.

There's a kind of neat symmetry between the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard. They're both monochrome in terms of uniform, both (officially) celibate and banned from owning property, both have the mission of guarding Westeros (one protects the centre, the other protects the edge) and both have protagonists who gain leadership and are changed by the experience in equal and opposite ways. Jon Snow even has black hair and Jaime Lannister has blonde.

They're like twins.

 

[Aiii]

There's a kind of neat symmetry between the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard. They're both monochrome in terms of uniform, both (officially) celibate and banned from owning property, both have the mission of guarding Westeros (one protects the centre, the other protects the edge) and both have protagonists who gain leadership and are changed by the experience in equal and opposite ways. Jon Snow even has black hair and Jaime Lannister has blonde.

They're like twins.

Targaryen Twins?

 

[RedShift]

There's a kind of neat symmetry between the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard. They're both monochrome in terms of uniform, both (officially) celibate and banned from owning property, both have the mission of guarding Westeros (one protects the centre, the other protects the edge) and both have protagonists who gain leadership and are changed by the experience in equal and opposite ways. Jon Snow even has black hair and Jaime Lannister has blonde.

They're like twins.

I think in WOIAF it's mentioned that Aegon modelled the Kingsguard on the Night's Watch.

 

[ripps]

would give my left nut for an update on how he's getting on with winds

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I think in WOIAF it's mentioned that Aegon modelled the Kingsguard on the Night's Watch.

Oh okay. Haven't read World.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Has anyone here read The Ice Dragon? How is it?

 

[PhoenixDark]

So there is a chance that Jaime takes the black. I have a feeling that the following the happen at some point in WoW:

Spoiler

- brienne dressed as the hound loses to the mountain
- a heartbroken jaime will take the black to stay away from Cersei (thus cersei loses jaime)
- jaime and jon snow revived duel to fulfill jaime's prophetic dream
- aegon/connnington and the golden company invade kings landing and kill tommen and myrcella
- other bad shit happens to cersei
- a heartbroken cersei decides she has been through enough and wishes she were dead
- arya gives cersei the gift of mercy.

Spoiler

Arya knows Cersei, so if she kills her it would be on her own volition, not as a Faceless Man/Woman.

I'm more apt to believe Arya will quit (or be kicked out of) the FM and go north with Stannis' sellswords.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Got World of Ice and Fire yesterday. So far my favorite parts have been

Spoiler

the bit about the Seastone Chair being built by some other civilization before the First Men arrived and the art of an Other riding a giant spider.

 

[BobTheFork]

Spoiler

Arya knows Cersei, so if she kills her it would be on her own volition, not as a Faceless Man/Woman.

I'm more apt to believe Arya will quit (or be kicked out of) the FM and go north with Stannis' sellswords.

Spoiler

The FM doesn't seem like the kind of place you 'quit'. I've been wondering since she got there if part of her story would include her being on the run from the FM

 

[Iksenpets]

Spoiler

The FM doesn't seem like the kind of place you 'quit'. I've been wondering since she got there if part of her story would include her being on the run from the FM

Yeah, I honestly can't really see a happy ending for Arya so long as the FM are around. She really has to either stay a faceless assassin forever, or be on the run forever. Or just die somehow. I can't imagine they just let people leave with all their secrets, at least not once you're past the initial training. And to people who see death as a gift or whatever, killing you once you were done with your service to God seems kind of logical.

 

[Apt101]

Yeah, I honestly can't really see a happy ending for Arya so long as the FM are around. She really has to either stay a faceless assassin forever, or be on the run forever. Or just die somehow. I can't imagine they just let people leave with all their secrets, at least not once you're past the initial training. And to people who see death as a gift or whatever, killing you once you were done with your service to God seems kind of logical.

Well, everything can change on a whim. Precedent doesn't appear to equate to anything beyond a shocking death or betrayal to Martin. Her time in the wild could culminate to nothing, or play out as some crux demise to be "shocking", or be a pointless circumstance that makes the next POV character's narrative readable - or at least tolerable while he drones on about nothing and the food they eat for twenty pages while traveling here-or-there.

