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[Thaedolus]

who knows, do you know there was no ill intention from anyone handling the gun before the actor? Does the actor still have the ultimate responsability if there was?

Don't forget to wear your helmet when answering.

The fact there were incidents prior to this on set, some crew walked off over safety concerns, and the armorer was apparently only on her second job should help inform
the analysis here. It has all the hallmarks of multiple levels of incompetence going through multiple levels of safety with a tragic result.

 

[Jeeves]

who knows, do you know there was no ill intention from anyone handling the gun before the actor? Does the actor still have the ultimate responsability if there was?

Don't forget to wear your helmet when answering.

No one's talking about "ultimate responsibility". In a situation like this where multiple checks are needed by multiple parties, there is shared responsibility by everyone handling the weapon. This includes the person firing the weapon, which should go without saying.

 

[Thaedolus]

No one's talking about "ultimate responsibility".

The people wanting to singularly blame the armorer when multiple sources show there are supposed to be multiple checks/layers of safety seem to be

 

[Star-Lord]

Is it?

Yes, it is.

 

[DeepEnigma]

who knows, do you know there was no ill intention from anyone handling the gun before the actor? Does the actor still have the ultimate responsability if there was?

Don't forget to wear your helmet when answering.

You have a helmet, alright.

 

[Jeeves]

The people wanting to singularly blame the armorer when multiple sources show there are supposed to be multiple checks/layers of safety seem to be

I guess so, and then they're going on to assume that we're saying the whole thing falls on Alec's shoulders. That's not how responsibility works.

 

[Kenpachii]

Do actors even get training like at all with fake guns?

Because this is what happens when u would give a gun to me without getting any information

]

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do actors even get training like at all with fake guns?

Because this is what happens when u would give a gun to me without getting any information

]

Yes. Especially a veteran like Baldwin.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Asking this again on a new page.


This is possibly a dumb question, but bear with me please. I know how to check/clear/clean revolvers and semi-autos, but I have never actually handled blank rounds before. Never needed to. I was always taught how to handle guns with live ammo.

Is it possible for someone who may not handle guns all the time to tell the difference between a blank and a live round at glance in a revolver without removing the rounds from the cylinder?

 

[Thaedolus]

Just Google “live round vs blank.” It’s pretty obvious to me even never seeing a blank in person. One would assume that in a scenario where this is being done on a set and an actor is being familiarized with the weapon in order to perform their responsibility of doing a final check, this would be part of the training. And Baldwin has been on many sets with guns over the years. It’s hard to believe he wouldn’t have been trained appropriately and had the past experience, based on what the standard practices appear to be

 

[KrakenIPA]

Asking this again on a new page.


This is possibly a dumb question, but bear with me please. I know how to check/clear/clean revolvers and semi-autos, but I have never actually handled blank rounds before. Never needed to. I was always taught how to handle guns with live ammo.

Is it possible for someone who may not handle guns all the time to tell the difference between a blank and a live round at glance in a revolver without removing the rounds from the cylinder?

In my US Army experience with 5.56 rounds from years ago, it was the same casing, but kept far away from the live rounds.
Back then, if you didn't practice muzzle discipline, if you didn't treat every gun as if it is locked and loaded, or if you tried to play grab-ass, you paid the price in sweat and tears. Hard lessons learned so long ago, but those lessons still shape my life today.

 

[Nobody_Important]

In my US Army experience with 5.56 rounds from years ago, it was the same casing, but kept far away from the live rounds.
Back then, if you didn't practice muzzle discipline, if you didn't treat every gun as if it is locked and loaded, or if you tried to play grab-ass, you paid the price in sweat and tears. Hard lessons learned so long ago, but those lessons still shape my life today.

So the back of the blank would look the same as the back of a live round?


I'm asking because it occurred to me that since this is a western they are using revolvers most likely. And the most obvious difference between a blank and live round is the tip. But in a revolver you can't see that unless you remove the rounds and look for yourself. So I was wondering if the backs of blanks were specially marked or something.

 

[Azurro]

Were you there?

Honestly, the way you parade around her death and her family's loss as an excuse to attack people is some disgusting shit.

