firehawk12
Subete no aware
Man, that twist was so terrible. Ugh.
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. |OT| Tahiti is a Magical Place (to...Hey guys, I found it!)
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Red Arremer
Member
lol I love how so many things I called ended up being true.
Hand being a red herring and actually good (and thinking coulson & co. were Hydra). Just the details I wasn't right about. Ward ending up being a mole and Triplett probably joining the regular cast. Only thing I wasn't sure about was Garrett, but I was thinking it would be likely he'd end up being a villain cause he was just way too sympathetic.
That said, I think Ward might gonna come back as redeeming anti-hero. Also nooooo, not Hand. :C
Well... guess I gotta go...
Hand being a red herring and actually good (and thinking coulson & co. were Hydra). Just the details I wasn't right about. Ward ending up being a mole and Triplett probably joining the regular cast. Only thing I wasn't sure about was Garrett, but I was thinking it would be likely he'd end up being a villain cause he was just way too sympathetic.
That said, I think Ward might gonna come back as redeeming anti-hero. Also nooooo, not Hand. :C
Well... guess I gotta go...
petethepanda
Member
Can we just stop doing the "I didn't mention that!" thing for, like, forever?
The show still isn't great, but these last two were the first I watched since ep8 or so and at the very least it's certainly a whole lot better.
The show still isn't great, but these last two were the first I watched since ep8 or so and at the very least it's certainly a whole lot better.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Was kinda bullshit in the comics. Writer went:
oops run ending, need a random shock value death.
Red Arremer
Member
Regarding the discussion about Ward being potentially Coulson's double agent inside of Hydra - it's possible, but it also seemed like Ward and Garrett had a thing going. There's this one scene where Ward and May come out of the cell on the plane, and Garrett grabs Ward, pulls him aside and tells him that Victoria Hand is the Clairvoyant, and that he should "chew on that". The expression on Ward's face, to me at least, seemed less surprised about that reveal, rather than realizing that it wasn't them (i.e. Ward and Garrett) being found out as Hydra. Tho, might've been just the stoic barely moving face of the actor.
What is that from?You're probably right, but I can dream!
Jest Chillin
Member
Well that episode was insane. And I was totally wrong on Hand. The Whedon's got me!
If this keeps rolling the way they claim it's going to all the way to the end of the season it'll be one hell of a 7 ep back end run.
If this keeps rolling the way they claim it's going to all the way to the end of the season it'll be one hell of a 7 ep back end run.
Black-Wind
Member
Wuuuuut??? Dude just offed a jet full of actual shield Agents in cold blood and it SEEMS that he was running the long con and was a Hydra Agent along with his S.O.
Also, Coulson needs to stop being a lil bitch about May reporting to GOD DAMN NICK FURY about his health. Yall are Shield Agents, work for Fury and all Spies ... you should know the Compartmentalization by now.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Batman/Superman:Apocalypse
Black-Wind
Member
I think that's gonna happen. Given what was said this episode, because of her skills she would be high ranked within HYDRA and likely high enough to know if a high ranking SHIELD Agent is really HYDRA or not.
Could explain why she was so adamant that they send Skye's blood to the Hub - she wanted Hydra to know what she had found.
WesternHeretic
Member
Well at least they are making up for the first half of this show.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Ugh I hope Ward truly is a HYDRA agent and this isn't a rouse. Then they can replace him with Maria Hill next season or even have Tripplet join the team.... OR BOTH! But yeah, I hate Ward, but him being evil at least makes him slightly more interesting.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Is the Clairvoyant
? Because that makes the most sense.
Armin Zola
Red Arremer
Member
In the scene where Hand does the "test", Simmons also is just standing there. If she knew who was Hydra, then she would've been in on Hand's involvement (or vice versa; Hand would've known) - but she didn't know about Hand being part of the infiltrators, so she was surprised. It's Triplett who takes action, and she sighs in relief. Of course, might be that the threat has been vanquished, but who knows.
Watch today's episode and you'll know.
R_thanatos
Member
i just can't understand how good this serie has gooten in the last 7 eps .. I'm not extra hyped after all those cliffangers ..