 

[NeoGiff]

A Redditor went to the Cushing Library which houses the original ADWD manuscript. It's a very interesting read, and the passive-aggressiveness of some of the editor's comments is pretty funny.

Here's their account. One long-standing fan theory is now put to bed:

Spoiler

Coldhands is NOT Benjen.

 

[You Know Nothing]

The editor's hate for the repeated use of "words are wind" has me rolling.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

A Redditor went to the Cushing Library which houses the original ADWD manuscript. It's a very interesting read, and the passive-aggressiveness of some of the editor's comments is pretty funny.

Here's their account. One long-standing fan theory is now put to bed:

Spoiler

Coldhands is NOT Benjen.

so now we know why the TV show cut him out then. he wasn't anyone special

 

[Basileus777]

Wasn't Benjen as Coldhands already debunked in ADWD?

The editor's hate for the repeated use of "words are wind" has me rolling.

She's alluded to this before and has said that GRRM mostly ignores her suggestions. But it was definitely amusing to see it in writing like that.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Wasn't Benjen as Coldhands already debunked in ADWD?

Pretty much.

 

[Chopper]

Pretty much.

How?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

How?

Leaf talking about Coldhands being around for a very long time or something like that, Leaf wouldn't consider a couple years as such if Coldhands was Benjen.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Yeah, I never really understood that assumption.

 

[Chopper]

Leaf talking about Coldhands being around for a very long time or something like that, Leaf wouldn't consider a couple years as such if Coldhands was Benjen.

Good point.

 

[Brakke]

Checkov's Benjen gotta get down off that mantel some day.

 

[NeoGiff]

Don't worry guys, he's still Daario and Euron.

 

[dan2026]

Isn't there only two books left?

How on earth is this story going to wrap up with so many characters and plots, some of which are half a world away from each other?

 

[bengraven]

STET.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Isn't there only two books left?

How on earth is this story going to wrap up with so many characters and plots, some of which are half a world away from each other?

Wouldn't surprise me if GRRM reveals an eighth book will happen tbh.

 

[Fuzzy]

Wouldn't surprise me if GRRM reveals an eighth book will happen tbh.

It would be hilarious if he released ADoS without telling the public it wasn't the last book in order to make it a surprise that the final book would once again be called A Time for Wolves.

 

[Iksenpets]

Wasn't Benjen as Coldhands already debunked in ADWD?



She's alluded to this before and has said that GRRM mostly ignores her suggestions. But it was definitely amusing to see it in writing like that.

It seems like a pretty common refrain that Dance needed better editing, but I guess it really just needed GRRM to be more receptive to editing. Everything she says in those notes is pretty on point.

Someone needs to get in there and check the other books' manuscripts to see if we can find anymore deep lore answers hidden in the margins.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

A Redditor went to the Cushing Library which houses the original ADWD manuscript. It's a very interesting read, and the passive-aggressiveness of some of the editor's comments is pretty funny.

Here's their account. One long-standing fan theory is now put to bed:

Spoiler

Coldhands is NOT Benjen.

So the editor is also a detractor. That's kind of amazing.

Until Tyrion VII, every chapter was in the same order it ended up being published in. After that, almost every chapter was reordered or switched around, but the content of said chapters was the same as what ended up being published. Tyrion VII was originally two parts, with the first part ending as Tyrion went to sleep chained to the wall and the second part picking up the next morning, as he and Jorah are preparing to go meet the widow of the waterfront.

So the Mereeneese Knot was bull shit.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So the Mereeneese Knot was bull shit.

The library doesn't include the Knot revisions...

At one point Dany's first ADWD chapter was Daznak's Pit. At another point Quentyn arrived on the day of the marriage.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

STET.

For those of you who don't already know, it basically means "Ignore this comment, I'm an idiot" in editing/markup palace. You write it in when you're editing something and think you've fixed it, then think about it a little and realise that you're wrong.

 

[Blizzard]

For those of you who don't already know, it basically means "Ignore this comment, I'm an idiot" in editing/markup palace. You write it in when you're editing something and think you've fixed it, then think about it a little and realise that you're wrong.

