Duckroll, I think it's very clear that "Z" is trolling now. Could you please give him a temp ban so we can get on with our lives?
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Aksys has no plans to dub BlazBlue Central Fiction [Petition Added to OP]
- Thread starter Busaiku
- Start date
Duckroll, I think it's very clear that "Z" is trolling now. Could you please give him a temp ban so we can get on with our lives?
Ludger Kresnik
Member
Signed and shared the petition. My attachment to BB's dub is epic, even if I don't like the series as much anymore because of the direction it took after CS. (I still bought CP and CPEX, mind you) Noel is one of my favourite characters ever, and I definitely wouldn't have liked her as much without Cristina Vee's gorgeous performance. Same with Ragna, Patrick Seitz really brought something extra to the role that I don't get with Sugita.
As for the delay argument, this has been brought up before but it bears repeating. BlazBlue's localisation hasn't been handled well at all since it stopped being done in-house at Aksys and got outsourced by Arc instead. CT and CS both released in the US less than a month after Japan with full dubs. This is completely down to cost cutting, not time, and shitsux. So, the message we'd want to send that it is worth putting in the money to dub CF, and I guess the petition and bugging them about it on social media is all we can do about that for the time being.
Also, fyi, the original language version is not always objectively the best one. There's this thing called opinions, I'm not sure if you've heard about them. It's something people can have and it differs between them. I personally default to English dubs most of the time because it's easier to connect to, though I'm not a native speaker. If the dub is offensively bad I'll swap over if given the option, but BlazBlue's is anything but.
As for the delay argument, this has been brought up before but it bears repeating. BlazBlue's localisation hasn't been handled well at all since it stopped being done in-house at Aksys and got outsourced by Arc instead. CT and CS both released in the US less than a month after Japan with full dubs. This is completely down to cost cutting, not time, and shitsux. So, the message we'd want to send that it is worth putting in the money to dub CF, and I guess the petition and bugging them about it on social media is all we can do about that for the time being.
Also, fyi, the original language version is not always objectively the best one. There's this thing called opinions, I'm not sure if you've heard about them. It's something people can have and it differs between them. I personally default to English dubs most of the time because it's easier to connect to, though I'm not a native speaker. If the dub is offensively bad I'll swap over if given the option, but BlazBlue's is anything but.
Z..
Member
Thing is, I dabled in dubs quite alot until quite recently, they never stopped being options because the english dubs were often what you would find on VHS anime and older films that I watched growing up. It was formative for me to see the works of Akira Kurosawa, Sergio Leone and even some Shaw Brothers stuff in their english dubs growing up in the VHS 90s. Couple that with Akira, Ghost In The Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Ninja Scroll and most of Ghibli's stuff. These were my go to copies for that type of stuff for quite a while. Plus, I grew up watching unsubbed Cartoon Network on tv all day. It was the very first dedicated children's channel that our country had ever had access to (through cable) and I loved it from a very young age. All it fed me was english media so I was pretty much fluent in the language by the time I was 7 by complete accident (thanks CN, you're still the kings) and so english dubs were something I actively sought out.
I'm not sure I can call my situation socially conditioned towards any side, quite frankly... the deciding factor was actually me leaning more and more into foreign film which more often than not lacked an english language option. I instantly noticed how much more appropriate the vocals were and never went back... but upon revisiting some classics is when it truly dawned on me... People can like the dub on GITS all they want, it's a completely different narrative style, the lines are alot less nuanced and quite frankly the performances are just derivative of other contemporary media and clearly do not understand the nature of the film their are working on.
Since then I've stuck to original audio only and the tonal shifts are rampant and mostly prejudicial and uncalled for.
Even great dubs like princess mononoke feel insulting. The english dub sounds amazing and is very poetically delivered throughout most of the epic film, but the pointless and constant twisting of lines and tone of delivery is poisonous from the perspective of someone who personally values screenwriting to an assuredly high degree. It undermines the world building and outright betrays the emotional delivery of the characters. It paints foreign customs in a very domestic light and that always seeps in.
