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[not psycho]

Ludicrously unacceptable behavior by the cop. Plainclothes? Check. Gun? Check. Unmarked car? Check. 3:15 am? Check. All set to drive around randomly looking for laws to enforce!

No. You go home and if you see something that needs investigating you call it in.

We can never, and will never, know what happened. No video, no witnesses. The police statement gives few details, and they can lie as much as they want with nobody to contradict them, but even their statement suggests the cop did not identify himself immediately. It suggests he thought nobody was there (abandoned car), which is exactly why you don't do what the cop did in plainclothes and an unmarked car.

Nothing we can do though. No video, no witnesses. The cop may have shot him out of pure shock at seeing a legally armed Black man (assuming he was really armed) when he thought it was an abandoned car at 3:15am. But they can always change the story from "confrontation" (which does not imply even having a weapon in hand, let alone threatening with it) to "he aimed the gun and said he would close his eyes and count to 3, then shoot me." Nothing we can do, maybe next time though.

 

[darkinstinct]

We can't automatically take his word because he is a cop, either. But that's what normally happens.

Of course we can. You are innocent until your guilt is proven, it doesn't work the other way around.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I think it's all too easy to take the side of seemingly obvious truths in the world, what about those that are hidden in what seems to be guilt? who protects those unfortunate people?

Obviously not cops like these.

Even at the best scenario it was his negligence that created a misunderstanding that caused the possible confrontation. At worst... well, I wouldn't be surprised either.

Of course we can. You are innocent until your guilt is proven, it doesn't work the other way around.

Pity that couldn't work for the victim.

 

[Siegcram]

Of course we can. You are innocent until your guilt is proven, it doesn't work the other way around.

It doesn't work like that period outside of a court room.

 

[Big Baybee]

Of course we can. You are innocent until your guilt is proven, it doesn't work the other way around.

Riiiiiight

 

[YoungHav]

I agree that the officer being in plain clothes and an unmarked vehicle works against him. Just saying that the deceased being armed weighs in the officers favour a little.

Sadly, the officer wouldn't even have to rely on the gun as evidence. With no camera or dashboard he could have used the classic "black guy lunged at me" and see no charges.

We're some lungey, chargey motherfuckers.

 

[Amentallica]

Or perhaps the drummer was a sowjet vampire spy and about to suck the cop dry to keep him from discovering the stolen nuclear missile plans. The thing is, that I rather give the innocent drummer who was waiting for help the benefit of a doubt than the member of a organisation with a history of killing and injuring innocent black people in differing levels of racism.

Fact is: the drummer wasn't doing anything criminal and now he is dead. Shot by the cop. There is something very very wrong in this chain of thousands and thousands of isolated incidents.

Any officier in america is constabtly on edge because everyone could have a gun thanks to the wretched laws there. It doean't matter if the drummer had a gun, a banana or nothing in the hand, really.

Of course it does matter, what are you talking about. Even if it is the norm in some places, I don't think an officer is going to immediately expect to see a weapon and be calm about it. It's a startling thing to see and you probably assume the worst.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

wow being from the UK you guys really don't seem have much faith in your police force do you, I'm not going to defend the Cop but anything could of happened, perhaps he did introduce himself but due to being in plain clothes Mr Jones may of thought it was just a ploy or scam to rob him, maybe he had a bad day, you can't really know who's fault it was 100 percent unfortunately.

If the cop never shot him, he's be alive with a fixed car. How is that debatable over where the fault lies?

This is not a situation where the cop pulled him over or was questioning, he snuck on a man and then "instinctively" shot him to death. How is that in any way an acceptable interaction?

Of course it does matter, what are you talking about. Even if it is the norm in some places, I don't think an officer is going to immediately expect to see a weapon and be calm about it. It's a startling thing to see and you probably assume the worst.

Open carry advocates get away with it all the time. The lesson repeatedly seems to be that the right to bear arms doesn't apply to everyone, and that if confronted by armed police, your life is forfeit if you so much as sneeze in their general direction.

 

[Coriolanus]

Wonder how the headlines would be if he had reacted and killed the plainsclothes officer when he saw the man approaching with a gun.

Also wonder if he would be free.

/s

 

[theignoramus]

Alright there, calm down kid.