I assume you mean "parlance", but even so, are you certain about the usage of STET in this case? I thought it was GRRM saying "ignore this editor's correction, we're doing things my way" instead of the editor correcting themselves.

Notes from GRRM's editor were in green, with GRRM's own comments and edits added in red.

S/he began passive-aggressively numbering every occurance in the margins. Most of these had a big red STET scrawled on top.

 

[Savitar]

Got the Lands of Ice & Fire along with The World of Ice & Fire the Untold History and gotta say Untold History was a giant pleasure to read. It didn't reveal anything more about the others but it was full of all sorts of interesting bits on characters and the past. You could tell that certain bits were held off on so they could do things with certain events if they wish.

Lately been wondering despite GRRM having told the TV shows creators what he plans to do can't help but think that in the end what happens in the novel may differ quite a bit in some aspects. If nothing else because GRRM will want to surprise people.

 

[Brakke]

STET.

I laughed at almost every single one of those. The editor was almost always exactly right. Can't stop that GRR train tho.

I assume you mean "parlance", but even so, are you certain about the usage of STET in this case? I thought it was GRRM saying "ignore this editor's correction, we're doing things my way" instead of the editor correcting themselves.

^ yes

 

[SamVimes]

I don't see the passive aggressiveness from either side to be honest. I agree with the editor but Martin is the author and he can do whatever the fuck he wants and she was just writing notes and doing her job, nothing passive aggressive about that.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I don't see the passive aggressiveness from either side to be honest. I agree with the editor but Martin is the author and he can do whatever the fuck he wants and she was just writing notes and doing her job, nothing passive aggressive about that.

I agree. It's her job to be a "detractor", so to speak. She did a good job too, sadly GRRM is stubborn and has enough clout as an author to be able to disregard her advice.

 

[Savitar]

One big question that has been on my mind for some time is what exactly did Rhaegar want with Lyanna Stark so out of the blue. Some can say he became infatuated with her but it seemed so out of place for who and what he was doing up to that point. Especially if the rumors of him planning to go against his father was true, it seemed clear he knew his father had to be removed and he was getting in a position to do so. Then he does the kidnapping which had to be one of the dumbest moves possibly, it's on par with Joffrey beheading Ned Stark. It makes no sense he would do this. It destroys everything he can do and starts the war.

 

[Kinokou]

One big question that has been on my mind for some time is what exactly did Rhaegar want with Lyanna Stark so out of the blue. Some can say he became infatuated with her but it seemed so out of place for who and what he was doing up to that point. Especially if the rumors of him planning to go against his father was true, it seemed clear he knew his father had to be removed and he was getting in a position to do so. Then he does the kidnapping which had to be one of the dumbest moves possibly, it's on par with Joffrey beheading Ned Stark. It makes no sense he would do this. It destroys everything he can do and starts the war.

Maybe The World of Ice and Fire holds the answer

Spoiler

We have earlier discussed House Stark’s role in the Dance of the Dragons. Let it be added that Lord Cregan Stark reaped many rewards for his loyal support of King Aegon III…even if it was not a royal princess marrying into his family, as had been agreed in the Pact of Ice and Fire made when the doomed prince Jacaerys Velaryon had flown to Winterfell upon his dragon.

- Maester Yandel, The World of Ice and Fire, Page 141.

Spoiler

So Rhaegar maybe tried to fulfill the pact, and it would not be so weired for him since he seemed to believe in prophecy.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

One big question that has been on my mind for some time is what exactly did Rhaegar want with Lyanna Stark so out of the blue. Some can say he became infatuated with her but it seemed so out of place for who and what he was doing up to that point. Especially if the rumors of him planning to go against his father was true, it seemed clear he knew his father had to be removed and he was getting in a position to do so. Then he does the kidnapping which had to be one of the dumbest moves possibly, it's on par with Joffrey beheading Ned Stark. It makes no sense he would do this. It destroys everything he can do and starts the war.