An excuse to attack people? What a take, that's ridiculous. My source of anger is that I can imagine that kid getting told that his mom passed away because some asshole actor and producer didn't bother to follow safety procedures who then goes around distancing himself from blame.

 

[Jaysen]

Asking this again on a new page.


This is possibly a dumb question, but bear with me please. I know how to check/clear/clean revolvers and semi-autos, but I have never actually handled blank rounds before. Never needed to. I was always taught how to handle guns with live ammo.

Is it possible for someone who may not handle guns all the time to tell the difference between a blank and a live round at glance in a revolver without removing the rounds from the cylinder?

Not only that, but you have people in this thread saying the actor is also responsible for determining if a piece of a prior bullet broke off and was lodged in the chamber, which is how Brandon Lee was killed. It’s the job of the armorer and props master to determine all of that.

 

[Halo is Back]

I'd blindly trust the gun crew. Why wouldn't I? They're the experts, any need to know info I'd expect to get from them.

And now someone is dead because "trust the experts". Alec Baldwin should have received proper training on firearm safety since he POINTED A GUN AT SOMEONE. Always assume a firearm is loaded and dangerous and he should have received the proper training on racking the weapon to check for live ammunition. This is gross negligence on multiple levels.

 

[Azurro]

Again, absolute bullshit. It is not the actors responsibility to verify firearms are working properly. The stupidity of putting that kind of responsibility into the hands of actors is hilarious.

How many times do people need to tell you that the final responsibility of a gun lies in the person using it. I know many actors are vapid dumbasses, but I'm sure they can be asked not to aim a gun and fire it at a human being, correct?

 

[Jeeves]

Not only that, but you have people in this thread saying the actor is also responsible for determining if a piece of a prior bullet broke off and was lodged in the chamber, which is how Brandon Lee was killed. It’s the job of the armorer and props master to determine all of that.

Maybe you'll understand it better if you remove the word "actor" and replace it with "person who fired the gun", because that sounds like the source of your hangup here. The responsible thing to do does not change according to the status or occupation of the people involved.

 

[Jaysen]

How many times do people need to tell you that the final responsibility of a gun lies in the person using it. I know many actors are vapid dumbasses, but I'm sure they can be asked not to aim a gun and fire it at a human being, correct?

When you hand a cold weapon to an actor and say point it at the camera, they do it.

 

[daveonezero]

I mean they should. Most in Hollywood don't know how to use them properly.

I believe this happened because the qualified armourers left over poor conditions.

So as a producer he is responsible for that and then hiring someone who wasn’t qualified.

so no matter how you spin it he is negligent.

It’s crazy to me that live ammunition would even be on the set.

It most likely wasn’t a live cartridge. It was probably a blank but debris in the barrel can still be launched at a fatal velocity.

 

[Azurro]

When you hand a cold weapon to an actor and say point it at the camera, they do it.

Like I said, some might be vapid idiots, but it is still their responsibility to NOT AIM AND SHOOT AT A PERSON, whether they are told to or not. He also hired the firearms experts and apparently had a walkout over security concerns. He is negligent and responsible of this, whether you like him in 30 Rock in that skit with Tracy Jordan or not.

 

[Keihart]

How many times do people need to tell you that the final responsibility of a gun lies in the person using it. I know many actors are vapid dumbasses, but I'm sure they can be asked not to aim a gun and fire it at a human being, correct?

In this case sounds more like he was being specifically asked to aim a gun and fire it at a human being.

 

[Azurro]

In this case sounds more like he was being specifically asked to aim a gun and fire it at a human being.

Firearms security should prevent that from happening and he still shouldn't do it if there's a person in front of him while he shoots. It's Hollywood, I'm sure they can manage to get a shot of him shooting at a camera without having human beings in front of him.

 

[Thaedolus]

When you hand a cold weapon to an actor and say point it at the camera, they do it.

You’re again ignoring the experts saying the actor is required to not just blindly do that. Why do you keep ignoring this?

 

[KrakenIPA]

So the back of the blank would look the same as the back of a live round?


I'm asking because it occurred to me that since this is a western they are using revolvers most likely. And the most obvious difference between a blank and live round is the tip. But in a revolver you can't see that unless you remove the rounds and look for yourself. So I was wondering if the backs of blanks were specially marked or something.