Hypocrital remark,given your own record of posts dripping with hysteria.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Not believing a word of any of these reports since they are all from the cop's perspective.

For all I know, he took the gun out the glove compartment and put it on the ground.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Well him having a gun does explain the officer's side a little more.

Not really.

 

[Shadownet]

Hypocrital remark,given your own record of posts dripping with hysteria.

Missed the point there ignoramus.

 

[Darkangel]

Sounds like straight up murder.

Why would the drummer even be armed? Maybe he thought the non-uniformed cop was a guy looking to jump him or something.

 

[XOMTOR]

I understand the rationale, but I am completely against plain-clothes officers/vehicles. How the fuck am I supposed to tell that this unmarked car that just pulled up to me with a plain-clothes guy wielding a gun is actually police. I think most people will notice a gun before they notice a police badge. Beyond that, I don't want to take their word that they are a cop when they yell "police". Who's to say they aren't some serial killer or psychopath just doing that to get another helpless victim.

IMO, plain-clothes officers should only be allowed to go undercover and should only be able to use force if they come across a legitimate threat to their life DURING THEIR CASE. They should not be allowed to make traffic stops or routine law enforcement in plain clothes.

I thought this was already the case; traffic incidents could only be investigated by uniformed officers in marked cars with lights?

 

[outunderthestars]

Why on Earth would a plainsclothed officer be investigating and abandoned car? Radio for a patrol car!

I normally find some sympathy with police in most situations, but this is absurdly fucked up.

 

[3rdman]

Sounds like straight up murder.

Why would the drummer even be armed? Maybe he thought the non-uniformed cop was a guy looking to jump him or something.

I think "murder" is far too strong a sentiment when the guy that was killed was in fact armed. From my understanding the cop was working in plains clothes on a robbery and likely approached the car believing it to be related to his case. The drummer seeing some random guy with a gun approach his car thought the worst and pulled his gun for protection. Here is where the cop's advanced training kicked in and he fired in self-defense.

This version of the story assumes the best in everyone involved and makes this a sad affair all around. If this version of the story holds true, it's also extremely ironic that the victim bought a gun to protect himself but owning it is what lead directly to his death and lends credence to the statistic that owning a gun makes it far more likely that you could die from a bullet.

 

[Omega]

wow being from the UK you guys really don't seem have much faith in your police force do you, I'm not going to defend the Cop but anything could of happened, perhaps he did introduce himself but due to being in plain clothes Mr Jones may of thought it was just a ploy or scam to rob him, maybe he had a bad day, you can't really know who's fault it was 100 percent unfortunately.

This isn't the first time this has happened. Hell, it most likely wasn't even the first police shooting of that day. Also "maybe he had a bad day" is not a reason to shoot someone.

"i'm not going to defend the cop but I'm gonna defend the cop"

oh. and it's could've, a contraction of could have

literally everything about your post is pure shit

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If that someone had a gun drawn as they approached the car? Probably.

And if that someone isn't in a marked police vehicle I assume he's a regular dude.

Problem is plainclothes cops rarely identify themselves. And even then anyone can utter the phrase "I'm a cop". There's a fucking reason they have uniforms.

 

[Kevtones]

So needless.


Reads like murder.


Rest in peace.

 

[Captin Quacker]

I think "murder" is far too strong a sentiment when the guy that was killed was in fact armed. From my understanding the cop was working in plains clothes on a robbery and likely approached the car believing it to be related to his case. The drummer seeing some random guy with a gun approach his car thought the worst and pulled his gun for protection. Here is where the cop's advanced training kicked in and he fired in self-defense.

This version of the story assumes the best in everyone involved and makes this a sad affair all around. If this version of the story holds true, it's also extremely ironic that the victim bought a gun to protect himself but owning it is what lead directly to his death and lends credence to the statistic that owning a gun makes it far more likely that you could die from a bullet.

Quite a tall tail you've spun

 

[Ovid]

Of course we can. You are innocent until your guilt is proven, it doesn't work the other way around.

Lol, what?

 

[spookyfish]

Why on Earth would a plainsclothed officer be investigating and abandoned car? Radio for a patrol car!

I normally find some sympathy with police in most situations, but this is absurdly fucked up.

This.