I could have this all fucked up but

Spoiler

didn't Rhaegar first meet Lyanna when she pulled her Knight of the Laughing Tree stunt? Or at least he became fascinated/infatuated with her then? As for the kidnapping I always assumed it was a case of Rhaegar wanting to keep Lyanna and their unborn child safe from Aerys and/or Robert.

 

[Brakke]

Don't spoiler tag speculation, nor anything from released books.

I think you're mischaracterizing Rhaegar and Lyanna. Not "kidnapping" if she went with him willingly and married him. Jon Snow is the trueborn heir to the throne for sure. That'll matter both because Red God blood magic and because Jon's torn loyalties.

 

[q_q]

One big question that has been on my mind for some time is what exactly did Rhaegar want with Lyanna Stark so out of the blue. Some can say he became infatuated with her but it seemed so out of place for who and what he was doing up to that point. Especially if the rumors of him planning to go against his father was true, it seemed clear he knew his father had to be removed and he was getting in a position to do so. Then he does the kidnapping which had to be one of the dumbest moves possibly, it's on par with Joffrey beheading Ned Stark. It makes no sense he would do this. It destroys everything he can do and starts the war.

Its all about dat prince that was promised.

 

[Loke13]

Its all about dat prince that was promised.

And little did he know that Dany was there the whole time.

 

[Incandenza]

The person who read the ADWD manuscript is going through the earlier books now.

Pretty funny that her post even got Random House and GRRM a bit freaked out. I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to actually put this stuff online.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Its all about dat prince that was promised.

*Imagines the millions of times this sort of reply has been done over the course of nearly 20 years.*

 

[Baraka in the White House]

So, when the white walkers start heading south and a really long, shitty winter begins, will it affect just Westeros or the whole world? Like, will it be snowing in Volantis too or will the people of Essos just chug along while the west goes to hell?

Also, what a shortsighted fuck Tywin is. Hey, we're on the cusp of winter but let's go ahead and torch the bread basket of Westeros so my grandson can rule over a starving kingdom.

 

[Loke13]

So, when the white walkers start heading south and a really long, shitty winter begins, will it affect just Westeros or the whole world? Like, will it be snowing in Volantis too or will the people of Essos just chug along while the west goes to hell?

Also, what a shortsighted fuck Tywin is. Hey, we're on the cusp of winter but let's go ahead and torch the bread basket of Westeros so my grandson can rule over a starving kingdom.

It's the whole world. Thanks to the encyclopedia it was revealed that the Long Night wasn't just a Westeros exclusive event.

 

[Tubie]

So, when the white walkers start heading south and a really long, shitty winter begins, will it affect just Westeros or the whole world? Like, will it be snowing in Volantis too or will the people of Essos just chug along while the west goes to hell?

Also, what a shortsighted fuck Tywin is. Hey, we're on the cusp of winter but let's go ahead and torch the bread basket of Westeros so my grandson can rule over a starving kingdom.

The whole world I think. In The World of Ice and Fire it mentions different parts of the world having different stories about the long night or a cruel long winter.

 

[Brakke]

It's the whole world. Thanks to the encyclopedia it was revealed that the Long Night wasn't just a Westeros exclusive event.

Oh wow. I've always wondered about that. Man I guess I really am going to have to pick up this book huh.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So, when the white walkers start heading south and a really long, shitty winter begins, will it affect just Westeros or the whole world? Like, will it be snowing in Volantis too or will the people of Essos just chug along while the west goes to hell?

Also, what a shortsighted fuck Tywin is. Hey, we're on the cusp of winter but let's go ahead and torch the bread basket of Westeros so my grandson can rule over a starving kingdom.

The whole world, but I'd imagine Westeros will get hit hardest first due to proximity to the far north. Azor Ahai is an eastern legend, whereas Westeros seems to refer to the same character as the Last Hero. WOIAF notes that other continents also have different names, including the hero having a tail.

And in TWOW there's a note about (minor spoiler but I'll mark it)

Spoiler

Arianne stumbling across a weirwood tree near Dorne, and a cave with runes drawn on the walls; sounds quite similar to the cave Bran enters in ADWD