I think he is suggesting if they do not know that makes it ok.
I do not get it either.
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A very good friend of mine is cheating on her husband and I don't know what to do...
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I think he is suggesting if they do not know that makes it ok.
I do not get it either.
Kano on the Phone
Member
So cheating and getting dick on the side is now a 'loving relationship'?
You can love someone and cheat on them. Not everything is so absolute.
I think he is suggesting if they do not know that makes it ok.
I do not get it either.
Under certain circumstances, yes, it is ok. Under other circumstances, it isn't.
I know, it's weird that not everything is black and white always.
I might've misinterpreted your post then
I apologize
It's cool.
You can love someone and cheat on them. Not everything is so absolute.
There's a reason it's calling cheating.
Cheating is not child rape. Cheating is not murder. Let's stop equating the two.
Who in the hell did that?
MarzipaNMOS
Member
nvm old reply
This is why I'm not friends with my coworkers.
So here's the thing, OP: Is telling the husband worth your job? Because that's what's on the line. You insert yourself in someone else's intimate business like that and it's a coworker you don't think she isn't gonna do everything she can to get you fired? You don't think the dude she's fucking who's ALSO a coworker wouldn't do the same?
Look, I understand the "do the right thing by the husband" talk on GAF. But in the real world there can be real consequences to doing that.
So think it through. Personally? Cheating isn't a crime and I"m not obligated to get involved. And I wouldn't. Because no matter what happens I'm gonna be the bad guy. To everyone involved. Including the husband. She'll tell him you're just jealous and have been trying to get in her panties. She'll lie. And he WILL believe it. He has to. You think he just gonna let his marriage be flipped upside down on your word?
Now consider your job. This is your paper, your bread, how you pay the bills. Can you AFFORD this type of complication? Can you risk it? I can't. I wouldn't let anything fuck with my ability to make my bread.
This right here? Great advice. It's so easy to live in idealistic principles when you're not considering the real world ramifications.
Kano on the Phone
Member
There's a reason it's calling cheating.
That would look great on a bumper sticker, but does nothing to refute the fact that you can love someone and have sex with someone else.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If you love someone you do not make it a habit to lie and go behind their back to sleep with other people. Whatever issues you have that make you want to go sleep with someone else should be talked about and attempted to be resolved. Their is literally zero reason for a grown mature adult to cheat on someone. All it is is cowardice and avoidance of dealing with someone's problems.You can love someone and cheat on them. Not everything is so absolute.
Under certain circumstances, yes, it is ok. Under other circumstances, it isn't.
I know, it's weird that not everything is black and white always.
It specifically says in the OP that he is leaving his job to go back to his home country. He doesn't have to worry about getting fired.This right here? Great advice. It's so easy to live in idealistic principles when you're not considering the real world ramifications.
A) Snitches get stiches. Not your place to tell.
B) I feel you though, that's gotta be tough. I'd say you're better off breaking off your relationship with the two of them (sounds like you have) than getting mixed up in their relationship with each other.
C)
That is called rape and it is a felony in most places.
B) I feel you though, that's gotta be tough. I'd say you're better off breaking off your relationship with the two of them (sounds like you have) than getting mixed up in their relationship with each other.
C)
Tell her if she doesn't do you too, you will tell on her.
That way everyone wins.
That is called rape and it is a felony in most places.
John Rabbit
Banned
this thread reeks of dysfunction.
Tell the husband anonymously. If my wife was cheating I would hope somebody would fucking tell me instead of "minding their own business".
agreed. As long as you are 100% certain.. otherwise... yikes.
It specifically says in the OP that he is leaving his job to go back to his home country. He doesn't have to worry about getting fired.
It wasn't so much in reference to the OP as everyone else arguing. More a general statement of advice given that people tend to boil these issues down to black and white.
Kano on the Phone
Member
If you love someone you do not make it a habit to lie and go behind their back to sleep with other people. Whatever issues you have that make you want to go sleep with someone else should be talked about and attempted to be resolved. Their is literally zero reason for a grown mature adult to cheat on someone. All it is is cowardice and avoidance of dealing with someone's problems.
