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[Kilrogg]

it's a quality over quantity debate tho

smb3 has more levels, powerups, variety in world design

smw is better overall

should smw have more levels and powerups to rival smb3? sure it'd be great. but what it has is already enough

I disagree. In fact, I was gonna argue that, if anything, SMW feels like it has the quantity. You say SMB3 has more levels, and I'll trust you on this, but they're also byte-sized compared to SMW's levels. SMB3 is a much denser package.

Regardless, both games feel comparable, and that's the whole point of this thread, really. We shouldn't be able to compare the two. It should be clear-cut: SMB3 crushed SMB1, and SMW should have crushed in SMB3 in every department, especially with the added power of the SNES. And when I say crush, I don't mean "it should have had more of everything", because, I agree with you: it's not just about quantity. I mean "it should have made SMB3 nearly obsolete entirely". Yet it didn't.

 

[ElFly]

The game encourages you to fly by throwing long stretches of flat land at you, Cape Feathers all over the place, and hiding Dragon Coins in the air in a few stages.

I don't think handing the player a new mechanic, telling them to use it, and encouraging them to use it, and then saying "but don't use it too much because it actually breaks the game" is good game design.

the player may decide to fly all over the stages and ignore everything or just fly sometimes and play on the ground as he wills

just because the game lets you play as you want does not mean the game is broken. the game does not force you to fly all over, just encourages it here and there and it gives you the cape as a new way to explore. SMB3 has a lot less of this freedom, while the raccoon tail still lets you fly -with more work, sure- over vast tracts of levels, but somehow SMW is below in your comparison

I disagree. In fact, I was gonna argue that, if anything, SMW feels like it has the quantity. You say SMB3 has more levels, and I'll trust you on this, but they're also byte-sized compared to SMW's levels. SMB3 is a much denser package.

Regardless, both games feel comparable, and that's the whole point of this thread, really. We shouldn't be able to compare the two. It should be clear-cut: SMB3 crushed SMB1, and SMW should have crushed in SMB3 in every department, especially with the added power of the SNES. And when I say crush, I don't mean "it should have had more of everything", because, I agree with you: it's not just about quantity. I mean "it should have made SMB3 nearly obsolete entirely". Yet it didn't.

I don't think this is a good argument. Mario 64 was not left obsolete by Sunshine, which was not left obsolete by either Galaxy, which was not left obsolete by 3D Land/World, which will probably not be left obsolete by Odyssey

Zelda 1 was not left obsolete by Zelda 2, which was not left obsolete by Zelda 3, which was not left obsolete by Ocarina, which was not left obsolete by Majora, which was not left obsolete by Wind Waker, which was not left obsolete by Twilight Princess which was not left obsolete by BotW

I can go on

but suddenly since SMW did not make SMB3 obsolete it is the lesser game in your opinion? that is super arbitrary and does not gel with how we treat other nintendo games, and several franchises in general

 

[balladofwindfishes]

the player may decide to fly all over the stages and ignore everything or just fly sometimes and play on the ground as he wills

just because the game lets you play as you want does not mean the game is broken. the game does not force you to fly all over, just encourages it here and there and it gives you the cape as a new way to explore

I don't think it should be the player's responsibility to balance the game like that.

 

[Raptomex]

Because it trivializes the difficulty for 90% of the stages. As long as it's not a cave level, you can basically just fly over the entire level.

Yes. But I want the freedom to fly. And they can just add obstacles and/or enemies in the sky.

 

[DrGrus]

Anyone saying that the NSMB games are easy should really go back and play the original NES marios. Because NSMB is not easier than the NES games.

SMB1 is a game that I still really like, but it is quite simple and I cannot say that NSMB DS is easier.

SMB3 becomes difficult on the later levels but I find NSMB Wii more difficult from the start.

All of them is good games and all of them has hard levels. So I do not understand the black and white view of the NSMB series.