I have never fired a revolver, but I would assume that even if there was a designator or marking for blanks vs. live on the back of the round, it would not be detected in the moment it takes to press a trigger (unless there is red vs. green coloration or paint?).
There <has> to be a revolver expert on GAF somewhere, right?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe you'll understand it better if you remove the word "actor" and replace it with "person who fired the gun", because that sounds like the source of your hangup here. The responsible thing to do does not change according to the status or occupation of the people involved.

 

[RouteBypass]

Outsourcing your responsibility and due diligence continues to pay dividends.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Slightly Off-Topic but still related has anyone heard how this incident has affected any other projects that are underway at the moment?


I have to assume every armorer, director, prop master, and safety consultant across the industry has done a full on "Everyone stop. Let review everything and look over every single thing we have. Let's look over all our safety procedures." Etc etc.

 

[Kimahri]

An excuse to attack people? What a take, that's ridiculous. My source of anger is that I can imagine that kid getting told that his mom passed away because some asshole actor and producer didn't bother to follow safety procedures who then goes around distancing himself from blame.

Nobody is not sympathizing with that poor kid and his family. But you know jack shit about what actually happened, yet you're standing under a tree with a noose in your hand ready to lynch someone just to feel good about your own pathetic sense of righteousness, only to prove one thing; that the only asshole here right now is you.

And now someone is dead because "trust the experts". Alec Baldwin should have received proper training on firearm safety since he POINTED A GUN AT SOMEONE. Always assume a firearm is loaded and dangerous and he should have received the proper training on racking the weapon to check for live ammunition. This is gross negligence on multiple levels.

I don't think you read me right. If you don't know anything about guns, how would you know what proper training or handling is? Isn't that what the experts are for? In such a situation I would listen to the experts at hand and do what they told me, what else am I supposed to do? Pretend I know better, go on google and end up with potentially misleading information.

I can't comment on what happend. I wasn't there, I don't know, and I'll refrain from placing blame until I know whetr it belongs. Baldwin may be completely at fault here, I don't know. Details are few at this point.

 

[RoboFu]

Movie related deaths happen more often than you would think in movies.
Brandon lee for one.
There was this movie that was filmed in navada in a highly radioactive area where 90 people involved got cancer.
the twilight zone movie on the 80s 2 kids and a man got killed by a low flying helicopter.
Crazy shit

 

[Nobody_Important]

Movie related deaths more often than you would think in movies.
Brandon lee for one.
There was this movie that was filmed in navada in a highly radioactive area where 90 people involved got cancer.
the twilight zone movie on the 80s 2 kids and a man got killed by a low flying helicopter.
Crazy shit

Yeah there would be a lot of horrified people if they knew just how often and how badly people are hurt or killed in the making of their favorite TV shows and movies.


Severe burns, paralyzation, severed limbs, blindness, deafness, etc etc the list goes on and on for the kinds of things that happen on these movie sets every year.

 

[jason10mm]

Again, absolute bullshit. It is not the actors responsibility to verify firearms are working properly. The stupidity of putting that kind of responsibility into the hands of actors is hilarious.

Are you an actor? What film credits do you have and how many involved firearms?

 

[jason10mm]

This is possibly a dumb question, but bear with me please. I know how to check/clear/clean revolvers and semi-autos, but I have never actually handled blank rounds before. Never needed to. I was always taught how to handle guns with live ammo.


Is it possible for someone who may not handle guns all the time to tell the difference between a blank and a live round at glance in a revolver without removing the rounds from the cylinder?

No. From the back, unless they are specifically marked, they are virtually identical. But looking at the front, it is pretty easy to see the crimp of a blank versus the bullet of a live round (this is very obvious in the first Matrix and some other films with obvious blank brass hitting the ground). Now a downloaded squib round with a bullet or bullet like cosmetic appearance... not so much.

This is what begs the question; what was the revolvers purpose on the scene, was Alec even supposed to cock the revolver and pull the trigger, and did anyone expect it to do anything other than "click" if he did?

Knowledge of single action revolvers (that is what I am assuming he was using) and the shooting script for that day is key to answer these questions.

 

[jason10mm]

Slightly Off-Topic but still related has anyone heard how this incident has affected any other projects that are underway at the moment?