I think "murder" is far too strong a sentiment when the guy that was killed was in fact armed. From my understanding the cop was working in plains clothes on a robbery and likely approached the car believing it to be related to his case. The drummer seeing some random guy with a gun approach his car thought the worst and pulled his gun for protection. Here is where the cop's advanced training kicked in and he fired in self-defense.

This version of the story assumes the best in everyone involved and makes this a sad affair all around. If this version of the story holds true, it's also extremely ironic that the victim bought a gun to protect himself but owning it is what lead directly to his death and lends credence to the statistic that owning a gun makes it far more likely that you could die from a bullet.

Wow. Is this like the Missouri police officer who wasn't investigating the strong-arm robbery, according to the chief of police right after the Michael Brown incident, but then all of a sudden WAS investigating the robbery, when that narrative worked better?

 

[hobblygobbly]

To be fair the US has nearly 5 times the population of the UK... BUT that being said yeah it's becoming fucking crazy. Like holy shit 1108 people ALONE were killed in 2014 by police and I almost fear the number will rise past that for 2015 at this rate. Like I at this point, I feel like police not able to carry guns unless being called out of the station to a crisis that involves someone with a gun is the only way to fix this. Cause it's becoming clear that having cops have guns on their person at all times is something they can't handle.

Not to mention that cops that do this kind of shit need to be fucking fired and banned for ever having a gun. Hell at this point I know this may sound like tinfoil conspiracy.. but... I almost wonder if Republicans want more guns so to then justify more cops killing people.

Still, if you look at even bullets fired, Germany (pop. 80m) only fired 85 bullets in 2011, half of which were warning shots not even directed at people. There is a fundamental problem of racism in the U.S police force AND inadequate training. Germany has a population of 80 million. Hell, if you compare the entire EU nations and their police forces it's still substantially less than the U.S and the EU as a whole is more populous than the U.S, the police statistics throughout most of the EU is relatively similar.

According to Germany's Der Spiegel, German police shot only 85 bullets in all of 2011, a stark reminder that not every country is as gun-crazy as the U.S. of A. As Boing Boing translates, most of those shots weren't even aimed anyone: "49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects. 15 persons were injured, 6 were killed."

English source: http://www.thewire.com/global/2012/05/german-police-used-only-85-bullets-against-people-2011/52162/

Original: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/polizei-schoss-2011-seltener-im-dienst-a-832037.html

 

[lowrider007]

This is not a situation where the cop pulled him over or was questioning, he snuck on a man and then "instinctively" shot him to death. How is that in any way an acceptable interaction?

Is that what actually happened was it? , Personally I wasn't there so I don't know.

This isn't the first time this has happened. Hell, it most likely wasn't even the first police shooting of that day. Also "maybe he had a bad day" is not a reason to shoot someone.

"i'm not going to defend the cop but I'm gonna defend the cop"

oh. and it's could've, a contraction of could have

literally everything about your post is pure shit

Criticizing someones literary skills, always a very clever way to win an argument, very polite aren't you.

And also when I said "maybe he had a bad day", I think it was obvious I was referring to Mr Jones, maybe he took offense to the off duty officer 'checking up' on him and waved his gun about, like I said you just don't know, I wasn't trying to defend the Cop, I was just putting a different spin on it rather than the obvious "cop is a murderer" stance many people have chosen to take.

 

[DietRob]

I hope this chickenshit cop gets sued for everything in his pitiful life.

 

[SummitAve]

If the cop never shot him, he's be alive with a fixed car. How is that debatable over where the fault lies?

This is not a situation where the cop pulled him over or was questioning, he snuck on a man and then "instinctively" shot him to death. How is that in any way an acceptable interaction?

There are only two people who actually know what happened, one of them is dead, and you are not the other person. How can you suggest anything with so few detail and facts?

 

[Crimson_Fate]

How. How does it count for the cop. I am not a friend of the whole US gun issue, but it's legal to carry guns. And being alone in the darkest night with some shadowman approaching that isn't the help ordered it makes sense to be on defense.

The problem is not carrying the gun it is drawing it. You are not suppose to draw your weapon unless you are in fear for your life. Someone walking up to your car in the middle of the night is not a justifiable reason to pull your weapon. Add in an officer who is trained to react to a pulled weapon and its a recipe for disaster.