Two people are in a 20 year relationship and have a couple of kids. Person 1 loses interest in sex, person 2 still very much has a sex drive. Person 1 isn't ok with an open relationship.
The options are
A) Person 2 condemned to never have sex again until person 1 dies.
or
B) Person 2 does what people here advocate and leaves, ending the 20 year relationship and splitting up the home.
or
C) Person 2 has an affair, discreetly and on the side, never letting Person 1 find out and still being a loving partner and keeping the family together.
You're really telling me that you think B is the best of these three options?
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Could never be with someone that broke trust, I dont care if we were coming in on our 50 year anniversary and I found out at the party.
"Oh, its OK, I trust you......till the next time.." Fuck. That.
I'd be more pissed that I wasted a lifetime on some harlot.
"Oh, its OK, I trust you......till the next time.." Fuck. That.
I'd be more pissed that I wasted a lifetime on some harlot.
Here is why I am in the "Mind your own business" camp:
There are essentially two possible outcomes from you not telling the husband.
Outcome A: The husband never finds out
In this case the husband is spared the feelings of shame and betrayal as are the couple's children. Maybe the wife stops cheating and they live a normal, happy life.
Outcome B: The husband finds out on his own
How different is this than the case were you tell the husband? It's tough to know if it is better or worse. Maybe it's better for you to tell because he would find out sooner. Maybe it's worse for you to tell, because his feelings of shame are magnified by having a third-party involved in something he would prefer to deal with privately. You can come up with just as many hypothetical situations where it is worse to find out from a third-party than it is to find out on your own.
From my perspective, absent extenuating circumstances, it seems to me that the husband and kids have a better chance at happiness if you don't tell. However, by not telling, there is a lower chance that the cheater will be punished for her actions. It's also worth considering that this is based on the idea that you are right about the cheating. There is still a small chance that you are wrong, in which case telling the husband would only cause unnecessary misery.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether you are more concerned about the happiness of the victims or of punishment for the cheater. If the victims are your top priority, don't tell. If punishment of cheating is your top priority, then tell. I personally lean more towards happiness of the victims, but I understand why others may care more about punishment of the cheater. It's basically just another example of the classic duel between utilitarian and duty-based ethical systems.
There are essentially two possible outcomes from you not telling the husband.
Outcome A: The husband never finds out
In this case the husband is spared the feelings of shame and betrayal as are the couple's children. Maybe the wife stops cheating and they live a normal, happy life.
Outcome B: The husband finds out on his own
How different is this than the case were you tell the husband? It's tough to know if it is better or worse. Maybe it's better for you to tell because he would find out sooner. Maybe it's worse for you to tell, because his feelings of shame are magnified by having a third-party involved in something he would prefer to deal with privately. You can come up with just as many hypothetical situations where it is worse to find out from a third-party than it is to find out on your own.
From my perspective, absent extenuating circumstances, it seems to me that the husband and kids have a better chance at happiness if you don't tell. However, by not telling, there is a lower chance that the cheater will be punished for her actions. It's also worth considering that this is based on the idea that you are right about the cheating. There is still a small chance that you are wrong, in which case telling the husband would only cause unnecessary misery.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether you are more concerned about the happiness of the victims or of punishment for the cheater. If the victims are your top priority, don't tell. If punishment of cheating is your top priority, then tell. I personally lean more towards happiness of the victims, but I understand why others may care more about punishment of the cheater. It's basically just another example of the classic duel between utilitarian and duty-based ethical systems.
Two people are in a 20 year relationship and have a couple of kids. Person 1 loses interest in sex, person 2 still very much has a sex drive. Person 1 isn't ok with an open relationship.
The options are
A) Person 2 condemned to never have sex again until person 1 dies.
or
B) Person 2 does what people here advocate and leaves, ending the 20 year relationship and splitting up the home.
or
C) Person 2 has an affair, discreetly and on the side, never letting Person 1 find out and still being a loving partner and keeping the family together.
