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[Purple Cheeto]

So the lord high lord of pettiness GURM has requested that the manuscript be locked from here on out. Guess no one else will be able to read through it ever again.

On the plus side he wrote nearly as many words last year on his NAB about the NFL as are contained in the Mercy Chapter, so that's a thing at least.

 

[Tubie]

So the lord high lord of pettiness GURM has requested that the manuscript be locked from here on out. Guess no one else will be able to read through it ever again.

On the plus side he wrote nearly as many words last year on his NAB about the NFL as are contained in the Mercy Chapter, so that's a thing at least.

Maybe the NFL is part of A Song of Ice and Fire, and we get a chapter from the Giants and/or Jets point of view in the next book.

Spoiler

The wait is driving me insane, and I die a little inside whenever I read about his millionth side project on his Not A Blog.

 

[You Know Nothing]

So the lord high lord of pettiness GURM has requested that the manuscript be locked from here on out. Guess no one else will be able to read through it ever again.

That sucks. Seeing the process that went into writing the books was pretty neat.

Someone please shop GURM's face on nofunallowed.jpg

 

[PhoenixDark]

So the lord high lord of pettiness GURM has requested that the manuscript be locked from here on out. Guess no one else will be able to read through it ever again.

On the plus side he wrote nearly as many words last year on his NAB about the NFL as are contained in the Mercy Chapter, so that's a thing at least.

It'll be locked until TWOW is released. His argument is that he doesn't want people going through and spoiling TWOW events or reveals, like the Coldhands thing. The rest of the manuscripts are open and the guy on reddit has already found some interesting stuff: specifically that at one point there were no dragon eggs in the first book; the Targ sigil was a dragon but Dany did not have eggs/dragons. The first book is dedicated to Phyllis Eisenstein, a sci fi writer who convinced Martin to include the dragons.
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2slaqg/spoilers_all_todays_visit_to_the_cushing_library/

I'd imagine there will be some very interesting stuff in the old manuscripts, should be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Wanting control over your artistic creation = pettiness now?

 

[Ratrat]

Ive been reading World of Ice and Fire and with all this stuff about Aeris wanting to get rid of Rhaegar and suspecting him of plotting with the Starks... why didnt he use the kidnapping of Lyanna to get rid of Rhaegar once and for all? Am I missing something? Because he then starts a war because someone challenged Rhaegar to a duel when he seemed to have wanted Viserys as his heir anyway.

 

[Loke13]

Ive been reading World of Ice and Fire and with all this stuff about Aeris wanting to get rid of Rhaegar and suspecting him of plotting with the Starks... why didnt he use the kidnapping of Lyanna to get rid of Rhaegar once and for all? Am I missing something? Because he then starts a war because someone challenged Rhaegar to a duel when he seemed to have wanted Viserys as his heir anyway.

Keep in mind that Aery's nickname was "The Mad King" are you really surprised he did something irrational?

 

[Brakke]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=982685

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

Apparently Dunk & Egg coming out all bound together in October. Cool. Every month or so I think "man I should go find all those" but then I never do. Finally won't have an excuse if it gets published.

 

[RobotChant]

“The novellas,” said Johnson, “are illustrated in black and white line drawings

For some reason I thought the artwork would be in color.

 

[Brazil]

It's kind of bizarre that they haven't released a compilation of Dunk & Egg in the US yet when most territories have already had it for ages.

 

[KingHenrik30]

Personally I'm just caring less and less about the whole series. And it's gonna be absolutely hilarious to see the chop job that Dumb & Dumber over at HBO do in the next couple of seasons making up their own, inferior shit.

Remember when we all thought that the show would force him to write faster? Salad days...

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ive been reading World of Ice and Fire and with all this stuff about Aeris wanting to get rid of Rhaegar and suspecting him of plotting with the Starks... why didnt he use the kidnapping of Lyanna to get rid of Rhaegar once and for all? Am I missing something? Because he then starts a war because someone challenged Rhaegar to a duel when he seemed to have wanted Viserys as his heir anyway.

Likely because a challenge against Rhaegar was still a challenge against Targaryen supremacy. Aerys couldn't throw his heir under the bus, it would threaten his own rule.

 

[Fjordson]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=982685

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

Apparently Dunk & Egg coming out all bound together in October. Cool. Every month or so I think "man I should go find all those" but then I never do. Finally won't have an excuse if it gets published.

I'm in exactly the same boat, haha. Gotten into basically everything ASOIF except for the novellas.

I always hear that the Dunk & Egg stuff is pretty good, so I'll definitely pick up the collection.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=982685

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

Apparently Dunk & Egg coming out all bound together in October. Cool. Every month or so I think "man I should go find all those" but then I never do. Finally won't have an excuse if it gets published.