 

[potatohead]

BRB going to print opening post and burn it irl

 

[Silvawuff]

Looking outside the technical aspects of the game itself, SMW was a time and place for a lot of people. It was a lot of early mornings munching on cereal while traversing Vanilla Dome or using Yoshi as a blood sacrifice to get to that higher platform. It was fighting your siblings for the controller or passing it off to them for the harder levels.

It was a style that elevated Mario from the rough pixel era to something a bit more polished. It was the new, it was the safe, it was the essence of something resplendent and unique for video games at the time. It's easy to look at older games and heavily criticize their art, graphics, level design, etc., but that will never change how people feel about them as they grow older and enter different periods of their lives.

I remember visiting Disneyland as an adult, that I visited many times as a little girl, and I said to my friend "Disneyland is smaller than I remember it." and he said "You're bigger than it remembers you." Youth keeps those rose-colored glasses on ... and that's okay imho.

 

[AuthenticM]

Let's put it this way: People rarely ever debate which is the more fleshed-out, better-realized and flat-out better game between SMB1 and SMB3. SMB1 is a great game, a seminal game, and thus iconic, but everyone agrees SMB3 is just so much more than SMB1. On the other hand, people often debate which of the two is best between SMB3 and SMW, despite the fact that SMW is a generation ahead.

That there's even a debate should tell you that maybe, just maybe, SMW could and should have been more, coming off SMB3.

Regardless, both games feel comparable, and that's the whole point of this thread, really. We shouldn't be able to compare the two. It should be clear-cut: SMB3 crushed SMB1, and SMW should have crushed in SMB3 in every department, especially with the added power of the SNES. And when I say crush, I don't mean "it should have had more of everything", because, I agree with you: it's not just about quantity. I mean "it should have made SMB3 nearly obsolete entirely". Yet it didn't.

That's actually a good point that, for some reason, had not crossed my mind.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Because it trivializes the difficulty for 90% of the stages. As long as it's not a cave level, you can basically just fly over the entire level.

Being able to skip 90% of the game through a couple secret exits trivialized the difficulty as well.

The cape is awesome. Yes, you can use it to cheese if you're good at it but not if you want to complete the game.

 

[klier]

NSMBU: worst art, best game. New Luigi U is Godlike.

 

[chaosblade]

NSMBU: worst art, best game. New Luigi U is Godlike.

I wouldn't say worst, it's definitely the best of the New series. It's just iterative and didn't do enough to separate itself so people complain that it's like an upressed NSMBW, which isn't the case.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I disagree. In fact, I was gonna argue that, if anything, SMW feels like it has the quantity. You say SMB3 has more levels, and I'll trust you on this, but they're also byte-sized compared to SMW's levels. SMB3 is a much denser package.

Regardless, both games feel comparable, and that's the whole point of this thread, really. We shouldn't be able to compare the two. It should be clear-cut: SMB3 crushed SMB1, and SMW should have crushed in SMB3 in every department, especially with the added power of the SNES. And when I say crush, I don't mean "it should have had more of everything", because, I agree with you: it's not just about quantity. I mean "it should have made SMB3 nearly obsolete entirely". Yet it didn't.

I mean, it's obvious that the levels have grown in size (for the most part) with each title:

But even as a kid, I remember it being disappointing that Butter Bridge only had like 2 levels. Forest of Illusion only had 3. (As a kid this was my perspective because this is the path I played the first time.

It also doesn't help that the biomes didn't have as much variety, so a lot of levels blended together.

Plus, Mario 3 had that crazy variety in it's own words. Like, sure you had 1-1, 2-5, 4-2, and whatever. but you also had 1-Fortress, 2-Pyramid, 3-Airship, 5-Tower, 7-Pirahna, 8-Tank, and 8-Random Grab Hand thing.

We traded those all in for yellow and red dots, big and small.

 

[ElFly]

I don't think it should be the player's responsibility to balance the game like that.