You're really telling me that you think B is the best of these three options?
Or Option Duh) Talk to the other person about it, and see other people who can help your relationship. Relationship counselors and junk.
That would look great on a bumper sticker, but does nothing to refute the fact that you can love someone and have sex with someone else.
Yeah, it's called an open relationship.
Not cheating.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether you are more concerned about the happiness of the victims or of punishment for the cheater. If the victims are your top priority, don't tell. If punishment of cheating is your top priority, then tell. I personally lean more towards happiness of the victims, but I understand why others may care more about punishment of the cheater. It's basically just another example of the classic duel between utilitarian and duty-based ethical systems.
Some people may not like living in lies.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Absolutely. You're only thinking of the perspective of the person who still wants sex. The other person is damned to sit at home and either know that his wife needs to go somewhere else to be happy or be lied to for the rest of his life.Two people are in a 20 year relationship and have a couple of kids. Person 1 loses interest in sex, person 2 still very much has a sex drive. Person 1 isn't ok with an open relationship.
The options are
A) Person 2 condemned to never have sex again until person 1 dies.
or
B) Person 2 does what people here advocate and leaves, ending the 20 year relationship and splitting up the home.
or
C) Person 2 has an affair, discreetly and on the side, never letting Person 1 find out and still being a loving partner and keeping the family together.
You're really telling me that you think B is the best of these three options?
Option B allows no bullshit. Divorce is absolutely a more healthy situation then raising kids in a house full of lies and deception because no one has the balls to tell the truth and let everyone else move on with their lives and build happier healthier relationships.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Or Option Duh) Talk to the other person about it, and see other people who can help your relationship. Relationship counselors and junk.
They did that. As I said, Person 1 has no interest in sex and no interest in an open relationship.
Absolutely. You're only thinking of the perspective of the person who still wants sex. The other person is damned to sit at home and either know that his wife needs to go somewhere else to be happy or be lied to for the rest of his life.
Option B allows no bullshit. Divorce is absolutely a more healthy situation then raising kids in a house full of lies and deception because no one has the balls to tell the truth and let everyone else move on with their lives and build happier healthier relationships.
A house of lies because of some sex on the side? Is sex that much more important than love? I feel like this is an insanely hyperbolic position to take.
They did that. As I said, Person 1 has no interest in sex and no interest in an open relationship.
They could divorce. People get divorced all the time and on a base level still each other, or at least separated. If there isnt any bad blood between them and explain to possible children what the deal is, what is the issue here.
But wouldn't that analogy imply you know for certain that the husband doesn't want to know?
Or did I read too much into it?
It is a subjective thing for sure but not sure there's much middle ground
That's what I mean by "context matters." Some people are fine with X, others aren't. It would depend on the husband's disposition here.
They did that. As I said, Person 1 has no interest in sex and no interest in an open relationship.
It's almost like you're really bad at getting to the conclusion point of a situation.
Which isn't surprising now that I think about it.
A house of lies because of some sex on the side? Is sex that much more important than love? I feel like this is an insanely hyperbolic position to take.
If sex is so blaze, then why hide it?
Kano on the Phone
Member
They could divorce. People get divorced all the time and on a base level still each other, or at least separated. If there isnt any bad blood between them and explain to possible children what the deal is, what is the issue here.
The issue is ending a 20 year relationship that might be good and fulfilling in every way except sexually.
Sex > a shared love and history, essentially.
It's almost like you're really bad at getting to the conclusion point of a situation.
Which isn't surprising now that I think about it.
I'm being rational about it, I think you're too emotional to really discuss this. I don't know if something has happened to you recently or if you're just really scared of being cheated on, but being condescending isn't necessary.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If the guy isn't comfortable with another guy plowing his wife the shared love is going to quickly dissolve when he finds out and grows resentful and hateful of her for lying and going behind his back.The issue is ending a 20 year relationship that might be good and fulfilling in every way except sexually.
Sex > a shared love and history, essentially.