Is the Dunk and Egg novella series even done though? I thought GRRM was writing more of them?

 

[Basileus777]

Is the Dunk and Egg novella series even done though? I thought GRRM was writing more of them?

It's far from done.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

It's far from done.

why are they releasing a collection then :/

 

[Basileus777]

why are they releasing a collection then :/

Because they're not available outside of old anthologies.

 

[Fuzzy]

Because they're not available outside of old anthologies.

And it's not like GRRM will ever finish all of his planned ones.

 

[Red Arremer]

So, I don't know if that's been mentioned yet, but in German Amazon, there's a release date for Winds of Winter, July 14 2016.

Spoiler

(and yes I know the cover placeholder is World of Ice and Fire)

 

[Intheflorsh]

So, I don't know if that's been mentioned yet, but in German Amazon, there's a release date for Winds of Winter, July 14 2016.

Spoiler

(and yes I know the cover placeholder is World of Ice and Fire)

Here's a lesson you can learn from the gaming side: never put your faith in Amazon release dates.

 

[Red Arremer]

Here's a lesson you can learn from the gaming side: never put your faith in Amazon release dates.

I'm well aware of that, and it seems that only German Amazon has that release date set. I checked US, UK and France, where there was no entry or release date, as well as Spain's and Italy's, which say March 9, 2017.

I just thought I'd bring it to your attention is all.

 

[ripps]

George RR Martin’s The Winds of Winter: no plans for publication in 2015

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

 

[Ratrat]

Keep in mind that Aery's nickname was "The Mad King" are you really surprised he did something irrational?

...true enough.

Likely because a challenge against Rhaegar was still a challenge against Targaryen supremacy. Aerys couldn't throw his heir under the bus, it would threaten his own rule.

Suppose that's possible too.

Maybe he was just glad Rhaegar pissed the Starks off instead of plotting with them.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

...y'know what, Gurm...

 

[RobotChant]

Someone made a boo boo it seems.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2urteh/spoilers_all_so_i_just_saw_this_tweet/

Anyways, to business: I was scrolling Twitter, when I noticed this tweet from Waterstones (Don't judge me). For those too lazy to click the link, it links to three photos consisting of a letter from Georgie himself to his editors, giving the broad strokes of the over all story line.

So, is this the genuine article? Do you believe that Harper Collins would truly give the info to Waterstones to publish for the world to see? I'd read somewhere that his editors had thought of publishing this letter, but only once the series had been competed..

I spoiled myself. Now screaming at some of those plotlines. If this is real, possible major spoilers in the linked images and reddit thread

 

[Fuzzy]

I saved the three images without looking at them just in case I ever want to read them. For now I'm avoiding them.

 

[PhoenixDark]

welp......

Seems like the only thing that might still happen is

Spoiler

Sansa making a heel turn, and perhaps Bran not being as good as we assume.

Also

Spoiler

Dany subjugating to the Dothraki to her absolute rule could be in TWOW.

 

[Incandenza]

Someone made a boo boo it seems.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2urteh/spoilers_all_so_i_just_saw_this_tweet/



I spoiled myself. Now screaming at some of those plotlines. If this is real, possible major spoilers in the linked images and reddit thread

Holy shit.

Not reading that.

EDIT: Oh, it's just an outline of the original trilogy. That makes me less concerned.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Overall I don't think it's particularly spoilery. Most of the plot points simply didn't happen (Sansa having a child with Joffery). But the grander, less specific plot points seem to point to what the ending will be...

also confirms who the main characters are. The three everyone would guess, and two more.

 

[Memento Mori]

Some of those spoilers:

Spoiler

Tyrion falling in unrequited love with Arya?
Jaime murdering everyone to become king?

I can't see those happening at all.

 

[RobotChant]

The line about

Spoiler

Jon's true parentage being reveled in the last book

is spoiler, imo. It doesn't tell you what exactly, but affirms beliefs.

This outline will shape the thousands of crackpot theories of the future.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Some of those spoilers:

Spoiler

Tyrion falling in unrequited love with Arya?
Jaime murdering everyone to become king?

I can't see those happening at all.

I'm really wanting to see

Spoiler

Jon and Tyrion dueling for Arya's fair hand.

 

[Iksenpets]

Original outline spoilers:

Spoiler

Things have changed so much that, other than Jon's true parentage being a reveal for the future,I really don't think much can be gleaned from this. Even the five main characters, I don't think their survival is guaranteed at this point. Arya's story in particular has flown way off course. And I don't think there's any guarantee that characters not in those five die. It really sounds like when he wrote this he only had the very basics of Stark vs. Lannister vs. Targ vs. Others penned out.