*shrug* it leaves more freedom to the player

I mean, you can skip like all the worlds in SMB3 by using the flute, and that does not even include manually flying over them, which still does take some skill, you just don't play them at all

and yet, nobody argues that "the flute trivializes world 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, since you can flute from world 1 to 8". the player is responsible too for not skipping the whole game after playing like 4 levels in world 1

 

[Classicblunder]

I prefer to rate games as they were released. On launch day, SMW was incredible. If you get into the practice of rating old games by modern standards, then all the classics, and your amazing memories of them, will become trash.

So yeah if aliens arrive and want to play the best 2D Mario today, it's probably NSMBU. But in terms of historical cultural impact, SMW destroys NSMBU. Where I was blown away by SMW as a kid, NSMBU felt like a cheap nostalgia cash in that I didn't even feel compelled to finish.

Mario 64 > SMB3 > SMB > SMW > Sunshine > SMW2:YI > Galaxy 1+2 > SMB2 > 3DL & 3DW > trash > NSMB series

Odyssey is going between SMW and Sunshine by the looks of it. It's not culture defining like the top 4 Mario games, but it will be really fun.

 

[Rezae]

I got SMB3 when it first released, and SMW when it first released.

I prefer SMB3. More power-ups, I enjoyed the level variety a bit more, it was more challenging, overworld obstacles, and the different worlds seemed larger in scope. My big peeve though was how horrible Mario's sprite looks compared to SMB2(US).

Both are great games though.

I found NSMBU to be forgettable. I wanted to like it more.

 

[Plinko]

I prefer to rate games as they were released. On launch day, SMW was incredible. If you get into the practice of rating old games by modern standards, then all the classics, and your amazing memories of them, will become trash.

So yeah if aliens arrive and want to play the best 2D Mario today, it's probably NSMBU. But in terms of historical cultural impact, SMW destroys NSMBU. Where I was blown away by SMW as a kid, NSMBU felt like a cheap nostalgia cash in that I didn't even feel compelled to finish.

Mario 64 > SMB3 > SMB > SMW > Sunshine > SMW2:YI > Galaxy 1+2 > SMB2 > 3DL & 3DW > trash > NSMB series

Odyssey is going between SMW and Sunshine by the looks of it. It's not culture defining like the top 4 Mario games, but it will be really fun.

Sunshine that high? Come on. That game is borderline unplayable in places.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

*shrug* it leaves more freedom to the player

I mean, you can skip like all the worlds in SMB3 by using the flute, and that does not even include manually flying over them, which still does take some skill, you just don't play them at all

and yet, nobody argues that "the flute trivializes world 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, since you can flute from world 1 to 8". the player is responsible too for not skipping the whole game after playing like 4 levels in world 1

Because the Flute is only found in specific places, is well hidden, and requires a powerup to get. The game doesn't encourage you to find them or use them, and the Flute isn't the only featured powerup in the game.

After the first world in SMW, you can get multiple feathers on pretty much every stage in the game.

Raccoon Mario is much better balanced. You have flight, but it's not infinite. The item is rarer than the feather. And there are other powerups to use to balance it out to make sure you aren't always Raccoon Mario by default.

 

[Sephzilla]

I've always maintained that Mario 3 was better than Mario World. Both games are great but Mario 3 felt like the more ambitious game, it's the one that feels more fun to finish from start to finish, and it's more challenging than Mario World. The difficulty of Mario World bugs me, the game hands out one-ups like they're candy and the Top Secret Area pretty much breaks the game for me.

And in general I always get burnt out with Mario World around Forrest of Illusion or the Chocolate Island.

 

[Raptomex]

Because the Flute is only found in specific places, is well hidden, and requires a powerup to get. The game doesn't encourage you to find them or use them, and the Flute isn't the only featured powerup in the game.

After the first world in SMW, you can get multiple feathers on pretty much every stage in the game.

Raccoon Mario is much better balanced. You have flight, but it's not infinite. The item is rarer than the feather. And there are other powerups to use to balance it out to make sure you aren't always Raccoon Mario by default.