Cowboy Bebop also suffers at the hands of it's original cast.
Bear in mind these are all examples of very well liked and regarded dubs which just so happened to be the de facto versions in my mind until I revisited them with the original vocal delivery years later. You can't escape the mangling, it's ever present.
At the same time, there's obviously cases where it's hardly relevant at all. Sergio Leone's italian dubs are just as atrocious as his english ones (despite his movies being undeniable masterpieces of modern cinema), same for the Shaw Brothers stuff and I'm sure it will also apply to many other great films throughout the pages of history.
Brushguy Woodthreep
Member
First and foremost, the fact that you're even talking about growing up watching English dubs on Cartoon Network highlights the real reason subbing countries (generally) exist: $$$$$$, or lack thereof. Dubbing everything would be too expensive when a language is only spoken in one or two countries with small populations. You grow up dealing with subs (or even untranslated media) not because of any inherent benefit to subs, but because the other option isn't practical.
Sure it is. You grew up accustomed to the idea that foreign media isn't necessarily presented in your native language. Hell, you watched a lot of things in a third language (English) that's neither the original (Japanese) or your own native language (unspecified). I don't know if you're an atypical case in your country, but if every kid was watching untranslated Cartoon Network, then it doesn't sound like it.
You must be able to get that your own background biases you against the idea that things need to be dubbed into your native language. Remember, the people posting in this thread are mostly (I assume) native English speakers. They're discussing whether BlazBlue should be dubbed into their own language, not a third language.
The rest of your post is mostly just personal opinion, but there's a couple of things I want to respond to.
Huge assumption here that the Japanese performances are not derivative of other media. Without as much background in the original media, it's much harder to judge this. Sometimes, just not being familiar with other works can make something seem artificially fresh and new.
(You may have gained enough background in Japanese media to judge by this point, but I'm skeptical that you had it to begin with.)
Also, highbrow examples like GITS and Princess Mononoke may be exceptions, but for most anime and video games, the Japanese performances are very, very samey. "Derivative" is probably not a strong enough word.
Case in point. The original cast is doing anime tropes, while the English cast is emulating film noir and such. Arguably both are valid, but most people agree the English version is better.
Painting foreign customs in a domestic light is what allows viewers to understand them without an overt sense of foreignness. If you don't do this, you're not properly conveying the creators' intentions. They (usually) created the work with their own domestic market in mind, and these aspects are supposed to feel normal and natural to the viewer. If you watch it and get a sense of mystical foreignness instead, you're not experiencing the work as intended.
Of course, a lot of people who watch foreign films (or watch anime, or play Japanese video games) are very into that sense of mystical foreignness. That's fine, you can enjoy whatever you like, but it's got nothing to do with preserving the creators' original intentions.
Sure it is. You grew up accustomed to the idea that foreign media isn't necessarily presented in your native language. Hell, you watched a lot of things in a third language (English) that's neither the original (Japanese) or your own native language (unspecified). I don't know if you're an atypical case in your country, but if every kid was watching untranslated Cartoon Network, then it doesn't sound like it.
You must be able to get that your own background biases you against the idea that things need to be dubbed into your native language. Remember, the people posting in this thread are mostly (I assume) native English speakers. They're discussing whether BlazBlue should be dubbed into their own language, not a third language.
The rest of your post is mostly just personal opinion, but there's a couple of things I want to respond to.
Huge assumption here that the Japanese performances are not derivative of other media. Without as much background in the original media, it's much harder to judge this. Sometimes, just not being familiar with other works can make something seem artificially fresh and new.
(You may have gained enough background in Japanese media to judge by this point, but I'm skeptical that you had it to begin with.)
Also, highbrow examples like GITS and Princess Mononoke may be exceptions, but for most anime and video games, the Japanese performances are very, very samey. "Derivative" is probably not a strong enough word.
Case in point. The original cast is doing anime tropes, while the English cast is emulating film noir and such. Arguably both are valid, but most people agree the English version is better.