Honestly though, I can't believe anyone agreed to publish the Jon-Arya-Tyrion love triangle. That sounds insane.

 

[Brakke]

Catelyn will die at the hands of the Others, eh?

That thing is cool and bonkers but definitely not spoilers. A ton of things in there have already clearly been discarded. Fascinating read though, thanks for sharing.

It's GRR's very own ASOIAF fanfic!

 

[Purple Cheeto]

It's even more fantasy tropey than what he ended up with!

Its kind of funny how most of what he planned out sort of happened in one way or another and we are only on book 5, and that was all supposed to happen in book 1. Further cementing that he only thought this whole thing through to a certain point, changed his mind a bunch of times, finally wrote it out in its bloated form and now has no idea where to go or what to do next.

 

[Incandenza]

People place too much value on having everything planned out beforehand. Remember that all but one season of Breaking Bad was made up as they went along.

Not that ADWD is Breaking Bad level storytelling, but still.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

People place too much value on havig everything planned out beforehand. Remember that all but one season of Breaking Bad was made up as they went along.

That was a lot more centralized though. When you're making something as sprawling as ASOIAF you better know what you're laying out.

Like has already been said a bunch of times I bet he is taking so long because he genuinely does not know where to take things and has been spending the last long while re-planning it all out to its conclusion. Which is also why I think the book after the next won't take as long.

At least I hope so.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

People place too much value on having everything planned out beforehand. Remember that all but one season of Breaking Bad was made up as they went along.

Not that ADWD is Breaking Bad level storytelling, but still.

There also weren't 10 years between seasons of Breaking Bad and they didn't stretch the material from season 1 out to 5 seasons.

If you're going to take on the mantle of American Tolkien and have people tell me you're not my bitch then at least don't be a sarcastic, lazy jerk about it.

Other things I gleamed from those letters:

Spoiler

What is with George and the creepy pedo love for 11 year old Arya? I mean he's already heavily on the incest train with that stuff but throwing in a love triangle involving an 11 year? Yuck.

I do kind of wish Robb Stark had gotten to maim Joffrey. It is funny how the maiming thing got transferred to Jaime Lannister.

Oh! And the line about losing interest if he outlines too much. I wonder if telling an outline of sorts to the HBO guys is what put the final nail in his coffin for writing. He's already told someone how it ends so now he doesn't feel up to writing the rest.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Spoiler

I didn't get pedo vibes. Remember, Martin's original plan was for a considerable amount of time to pass from book to book, and even chapter to chapter. So Arya would be older by the time she got to the Wall.

At the end of the day Martin has said he never had everything planned out, just that he knows how it ends, who lives/dies, and how the major stories/POVs end. Things were changing so much during the initial writing process that I'd imagine these plot points began to fade once he got well past those early chapters. For instance Dany finds the dragon eggs late because Martin initially didn't want to have dragons in the books; the Cushing Library has a manuscript of GoT where the dragons aren't present.

 

[Basileus777]

People place too much value on having everything planned out beforehand. Remember that all but one season of Breaking Bad was made up as they went along.

Not that ADWD is Breaking Bad level storytelling, but still.

Why are you comparing a TV show with an epic fantasy series consisting of millions of words? It's a completely different situation. Breaking Bad certainly didn't have a hiatus for a decade where the showrunners had to scrap the structure of the show.

 

[Incandenza]

Why are you comparing a TV show with an epic fantasy series consisting of millions of words? It's a completely different situation. Breaking Bad certainly didn't have a hiatus for a decade where the showrunners had to scrap the structure of the show.

The point merely being that long-form storytelling doesn't need to stick to a grand predestined plan to feel cohesive by the end. Martin making big changes to the story doesn't spell doom for the last two books, even if the transition has been bumpy at times.

 

[Basileus777]

The point merely being that long-form storytelling doesn't need to stick to a grand predestined plan to feel cohesive by the end. Martin making big changes to the story doesn't spell doom for the last two books, even if the transition has been bumpy at times.

Well this all depends on the author and what is being written. There is no hard rule and obviously not everything needs to be strictly outlined. But there are inherent dangers to discovery writing epic fantasy series that many authors have run into, including GRRM himself. We already have a long history and two published books to show that the concern isn't unfounded in this case.

 

[Brakke]

Dunno why you're going to spoiler tag an entire post that's mostly speculation.

People place too much value on having everything planned out beforehand. Remember that all but one season of Breaking Bad was made up as they went along.

Not that ADWD is Breaking Bad level storytelling, but still.

I dunno. I think super detailed planning was one of the major strengths of Harry Potter and probably part of why that was such a phenomenon. Like where it went or not it's clear the whole Potter arc was intentional. Seeding stuff and paying it off organically is super hard to do but it's beautiful when a series has that kind of harmony to it.