But once you find the flute you can basically skip the entire game. You can kind of do this with Star Road which is hidden. You can breeze through levels with the cape but also risk not acquiring keys and not finding secret exits (assuming its your first time playing or you just don't know). Being able to go anywhere within the level is freedom.

 

[petran79]

I got SMB3 when it first released, and SMW when it first released.

I prefer SMB3. More power-ups, I enjoyed the level variety a bit more, it was more challenging, overworld obstacles, and the different worlds seemed larger in scope. My big peeve though was how horrible Mario's sprite looks compared to SMB2(US).

Both are great games though.

I found NSMBU to be forgettable. I wanted to like it more.

SMB3 also had more lasting appeal. Up to the mid-90s it was still regarded as a relevant and quality platformer due to NES popularity. SMW and 64 had it tougher with 2d and 3d platformer competition and Playstation rise.

 

[secretanchitman]

Recycled artstyle:

-Beta with NSMBWii placeholder assets

-NSMBU

Completely different artstyles:

Even the UI looks just about identical for NSMBU/NSMBWii. I love how distinct SMB3 and SMW are, even though they are on two different platforms.

Don't get me wrong, I played through NSMBU with 100% completion and it was fine for what it is but definitely not up to the standards that SMB3 and SMW set.

I personally thought NSLU was much better than NSMBU.

 

[PSFan]

Sunshine that high? Come on. That game is borderline unplayable in places.

How so? I played through it and 100%ed it. I encountered nothing that could be considered "unplayable". It's one of my favorite Mario games too as well.

 

[Stoze]

Recycled artstyle:

-Beta with NSMBWii placeholder assets

-NSMBU

Completely different artstyles:

Wait, was this supposed to prove that NSMB/U does better at not-recycling or changing art styles compared to the NES/SNES games? Mario looks to be the exact same render, color, and pose in both the Wii and U versions in those screens. And I'm guessing you deliberately didn't use full shots of the NES/SNES games, just Mario's sprite, because you knew that would further bury your point, despite that being an actual fair and genuine comparison.

Rag I know you like to remind everyone how amazing you think the Wii U Mario games are, heck I think they're pretty great, but come on.

 

[yyr]

Speak for yourself, dude. SMW will always be my favorite.

Not that SMB3 isn't fantastic. But I just love all the things in SMW. Riding Yoshi, running through those environments, flying with the cape, hearing those sound effects and seeing those visuals, seeing those character designs, finding all of the exits...I find literally everything in SMW to be fun, even 27 years and dozens of playthroughs later. The look, the feel, the design of absolutely every element, I love it all. I will never, ever get tired of it. It's not just my favorite Mario; it's probably one of my 5 favorite video games ever made.

I haven't played all the way through NSMBU yet, but for it to top SMW in my book is probably impossible, even if I wind up loving it.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

While they're quality games, I absolutely detest the New! art style.

 

[JavyOO7]

I find the art style of NSMBU cute. Its not beautiful sprites like the NES/SNES Mario's are but its still cute for me.

And NSMBU is IMO the best 2D Mario I've played. I say this not having played/beaten NSMB Wii/2, Yoshi's Island, and NSMB Luigi version. But I have a feeling when its all said and done that I'll still adore it over the rest.

 

[Sciz]

And I'm guessing you deliberately didn't use full shots of the NES/SNES games, just Mario's sprite, because you knew that would further bury your point, despite that being an actual fair and genuine comparison.

Discounting differences in shading, palette, and color depth in pixel art is absurd anyway. Even the subtle changes like whether or not Mario has full eyeballs or how well-defined his ears are stand out, never mind the larger ones like Mario not even being the same color across any of the games, or things that stand out in motion like how many frames his walk cycle is. Throw small Mario's sprites into that comparison and see how well it holds up, too.

 

[Classicblunder]

Sunshine that high? Come on. That game is borderline unplayable in places.