I have to assume every armorer, director, prop master, and safety consultant across the industry has done a full on "Everyone stop. Let review everything and look over every single thing we have. Let's look over all our safety procedures." Etc etc.

I saw an article that the cop show Rookie has barred hot guns from set. I've never seen it so I have no idea of often they show guns firing.

Westerns are tough. If you want the Gunsmoke effect of black powder thrn you either have to use some sort of hot gun or spend a lot on CGI. Revolvers also make it necessary to show the front of the round in the cylinder for close ups, which is what got Brandon Lee killed.

 

[Nobody_Important]

No. From the back, unless they are specifically marked, they are virtually identical. But looking at the front, it is pretty easy to see the crimp of a blank versus the bullet of a live round (this is very obvious in the first Matrix and some other films with obvious blank brass hitting the ground). Now a downloaded squib round with a bullet or bullet like cosmetic appearance... not so much.

This is what begs the question; what was the revolvers purpose on the scene, was Alec even supposed to cock the revolver and pull the trigger, and did anyone expect it to do anything other than "click" if he did?

Knowledge of single action revolvers (that is what I am assuming he was using) and the shooting script for that day is key to answer these questions.

Yeah I wanna know those answers too. Because if the blanks look identical from the back and he was handed the weapon and told it was loaded with blanks he could have checked the weapon and not been able to tell the difference. He would have had to just trust the expert in that position. Does not in any way excuse what happened, but it may help explain how it happened or why. It also makes me question even harder whether or not the prop master/armorer was even remotely qualified for the position they were in.



Because even someone like me who hates guns knows the difference between a blank and a live round when I look at one. I don't understand how someone like that could make such a colossal fuck up like that and be completely unaware.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This whole gun safety thing where there's a million checks, it gets to a point there's accountability at the experts. Why would an actor be the one? Because he's the last person to touch it?

If I got o H&R Block to get tax advice and they use their experience to fill out the form and do deductions for me and submit it. It bounces back from the government saying I'm scamming them. It's my fault? If a doctor prescribes a drug, I take it based on their knowledge and get ultra sick, it's my fault? An electrician fixes some bad wires at my house, he says its good to go, I turn it on and get zapped. Its my fault.

Sounds like gun experts are passing the buck. You can tell by the way the unions immediately said "it's not us unionized guys. It was non-union people". People get shot and killed and the first thing that comes out of their mouths are "not me".

If there's scenes requiring a gun shooting live rounds or blanks, the gun crew should fully check it right before the scene, hand it to the actor and watch. Ensuring the actor doesnt do anything stupid and the gun doesnt disappear for a few hours. If that happens, the crew has to check again in case something shady happens hidden from view.

 

[jason10mm]

Yeah I wanna know those answers too. Because if the blanks look identical from the back and he was handed the weapon and told it was loaded with blanks he could have checked the weapon and not been able to tell the difference. He would have had to just trust the expert in that position. Does not in any way excuse what happened, but it may help explain how it happened or why. It also makes me question even harder whether or not the prop master/armorer was even remotely qualified for the position they were in.



Because even someone like me who hates guns knows the difference between a blank and a live round when I look at one. I don't understand how someone like that could make such a colossal fuck up like that and be completely unaware.

Well, the story is that it was a cold gun, I. e. not even firing blanks so that is why I am curious why he even pulled the trigger.

Was it a scene where he was supposed to pretend to shoot someone, was out of ammo, or did he dry fire the weapon in a rehearsal but wasn't supposed to?

If the story is that he wasn't supposed to even fire the revolver but he DID, then he has some culpability. Maybe not jail time but certainly responsibility and a lesson for future actors.

 

[KrakenIPA]

Yeah I wanna know those answers too. Because if the blanks look identical from the back and he was handed the weapon and told it was loaded with blanks he could have checked the weapon and not been able to tell the difference. He would have had to just trust the expert in that position. Does not in any way excuse what happened, but it may help explain how it happened or why. It also makes me question even harder whether or not the prop master/armorer was even remotely qualified for the position they were in.



Because even someone like me who hates guns knows the difference between a blank and a live round when I look at one. I don't understand how someone like that could make such a colossal fuck up like that and be completely unaware.