Painting foreign customs in a domestic light is what allows viewers to understand them without an overt sense of foreignness. If you don't do this, you're not properly conveying the creators' intentions. They (usually) created the work with their own domestic market in mind, and these aspects are supposed to feel normal and natural to the viewer. If you watch it and get a sense of mystical foreignness instead, you're not experiencing the work as intended.
Of course, a lot of people who watch foreign films (or watch anime, or play Japanese video games) are very into that sense of mystical foreignness. That's fine, you can enjoy whatever you like, but it's got nothing to do with preserving the creators' original intentions.
A tad late, but for those just catching up, there's some minor updates.
Patrick Seitz is definitely saying that a dub at this point has a chance.
"All right, guys... let's do our best to give dubbed BlazBlue the Astral Finish it deserves!"
And Aksys Games has slightly changed their tune from "ain't happening" and "no plans" to saying they've heard us.
So keep making some noise, people!
And Sign the Petition While You're At It!
Patrick Seitz is definitely saying that a dub at this point has a chance.
"All right, guys... let's do our best to give dubbed BlazBlue the Astral Finish it deserves!"
And Aksys Games has slightly changed their tune from "ain't happening" and "no plans" to saying they've heard us.
So keep making some noise, people!
And Sign the Petition While You're At It!
Quality is important. People don't like watching a bad dub, because the quality of the dub is bad. If the dub is well made, many people will prefer it. It doesn't mean they can't read subtitles, it just means they can enjoy it in a more natural way. This isn't something you can "disagree" with because no one is talking about you here, but other people.
Also, I think you have a shit understanding of what is a "sub country" or a "dub country" judging from all the garbage you are spewing. The majority of foreign entertainment consumed in Asia is subtitled, not dubbed. There is obviously also a dub industry to cater to people who prefer that, which is the entire point being made here - whatever reasons you want to come up with to say that dubs should not exist is rubbish because it is something that exists because people want it. Not the other way round.
Please stop wasting our time.
Please don't backseat mod.
cj_iwakura
Member
For me, one of the biggest reasons to want a dub is Nine: The Phantom finally being playable. I always loved her dub voice, and I want to see her go full psycho when voicing the playable version. Same with Jubei(sans the psycho part).
That's exactly what they were saying. I would argue this point, use quotes and everything, but I know that it would all fall on deaf ears.
You know what? Maybe the people at Aksys just hate you people. I could see why. Maybe that is why they are doing this. They have seen the arguments you guys make and they have decided to punish you. Good on you, Aksys. Down with dubs.
WrenchNinja
Member
Well nice to see your true colours come out
Celcius
°Temp. member
Wait wait wait... now you're saying you don't like the english dub for even Cowboy Bebop? Now you've gone too far!
That's a great point, I was really looking forward to hearing her english dub as well.
Also, we're closing in on 1300 signatures woohoo!
s_mirage
Member
Yes, but the understanding of those performances relies upon subtitles that are the interpretation of the translator, just as a dub is an interpretation. Even with my rudimentary level of Japanese, it's clear that subtitles sometimes differ significantly from what is actually being said.
Whatever the case, I'm not arguing that people shouldn't want, or shouldn't listen to, an original language track. Hell, I almost always use subs for live action films. I'm arguing that it's impossible to truly judge the relative merits of a particular voice over without proper understanding of the language, subtitles are poor at conveying nuance, and those issues invalidate the assertion that original VA/subtitles are always better.
There used to be a common faction of people on GAF arguing that those preferring subtitles are somehow "wrong" to do that. (Well, those arguing were the nice ones in fact, denigrating people for their sub preferences was more en vogue)
At least that seems more or less over with, outside of the occasional Atlus thread.
At least that seems more or less over with, outside of the occasional Atlus thread.
R_thanatos
Member
If think it's clear that Aksys is already aware of it
Signed. At least there's a chance.
cj_iwakura
Member
I've counted at least six VAs who've backed it and/or shouted it out. Seitz, Cristina V, David Vincent(Jin), Cindy Robinson(Makoto), DC Douglas(Azrael/Wesker), and Mela Lee(Rachel).