Essentially you're saying Lies > The Truth as long as no one finds out you're lying.
If someone is so dissatisfied with a part of their relationship that they feel the need to sneak around to get fulfilled then it's better to end the relationship and have both people find someone that they are more compatible with at that point in their lives.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
I would say the broken trust would destroy the whatever length marriage it was. I'd divorce a woman even with kids, And later on when they are old enough, tell them why (besides the "mommy and daddy don't love each other anymore" speech).
Some people may not like living in lies.
I'm sure no one does. But as I stated, the two options are that the husband never finds out (i.e. never knows he was living a lie) or he finds out on his own (in which case he stops).
The distasteful part of this is not that the husband is somehow suffering by "living a lie" if he never finds out. The distasteful part is that the cheater is never punished, which seems unjust.
A house of lies because of some sex on the side? Is sex that much more important than love? I feel like this is an insanely hyperbolic position to take.
Sex is part of love for many people, and understandably so, given how it is the primary method of reproduction for our species and also one of the primary methods of disease transmission (making it a potentially dangerous activity that requires trust).
This is, of course, another contextual concern; if (for example) the husband and wife are in an open relationship, then that changes the calculus here.
Kano on the Phone
Member
If the guy isn't comfortable with another guy plowing his wife the shared love is going to quickly dissolve when he finds out and grows resentful and hateful of her for lying and going behind his back.
Essentially you're saying Lies > The Truth as long as no one finds out you're lying.
Not always, no, don't be so polarized. There is context in every situation, and saying "another guy plowing his wife" really makes it sound more like it's an issue of control than anything.
The issue is ending a 20 year relationship that might be good and fulfilling in every way except sexually.
Sex > a shared love and history, essentially.
I'm being rational about it.
You're not being rational at all.
You can't say sex is unimportant, and then in the next breath say that it's okay to lie about it, rational people don't lie about unimportant shit.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If a man is not going to get angry at his wife sleeping with someone else then there's no reason for the wife to not be honest and tell the husband what's going on. It's not cheating if the partner knows and doesn't care, its an open relationship and a completely different situation.Not always, no, don't be so polarized. There is context in every situation, and saying "another guy plowing his wife" really makes it sound more like it's an issue of control than anything.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Sex is part of love for many people, and understandably so, given how it is the primary method of reproduction for our species and also one of the primary methods of disease transmission.
This is, of course, another contextual concern; if (for example) the husband and wife are in an open relationship, then that changes the calculus here.
Naturally, but there's also people who think flirting is part of love and that no one who loves someone else should flirt with anyone else, even though that's obviously ridiculous. All I'm arguing is that there are grey areas and that the "cheating is always, always wrong" position is just too absolute to be rational. I personally don't feel like sex is always something that should be valued over every other part of a relationship.
You're not being rational at all.
You can't say sex is unimportant, and then in the next breath say that it's okay to lie about it, rational people don't lie about unimportant shit..
People lie by omission all the time. If a woman smiles at me and it makes me feel good because things aren't great at home, I don't immediately tell my girlfriend just because I'm the George Washington of human affection.
If a man is not going to get angry at his wife sleeping with someone else then there's no reason for the wife to not be honest and tell the husband what's going on. It's not cheating if the partner knows and doesn't care, its an open relationship and a completely different situation.
You keep making this sound like a property thing, you're losing me. If this is about ownership then we aren't having the same conversation.
I'm being rational about it, I think you're too emotional to really discuss this. I don't know if something has happened to you recently or if you're just really scared of being cheated on, but being condescending isn't necessary.
Unfortunately relationships aren't rational, they're emotional. You can't expect shit to work out just because "it's the most rational course of action".
OP, life is hard enough without takin on other peoples issues.
Let her fuck her own life up. Stay out of it. End of the day, shes a work collegue, not a friend and not family.
OP explicitly refers to her as a good friend and he shares Thanksgiving and Christmas with them both so.