I expected last week episode to be a tie-in with TWS , but it turn out that both last week and this weeks were tie-ins
Also i think that
Something like OCelot in MGS ..but then it wouldn't make sense with all the rest of the show .....
Well someone will manage to make it work.
I expected last week episode to be a tie-in with TWS , but it turn out that both last week and this weeks were tie-ins
Also i think that
ward is a triple agent
Well someone will manage to make it work.
I actually have this whole thing pegged
as a set up deep cover thing that Hand was in on knowing that it was the only way in. Whether they have some way for her to have lived through it or not is here nor there, but I definitely think it will all have been an infiltrate at all costs thing
Gemüsepizza
Member
Great episode, but I didn't really like
.
what Victoria Hand did there. First she wanted to kill Coulson and his crew just because of an assumption that he may be working for Hydra, and then her stupid test for Simmons - what was the point of that? Pulling a gun to their heads and demand that they swear allegiance to Hydra, and then probably shoot them when they do that because they want to survive? That's just crazy. Most people in such situations would say anything to save their lifes, that doesn't prove anything
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
That would be me :/
I think after next week's episode it would be fair to have unspoiler barred discussion but that's me.
It's a tough call, but I think it's an inevitability that the design of this show existing in a wider and current universe calls for.
mugurumakensei
Member
Gemüsepizza;107508641 said:
It wasn't a test to see if they were Hydra. It was a test to see if they were loyal to SHIELD enough to die for it. If they weren't that loyal, they'd become HYDRA eventually so neutralize the threat early.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
There's way more to the movie than what they spoiled in tonight's ep. I say we wait and see what the next episode brings, as it's supposedly the last direct tie in to TWS?
Keyser Soze
Member
I should not be in here, I have not seen anything (film, latest episode)...
PANIC!!
PANIC!!
Gemüsepizza
Member
Like I said, in such a situation most people would say anything to save their life at this moment, even if they would never want to really join Hydra. For example it also makes a lot of sense to say yes in order to get to a better tactical position. So this "loyality test" is a failure, and her "kill everyone" rhetoric is just batshit insane.
Byakuya769
Member
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
Red Arremer
Member
Gemüsepizza;107510597 said:
Most people, yes, but we're talking about agents of SHIELD. People who go through years of high-end training, drilling and education to become the best at what they do (infiltrating and spying) and not lose their cool the moment somebody points a gun at them.
Yeah, but the smart thing to do 100% of the time is to live long enough to complete your mission.
These guys are spies not clergymen.
Byakuya769
Member
As if POWs don't refuse to say loyalty oaths all the time.
People just want to hate this show so badly.
Gemüsepizza
Member
So you think their training would rather make them want to die instantly instead of lying in order to get into a better tactical position and maybe get a second chance to fight against their enemy? Then I think their training is bad. I would lie and look for an opportunity to take them out. A better test would be to give them an empty weapon and demand that they shoot a SHIELD prisoner. That would be a real loyality test.
I don't "hate" the show, I watched every episode and I just criticised something which was bothering me a little bit.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Red Arremer
Member
Yes, and that's exactly why it's imperative to know whom you can trust. Since Hand didn't know who was Hydra, what other way was there for her? Somebody who is ready to die at gunpoint for refusing to switch allegiances frivolously is obviously not going to switch allegiances in the long run. Imagine they would've said "yes let me join Hydra", what should Hand have done with them? This was a situation in which the base was basically in a state of war, and in which people get killed.
Would you want somebody you know who has your back at your side, or somebody who you know might waver at the first sign of trouble?
Gemüsepizza;107511467 said:
Where did you get the notion that Hand had the opportunity to get a prisoner? Before the scene with Triplett and Simmons, she had 5 other agents at her side. Why do you think she would've risked dragging a prisoner - a person who also would likely try to escape? She didn't have the time nor resources to get a prisoner, drag them around and keep that prisoner under guard to make sure they don't run away.
And given the fact the Hub was basically at a state of war, and there was no way of knowing who was friendly and who was hostile, that would've been too much of a risk. For Hand and her people, and also for the prisoner.