It's win win at this point. Either it works, or Aksys are going to look like giant tools.
tintin1029
Member
Signed
I've always doubted Petitions about 100% of the time, but I'm pretty confident that this will at least have some impact.
There's no way they're gonna delay the game's release for it though, that's for sure.
I'm thinking best case scenario is that the dub comes as (paid) DLC somewhere down the line.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I'm holding out on being hopeful as I dont want to be disappointed a second time, but I care enough to put in a lot of effort to try and make this happen.
Regardless of people saying that gamers need to just take what they are given, its becoming increasingly frequent that developers and publishers will listen, especially when feedback is well organized and presented respectfully.
The latter not always necessary but it creates a better image. I wish I could think of all the items I had for the list a while back, but for some examples: Digimon Cyber Slueth localization petition, mass effect 3 ending changes (even if the results were still met mostly unfavorably the dev still responded), the original release plan for the xbox one, the releases of xenoblade chronicles, the last story, and pandora's tower.
When gamers talk developers do listen, and when we make our voices heard in a respectful manner we have nothing to lose, only something to gain.
From personal experience, I've been a part of many of those petitions and movements, so I can attest first-hand how we can and have made a difference before.
I remember calling Nintendo's representatives to tell them I wanted Xenoblade and The Last Story brought to the Americas. I remember writing Bioware my concerns over the ME3 ending. I remember emailing companies like Capcom and requesting a Resident Evil 2 Remake and keeping those hops alive for so very long.
Companies are a business, but a good business is one that knows where a demand is and what needs they can meet. If demand for a dub - or a release, or a remake, or a remaster, or a new endings - is high enough, companies often will listen, because it's not just a good thing to do but also smart business. It provides great PR, keeps a fanbase happy and retains their support, and also puts them in a better position for future releases and future endeavors if they can keep players happy long-term instead of pleasing only a select few short-term.
But I've been in the trenches for many of these gmaer movements, and I can definitely say that more than a few of them have paid off, even when things seemed dire at times.
Edit: I notice the petition is closing in fast on 2000 signatures. Well done.
LordGorchnik
Member
Great job guys. Didn't know quite a few of the dub actors signed the petition as well. That's definitely good to hear.
If only ATLUS had the same mindset for the original JP audio in Persona 5. Completely different beast of burden but hey.
Also, this thread (along with P5s) should now make it clear that one or the other (Subs/Dubs) is in no way inherently better than the other as there are plenty of arguments for each side.
.....Unless that game is Chaos Wars. -shudder-
If only ATLUS had the same mindset for the original JP audio in Persona 5. Completely different beast of burden but hey.
Also, this thread (along with P5s) should now make it clear that one or the other (Subs/Dubs) is in no way inherently better than the other as there are plenty of arguments for each side.
.....Unless that game is Chaos Wars. -shudder-
professor denim
Member
Signed. Just arrived from japan, the series is huge in the arcades, lots of people playing it.
I played it while I was over there myself. totally fun. (
though I got wrecked when a Japanese guy decided to fight me. 
still fun though!
still fun though!ShadowSoldier89
Member
I played it a lot during my trip back in december. Was my chance to get a leg up before the console version.I played it while I was over there myself. totally fun. ()though I got wrecked when a Japanese guy decided to fight me.
Granted everything I learned with the new version has been lost since coming home and playing CPE
leatherhat
Member
This is quite the gut punch. The english VA's are the characters to me. It will be very weird not to have them around, and the loss of all of the in game dialog is really going to suck.
Well I signed the petition, hopefully it amounts to something.
Well I signed the petition, hopefully it amounts to something.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
why I am trying to keep the conversation going, without of coruse just force bumping the thread.
Everytime one of the VA's posts on twitter too you get more people saying they had no idea the dub was even nixed, let alone the petition
Yeah, the major battle is simply getting the word out. People can't weigh in on an issue if they don't know there's an issue in the first place. We really do need to get the thread title changed to reflect that there's a petition now...