I hate all of the situations that place guns into the hands of someone that is not properly trained with firearms, but I don't hate guns.

Slightly Off-Topic but still related has anyone heard how this incident has affected any other projects that are underway at the moment?


I have to assume every armorer, director, prop master, and safety consultant across the industry has done a full on "Everyone stop. Let review everything and look over every single thing we have. Let's look over all our safety procedures." Etc etc.

This is Off-Topic but on point. I am sure protocols have been revisited in the last 36 hours, and little solace to those affected, it may have saved many more lives.

Yeah there would be a lot of horrified people if they knew just how often and how badly people are hurt or killed in the making of their favorite TV shows and movies.


Severe burns, paralyzation, severed limbs, blindness, deafness, etc etc the list goes on and on for the kinds of things that happen on these movie sets every year.

Some viewers are well aware of the sacrifice that actors and directors make to conceptualize a vision, and the harm it may bring to any involved.

Edit- wording

 

[highrider]

Neither does he. He believes in things and shares those beliefs. Just like you do and most everyone else does. Difference is he has an audience of millions.

Yes he does. And believe it or not I also have a very large audience. I believe in things and don’t feel the need to attack others publicly when they don’t agree, so there’s where I differ from Alec Baldwin. I say again, fuck dude.

 

[highrider]

Bullshit. The last line of defense is never the actor. That’s idiotic. When you hand an actor and extras weapons and announce that they’re cold, the expectation isn’t that the actor is going to do a proper check on the guns. Like everyone else, they’re going to assume it’s actually cold and that the armorer and prop master did their jobs. Expecting actors and extras to be able to do what an armorer does for the many different types of guns that are used is utterly ridiculous and no lower budget production would ever waste time and money on teaching it to them.

You’ve confirmed you aren’t arguing in good faith here. This is a guy flailing just to remain argumentative. What I don’t understand the defense of Alec Baldwin, a known dickhead for many years.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Bullshit. The last line of defense is never the actor. That’s idiotic. When you hand an actor and extras weapons and announce that they’re cold, the expectation isn’t that the actor is going to do a proper check on the guns. Like everyone else, they’re going to assume it’s actually cold and that the armorer and prop master did their jobs. Expecting actors and extras to be able to do what an armorer does for the many different types of guns that are used is utterly ridiculous and no lower budget production would ever waste time and money on teaching it to them.

I agree.

Actors arent weapons experts. If an actor checks the gun, how the hell is he or she going to know looking at it whether it's good to go or something looks wrong in the cylinder?

It seems guns are loaded with live ammo/blanks of some kind (it's not like cap guns for kids). How is an actor going to know looking inside it if it's properly loaded or some shady guy loaded in an armor piercing bullet 20 minutes ago when nobody was looking?

Gun experts liability.

As long as Baldwin used the gun properly as directed (ie. gun master says dont shoot it 2 ft from someones face), then you cant blame Baldwin. If a wrong kind of round or blank shot out of it, thats the gun master's fault for loading in the wrong one, or putting one in there when it should be empty.

If a mechnic checks and fixes a car and the driver drives it home as normal, and the engine starts smoking. You dont blame the driver. You cant expect him to tell the mechanic to move over while he does a double check under the hood doubting the mechanic before driving it home.

 

[DapperSloth]

So as a producer he is responsible for that and then hiring someone who wasn’t qualified.

so no matter how you spin it he is negligent.

A producer can also mean that you have backed the film by giving yourself less salary and put it in the film or by other means.

"Many times an actor receives a producer credit for helping to put a film together, sometimes by cutting their usual rates or helping find the money."

So no, he is not "negligent" lol.

Wrong.

My stance has always been the very baseline about firearms safely 101. All in which WERE BACKED UP BY ACTUAL INDUSTRY EXPERTS IN HOLLYWOOD AND BALDWIN’S OWN STATEMENT OF “who handed me a hot gun” WHERE HE FAILED TO PRACTICE THE BASELINE SAFETY 101 AND NOT CHECK IT HIMSELF AND NOT POINT IT DIRECTLY AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

I brought the receipts, those pretending not to have bias are welcome to bring yours.

I’ll wait.

Man what the fuck are you on about? You really think an actor should check every god damn thing handed to them? You know that there are people working on that shit (like a armorer expert or firearms expert) to deal with that?