Maybe it's an uncanny valley sort of thing. I'm thinking about The Dark Tower, which is a mess of continuity and clearly had a bunch of "well let's just include this short story I have sitting around". The Dark Tower worked for me because it was such a big shift from one book (hell, even one episode) to the next that you never really expect things will come together.

It's what's so frustrating about Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons for me; the series promised this super tight, intertwined story and established stakes so well, then up and shoved those aside in order to introduce entirely new knots and new stakes. Sort of squandered the investment from the first three books. The way ASOIAF feels so aimless right now makes me worried because I still care a lot about Howland Reed and the Starks and all kind of first three books threads and I care so little about Dorne and Meereen. Is there going to be a Howland Reed pay off? Or did I spend days on days reading and digging and cross referencing forum posts and shit for no good reason. It's weird when you care about a thing more than you think its creator does--which is probably why so many people in this thread get frustrated by the TV show I expect.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Actually Harry Potter was not super detailed from the beginning. The later books' focus on horcuxes and a variety of things that Rowling didn't plan initially. In contrast Martin can point to a lot of his main focuses all the way back to the first two books - from the Others to Aegon Jon's parents.

Arguably the most detailed fantasy series is The Book Of The New Sun. It's also kind of a case of cheating since Gene Wolf wrote the entire thing first, went back to add foreshadowing/clues/etc, then released the books to the public.

I like AFFC and ADWD a lot, but I agree that they bloated what was originally quite a streamlined story. ASOS sets up quite an interesting second act. The fall of the North, the end of the war, the queenship of Dany, etc. Plus some stories in between - Arya learning to be an assassin, Bran learning about the Others, etc. And yet two books have followed yet a whole lot of that stuff hasn't truly been resolved or advanced from a time perspective; Tywin hasn't been dead for that long.

I can't help but feel like the inflation of the Greyjoy plot especially was a mistake. I like Victarion and the Damphair's chapters but at the end of the day, wouldn't the overall story be better if Theon either died at the end of ACOK, joined the Nights Watch, or was tortured like in ADWD...but with whichever direction was chosen being the only Greyjoy related plot?

What purpose does Victarion truly serve, when Dany is going to have multiple means of getting back to Westeros with or without him? A big ass Volantese fleet is sailing to Meereen to attack, and is manned by slaves. Sounds like the perfect plot device to get her and her army to Westeros. So why do we need the Iron Fleet/Victarion.

That's where the gardening approach became an issue to me. Martin knows what Dany's end game is, whether she lives or dies, etc. But he has clearly struggled with how to get her to that position, and we still don't even know how he's going to do it. Will she willingly go with Victaron (or Euron...), will she travel to Valaryia, will she free Volantis, etc. And what role will Tyrion play in whatever her decision is.

 

[Satanic Saint]

I have read all the 5 books and the Dunk and Egg novellas. Is there any place where I can recap them since I have forgotten a lot of things which happened in the last 2 books.
Does The World of Ice and Fire cover those events. I bought it on Kindle but I haven't read it yet.
Also are there any more novellas or encyclopaedias or spinoff books?
Where can I read all the released Winds of Winter chapters?

 

[Bigby]

Where can I read all the released Winds of Winter chapters?

I believe you can read some chapters in the World of Ice and Fire app on Android or iOS.

Edit: Just checked, there are 5 chapters.

 

[Ratrat]

I have read all the 5 books and the Dunk and Egg novellas. Is there any place where I can recap them since I have forgotten a lot of things which happened in the last 2 books.
Does The World of Ice and Fire cover those events. I bought it on Kindle but I haven't read it yet.
Also are there any more novellas or encyclopaedias or spinoff books?
Where can I read all the released Winds of Winter chapters?

The World of Ice and Fire stops at Roberts reign and barely mentions Dunk.

Only other novellas are The Rogue Prince and The Princess and the Queen.

 

[Satanic Saint]

I believe you can read some chapters in the World of Ice and Fire app on Android or iOS.

Edit: Just checked, there are 5 chapters.

The World of Ice and Fire stops at Roberts reign and barely mentions Dunk.

Only other novellas are The Rogue Prince and The Princess and the Queen.

Thanks a lot. Is there any website or wiki which summarises the last 2 books properly. I remember the big events but the small details are a bit hazy.

 

[Brakke]

A Wiki of Ice and Fire is good for broad strokes. Tower of the Hand is more in depth. Like it has chapter-by-chapter synopses.

 

[Paganmoon]

When tWoW finally gets released, tower of the hand is a must. Going to be tough reading the book, when you remember all the crazy fan-theories better than the actual books.