 

[lowrider007]

The problem is not carrying the gun it is drawing it. You are not suppose to draw your weapon unless you are in fear for your life. Someone walking up to your car in the middle of the night is not a justifiable reason to pull your weapon. Add in an officer who is trained to react to a pulled weapon and its a recipe for disaster.

Exactly.

The justification to pull your gun out on here just because someone is approaching you at 'night time' is ridiculous, so what, if that happened here it just be "ello mate can I help you?" not pulling my glock out in fear for my life, imo if Mr Jones got out with his gun in his hand he was in the wrong, that combined with a cops training isn't going to end well.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I hope this chickenshit cop gets sued for everything in his pitiful life.

Not likely. Even worse, folks will be on his side by default, even if he's in plain clothes creeping on a person on the side of the road. He is justified in his fear..stops right there.

 

[Walpurgis]

Exactly.

The justification to pull your gun out on here just because someone is approaching you at 'night time' is ridiculous, so what, if that happened here it just be "ello mate can I help you?" not pulling my glock out in fear for my life, imo if Mr Jones got out with his gun in his hand he was in the wrong, that combined with a cops training isn't going to end well.

Then why even carry a gun around? What's the point?

 

[rokkerkory]

Disgusting pos of a person

 

[Omega]

The problem is not carrying the gun it is drawing it. You are not suppose to draw your weapon unless you are in fear for your life. Someone walking up to your car in the middle of the night is not a justifiable reason to pull your weapon. Add in an officer who is trained to react to a pulled weapon and its a recipe for disaster.

so basically no one is allowed to fear for their life except cops

because i'm not sure how a complete stranger walking up to your car at 3am is somehow not a legitimate reason to fear for your life.

 

[mnannola]

I feel so bad for this guy and I identify with him being a drummer.

What the hell do you expect someone to do when sitting in a broken down car at 3 AM and some random stranger comes up walking with their gun?

If I had a gun on me and someone approached me at 3AM with their gun, you best believe I am going to get my gun out as well and be ready for a confrontation.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

He had a gun, LEGALLY, bought it 3 days earlier.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ally-three-days-earlier-when-shot-by-officer/

“It’s causing reckless inferences about our officer’s conduct,” John Kazanjian, president of the Palm Beach County Police Benevolent Association told the Sun-Sentinel on Tuesday. “Whether it’s good or bad, they need to be more transparent.”

This is true. I know they have to investigate but we need a quicker timeline. They often use delays to help themselves and it hurts the perception.

More video, quicker release and things would be slightly better. That's just one angle that is infuriating.

 

[theignoramus]

Missed the point there ignoramus.

I dont think any point on social issues you have to discuss has a shred of credibility, given your very recent post history

 

[Shadownet]

I dont think any point on social issues you have to discuss has a shred of credibility, given your very recent post history

Lol okay, and I guess you're more qualified. You don't know anything about me and here you are judging my credibility.

 

[theignoramus]

Lol okay, and I guess you're more qualified. You don't know anything about me and here you are judging my credibility.

I saw your horrendous dog whistle thread about roving gangs of inner city youth attacking random people and the disingenuous attempt to compare media coverage of that disparate hooligan behaviour to media coverage of dubious actions from law enforcement.
I may not know much about you but I know anyone who would create such a thread should be viewed with a cynical eye, long thereafter.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I saw your horrendous dog whistle thread about roving gangs of inner city youth attacking random people and the disingenuous attempt to compare media coverage of that disparate hooligan behaviour to media coverage of dubious actions from law enforcement.
I may not know much about you but I know anyone who would create such a thread should be viewed with a cynical eye, long thereafter.

Some good gifs in that thread tho

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1092978&highlight=knockout

 

[Shadownet]

I saw your horrendous dog whistle thread about roving gangs of inner city youth attacking random people and the disingenuous attempt to compare media coverage of that disparate hooligan behaviour to media coverage of dubious actions from law enforcement.
I may not know much about you but I know anyone who would create such a thread should be viewed with a cynical eye, long thereafter.

So I guess having today youth beating and even killing random people for fun wasn't alarming to you. Sure it happens far less than police killings, but let's just pretend its just kids being kids. It happen so far and few in between.