I really liked it in some places. in the end I felt it was half the Mario game I wanted but then filled with coin collectathon Shines to full out the game length. Also the platforming courses without Fludd were all superb.

 

[Plinko]

How so? I played through it and 100%ed it. I encountered nothing that could be considered "unplayable". It's one of my favorite Mario games too as well.

The camera alone makes it incredibly frustrating and nearly unplayable in the hotel level. Getting the red coins in the pachinko level was a disaster. The coin hunts are nothing but tacked-on rehashes that artificially extend the game. The controls weren't great. It just wasn't a good game.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

This bickering seems so silly. I defy you to pick a bad game from the lot.

It's okay to like SMW more than any other Mario game or vice-versa but the fact that Nintendo has managed a baseline quality for the series and kept it up for 30 years is nothing short of astonishing.

 

[Mael]

This bickering seems so silly. I defy you to pick a bad game from the lot.

It's okay to like SMW more than any other Mario game or vice-versa but the fact that Nintendo has managed a baseline quality for the series and kept it up for 30 years is nothing short of astonishing.

Super Mario Sunshine?
Good god that game is full of filler and bad content.

As for SMW? There's a reason Sega was able to pull ahead of Nintendo with Sonic in Megadrive era.
Even at the time it was thought of as this cool sequel that wasn't that worthy of the new hardware.
The gap between YI and SMW feels so much bigger than the gap between SMB3 and SMW.

In term of design, the fact that you can replay levels in SMW breaks the game substantially in ways they didn't take into account.
It's probably one of the main reasons why you could never take powerups with you in Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy/Galaxy2.
SMW is also significantly easier than it has any right to be, at times it's actually easier than SML games which are some of the easiest out there.
The way the items work in SMW is patently useless while in SMB3 it is actually more fun and deliberate to use powerups (they understood this, when the superior NSMB games use SMB3 style while the lesser handheld NSMbs use SMW style items).
They mentionned while making NSMBU that making a cohesive world ala SMW was really much harder so that's why they used it twice.
SMW and NSMBU aren't that imaginative in their structure though. While SMW try to blur the lines between worlds to mix things up a bit and make it feel like an adventure, NSMBU feels like separate maps cobbled together more than 1 seamless world.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This bickering seems so silly. I defy you to pick a bad game from the lot.

Lost Levels is a bad game with bad game design.

 

[Mael]

Lost Levels is a bad game with bad game design.

Interestingly enough they probably decided against selling that game in the West after its less than fantastic performance.
It sold less Metroid(WW numbers for Metroid but still).
SMB2 sold more than twice as much (showing again that the market can react to quality when it sees it).

 

[HyGogg]

SMW was one of the weaker entries in the series, especially in the context in which it was released.

It was an extremely "safe," sequel. Despite tossing in some gratuitous "effects" in a tacky, tech-demo fashion, it was basically more of the same, but with obviously rushed level design and a lower level of polish than Mario 3. It was pushed out too quickly to make launch.

Not only that, but it really failed to impress as a showcase for an expensive new system. It was released not that long after Super Mario 3 without much improvement, and basically alongside Sonic the Hedgehog, which came off as genuinely "next gen" in a way SMW didn't. And the public largely reacted as such -- Genesis outsold SNES until after Sega moved on to Saturn.

The visual design is inconsistent, and seems like a mash of like 3 different art styles. It didn't have real art direction like 2 or 3 did. The Ghost House levels are just outright terrible pieces of game design. They're just annoying and un-fun. It's really not a great game.

It's not an outright terrible game, but it was a mis-step in the context of the series, and it gets overrated largely because it was followed by many other good games (16-bit Sonic gets underrated because it was followed by many terrible games).

Yoshi's Island, on the other hand was absolutely a masterpiece.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Interestingly enough they probably decided against selling that game in the West after its less than fantastic performance.
It sold less Metroid(WW numbers for Metroid but still).
SMB2 sold more than twice as much (showing again that the market can react to quality when it sees it).