RedAssedApe
Banned
First episode I've watched in a while. Was still pretty meh despite the tie-ins to tws.
a secret-boss
Banned
so we can finally talk about this episode w/o spoiler tag right.
didn't expect Ward to turn @ the end. I thought it was close case already.
Hail Hydra
didn't expect Ward to turn @ the end. I thought it was close case already.
Hail Hydra
Gemüsepizza
Member
I would want to have someone at my side who will do what is necessary to win, not some idealistic idiot who wants to sacrifice his life for some dumb words and empty phrases nobody will ever hear outside this room. Dead people can't win a fight. And the test I have described above is much better suited to test their loyality.
There were two persons, Simmons and the other guy. She could have given one of them a weapon to kill the other guy.
Affeinvasion
Member
Gemüsepizza;107512517 said:
Well unfortunately most rigid chain-of-command organizations do not want that.
Red Arremer
Member
Gemüsepizza;107512517 said:
See my edit towards your post, your post came between my response and the post I responded to.
As for the rest of your post: This has nothing to do with idealism or words. But sure, go ahead, grab the guys who will backstab you at the first opportunity.
Gemüsepizza;107512517 said:
And what if the one you give the gun to was Hydra, and that Hydra ended up killing a SHIELD agent?
Jest Chillin
Member
"Just say whatever you need to, to survive. Pledge allegiance to the enemy, give up vital information, do whatever they want you to do. We understand. Your life is on the line. And maybe at some point you can flip on them and come back to our side. We'll totally trust you after all that."
Gemüsepizza
Member
What? Just because someone pretends to cooperate with them doesn't mean he will really do that. And like I said, this test is not good enough to test the loyality, because it doesn't consider that some people loyal to SHIELD would lie and say they are loyal to Hydra.
With an empty weapon?
What? Who said that? Exactly, nobody. You can lie and still be loyal to SHIELD. Government agencies all around the world do this all the time... If you are dead you are useless.
Jest Chillin
Member
Gemüsepizza;107513546 said:
Yeah, no I'm not buying it. If somebody is given an assignment to infiltrate an organization, sure. I can believe that. But to just switch sides in a moment because your life is on the line? Nope. Not the type of resolve that I'd want in someone who's supposed to have my back.
And your empty gun test only finds out if the person you give the gun to is Hydra. It doesn't verify the other at all. It also fails if both people claim allegiance to Hydra.
In response to the current debate, there's only three outcomes to the test.
1. They pledge complete loyalty to SHIELD. This is the best outcome, as this person refuses to help the enemy in any way and has very clearly shown to honor SHIELD over their own life. You can trust these people.
2. They switch sides to HYDRA wholey and completely. Rotten people who either can't be trusted or are cowards. Do not trust these people.
3. They pretend to switch to HYDRA to go deep undercover and run espionage. They can not communicate to you their plan to run the long con and have committed to helping HYDRA at least in some capacity. These people could easily be part of option 2. Do you really trust these people? What are you gonna do, give everyone the benefit of the doubt?
Yes, no, and maybe. I think I'd just take option 1.
1. They pledge complete loyalty to SHIELD. This is the best outcome, as this person refuses to help the enemy in any way and has very clearly shown to honor SHIELD over their own life. You can trust these people.
2. They switch sides to HYDRA wholey and completely. Rotten people who either can't be trusted or are cowards. Do not trust these people.
3. They pretend to switch to HYDRA to go deep undercover and run espionage. They can not communicate to you their plan to run the long con and have committed to helping HYDRA at least in some capacity. These people could easily be part of option 2. Do you really trust these people? What are you gonna do, give everyone the benefit of the doubt?
Yes, no, and maybe. I think I'd just take option 1.
Cornballer
Member
Eh, most of the broad strokes that were addressed tonight in the episode are fine and good, but I don't know if we should be talking about minor plot points from TWS since they're not necessarily relevant here. Let's keep the tags going for at least another week and then we can assess.
Of course. It's already aired. Just tag preview discussion and stuff from TWS that wasn't mentioned tonight. Make sure to label your tags so we know what's from TWS and what's from the preview. Thanks.
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