But hey, if you disagree with me or whatever. Feel free to ignore my posts. I wouldn't lose sleep over some random internet guy.

 

[morningbus]

Jesus Christ you learned nothing from your knockout game thread.

 

[minx]

what may be a drumstick in the hands of a regular person, in the hands of a black person it can become any weapon ranging from a knife, to a katana and even advanced black people can turn them into guns, but that takes years of training.

how was the cop supposed to know if he was dealing with someone experienced in the black arts?

"That crowbar looks like a gun!"

*unloads clip*

FFS.

Any american cops in here? Tell me the truth, when you get your badge and think you're going to be a good cop, do they then drag you into a room with a bag on your head and say that if you don't kill black people here and there they'll kill your family or something?

If the police really have to shoot, can't they just shoot the suspect in the legs or arms - just to disarm the person but not outright kill him or her?

Like I at this point, I feel like police not able to carry guns unless being called out of the station to a crisis that involves someone with a gun is the only way to fix this. Cause it's becoming clear that having cops have guns on their person at all times is something they can't handle.

I know this may sound like tinfoil conspiracy.. but... I almost wonder if Republicans want more guns so to then justify more cops killing people.

Par for the course on neogaf.

Appears to be an unfortunate incident that occurred in which a new gun owner brandished his weapon at someone approaching his vehicle. Hopefully his unmarked car has a dash cam that will be released.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Par for the course on neogaf.

Appears to be an unfortunate incident that occurred in which a new gun owner brandished his weapon at someone approaching his vehicle. Hopefully his unmarked car has a dash cam that will be released.

"unfortunate"

Since the cop shot him dead, it sounds like he approached the vehicle with his weapon drawn

 

[PopeReal]

Par for the course on neogaf.

Appears to be an unfortunate incident that occurred in which a new gun owner brandished his weapon at someone approaching his vehicle. Hopefully his unmarked car has a dash cam that will be released.

Lol look who it is. So shocking to see your stance.

How unfortunate indeed.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Par for the course on neogaf.

Appears to be an unfortunate incident that occurred in which a new gun owner brandished his weapon at someone approaching his vehicle. Hopefully his unmarked car has a dash cam that will be released.

Par for the course for minx.

 

[GaimeGuy]

minx, if he was rash in brandishing his gun, I ask you - how did the police get a shot off when he had a gun being pointed at him?

I'll tell you how - he already had his weapon out. The civilian drew his weapon because he saw an armed man approaching his vehicle.

 

[minx]

minx, if he was rash in brandishing his gun, I ask you - how did the police get a shot off when he had a gun being pointed at him?

I'll tell you how - he already had his weapon out. The civilian drew his weapon because he saw an armed man approaching his vehicle.

Well you seem to be the expert. Almost sounds like you were there. It would be strange for a plain clothed officer to have his firearm out approaching an abandoned vehicle. But is it possible.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Well you seem to be the expert. Almost sounds like you were there. It would be strange for a plain clothed officer to have his firearm out approaching an abandoned vehicle. But is it possible.

Do you honestly believe someone pointed a gun at a stranger approaching their vehicle, then waited as that stranger drew their own weapon and shot them dead?

 

[minx]

But in this case, the new gun owner had every right to brandish his weapon at a stranger coming up to him at 3am on the side of the road. Possible threat incoming? Of course you have your weapon out, especially when you're the one stranded.

I mean, it's possible someone is just trying to help, but more likely it's someone up to no good. In these situations, if you want to help.. you CALL THE POLICE, who will show up in clearly identified and marked cars and check the situation out.

No, that's not at all what a responsible gun owner does.

Do you honestly believe someone pointed a gun at a stranger approaching their vehicle, then waited as that stranger drew their own weapon and shot them dead?

There any many possible scenarios that could have occurred. I try to refrain from making assumptions as much as possible when I don't know the facts. I can only guess what happened based on my training and experience. He could have had the pistol at his side and the officer unholstered his weapon. The officer could have had it at his side approaching the vehicle. How the fuck am I supposed to know? This is why I hope there is video. Love that I get bombarded with "par for the course minx" when I have posted numerous times when an officer is clearly in the wrong.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

depressing