A title change would definitely be appreciated.
I also may try submitting this as a newsworthy topic to some sites like Kotaku and Destructoid. I've had good experiences with them in the past and they've run a few of my news leads before, and since we actually have the actual voice actors themselves supporting this, I'd qualify that as newsworthy.
It would certainly reach more people than just trying to share the petition around person-to-person.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
2000 Signatures Get
Burning Water
Neo Member
I signed, that makes 1999!. I like this series, and I'd like to see fellow fans be as wholly happy as possible.
Chronospherics
Member
I think BB is the only anime inspired fighter that received any mainstream attention and the removal of the dub pushes it one step closer towards losing that. The same is true for guilty gear, many of my friends used to buy guilty gear because it was actually very western-inspired and they liked that stylisation, but the lack of English voices affect that.
I think this is okay for BB, because it's a series that's been dwindling in popularity therefore they only need to concern themselves with its niche, who will buy it anyway. However, for Guilty Gear it was a mistake. With that said, even for BB they probably should have kept this for the sake of consistency. If BB isn't popular enough to justify an English dub perhaps its time to give the franchise a rest.
I think this is okay for BB, because it's a series that's been dwindling in popularity therefore they only need to concern themselves with its niche, who will buy it anyway. However, for Guilty Gear it was a mistake. With that said, even for BB they probably should have kept this for the sake of consistency. If BB isn't popular enough to justify an English dub perhaps its time to give the franchise a rest.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Surprisingly, at least to me, Shoryuken has actually been covering this. This is their second article on the dub being removed, first on the petition
http://shoryuken.com/2016/08/29/fan...-english-dubbing-in-blazblue-central-fiction/
http://shoryuken.com/2016/08/29/fan...-english-dubbing-in-blazblue-central-fiction/
tintin1029
Member
If you think that's awkward, try Taokaka or Platinum.
Their Japanese voices are straight up awful.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I can tolerate JP Platinum, but JP Taokaka is The Worst. I really like Chiwa Saito, too!
tintin1029
Member
To me, Platinum's voice is the perfect example of why I prefer the english version of BlazBlue.
You have her Japanese voice, which while I agree is not terrible, it's just generic loli girl voice.
So what do they do for the English voice? Have mutha fuckin Laura Bailey (unarguably my favorite voice actress in the business) do the greatest brattiest shit kid voice ever. She makes that character imo.
I've played with Japanese voices from the beginning, and played Tao for much of that.
English Tao just sounded off to me.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
BBCP:
Amane Nishiki - an effeminate dancer, not relevant really to the plot during CP, very relevant in CF
Azrael - Super powered dude, formerly locked up by sector 7, now freed
Izayoi - Tsubaki with her weapon unlocked and taking over
Bullet - Tager's former subordinate, even though that isnt said its really obvious. Pointless int he BBCP story, becomes relevant in BBCF
Once the console BBCP rolled over they added
Terumi - now not completely shackled to hazama, but still sortve is
Kagura Mutsuki - Head of the Mutsuki family and a leader in the NOL, secretly working against them. Likes women, a lot
Kokonoe - I doubt she needs an introduction
Then for CP Extend:
Lambda 11 - Returning from the dead somehow and no playable alongside Nu - 13
Celica A Mercury - Pulled by kokonoe from another timeline into one where she died protecting ragna, jin, and noel. Sister to Nine and Aunt to Kokonoe
Now with Central Fiction
Naoto Kurogane - from bloodedge experience, somehow is now in main universe
Hibiki Kohaku - Kagura's assistant
Nine - Nine was phantom all along, no surprise, now shes playable and on a power trip
Hades Izanami - leader of the library, all around evil death goddess
and with console
Es - from xblaze, somehow now in main timeline
Mai Natsume - A boy magically turned into a girl. Shes from the Remix heart and variable heart manga. Went to school with Noel/Makoto/Jin/Tsubaki
You forgot Bullet, who was added because she has a really good theme song!
I don't know what her story is.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
knew I'd forget one, sorry hot pants. Updated