The way SMB2 is treated, I'm almost positive Nintendo has retconned that it's the "real" SMB2 and Lost Levels is just a random spin off level pack for SMB that is best left forgotten or at least looked at as a curiosity and nothing more.

Think of all the references to the Lost Levels in future Mario games. And then think of all the references from SMB2 in future games. It's a startling difference.

 

[mrlion]

I dont like SMW all that much either but its still a great game for what it is. SMB3 though is the best Mario yet at least for the 2D ones. It presented features that are going to be present in Mario games of the modern era so in a way SMB3 was ahead of its time.

 

[Mael]

The way SMB2 is treated, I'm almost positive Nintendo has retconned that it's the "real" SMB2 and Lost Levels is just a random spin off level pack for SMB that is best left forgotten or at least looked at as a curiosity and nothing more.

Think of all the references to the Lost Levels in future Mario games. And then think of all the references from SMB2 in future games. It's a startling difference.

Flagship Mario games for Nintendo is 3D Mario since Mario 64.
The fact that Mario 3D World is back to SMB2 style of choose your character as well as how Yoshi's Island borrows heavily into SMB2 tells you all you really need to know.
The few new things SMB2 : Lost Levels brings have never been seen again.
The purple mushroom is not even used in Super Mario Kart when there's an item that could be a direct reference.
The very name it was given in the West, Lost Level, shows that for everyone it should be lost levels of SMB1 more than a bona fide sequel to their most successful game at the time.

 

[cartman414]

I dunno, for me the thrill was exploring and finding hidden stuff. Like finding a pipe you could go down or the hidden gates in SMW. I think the exploration was just fine in the early 2D games. The platforming was never the main draw in Mario games for me. Maybe that's why I don't like the NSMB series as much as the old 2D Mario games.

Well I guess you never cared much for the first SMB then, either. When your moveset is mostly run, jump, powerup, and you only have a relatively limited number of ways to interact with the play field, and very little you need to find (the occasional key doesn't cut the mustard), there isn't much to be gleaned from exploring. It's as I said: Mario's straightforward arsenal of moves is geared towards platforming, something that was upstaged by the focus on bigger areas in World.

There are games that have done exploration based platforming miles better, like Kirby and Wario, because they actually give you different ways of interacting with the areas, and more incentive to scrounge up whatever secrets (rather than just extra coins/lives/whatever).

 

[PSFan]

The camera alone makes it incredibly frustrating and nearly unplayable in the hotel level. Getting the red coins in the pachinko level was a disaster. The coin hunts are nothing but tacked-on rehashes that artificially extend the game. The controls weren't great. It just wasn't a good game.

I didn't think that at all. I had no trouble with the controls either. I enjoyed everything about the game, but then again I really enjoy collectathons. DK64 is one of my favorites of all time.

By the way, what is the consensus on the All-Stars versions of SMB3 and SMB2? Are they considered better than the NES version, worse or same?

 

[UncleSporky]

The few new things SMB2 : Lost Levels brings have never been seen again.

What new things? It didn't add much to begin with, but...

Levels with heavy wind?

Poison Mushroom?

You see less reference to it just because there wasn't much it added for there to even be referenced. If it had added some new enemy you can be sure we would be seeing it.

I mean, if that's a point that actually matters...we've barely seen more of most enemies from SMW, like "chestnut" goombas etc.

 

[Sciz]

Well I guess you never cared much for the first SMB then, either. When your moveset is mostly run, jump, powerup, and you only have a relatively limited number of ways to interact with the play field, and very little you need to find (the occasional key doesn't cut the mustard), there isn't much to be gleaned from exploring.

what

SMB1 is full of hidden stuff, and unlike every other game in the series, the fact that it mostly consists of powerups and coins is actually rewarding thanks to the difficulty balance not being trivialized yet. You don't need highly sophisticated controls to hide secrets.

 

[Mael]

What new things? It didn't add much to begin with, but...