Official Warrant Reveals Alec Baldwin Was Unknowingly Handed A Weapon With Live Rounds On The Set Of Rust

"While Baldwin has been the face of this tragedy, it's not the actor's responsibility to know if they have been handed a "hot gun" on set. There are typically many stages of inspection each firearm has to go through before it reaches an actor's hands whenever any blank is to be fired in a scene."

There are your receipts.

Jesus some of you people in this thread, maybe you think he is a fucking dickhead, but come the fuck on, pulling the blame on the actor when it was an accident and the actor is NOWHERE to be blamed, give that to the people that did not check the gun before giving it to him. It is a tragic situation no doubt.

 

[Thaedolus]

You’ve confirmed you aren’t arguing in good faith here. This is a guy flailing just to remain argumentative. What I don’t understand the defense of Alec Baldwin, a known dickhead for many years.

It doesn’t matter if Baldwin is a dickhead or what his stance is on gun control. The question is whether or not he was supposed to perform a verification function on the set and whether or not he did that.

If he was just doing what he was instructed and there was no expectation of him to verify he had a safe prop, ok. There’s a lot of reason to believe that’s not the case, though. And that’s what so obnoxious about the continued stance people are taking about this all being on the armorer. There’s a lot of reason to think he was supposed to check too, based on all the overviews of safety protocols and experts talking about standard practices.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A producer can also mean that you have backed the film by giving yourself less salary and put it in the film or by other means.

"Many times an actor receives a producer credit for helping to put a film together, sometimes by cutting their usual rates or helping find the money."

So no, he is not "negligent" lol.



Man what the fuck are you on about? You really think an actor should check every god damn thing handed to them? You know that there are people working on that shit (like a armorer expert or firearms expert) to deal with that?

Official Warrant Reveals Alec Baldwin Was Unknowingly Handed A Weapon With Live Rounds On The Set Of Rust

"While Baldwin has been the face of this tragedy, it's not the actor's responsibility to know if they have been handed a "hot gun" on set. There are typically many stages of inspection each firearm has to go through before it reaches an actor's hands whenever any blank is to be fired in a scene."

There are your receipts.

Jesus some of you people in this thread, maybe you think he is a fucking dickhead, but come the fuck on, pulling the blame on the actor when it was an accident and the actor is NOWHERE to be blamed, give that to the people that did not check the gun before giving it to him. It is a tragic situation no doubt.

Exactly.

Anyone here shot guns in Vegas? You know, that touristy shit where you pay $200 to shoot some guns for 90 seconds?

I know nothing about guns. That's the only time I've shot a gun. For those who dont know how it works, you pick a gun package for $200 and each person gets paired up with a big dude who knows guns, tell you how to shoot, loads the magazine for you, and if you're a psycho, he's also armed. Each person is locked in their own shooting range room and he'll blast you first if you go nuts. And if you shoot him first, the other giant gun dudes will gun you down anyway.

He knows all about the guns, loads it for you and give you pointers about recoil, dont point it as someone (keep it aimed low to the ground) and when done with that gun, place it on the counter and he'll give you the next gun.

It would be pretty stupid if after he hands me a gun, for me to tell him to get out of the way, open it, check it, and validate if he did it right.

If I shoot the gun after he says it's good to go trying to shoot a target and the gun explodes in our faces (I don't know why but sometimes you see videos of someone shooting an assault rifle and it's literally breaks apart some reason), how can that be my fault?

 

[///PATRIOT]

Exactly.

Anyone here shot guns in Vegas? You know, that touristy shit where you pay $200 to shoot some guns for 90 seconds?

I know nothing about guns. That's the only time I've shot a gun. For those who dont know how it works, you pick a gun package for $200 and each person gets paired up with a big dude who knows guns, tell you how to shoot, loads the magazine for you, and if you're a psycho, he's also armed. Each person is locked in their own shooting range room and he'll blast you first if you go nuts. And if you shoot him first, the other giant gun dudes will gun you down anyway.

He knows all about the guns, loads it for you and give you pointers about recoil, dont point it as someone (keep it aimed low to the ground) and when done with that gun, place it on the counter and he'll give you the next gun.