On more reflection, if you're not going to stay out of it, the right play should be to talk to her. Don't threaten her obviously, but if you're upset about it talk to her and encourage her to come clean. You actually already have a safe way into figuring out things like maybe the husband knows or maybe their relationship has gone sour or maybe the sex is done/bad/whatever.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Unfortunately relationships aren't rational, they're emotional. You can't expect shit to work out just because "it's the most rational course of action".
I don't think kaepernickehs and I are in a relationship, although it would explain his really emotional responses to me saying that cheating is sometimes ok.
Naturally, but there's also people who think flirting is part of love and that no one who loves someone else should flirt with anyone else, even though that's obviously ridiculous. All I'm arguing is that there are grey areas and that the "cheating is always, always wrong" position is just too absolute to be rational. I personally don't feel like sex is always something that should be valued over every other part of a relationship..
I agree, extremes are almost always bad. At least for me, the transgression here isn't really sex specifically; it's trust and honesty. There are lots of ways for a husband or wife to lie in serious ways. Sex can be one of those ways, but that's merely incidental.
Although sex can indeed be a transgression in and of itself; if the wife were to come home with an STD, for example, that would be a serious concern.
Kano on the Phone
Member
I agree, extremes are almost always bad. At least for me, the transgression here isn't really sex specifically; it's trust and honesty. There are lots of ways for a husband or wife to lie in serious ways. Sex can be one of those ways, but that's merely incidental.
Although sex can indeed be a transgression in and of itself; if the wife were to come home with an STD, for example, that would be a serious concern.
Of course, and I think implied in having a discreet affair is keeping your partner safe. I'm not even saying that cheating is always ok or mostly ok, just that there are circumstances where cheating is better than the alternative.
Hmm?Hell yea.
Everyone got mad at the whole Penn State debacle. WHY?
Because people said "it's not business" and turned a blind eye.
Same concept here.
The truth should be told to the husband.
Forget this nonsense "it's not my business crap"
That is something a coward would say/do.
Rape is equivalent to an affair? This is not even close to the same thing.
This part
But I won't suggest you anything, as I don't know how I would react in the same situation as you. All I know is that, if my wife was cheating on me, I would like to know it, even if it's coming from a stranger's mouth.
make me really want you to tell her husband about her affair è_éTwo weeks back, she actually missed her daughter's cheering practice and her Son's football game so she could continue this after another work happy hour.
But I won't suggest you anything, as I don't know how I would react in the same situation as you. All I know is that, if my wife was cheating on me, I would like to know it, even if it's coming from a stranger's mouth.
I don't think kaepernickehs and I are in a relationship, although it would explain his really emotional responses to me saying that cheating is sometimes ok.
Hahahaha I guess I misunderstood, sorry.
My point still stands though. Even if it's the best option rationally to discreetly have a fuckbuddy on the side (to put it this way), I don't think you can just assume it'll work out. Sometimes it's just better to split up amicably than risk a relationship (or marriage) ending in hatred. Granted, a bit extreme, but you get my point.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Unless you have actual, physical proof, and you are better friends with the husband than you are with her, you should stay the hell away from this. The only thing that's realistically going to happen if you bring this news to him directly or anonymously is that it will be your word against two others who have a good reason to smear you as a lying busybody who is unaccustomed to western platonic friendships.
Especially if you go off on a tangent about lies being spread about you in the office, of which you also have no proof. If you really care, talk to her about it. Not in an accusatory way, just explain that it hurts you to lie to her friends and family and that it hurts that she would carry on so nonchalantly in front of you, knowing that it made you uncomfortable. Don't threaten. If she's not compelled to end it (either with the new guy or her husband) after that, you did your part and you should have a clear conscience.
Especially if you go off on a tangent about lies being spread about you in the office, of which you also have no proof. If you really care, talk to her about it. Not in an accusatory way, just explain that it hurts you to lie to her friends and family and that it hurts that she would carry on so nonchalantly in front of you, knowing that it made you uncomfortable. Don't threaten. If she's not compelled to end it (either with the new guy or her husband) after that, you did your part and you should have a clear conscience.
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