Levels with heavy wind?

Poison Mushroom?

You see less reference to it just because there wasn't much it added for there to even be referenced. If it had added some new enemy you can be sure we would be seeing it.

I mean, if that's a point that actually matters...we've barely seen more of most enemies from SMW, like "chestnut" goombas etc.

I totally blanked the level in NSMBW but seriously it's 1 level in 20+ years (because the other is a tornado not strong wing and works totally differently too).
And poison mushrooms only appeared in some levels in Mario 3D Land.
That's about it.
Shyguys are in nearly all Mario Kart games and they're the default Yoshi enemy.
From SMW, well there's Yoshi (ridable or not), the save system is basically the one used for all NSMB games.
Ghost levels that are in ALL subsequent Mario games (2D or 3D).
Chestnuts appear more often than whatever is from LL as they appear in multiple Party games.

 

[PSqueak]

While i generally agree that YI and 3 are better, i disagree with most of your complaints and NSMBU feels actually like a dumbed down further SMW.

 

[UncleSporky]

I totally blanked the level in NSMBW but seriously it's 1 level in 20+ years (because the other is a tornado not strong wing and works totally differently too).
And poison mushrooms only appeared in some levels in Mario 3D Land.
That's about it.
Shyguys are in nearly all Mario Kart games and they're the default Yoshi enemy.
From SMW, well there's Yoshi (ridable or not), the save system is basically the one used for all NSMB games.
Ghost levels that are in ALL subsequent Mario games (2D or 3D).
Chestnuts appear more often than whatever is from LL as they appear in multiple Party games.

You specifically said they were never seen again.

Lots of stuff in Mario games have been seen only once or twice. Chucks, for example. Reznor only appears in NSMB2. Rip Van Fish and Fishing Boo have never been seen since SMW. But that's pretty par for the course among Mario games! You say how ubiquitous SMB2 is but Flurrys have never been in any other game...Autobomb, Albatoss...Beezo was in Mario RPG under a different name...Cobrat, Hoopster, Phanto (one of the most famous enemies in the game), Porcupo, etc.

 

[jwhit28]

I just want to add that YI had the best koopa troopas. The paratroopas especially. So many frames of animation.

 

[WarioFan63]

I was gonna say that something Lost Levels introduced that’s still in future games was the Luigi jump, but I guess given that Peach’s float is considered to be from SMB USA, I suppose you might as well say Luigi’s jump is from there too.

EDIT: oh no wait, actually Luigi being more slippery in Lost Levels is something that showed up in later games and also can’t be cheated to SMB USA

 

[cartman414]

what

SMB1 is full of hidden stuff, and unlike every other game in the series, the fact that it mostly consists of powerups and coins is actually rewarding thanks to the difficulty balance not being trivialized yet. You don't need highly sophisticated controls to hide secrets.

I never said the games didn't originally have any secrets. They were neat little extras, sometimes a bit of a risk/reward thing. But they didn't overtake the focus of the game from the platforming.

 

[Oblivion]

This bickering seems so silly. I defy you to pick a bad game from the lot.

That's quite easy:

SMB
SMB2JP
Super Mario Land 1 and 2
Super Mario Sunshine
NSMB
NSMB2
SM3DL

Spoiler

SM3DW

edit: To be clear, before y'all pull the knives out, SMB was greatly influential, but it is utterly basic and primitive by today's standards.

 

[mordecaii83]

Sorry OP, but no...

Cape, spin jump, longer levels, and all the secrets in SMW make it the better game than SMB3. And I don't care what anyone says, I hate all the NSMB games. The way Mario feels is just straight trash.

YI is so different I don't really compare them. No timer, the importance of egg-throwing, and more of an explanation on exploration just make it almost feel like a different genre. I still prefer SMW to it though.

 

[ZeoVGM]

That's quite easy:

SM3DL
SM3DW

One of the best 3DS games and one of the best 3D platformers ever.

What.