It would be pretty stupid if after he hands me a gun, for me to tell him to get out of the way, open it, check it, and validate if he did it right.

If I shoot the gun after he says it's good to go trying to shoot a target and the gun explodes in our faces (I don't know why but sometimes you see videos of someone shooting an assault rifle and it's literally breaks apart some reason), how can that be my fault?

You're very naïve on how the adult world works if you think you're out of the hook if you'd fucked up in a gun range. You're liable every time you pick up gun(this is not an opinion), and yes prop guns are guns.

It would be pretty stupid if after he hands me a gun, for me to tell him to get out of the way, open it, check it, and validate if he did it right.

According to industry protocols, the actor must witness how the expert check out and clear the prop gun. Why do you guys keep ignoring this?

 

[Jaysen]

Yes he does. And believe it or not I also have a very large audience. I believe in things and don’t feel the need to attack others publicly when they don’t agree, so there’s where I differ from Alec Baldwin. I say again, fuck dude.

Lol

 

[DapperSloth]

Exactly.

Anyone here shot guns in Vegas? You know, that touristy shit where you pay $200 to shoot some guns for 90 seconds?

I know nothing about guns. That's the only time I've shot a gun. For those who dont know how it works, you pick a gun package for $200 and each person gets paired up with a big dude who knows guns, tell you how to shoot, loads the magazine for you, and if you're a psycho, he's also armed. Each person is locked in their own shooting range room and he'll blast you first if you go nuts. And if you shoot him first, the other giant gun dudes will gun you down anyway.

He knows all about the guns, loads it for you and give you pointers about recoil, dont point it as someone (keep it aimed low to the ground) and when done with that gun, place it on the counter and he'll give you the next gun.

It would be pretty stupid if after he hands me a gun, for me to tell him to get out of the way, open it, check it, and validate if he did it right.

If I shoot the gun after he says it's good to go trying to shoot a target and the gun explodes in our faces (I don't know why but sometimes you see videos of someone shooting an assault rifle and it's literally breaks apart some reason), how can that be my fault?

You are exactly right.

Look I don't know what to tell you, it's really straightforward, but some people are really REALLY keen on that you check shit yourself even though you trust your fellow crew to do their job. Jesus, just reading some of the replies is giving me an ulcer. It's like I'm reading posts on Facebook or Twitter and not the good kind. I am sorry, to me that is just so... heartless, where has the empathy gone in people? I really feel sorry for Alec, the man cried giving his statement/interrogation with the police, I can just imagine the confusion and guilt of accidently killing another person even though you know it was not your fault. And to then read people in here actually putting the blame (either directly or indirectly with your replies) on the actor is horrible.

You're very naive on how the adult world works if you think you're out of the hook if you'd fucked up in a gun range.

Tell us how the world works in which a tourist is responsible for a fuck up when the person giving the gun to the tourist is the expert? If you going on a flight, are you going outside and checking so the fuel is good, the tail rudders are good and the tires are OK before flying?

If he was just doing what he was instructed and there was no expectation of him to verify he had a safe prop, ok. There’s a lot of reason to believe that’s not the case, though.

Again,

Official Warrant Reveals Alec Baldwin Was Unknowingly Handed A Weapon With Live Rounds On The Set Of Rust

"While Baldwin has been the face of this tragedy, it's not the actor's responsibility to know if they have been handed a "hot gun" on set. There are typically many stages of inspection each firearm has to go through before it reaches an actor's hands whenever any blank is to be fired in a scene."

 

[jason10mm]

Exactly.

Anyone here shot guns in Vegas? You know, that touristy shit where you pay $200 to shoot some guns for 90 seconds?

I know nothing about guns. That's the only time I've shot a gun. For those who dont know how it works, you pick a gun package for $200 and each person gets paired up with a big dude who knows guns, tell you how to shoot, loads the magazine for you, and if you're a psycho, he's also armed. Each person is locked in their own shooting range room and he'll blast you first if you go nuts. And if you shoot him first, the other giant gun dudes will gun you down anyway.

He knows all about the guns, loads it for you and give you pointers about recoil, dont point it as someone (keep it aimed low to the ground) and when done with that gun, place it on the counter and he'll give you the next gun.

It would be pretty stupid if after he hands me a gun, for me to tell him to get out of the way, open it, check it, and validate if he did it right.

If I shoot the gun after he says it's good to go trying to shoot a target and the gun explodes in our faces (I don't know why but sometimes you see videos of someone shooting an assault rifle and it's literally breaks apart some reason), how can that be my fault?

If the revolver had blown up in alecs hand and killed him, you would have a point.

But if he aimed at a person and pulled the trigger, then there is some culpability on his part and a responsibility that he KNEW it was safe, or as producer, mitigated the risk to the folks down range as much as possible.

Which he might ha e done, we don't have all the details yet.

It's also possible that he drew and fired while standing near the film crew but wasn't in proper position and aiming in a safe direction, thus hitting Ms. Hutchens. That's on him even if he thought it was a cold gun, because that is a standing rule across all filming.

 

[Dr Bass]

Exactly.

Anyone here shot guns in Vegas? You know, that touristy shit where you pay $200 to shoot some guns for 90 seconds?

I know nothing about guns. That's the only time I've shot a gun. For those who dont know how it works, you pick a gun package for $200 and each person gets paired up with a big dude who knows guns, tell you how to shoot, loads the magazine for you, and if you're a psycho, he's also armed. Each person is locked in their own shooting range room and he'll blast you first if you go nuts. And if you shoot him first, the other giant gun dudes will gun you down anyway.

He knows all about the guns, loads it for you and give you pointers about recoil, dont point it as someone (keep it aimed low to the ground) and when done with that gun, place it on the counter and he'll give you the next gun.

It would be pretty stupid if after he hands me a gun, for me to tell him to get out of the way, open it, check it, and validate if he did it right.

If I shoot the gun after he says it's good to go trying to shoot a target and the gun explodes in our faces (I don't know why but sometimes you see videos of someone shooting an assault rifle and it's literally breaks apart some reason), how can that be my fault?

Ridiculous analogy. You know that right? This can’t possibly be serious.

You’re comparing someone telling you they are handing you a loaded gun vs someone being told they are being given a “safe” gun.

Get serious.

I encourage any single person saying Baldwin had zero responsibility here to go read basic level gun safety protocols you need to know to handle any sort of gun. Notice I said handle.

You’re just showing your complete ignorance to suggest anything different. I’m not saying the guy is “guilty” of anything, nor do I care about the guy at all one way or another. But this is basic stuff and simply the reality of it all.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is possibly a dumb question, but bear with me please. I know how to check/clear/clean revolvers and semi-autos, but I have never actually handled blank rounds before. Never needed to. I was always taught how to handle guns with live ammo.


Is it possible for someone who may not handle guns all the time to tell the difference between a blank and a live round at glance in a revolver without removing the rounds from the cylinder?

I know I wouldnt. Can you tell by looking at the back of these blanks whether it's real or not?

Blank Gun Ammunition For 9mm PAK Semi-Auto and Auto Blank Firing Guns - 50 pack

Your Premier Source for Blank Guns, Replica Guns, Non-Firing Guns, Blank Ammo, Military, Old West, Flintlocks, Civil War, Denix, Medieval, & Colonial Guns at Great Prices.

collectorsarmoury.com

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Ridiculous analogy. You know that right? This can’t possibly be serious.

You’re comparing someone telling you they are handing you a loaded gun vs someone being told they are being given a “safe” gun.

Get serious.

I encourage any single person saying Baldwin had zero responsibility here to go read basic level gun safety protocols you need to know to handle any sort of gun. Notice I said handle.

You’re just showing your complete ignorance to suggest anything different. I’m not saying the guy is “guilty” of anything, nor do I care about the guy at all one way or another. But this is basic stuff and simply the reality of it all.

How is it ridiculous?

There's a million movies with people shooting at each other with pistols, machine guns, you name it. Or the typical scene where a guy puts a pistol to someone's head to freak them out with a click and nothing happens. Or Arnie blasting people with a machine gun from 10 ft away.

So the expectation is before every shoot out scene, the actors have to open it up to verify the ammo in it? Thats what gun experts should be for. They do the safety checks.

How do you expect a typical actor or actress opening up a gun to know whether or not what's loaded in it is safe or not?